Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

user2011

3rd or 4th I'll take it begrudgingly but we should be contending the title and it hurts too see us not, from a long way off.

Cantona's Collars

Epic tackle which led to Wellbeck winning the pen seconds later.

As usual Evra is out of position.

larchielads

Danye wrote: »

Excellent post and agree with all that your saying.

I've been calling for Kagawa to start in CM albeit slightly more advanced and people in this forum shot it down saying he "can't play there".

would like to see him play in a 3 man midfield with fellaini/jones sittin infront of the back four and carrick to supply him the ball and keep things tickin over in the midfield

DM_7

You can't play Kagawa in a midfield two but slightly more advanced. Either he is playing cm or no 10, look at Modric who converted to a cm but he didn't play a slightly advanced role to do it.

You could play Kagawa in a midfield two and waste what he is good at. Sure while we are at it stick Rooney in beside him.

But then again maybe Moyes should just buy an actual midfield player.

magnumbud

user2011 wrote: »

3rd or 4th I'll take it begrudgingly but we should be contending the title and it hurts too see us not, from a long way off.

i have full faith we will at least get 1 of them. in terms of the title the way this season is going you just cant tell. city and chelsea both can show great form and then turn around and lose to "lower" teams. it very important if we are to stand any chance to go on a winning streak between now and january. during this time liverpool, chelsea and arsenal are all playing each other in some order so theres bound to be dropped points. if we dont take advantage though thats it

homerjay2005

magnumbud wrote: »

i have full faith we will at least get 1 of them. in terms of the title the way this season is going you just cant tell. city and chelsea both can show great form and then turn around and lose to "lower" teams. it very important if we are to stand any chance to go on a winning streak between now and january. during this time liverpool, chelsea and arsenal are all playing each other in some order so theres bound to be dropped points. if we dont take advantage though thats it

unless we have a drastic improvement in form, we are in a fight for 4th. Arsenal, City and Chelsea are so much better than us, its not even funny at this stage.

Can we improve? of course we can, but we are running out of time to do so, it needs to start this week and we need full points in December.

at the moment, its us, Spurs and Liverpool for 4th spot, with the other 3 battling it out for the title.

we have never been this low in the premierleague era in December and the last time we were outside the top 7 in December was in 1989 - so its our worst start in 24 years. the thing about that is, we were not PL champions back then with a team full of multiple league winners. Moyes needs to realise where he is.

bullvine

I'll try and be optimistic, we've really had a very hard run of fixtures, with the exception of the West Brom result, the other results are not one bit surprising considering how tough some of the away fixtures have been. We've a good run of fixtures now coming up, its make or break for Moyes and the team.

I felt yesterday Spurs were there for the taking and I just can't understand why Moyes felt the need to include Welbeck in the first 11 just so as to protect Evra. Too much respect to them.

kryogen

Did Welbeck win a penalty yesterday?

homerjay2005

kryogen wrote: »

Did Welbeck win a penalty yesterday?

yep, down to brilliant play by Vidic, a counter attack and an amazing ball by Rooney.

if Nani played like Welbeck did yesterday, he would be lynched. not sure why Welbeck was even on the pitch, he was simply shocking. Spurs were there for the taking yesterday and by playing the likes of Welbeck, we missed a chance....

in saying that though, drawing 2-2 with the likes of Spurs away in the context of an entire season, is not a bad result.

Cantona's Collars

bullvine wrote: »

I felt yesterday Spurs were there for the taking and I just can't understand why Moyes felt the need to include Welbeck in the first 11 just so as to protect Evra. Too much respect to them.

The 2 Spurs full backs were there for the taking yesterday but we rarely took advantage,Wellbeck had acres of space but most of the time he fecked things up or just hadn't the positional sense to use the space.
Valencia ran past Verthongen at one point as if he wasn't there but then decided to stop and allowed a cross to be blocked,he repeated this procedure time & again.The best we can hope out of him is that he wins a few corners by smashing the ball against a defenders shins.
Why play with wingers when they are so out of form or not actually wingers?
Our midfield is a shower of sh1te,I don't think Carrick is the solution,he can pass the ball to Cleverley/Fellaini all day but nothing will be created,just look at how many times this season that Carrick has had to simply bypass whoever partners him in midfield & play hail Mary balls diagonally.
It's a damning indictment on our Midfield when our striker ends up creating more from there than the guys who are meant to.

bullvine

Valencia must have got by the full back around 5 times in the first half and then put in a shocking ball.

homerjay2005

interesting, yet damning stat -

Adam Crafton ‏@AdamCrafton_ 7m
#mufc started four PL games without RVP this season. Not won one. Dropped ten points. Lost at City, Lost v WBA, draws at Cardiff and Spurs.

Giggsy11

bullvine wrote: »

Valencia must have got by the full back around 5 times in the first half and then put in a shocking ball.

Yeah, yesterday he was decent with the ball beating fullbacks few times but then everytime made a poor cross.

Also against 4 or 5 players we will have 1 player in the box most of the times which is very hard for any winger to find them. Not sure why we are not attacking in numbers, I mean in the box when full backs or wingers are crossing the ball.

IamtheWalrus

Are Utd now at Liverpool's level? :eek:

Cantona's Collars

homerjay2005 wrote: »

interesting, yet damning stat -

Remember the days when the goals were spread through the team,we didn't depend on one or two players solely to win games for us?

Speaking of goals,rumours this morning that Spurs are to bid for Guiseppi Rossi.

RGDATA!

homerjay2005 wrote: »

I said i would give my first judgement of Moyes after the Newcastle game and i will wait until then, but unless we get 6 points this week, it wont be a good one. if we are picking up 6 points there it should take us 4th, but lets see.

At the moment, if we look at the stats so far, its pretty poor reading for Moyes, its actually worst than anybody expected.

8th place, 17 points dropped and 8 points down from last season after 13 games - if this was said to people last May, would this have been accepted? i think even the most biased of fans would admit that this is simply shocking. we have also scored 10 goals less.

We have taken 6 points off teams in the top 10 and 13 points off the bottom 5 teams. any half decent team and we struggle - this is Everton form and not the form of Manchester United and, the real sad thing is that Everton seem to be flourishing so far since Moyes left.

The real worrying aspect is this however - 10 points less from corresponding 13 fixtures last season(replacing Wigan with Cardiff and QPR with Palace). this bucks the "oh but our fixtures have been harder" nonsense. there can be no more excuses, 1/3 of the season is gone and the team that was top this time last year, is now 7 places down and playing muck.

huge week for us, anything less than 6 points here and we are facing into the Christmas period in really bad shape, Moyes needs to sort this out and quickly as at the moment, we do not deserve even to be considered for 4th place. getting the players we need in the January window is going to be impossible.

not knocking your opinion, but if this is your idea of withholding your judgement

ericzeking

Thought Welbeck did ok yesterday myself, I'm not a big fan of his but he certainly wasn't the reason we didn't get the desired result yesterday.

What is troubling me is the softness of some of the goals we are giving away which are costing us results. Spurs weren't much of a threat yesterday yet we gifted them that goal at the free kick. Against Cardiff, their smallest player scores a header after being abandoned by his man. Against WBA we let a lad walz through and score. The Southampton goal was scrappy and poor defending.

We're not playing well and certainly relative to a United team at full gas or say Barca, Bayern or even City who we all compare United to, we are not playing well, but we are still the better of the two teams in almost every game yet lapses in concentration and poor decision making are costing us valuble points.
For many seasons we wouldn't be great in the early part of the year but equally we wouldn't be giving away such soft goals, we would be winning playing badly like any Championship contending side.

The galling thing about this is we're actually not giving up alot of chances, we look solid yet then give away a soft goal which costs us dearly. We are very close to that 'winning playing badly' form if fellas could just up the concentration levels. If we could do that we would have the solidity as a base and the creative forward play would come, though we do need a new CM.

I think this is down to the change in manager in combination with actually winning the league last year. Lots of people, who are against Moyes will say "Ya but he took over a title winning side"...winning the title is one thing but retaining it is even more difficult. United lost the title on goal difference the year before then there was this all out assault on the title to right a wrong, and we won it in style, SAF retired...there must have been some sense of closure in the dressing room. Complacency and a major lull was inevitable.

David Moyes is then tasked with trying to get these players up for it again, it's a very tough job he has on his hands. I believe in his ability to do it, I think he will need a window or 2 to freshen up the squad though and a forward thinking midfielder who is clued in to what the likes of Rooney and Kagawa are trying to do is a must.

Julez

bullvine wrote: »

I'll try and be optimistic, we've really had a very hard run of fixtures, with the exception of the West Brom result, the other results are not one bit surprising considering how tough some of the away fixtures have been. We've a good run of fixtures now coming up, its make or break for Moyes and the team.

I felt yesterday Spurs were there for the taking and I just can't understand why Moyes felt the need to include Welbeck in the first 11 just so as to protect Evra. Too much respect to them.

How often can we keep saying this though? We are also almost half way through the season at this stage and played everyone at least once, so the only advantage is we've probably played more tough away games at this stage than other teams.

Backstreet Moyes

Rafael is just a huge loss we have nothing going down the right. Valencia is getting himself into decent positions but his delivery is horrible. Everytime he gets space he hits it as hard as he can along the ground and the first defender just blocks it with his foot. Literally everytime he does it how can a winger be so poor at crossing.

On Cleverley if he wasn't English or didn't come up through the academy he would be nowhere near the club. He would be a decent player for a team in the bottom half of the league. His awareness is awful he gets the ball looks ahead and gets tackled from behind it's terrible. The way he got turned for Sandro's goal was shocking also he is just a very average player.

Rooney dear lord imagine if he actually went last summer we would be in some trouble. The ball he played to win the penalty was brilliant if it was Kagawa we would be creaming ourselves looking at gifs. Again who were these people saying he is not creative madness.

I actually think this season just goes to show how good Ferguson was getting the best out of so many average players. I really think Moyes didn't realise how average some of the players were and he messed up in the summer. I would give Moyes another season with a chance to build his own squad before i get rid of him but getting top 4 is essential. Chelsea and City have so much more quality it's unreal just looking at Chelsea yesterday if they get a world class striker they will be hard to catch.

Mata Oscar Hazard will offer some service to a striker. Look at that compared to United yesterday Wellbeck Kagawa Valencia that's some massive difference in quality their. The team needs massive investment or our days challenging for titles is over no matter who the manager is. I don't think many managers could have us competing for the title this season.

onemorechance

Nuts102 wrote: »

Rafael is just a huge loss ...

When is he due back?

gosplan

As a non Utd fan, I'd say people are too focused on the bad results given how early it is in Moyes reign.

I mean, there was always going to be a huge drop off after Fergie left and it was only ever going to come at the beginning.

I mean 8 points down from last season is as expected, no?

homerjay2005

anybody know much about this lad- @BFairthorne?

have a look at his timeline, he says Baines pretty much a done deal in January added to two Spanish based players being worked on.

is he reliable and who do ye think those two players are? assume Herrera is one.

my expectations are poor for January, but if we can stay within 5-6 points of the top and have semi final of League Cup, along with qualification in the CL already done, then it wont look so bad and we may have a chance to get a good run at things.

Backstreet Moyes

gosplan wrote: »

As a non Utd fan, I'd say people are too focused on the bad results given how early it is in Moyes reign.

I mean, there was always going to be a huge drop off after Fergie left and it was only ever going to come at the beginning.

I mean 8 points down from last season is as expected, no?

I think people are more concerned with how the performances have not improved. I think people need to open their eyes about how poor the starting 11 is. Fergie left a very good squad but the first 11 is way inferior to Chelsea and City. I think Moyes needs to bring in his own signings before we can see how he wants us to play. I would be happy with 3rd or 4th a good cup run and a good run in Europe. Then give Moyes the chance to bring in some quality players.

Lord TSC

gosplan wrote: »

I mean 8 points down from last season is as expected, no?

It's not just the points, and that's the problem when it comes to non-United fans commenting on the situation. It's not just the results. It's the preformances, the tactics, the transfer window...it's a combination of things.

Personally, I could take the table position and the points total if I felt we were making progress with fresh ideas and exciting tactics. I'd take a blip in the league if I felt Moyes was showing signs of learning from mistakes. But I don't feel he is; I feel week in, week out it's mistakes that might not come good in time.

Cantona's Collars

gosplan wrote: »

As a non Utd fan, I'd say people are too focused on the bad results given how early it is in Moyes reign.

I mean, there was always going to be a huge drop off after Fergie left and it was only ever going to come at the beginning.

I mean 8 points down from last season is as expected, no?

It's not just the results,it's just how disjointed & stilted our play is.Too many average players that Fergie somehow managed to win a league with.Moyes knows what needs to be done & I feel he'll act upon it by clearing out the likes of Anderson etc.

Moyes got what we'd perceive as average enough players to do a good job at Everton,I think there's a mentality with some of the players at United that they think they're better than they actually are and aren't putting in the effort (looking at you Cleverley).

Backstreet Moyes

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

It's not just the points, and that's the problem when it comes to non-United fans commenting on the situation. It's not just the results. It's the preformances, the tactics, the transfer window...it's a combination of things.

Personally, I could take the table position and the points total if I felt we were making progress with fresh ideas and exciting tactics. I'd take a blip in the league if I felt Moyes was showing signs of learning from mistakes. But I don't feel he is; I feel week in, week out it's mistakes that might not come good in time.

If we are honest it's the same football we watched the last few years under Fergie with similar tactics. But Fergie was grinding out results that's Moyes can't seem to so far.

homerjay2005

gosplan wrote: »

I mean 8 points down from last season is as expected, no?

well yes and no...

i think the realistic supporters feared/expected this would happen, but this was down to the fact that it was Moyes who got the job, rather than Ferguson leaving.

had Jose, Ancellotti or a genuine successful, world class manager got the job, it is my strong belief that this team (which would have seen proper signings during the summer) would be top of the league right now.

Regardless of what people say or deny, part of the big problems we had during the summer were down to the fact that Moyes was the manager and was not an attractive draw for top class players especially with Fergie just gone. we seem to have this idealistic view that players want to play for the club based on the name, but this is not true and the summer proved that. in 3 months, we failed to sign one world class player despite us being almost record breaking champions - that is telling and people need to accept this.

Moyes may turn out successful in the long term, but there is no reason why this impact couldnt have been made immediately, with a different manager. lets not forget, Fergie made alot of mistakes, yet he was still so successful. i thought that when Fergie went, we would get it right as we had years and years to plan for this, but it looks like so far we have made a horrible mess with it.

magnumbud

gosplan wrote: »

As a non Utd fan, I'd say people are too focused on the bad results given how early it is in Moyes reign.

I mean, there was always going to be a huge drop off after Fergie left and it was only ever going to come at the beginning.

I mean 8 points down from last season is as expected, no?

being without 4 of our best players from last year for differing amounts of time has not helped either. RVP, Carrick, Rafael and Vidic were key to us last year. also 12 months ago i think we were playing as poorly as we have been this year but RVPs goals won us games we truly did not deserve to win.

if we can get the 4 of them all back playing for an extended period and bring in the right CM in january we should be fine after xmas(hopefully ).

like on paper city have a miles better squad but they did last year too. they are just not consistent against lower teams. chelsea are definitely not the team they were when jose was there last and arsenal i just cannot believe they will just run away with it. could be proven wrong but i can see them having a sticky period and i just dont think they have the experience to deal with it when they do(again could be proven wrong). chelsea were in a similar position 3 or 4 years ago flying ahead in the league until december and then just fell apart.

i'm not convinced we will do it but i also dont view it as unimaginable to say we can do it. people keep harping on about it being our worst start in 24 years and its horrible but considering how bad it was the fact that the teams have not taken full advantage of it is the hope i cling to. this crop of teams at the top has to be one of the worst for a long time can easily see this year the title winners having the lowest points tally in history.

dream brother

Bring back Paul Scholes ;-)

http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/video-paul-scholes-scores-with-an-unbelievable-lob-in-over-35s-astroturf-game/

kryogen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

yep,t.

Oh good, so he did contribute to at least one thing positive. That's nice to know

Timmyctc

zerks wrote: »

Epic tackle which led to Wellbeck winning the pen seconds later.

As usual Evra is out of position.

Can't get over how good of a tackle this is. He'll be sorely missed when he retires

onemorechance

homerjay2005 wrote: »

.

..had Jose, Ancellotti or a genuine successful, world class manager got the job, it is my strong belief that this team (which would have seen proper signings during the summer) would be top of the league right now.

Regardless of what people say or deny, part of the big problems we had during the summer were down to the fact that Moyes was the manager and was not an attractive draw for top class players especially with Fergie just gone. ...

Lord TSC

I dont get this "Our manager wasn't attractive option" when....

1. A good few players over the summer seemed to sign for teams with no manager.
2. Jose also failed to address the biggest weakpoint of the team he joined.
3. The number of world class players we did sign under Fergie in the last ten years can probably be counted on one hand.

Timmyctc

homerjay2005 wrote: »

well yes and no...

i think the realistic supporters feared/expected this would happen, but this was down to the fact that it was Moyes who got the job, rather than Ferguson leaving.

Theres absolutely nothing unrealistic about suggesting a manager might hit the ground running, or even just make the transition smoother than has happened.

Moyes obviously hasn't done that although he's been hampered by our two/three best players from last year being injured, he still should be doing better in the league. He's certainly shown in Europe we're as good as last year.

Lesser managers have made more of lesser clubs presently and in the past. So its not unrealistic in the slightest to suggest Moyes could and should have done better in the league up till now. But in saying that, then you wouldn't get to post condescendingly to the rest of us, so it suits you down to the ground I'd say.

Timmyctc

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I dont get this "Our manager wasn't attractive option" when....

1. A good few players over the summer seemed to sign for teams with no manager.
2. Jose also failed to address the biggest weakpoint of the team he joined.
3. The number of world class players we did sign under Fergie in the last ten years can probably be counted on one hand.

Sure Ancellotti is Ugly as Sin and still signs players :pac:





"I'll get me coat"

homerjay2005

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I dont get this "Our manager wasn't attractive option" when....

1. A good few players over the summer seemed to sign for teams with no manager.

am pretty sure, all of the manager appointments you speak about were nailed on, well in advance of them being officially announced so this point is not relevent.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

2. Jose also failed to address the biggest weakpoint of the team he joined.

which is what? i dont see many weak points in the Chelsea team that stand out like ours. they are well stocked in all areas but the big mistake he made was sending out Lukaku on loan - they could do with him, but they still have 3 strikers two of which who have signed in the past 11 months.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

3. The number of world class players we did sign under Fergie in the last ten years can probably be counted on one hand.

again not relevent, Fergie went normally for players from lesser clubs. right now, we have too many of them and it was about time we signed world class players. all this team needed was two players that would go straight into the first 11 and we would have been ok.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I dont get this "Our manager wasn't attractive option" when....

i know you dont and several others wont either - its called denial. and remember i said it was only a part of the reason, there are several others such as an inept CE, poor planning/scouting and lack of ambition to pay big money, for the correct players as well as other factors such as we may have went after players who just were not willing to play for us or went for them too late.

Backstreet Moyes

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I dont get this "Our manager wasn't attractive option" when....

1. A good few players over the summer seemed to sign for teams with no manager.
2. Jose also failed to address the biggest weakpoint of the team he joined.
3. The number of world class players we did sign under Fergie in the last ten years can probably be counted on one hand.

Moyes has very little to do with attracting world class players it's the city. If we were based in London, Paris, Madrid, Munich, Rome it would be much easier to attract big signings.

gosplan

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

It's not just the points, and that's the problem when it comes to non-United fans commenting on the situation. It's not just the results. It's the preformances, the tactics, the transfer window...it's a combination of things.

Personally, I could take the table position and the points total if I felt we were making progress with fresh ideas and exciting tactics. I'd take a blip in the league if I felt Moyes was showing signs of learning from mistakes. But I don't feel he is; I feel week in, week out it's mistakes that might not come good in time.

Yeah but surely those are the things that result in dropping points.

How else was it going to happen?

Mitch Connor

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah but surely those are the things that result in dropping points.

How else was it going to happen?

No - we could be dropping points because of a big shift in how the team is set up and them not being up to speed with the new ideas and tactics.

The team set up is broadly the same as the last number of years, we are just playing crap.

As said, if we were dropping points because of a transition from one style to another, or new players, fine. But the fact we aren't transitioning in any meaningful way on the pitch makes the current position/plight harder to take.

homerjay2005

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah but surely those are the things that result in dropping points.

How else was it going to happen?

well no, City for example are dropping points, but they are playing really well overall and perhaps should be 10+ points ahead of us at the moment.

however, as poor and all as we are playing, there are some positives -

• CL qualification done.
• Great chance of getting to league cup semi final.
• The gap in the table is manageable and the other teams apart from Arsenal and maybe Chelsea, have not yet capatilised on it.
• 2 home games to come this week, with 7 winnable games coming up. 19-21 points there and we will be in very solid position by the 2nd of January.
• there maybe a slim chance that we will strengthen in January.
• RVP, Rafael, Carrick all to come back from Injury pretty soon and in time for busy period hopefully.
• 12 games unbeaten.
• Rooney on form.
• playing well in europe.

Donerkebab

homerjay2005 wrote: »

anybody know much about this lad- @BFairthorne?

have a look at his timeline, he says Baines pretty much a done deal in January added to two Spanish based players being worked on.

is he reliable and who do ye think those two players are? assume Herrera is one.

my expectations are poor for January, but if we can stay within 5-6 points of the top and have semi final of League Cup, along with qualification in the CL already done, then it wont look so bad and we may have a chance to get a good run at things.

Koke from Athletico would be one of the Spanish players I would guess

Morzadec

The excuse of fixtures doesn't really wash at the moment for United.

I came up with a model which states 76 points as a target for guaranteed CL qualification. I imagine this would be the minimum requirement for United fans in terms of both points tally and achievement.

United are currently 3 points off this target (which accounts for fixture difficulty). Extrapolated over the season, United would finish on less than 70 points if they continue their current form (again also taking into account a possibly difficult opening 13 fixtures).

This is my table which accounts for fixture difficulty, and where each club stands in relation to a target of 76 points (which would be minimum requirement for last years top 4, and something to aspire to for the likes of Everton, Spurs and Liverpool).

1. Arsenal: +4 points
2. Chelsea: +1 points
3. Man City: -2 points
4. Liverpool: -2.5 points
5. Man United: -3 points
6. Everton: -3.5 points
7. Spurs: -4.5 points

So even accounting for fixture difficulty United are still doing poorly (this table only accounts for what I consider the 'top 7' of the league.)

However, you can see that United are ahead of Spurs and Everton and essentially level with Liverpool.

This is where I think United will basically be fine.

The first few games under a new manager can often be the most difficult (as we saw with Liverpool under Rodgers last season). United are still basically in amongst the top 4 pretenders after their poor start, and I struggle to see who can finish ahead of them.

Liverpool - thin squad quality and with Sturridge out for 2 months points will be dropped in winnable games.

Spurs - just no firepower. And no Bale to bale them out of tight spots like last year.

Everton - probably don't have the resources or quality required to make a serious push.

So can United win the league? I think it's doubtful.

But I don't think they need to worry too much about dropping out of the top 4.

I predict United will finish on around 75 points in 4th place.

homerjay2005

Morzadec wrote: »

I predict United will finish on around 75 points in 4th place.

we need to improve dramatically for that to happen - currently we are on target to hit about 66-68 and that is not good enough.

xtal191

Anyone here go see The Class of 92? Was it any good?

Timmyctc

xtal191 wrote: »

Anyone here go see The Class of 92? Was it any good?

Absolutely class. Really funny and tense during the match sequences. Was great watch. 9/10 (too much tony blair)

magnumbud

xtal191 wrote: »

Anyone here go see The Class of 92? Was it any good?

i got it on dvd(didnt expect it to be out yet) on friday in golden discs for 13, i found it very enjoyable.

Morzadec

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we need to improve dramatically for that to happen - currently we are on target to hit about 66-68 and that is not good enough.

In short, I believe you will improve.

I also think Spurs don't have enough this year, and Liverpool were likely always going to be relying on a clean bill of health through most of the year in order to get to the mid-70s.

I'm not writing off either team completely, but at the moment neither team is even really ahead of United when you account for fixture difficulty, and United would surely be the safe bet.

Once they get their noses in front (which I think will probably happen over this next month) I don't think the top 4 pretenders will catch them.

Timmyctc

Morzadec wrote: »

The excuse of fixtures doesn't really wash at the moment for United.

I came up with a model which states 76 points as a target for guaranteed CL qualification. I imagine this would be the minimum requirement for United fans in terms of both points tally and achievement.

United are currently 3 points off this target (which accounts for fixture difficulty). Extrapolated over the season, United would finish on less than 70 points if they continue their current form (again also taking into account a possibly difficult opening 13 fixtures).

This is my table which accounts for fixture difficulty, and where each club stands in relation to a target of 76 points (which would be minimum requirement for last years top 4, and something to aspire to for the likes of Everton, Spurs and Liverpool).

1. Arsenal: +4 points
2. Chelsea: +1 points
3. Man City: -2 points
4. Liverpool: -2.5 points
5. Man United: -3 points
6. Everton: -3.5 points
7. Spurs: -4.5 points

So even accounting for fixture difficulty United are still doing poorly (this table only accounts for what I consider the 'top 7' of the league.)

However, you can see that United are ahead of Spurs and Everton and essentially level with Liverpool.

This is where I think United will basically be fine.

The first few games under a new manager can often be the most difficult (as we saw with Liverpool under Rodgers last season). United are still basically in amongst the top 4 pretenders after their poor start, and I struggle to see who can finish ahead of them.

Liverpool - thin squad quality and with Sturridge out for 2 months points will be dropped in winnable games.

Spurs - just no firepower. And no Bale to bale them out of tight spots like last year.

Everton - probably don't have the resources or quality required to make a serious push.

So can United win the league? I think it's doubtful.

But I don't think they need to worry too much about dropping out of the top 4.

I predict United will finish on around 75 points in 4th place.

There are so many things wrong with this post it hurts

IvySlayer

Hey Mr Loner did they do a webcam chat with Giggsy?

Morzadec

Timmyctc wrote: »

There are so many things wrong with this post it hurts

Which parts are particularly wrong in your opinion? (Don't want to give you a headache, but I'm curious, beacuse imo it's a fairly accurate and balanced appraisal of the situation at the moment!)