Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

homerjay2005

ericzeking wrote: »

He'll probably 'save them from relegation' all by himself

would look great for him if they do. its sad to see a coach like him, with a small club.

met a lad on sunday (though he seemed to be a bulls*it merchant at times) that claimed to know steve round and said he was an absolute bellend who is hated on merseyside amongest other things.

think it was a poor move by Moyes to replace Steele and Rene with the likes of him - Rene could easily have slotted in as number 2 no problem.

Agueroooo

ericzeking wrote: »

He'll probably 'save them from relegation' all by himself

He will either be Jol's successor or move to another PL club as manager over the medium term.

he is quality.

FutureGuy

Kagawa's United career ended the day Van Persie signed.

J. Marston

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Will be very interesting to see who comes in to replace Carrick, and how the team opperates without him.

I would say Cleverley and Jones or Cleverley and Fellaini is the way to go.

Rayne Wooney

Jesus by the way some people are going on here you'd swear people were calling for Rooney to be banished to the reserves, a few more games for Kagawa behind the striker is all, the last time he played there he completely changed the way we were attacking and we looked a lot better than we did with Rooney there even though it was only a small cameo.

Responding with Rooney has been our best player this season is completely overlooking the point.

Nalz

Any team out there that uses the 4-3-2-1 system effectively? Didn't Villareal under Pelligrini (sp) use it?

Rooney Kag and Rvp front 3. Fellaini, Carrick and Jones/Clev/Fletch/Anderson as the midfield.

Next to no width though

Pro. F

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Exactly. Also Kagawa links up well with Rooney than RVP. Kagawa moved central against Norwich last season with Rooney paying as striker, Kagawa scored hat trick and Rooney was involved in almost all goals.

Yep, Rooney played well that day imo. I remember a few posters in here thought the opposite for some reason.

ericzeking wrote: »

When I talk about playing Rooney wide, I'm not talking about as a conventional winger which is what he has been previously asked to do, do a job for the team etc etc..... more playing from the left/right in a free forward role, cutting in and playing as a second striker attacking the goal that way, not unlike the way Ronaldo plays. In his current form with his pace, fitness, directness Rooney could do that.
They are kind of doing some of that now and Rooney has done some good stuff from wide areas but primarily he's playing as a central second striker.

This allows Kagawa to play in the no. 10 giving us plenty in midfield to retain the ball and give us an opportunity to create something from the middle of the park.

Playing Rooney there exposes Evra or the RB but we would be playing 2 deep MF who would cover across.

Rooney didn't play as a conventional winger the previous times either. He used to always cut inside with the ball. And Fergie even talked about how that was the plan for him.

Ronaldo has pace that Rooney can't come close to matching so he is better suited to playing wide to begin with. Ronaldo also does no defending which compromises his team. You might get away with Ronaldo not defending because he scores so many goals from wide, but Rooney won't give you that trade off if you try to play him that way.

TheDoc

We have played a 4-4-2 pretty much all season. Obviously Moyes wants Rooney and RVP playing together.

That means we need a high stamina CM and obviously something relatively creative to link it all together. I'd go Jones/Fellaini and Kagawa in CM, ****it at this stag,e give it a shot

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Jesus by the way some people are going on here you'd swear people were calling for Rooney to be banished to the reserves, a few more games for Kagawa behind the striker is all, the last time he played there he completely changed the way we were attacking and we looked a lot better than we did with Rooney there even though it was only a small cameo.

Responding with Rooney has been our best player this season is completely overlooking the point.

No it is not. If you were suggesting dropping RvP to try out Kagawa centrally that might make some sense. But suggesting Rooney be dropped, who has been in much better form than RvP this season, is daft.

Julez

TheDoc wrote: »

That means we need a high stamina CM and obviously something relatively creative to link it all together. I'd go Jones/Fellaini and Kagawa in CM, ****it at this stag,e give it a shot

I wouldn't mind seeing this tried either. In the League Cup or something even.

Kylo Ren

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Ferrdinand

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Januzaj

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Van Persie

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I wonder if something like this could work? Full backs pushing forward.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

No it is not. If you were suggesting dropping RvP to try out Kagawa centrally that might make some sense. But suggesting Rooney be dropped, who has been in much better form than RvP this season, is daft.

If you read the posts you'll see that my point is Kagawa should get more time behind the striker because IMO he is the best number 10 at the club and we're playing a formation that needs a number 10, I haven't posted that Rooney should be dropped.

Julez

Keno wrote: »

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De Gea

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Ferrdinand

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Vidic

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Evra---

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Fellaini

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Carrick

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Januzaj

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Rooney

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Van Persie

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I wonder if something like this could work? Full backs pushing forward.

Basically looks kinda like what we play, but rooney and Kagawa have been swapped... I see what you mean though.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If you read the posts you'll see that my point is Kagawa should get more time behind the striker because he is the best number 10 at the club and we're playing a formation that needs a number 10, I haven't posted that Rooney should be dropped.

I obviously read the posts. I asked you whether you were talking about dropping Rooney because you didn't go into detail on your suggestion.

Kylo Ren

René Meulensteen is Fulham's head coach.

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

No it is not. If you were suggesting dropping RvP to try out Kagawa centrally that might make some sense. But suggesting Rooney be dropped, who has been in much better form than RvP this season, is daft.

Ferguson even addressed it in his book when talking about Veron. Sometimes you have lined a player up for some time and you get him your chuffed, but an unexpected singing appears thats too good to turn down, and your stuck struggling to accomodate that original player.

Kagawa was a longterm target that got signed and was destined to play in behind Rooney, RVP coming along entirely scuppered the plan.

Kagawa is in a weird place. He is not under performing or playing bad, he simply isn't being amazing enough to force Rooney to be dropped or shifted. And RVP is RVP, the guy is going to hit form and strike another 20+.

To accommodate Kagawa, RVP AND Rooney, it's the only thing I see working. We have pretty good full backs who can attack, and that is where width comes from, the two CDM's drop as auxilary defenders during attacking moves.

4-2-3-1 is the only thing I see working with all three.

Fellaini and Carrick holding - Jones in for rotation or when form dips. ( TBH I want to see him getting his CB run

Kagawa - Rooney - Nani/Valencia/Januz

RVP up front alone

Provieds alot of defensive security and alot of fluidity up front, but is a formation that would take time for players to settle into.

I think tactically something needs to be changed. While 4-4-2 is an amazing offensive strategy with fast counter attacks and cover on the flanks, you can be over run so easily in midfield. And it's why I think we look so weak there. Not because we don't have the personal , but we just get out manned every time

Oregano_State

Keno wrote: »

René Meulensteen is Fulham's head coach.

Just saw that. Link.

Makes me sad.

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

No it is not. If you were suggesting dropping RvP to try out Kagawa centrally that might make some sense. But suggesting Rooney be dropped, who has been in much better form than RvP this season, is daft.

You do have to wonder why there is a complete lack of rotation in that area. Its always Rooney and RVP when available, why not a few games with Kagawa and Rooney up front?

We have played the likes of West Brom, Stoke, Sunderland and Norwich, you can't tell me we couldn't have rotated the forward pairings a little bit more than we have.

Hank Scorpio

Considering the pressure Moyes has been under I don't think rotating his best players would have been benificial to his cause

Liam O

Ultimately 3 of Nani, Adnan, Kagawa and Rooney in the same team is only going to be viable in the long term if 2 of Carrick, Jones, Fellaini or a new signing can work together in a deep lying role and cover the wings. The inside-outside style of attacking is just a continuation of Fergie's style and I'd argue those players would be more suited to an outside-inside style where the ball is passed inside rather than the continuous crossing. Just get the players to move closer to each other and demonstrate their superiority rather than hope that one player will take it up in himself to bail the team out as has been the case in the last 3 or 4 seasons.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

You do have to wonder why there is a complete lack of rotation in that area. Its always Rooney and RVP when available, why not a few games with Kagawa and Rooney up front?

We have played the likes of West Brom, Stoke, Sunderland and Norwich, you can't tell me we couldn't have rotated the forward pairings a little bit more than we have.

My bet would be that Moyes doesn't really rate Kagawa that highly. An injury to Rooney or RvP might force Moyes' hand.

Vic Vinegar

Ha, idiot!

Arsenal fan homeless after losing bet on Man United game

A man in Uganda has been made homeless after he lost a bet on the Manchester United v Arsenal game on Sunday.

Henry Dhabasani bet his house that Arsenal would overcome the Red Devils at Old Trafford with United fan Rashid Yigo, who placed both his car and wife on the line.

Local leaders and fans were called in to witness the bet being placed.

Thanks to Robin van Persie’s first half winner, Dhabasani lost his house and was evicted on Monday after several United fans threw him and his family out after storming the property.

The Ugandan Observer reports that the Arsenal fan, who has three wives and five kids, fainted at the end of the match.

Red Crow

homerjay2005 wrote: »

mixture of fickleness, short memory and a baffling sense in certain quarters that Rooneys inclusion in the team is the reason kagawa cant pass the ball and is playing poor.

I think the ones with short memories are the guys who forget that he's twice asked to leave the club.

J. Marston

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Ha, idiot!

That's....sad.

Although it does seem like one of those stories made up on Twitter.

Vic Vinegar

J. Marston wrote: »

That's....sad.

Although it does seem like one of those stories made up on Twitter.

Could be bull, yeah.

It's not sad though, serves him right if he's gonna bet his house on a football game.

homerjay2005

Red Crow wrote: »

I think the ones with short memories are the guys who forget that he's twice asked to leave the club.

has he???? thats news to me. the player himself in the last 2 weeks said he didnt asked to leave the club.

Vic Vinegar

homerjay2005 wrote: »

has he???? thats news to me. the player himself in the last 2 weeks said he didnt asked to leave the club.

Didn't hand in transfer request, did want to leave though....

Everyone knows that.

homerjay2005

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Didn't hand in transfer request, did want to leave though....

Everyone knows that.

you better send Rooney a message so and tell him, as he things he didnt want to leave.

as he said himself, he kept his mouth shut and just got on with it.

Quandary

If Carrick is out we are in big trouble. Unless some of Fellaini, Ando, Cleveley find serious form we really are screwed, especially in the bigger games.

We are so light in midfield it's not funny

Vic Vinegar

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you better send Rooney a message so and tell him, as he things he didnt want to leave.

as he said himself, he kept his mouth shut and just got on with it.

You're just being plain dumb now if you think he wasn't trying to engineer a move away through his agent all summer.

bucketybuck

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you better send Rooney a message so and tell him, as he things he didnt want to leave.

as he said himself, he kept his mouth shut and just got on with it.

Yeah, just you keep telling yourself that.

Donnielighto

Pro. F wrote: »

If Rooney is covering the fullback then he wouldn't be playing further forward than he is now at 10.

I wouldn't play a 41212.

Wasn't saying you'd play it, just wondering who had the task. Rooney covers a shocking load of ground so I could see him managing it.

keane2097

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Could be bull, yeah.

It's not sad though, serves him right if he's gonna bet his house on a football game.

It's sad that people are probably guffawing away at the idea of a bet where a woman was at stake.

homerjay2005

homerjay2005 wrote: »

mixture of fickleness, short memory and a baffling sense in certain quarters that Rooneys inclusion in the team is the reason kagawa cant pass the ball and is playing poor.

Ah jeez, I guess it's my fault for not having the same opinion as you. I'll try and do better next time. I should probably throw in a few "ffs"'s and a billion " " smileys too whenever anyone disagrees with me.

homerjay2005

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

You're just being plain dumb now if you think he wasn't trying to engineer a move away through his agent all summer.

he has the most troublesome agent in football. there is a big difference from stretford acting the b*llix and Rooney wanting to leave. he told Fergie that he would have to leave if he wasnt being picked or played in the right position, he did not however ask to leave.

you shouldnt believe everything you read in the Sun or goal.com for f*ck sake. the majority of what was written about rooney, was absolute rubbish.

Julez

homerjay2005 wrote: »

he has the most troublesome agent in football. there is a big difference from stretford acting the b*llix and Rooney wanting to leave. he told Fergie that he would have to leave if he wasnt being picked or played in the right position, he did not however ask to leave.

you shouldnt believe everything you read in the Sun or goal.com for f*ck sake. the majority of what was written about rooney, was absolute rubbish.

Homer to be fair you've, on a handful of occasions, posted rubbish without any reputable claims and backed it up with "sure everyone knows." If Stretford was trying to engineer a move, Rooney was too, he's Rooneys agent and represents him. If the move came up Rooney would be gone now.

SherlockWatson

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you shouldnt believe everything you read in the Sun or goal.com for f*ck sake.

Weird, because you said this earlier.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

met a lad on sunday (though he seemed to be a bulls*it merchant at times) that claimed to know steve round and said he was an absolute bellend who is hated on merseyside amongest other things.

think it was a poor move by Moyes to replace Steele and Rene with the likes of him - Rene could easily have slotted in as number 2 no problem.

Here, you're clearly happy to take the word of a person you've only just met, who you also label as a "bullshít merchant".

Pro. F

Donnielighto wrote: »

Wasn't saying you'd play it, just wondering who had the task. Rooney covers a shocking load of ground so I could see him managing it.

From what I've seen of the 41212 you either have two of the CMs covering wide or you have the two strikers tracking back wide (I've only seen some South American teams doing it that way). Both are flawed imo.

Rooney covers plenty of ground, but he is still shít when playing from wide, which is what he would be doing if he was meant to cover the opposition fullback.

homerjay2005

homerjay2005 wrote: »

he has the most troublesome agent in football. there is a big difference from stretford acting the b*llix and Rooney wanting to leave. he told Fergie that he would have to leave if he wasnt being picked or played in the right position, he did not however ask to leave.

you shouldnt believe everything you read in the Sun or goal.com for f*ck sake. the majority of what was written about rooney, was absolute rubbish.

Are you seriously telling someone not to believe everything they read after all the stuff you came out with during and after the summer!?

Also video below includes the interview with SAF where he says Rooney asked for a transfer. I don't believe it was put in writing by Rooney but I'd well believe he said it. From 1.15 onward.

Maximus Alexander

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you shouldnt believe everything you read in the Sun or goal.com for f*ck sake. the majority of what was written about rooney, was absolute rubbish.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

its pretty amazing though when you read through and you see how much stuff the media actually get right or in other words, just how much of what gets reported on from behind the scenes is actually true.

id say if there are 100 things in the book, about 80 of them were already reported in some form, by somebody.

Rayne Wooney

The manager decides when you play and what position, threatening to leave is just as bad IMO

Vic Vinegar

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you shouldnt believe everything you read in the Sun or goal.com for f*ck sake.

I don't read either of those so try again.

Backstreet Moyes

The Carrick injury is worrying. But it should finally give Fellaini an indication of what position he is going to play in. Hopefully we see him shielding the back.

Vic Vinegar

Nuts102 wrote: »

The Carrick injury is worrying. But it should finally give Fellaini an indication of what position he is going to play in. Hopefully we see him shielding the back.

We might see Fellaini come into his own, himself and Carrick won't be stepping on each others toes at least!

KH25

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

We might see Fellaini come into his own, himself and Carrick won't be stepping on each others toes at least!

I don't think himself and Carrick should play together tbh, not if Moyes and the player both think he is best as a DM.

bucketybuck

homerjay2005 wrote: »

he has the most troublesome agent in football. there is a big difference from stretford acting the b*llix and Rooney wanting to leave. he told Fergie that he would have to leave if he wasnt being picked or played in the right position, he did not however ask to leave.

you shouldnt believe everything you read in the Sun or goal.com for f*ck sake. the majority of what was written about rooney, was absolute rubbish.

You want to know what we didn't hear all summer, after countless weeks of media reports and speculation?

We didn't hear Rooney at any point come out clearly state that he wanted to stay at the club. The very first thing he said months later when Fergies book came out was to thank Fergie for saying that he didn't hand in a formal request, and thats a very different thing to clearly saying that he wanted to stay.

Nalz

Lol homer, this is turning into weekly thing in this thread!

Would anyone be surprised if we didn't sign anyone in the Jan transfer window? Does anyone expect any biggish name to leave then??

DM_7

Liam O wrote: »

Ultimately 3 of Nani, Adnan, Kagawa and Rooney in the same team is only going to be viable in the long term if 2 of Carrick, Jones, Fellaini or a new signing can work together in a deep lying role and cover the wings. The inside-outside style of attacking is just a continuation of Fergie's style and I'd argue those players would be more suited to an outside-inside style where the ball is passed inside rather than the continuous crossing. Just get the players to move closer to each other and demonstrate their superiority rather than hope that one player will take it up in himself to bail the team out as has been the case in the last 3 or 4 seasons.

The current style of playing outside is because that's where the space is and its easier for less creative central midfield players to play the ball out there and as midfield gets bypassed, Rooney/RvP receive the longer ball under pressure again meaning a pass outside is needed. Until midfield is sorted it will remain like that.

I think what you are hoping for re getting players closer together throughout the attack is the plan, but it won't happen this season.

Even now when players like Kagawa and Januzaj get the ball in wide positions they normally try to get inside rather than just cross. They try to link up with the suppoeting full back and striker, making those triangles. Centrally it doesn't happen yet as play is not built from that part of the pitch. Maybe when the new Scholes type is brought in that will change.

tallaghtmick

Well didnt take long for the personal battles on here to start again :rolleyes:

Pro. F

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Well didnt take long for the personal battles on here to start again :rolleyes:

There's nothing personal about it. If you blatantly contradict yourself in a discussion thread you will get called out on it. Doesn't matter who you are.