Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Rayne Wooney

Oh dear

Didn't get to watch the game, don't plan to after reading stuff on here


I'm guessing the performance was exactly the same as before??
How long until this miraculous performance level hits United? We've been absolute muck since the season began and have shown no sign improving after Moyes said his team was good enough... Good enough for what a top 10 finish?

Kerrydude1981

Didn't Moyes say a few weeks back that Utd would only buy in January if the right targets were available?

SAF used say that as well and he did little or no business in January in the last few years of his reign.

Should Moyes be saying that ya Utd will be in the market for players so a sign of intent,it might get a reaction out of the deadwood that is in the squad atm.

TheDoc

wonderfullife wrote: »

nobody is keeping you here, off you go toodle pip.

Or how about this - ACCEPT many, many people with good knowledge of football can spot a man that is unproven, tactically inept, out of his depth and as FANS of the football club they are voicing their OPINION that he should be got rid of before it's too late.

Trust me - it CAN be too late. Look at the shambles at Liverpool in the early 1990s and look at the lasting impact there.

This isn't about United fans wanting to become Chelsea or City sacking managers every 2 mins. This is about United fans wanting the wrong man sacked and the right man inserted. Someone with a top class CV and history of managing a top club successfully.

Off you go back to Football365 if you cant handle a different opinion to yours.

I've no problem with peoples different opinions, there is plenty here on a variety of things.

But I'm not going to just sit and read people posting "Moyes out" and there being no challenge to it. IT was the ONE danger for where this could spiral to, if people spun their back on Moyes quickly, and he had no option but to leave. Then you get onto a merry go round of hiring and firing mediocre managers.

Moyes wasn't picked over night, it was a rather lengthy process when you look at it.

Nobody can hand on heart stand back and say Moyes was perfect, that there was nothing better. Of course not, we all had our reservations. But as can be typical around here with a lot of discussions, it's all knee jerk without any scope for the wider picture.

We sack Moyes tonight...what happens, you guys tell me. Who is coming in to be the big saviour, or do we just write of the season try again next year.

Which big name manager is going to be free?


My posts are against those with the stupid and annoying "moyes out" ****e. I've no problem with guys like Headshot who go to length to maybe outline their thoughts, fine I dont agree with, I've no problem with other peoples opinions. But I'm not standing by on a "discussions" forum, to see one liners from people spouting bollox.

So don't try spin things like I've got a problem with other peoples opinions, I've a REAL problem with people calling for a manager to be sacked, with a one liner, not even half way through a season.

Hitchens

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Of course because we lost tonight.

same thing happened when Busby packed it in

titan18

aperture_nuig wrote: »

To those that want Moyes gone, who would you bring in? Even if you wait til the end of the season, your options are limited. particularly if we fail to finish in the top 4 this year.

Just til the end of the season, Hiddink. He'd stabilise, get performances out of the players and does excellent work over the short term.

After that, offer Simeone anything he wants to get him to join us

Hank Scorpio

If we finish outside the top 4 do people still think Moyes should remain in charge? I guess that's the key question. There's no chance of winning the league now imo. I'd like to see him given a chance to bring in some players over the next 2 windows but if he finishes outside CL qualification I think he should be sacked

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

There is alot more catchup to be done by Moyes, that has been obvious since the beginning. I'd hoped our fanbase might have been a bit mature and giving him the time he CLEARLY needs to adapt.

But we aren't a learning club. And being honest, I've got ZERO reason to believe he's capable of learning. He's done nothing to prove to me that he can adapt; he's taken a team who won the league at a canter last year and now we're 9th in the table nearly halfway through the season.

Why are you so sure that Moyes is capable of actually learning and changing? What gives you the faith in Moyes as a manager? Because I constantly feel that people aren't arguing to keep Moyes in particular in the job, but rather arguing that we can't sack a drastically underpreforming manager because....we just can't! We're United, goddamn it. And if we've made a mistaking choosing the wrong manager, well we've just got to stick it out...

jonnyfingers

Moyes really needs to be given a break. This bull**** that Ferguson won the league with this squad but now that Moyes is managing them they're suddenly ****?

Well lets look at who is playing better this season then last season. I would say it's probably Rooney and Evra, and that's it. The rest of the squad have not performed well this season and I'm not sure how much that is down to Moyes. He may not be as effective a motivator as Ferguson, but who would be really? I think the players are just not playing to their potential and need to be held accountable for that.

Also Moyes doesn't have Scholes, who played a small part last season, but was still an option. Giggs is one year older and I think has reached the end. Ferdinand is a year older and can't play every game. Vidic is getting on to and picking up niggly injuries. RVP has been injured quite a bit this season, luckily he was fit for almost all of last season. The likes of Nani and Anderson have been their usual frustrating self. Kagawa has shown some promise but isn't consistent. Carrick has been injured, again he was fit for most of last season. Rafael has been injured and we've resorted to playing centre halfs and wingers at right back instead.

So I don't think it's very fair to judge Moyes' performance against that of Ferguson last year. He has most of the same team as Ferguson, however he's had a lot more injuries and most of the players are under-performing.

Yes Moyes' priority was to address those squad problems during the summer and he did fail in doing that. However I'm not sure how much was his fault and how much was the club's fault (Woodward et al). Ferguson has said numerous times that he would identify a target and Martin Edwards or David Gill would get them for him. I think Moyes identified targets but Woodward couldn't get them. So I don't blame Moyes too much for that.

Luckily we have an upcoming transfer window to try again. If we fail again, then I'll be worried. We still need to give Moyes a full season and then at the end of it review how things went, and why they went that way, and if the manager is found to be at fault then we need to go for someone else. But lets wait until then. And if we end up outside the top 4, then so be it. We've been on top of the league for longer than anyone should be really, it's bound to end sometime. I'd rather it end swiftly so we can rebuild and start again.

Headshot

RobertKK wrote: »

Has he failed in Europe so far?

He soon will be when the big giants come and crush us but I dont care about Europe because we will never win it anytime soon again. The bread and butter is the PL and will always be for me Robert.

Cantona's Collars

20 points dropped so far,we dropped 25 in the whole of last season.

Lennonist

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Think Fergie cares? He would've banned himself from OT by now if he was in Moyes position.

Ferguson would've been sacked as Man United manager after his first few seasons in today's climate. I think he knows that. He recommended Moyes for the job, he should clear out and let him get on with it.

Hitchens

Moyes just minutes ago - "It wasn't about me tonight, I was fortunate to manage Everton and I'm fortunate to be managing Manchester United. It's a big catch up for us now."

RobertKK

nuxxx wrote: »

If we finish outside the top 4 do people still think Moyes should remain in charge? I guess that's the key question. There's no chance of winning the league now imo. I'd like to see him given a chance to bring in some players over the next 2 windows but if he finishes outside CL qualification I think he should be sacked

No, top 4 is the minimum requirement, if United go from champions to outside the top 4 then someone has to take responsibility for that collapse.

J. Marston

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Great point.

Easier said then done getting rid now.

I want Moyes to stay till end of season. He deserves a chance. But if he does not get CL he has to go.

Why? What's he done to earn a chance at one of the biggest clubs in the world? (although the longer he sticks around, the more that title will diminish). His only managerial honour is winning League 2.

Nalz

What players are playing poorly this season that is Moyes fault?

What did Fergie do in the summer\January windows that Moyes should have done in his one transfer window so far after inheriting the champions?

Is this all down, or 50% down to Moyes shape,tactics and team selections?

I'm not saying Moyes has done nothing wrong just interested in opinions, honest logical ones.

UnitedIrishman

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Great point.

Easier said then done getting rid now.

I want Moyes to stay till end of season. He deserves a chance. But if he does not get CL he has to go.

That's the measuring stick right there. If he can't get CL football then it's time to go. I'm happy enough to let it to until the end of the season, but we can't keep him beyond that for the sake of 'giving him time'.

Headshot

Yes Kew why does he deserve a chance? If I managed utd tomorrow would I deserve a chance too ;P

edgecutter

Tonight we were unlucky, but what about the brain dead subs tonight? What about the lack of subs when we needed them in other games? What about the have what we hold attitude and constantly picking the wrong eleven each week?

All of us here hoped welbeck wouldn't play today, low and behold who starts. The constant changing of players positions in the game tonight was beyond stupid and it caught us out. This isn't a one off, this has been a factor this season.

RobertKK

Headshot wrote: »

He soon will be when the big giants come and crush us but I dont care about Europe because we will never win it anytime soon again. The bread and butter is the PL and will always be for me Robert.

I agree we won't be winning that, unless a miracle happens.

The PL is a big concern, United caanot afford to lose anymore games, 5 points off 4th place, the only good thing is the run of games United have coming up which please God they win.

adox

Well I'll presume Kew meant that once a manager is appointed by a club he deserves at least a season there. Not that Moyes has a divine right because of who he is.

TheDoc

Headshot wrote: »

It irritates me so much how people back this man, how in the name of jebus can you support a man that has done **** all in the world of football.

No one can hand on heart say they had no reservations, but at the same time some people do jsut feel the need for positive outlook.

And that is not to say anyone not is not a fan (I'm not saying that)

Sure if REALITY wasn't a thing, I'd love having Pep at the helm. But that's not an option now.

And to say he has done **** all is petty to be honest, your intelligent enough to know that's rubbish.

There is a handful of managers a decade that get the resources and chance to ACTUALLY make a meaningful impact on world football with winning trophies, building sides and the likes.

This is his chance, if things don't work out, fair enough. But Moyes had a good track record of managing young up and coming players, making competitive sides with limited resources, from many sources being able to peel wallpaper of the wall with his shouting and a few other bits.

His job is DOUBLY harder by also having to work with a new inexperienced Chief exec that led to some poor work in the summer. That's just life, you can't always get in someone with bags of experience, you have to give people a crack of the whip.

While it irratates you as to why people back him, it infuriates me people expected this to be something of a smooth journey. That we would be sitting top of the table, ripping teams apart. That was never going to be the case, surely everyone knew deep down, with the big three changing managers, this was going to be a wild season.

If United finish outside CL spots, sure, there isn't much arguement to be fair. But I defend him only in the hope that this is all down to the first six months in the job, that he will learn and that in due course we will be back challenging for titles.

There is nothing out there at the moment management wise to indicate that things can be turned around quickly.

So not being smart, but I'll ask again, Moytes sacked tomorrow, whose coming in to help us challenge for titles?

Hitchens

Match of the Day running order BBC One/online at 2235 GMT.


Sunderland v Chelsea

Man Utd v Everton

Liverpool v Norwich

Southampton v Aston Villa

WBA v Man City

Arsenal v Hull

Crystal Palace v West Ham

Fulham v Spurs

Swansea v Newcastle

Stoke v Cardiff

tallaghtmick

Its annoying how we've regressed while Everton have gotten better.

Rayne Wooney

Oh dear god

Please ban everyone from saying "good run of games"

Please please please for the sake of not being relegated

edgecutter

Why is everyone here blaming players, it's moyes job to motivate them. If they don't play well or show desire then moyes needs to start playing tough love i.e. fcuking bench them.

ElChe32

I'd love to hear Moyes' reasoning on how he kept Welbeck on for 80 minutes...and a 40 year old giggs on for the full 90?

Cantona's Collars

Just goes to show how much of a legend Fergie is to have won the league with that shower last season.

Wellbeck should be gone,Evra's a hero but past it,Valencia just isn't a footballer anymore.

The less said about our midfield the better.

If we don't get some reinforcements into the club in January we can forget about CL football next season.We are the same distance to the bottom 3 as we are to the top of the table,for a team who won the thing with the same squad last season it's unforgivable.

Technophobe

ElChe32 wrote: »

Manager: David Moyes

Not for long

RobertKK

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Oh dear god

Please ban everyone from saying "good run of games"

Please please please for the sake of not being relegated

OK apologies, we will probably lose or lose or draw all of them though.

edgecutter

ElChe32 wrote: »

I'd love to hear Moyes' reasoning on how he kept Welbeck on for 80 minutes...and a 40 year old giggs on for the full 90?

"Ack aye he is a wonderful player"

The_Kew_Tour

J. Marston wrote: »

Why? What's he done to earn a chance at one of the biggest clubs in the world? (although the longer he sticks around, the more that title will diminish). His only managerial honour is winning League 2.

Headshot wrote: »

Yes Kew why does he deserve a chance? If I managed utd tomorrow would I deserve a chance too ;P

adox wrote: »

Well I'll presume Kew meant that once a manager is appointed by a club he deserves at least a season there. Not that Moyes has a divine right because of who he is.

Yes adox you are right.

Im forwarding my CV on as we speak though

#kewforManUtd

Technophobe

If we find we are looking good for even fourth place, surely will impact our ability to attract some players...?

Hitchens

if Rooney gets injured it won't bode well

wonderfullife

TheDoc wrote: »

I've no problem with peoples different opinions, there is plenty here on a variety of things.

But I'm not going to just sit and read people posting "Moyes out" and there being no challenge to it. IT was the ONE danger for where this could spiral to, if people spun their back on Moyes quickly, and he had no option but to leave. Then you get onto a merry go round of hiring and firing mediocre managers.

Moyes wasn't picked over night, it was a rather lengthy process when you look at it.

Nobody can hand on heart stand back and say Moyes was perfect, that there was nothing better. Of course not, we all had our reservations. But as can be typical around here with a lot of discussions, it's all knee jerk without any scope for the wider picture.

We sack Moyes tonight...what happens, you guys tell me. Who is coming in to be the big saviour, or do we just write of the season try again next year.

Which big name manager is going to be free?


My posts are against those with the stupid and annoying "moyes out" ****e. I've no problem with guys like Headshot who go to length to maybe outline their thoughts, fine I dont agree with, I've no problem with other peoples opinions. But I'm not standing by on a "discussions" forum, to see one liners from people spouting bollox.

So don't try spin things like I've got a problem with other peoples opinions, I've a REAL problem with people calling for a manager to be sacked, with a one liner, not even half way through a season.

Guus Hiddink.

Get him straight in now on a contract til the end of the season. He's not the long term answer but by God he's a good coach, a good man, no nonsense , no bull and he could most definitely steer United to the top 4.

Lord TSC

TheDoc wrote: »

While it irratates you as to why people back him, it infuriates me people expected this to be something of a smooth journey. That we would be sitting top of the table, ripping teams apart.

This is a problem; don't misrepresent people. I think most people accepted we'd be dropping down and the main aim was Top 4. Few thought he'd be doing that, so don't start trying to attack people by misrepresenting their expectations.

If anything, people lowered their expectations for United this season, and still Moyes has managed to fall short of them.

TheDoc

edgecutter wrote: »

Why is everyone here blaming players, it's moyes job to motivate them. If they don't play well or show desire then moyes needs to start playing tough love i.e. fcuking bench them.

I'd say Moyes will get to grips with it soon enough. I think everyone might hold onto major change and roaring matches now, after what happened with AVB.

I think Moyes is big enough to manage this club, I really do, I'm just waiting for the catalyst that sets it in motion. Surely it has to come soon.

And I mean big decisions to be made, Moyes has alot of major problems to contend with. Ferdinand and Vidic are looking worse by the week, our CM is in dire straits(never addressed by SAF), we have a gifted CAM that we cannot accommodate.

I genuinelly am hopeful that he is going to make a big decision, and if it comes off, it gives him the confidence that he was picked for the job for a reason

Rayne Wooney

The only way to turn this around is Moyes being given a blank cheque book in January to sign 4 or 5 players, that'll never happen though

Kerrydude1981

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Its annoying how we've regressed while Everton have gotten better.

As Lee Dixon said tonight when Everton get the ball the player on the ball has plenty of options and then it was the opposite with Utd,the player might have one option of a pass or else try and play it over the top in the hope Rooney might get on the end of it.

Hank Scorpio

Hitchens wrote: »

if Rooney gets injured it won't bode well

He's out for the next match I think suspended. Vidic probably out aswell

Headshot

TheDoc wrote: »

No one can hand on heart say they had no reservations, but at the same time some people do jsut feel the need for positive outlook.

And that is not to say anyone not is not a fan (I'm not saying that)

Sure if REALITY wasn't a thing, I'd love having Pep at the helm. But that's not an option now.

And to say he has done **** all is petty to be honest, your intelligent enough to know that's rubbish.

There is a handful of managers a decade that get the resources and chance to ACTUALLY make a meaningful impact on world football with winning trophies, building sides and the likes.

This is his chance, if things don't work out, fair enough. But Moyes had a good track record of managing young up and coming players, making competitive sides with limited resources, from many sources being able to peel wallpaper of the wall with his shouting and a few other bits.

His job is DOUBLY harder by also having to work with a new inexperienced Chief exec that led to some poor work in the summer. That's just life, you can't always get in someone with bags of experience, you have to give people a crack of the whip.

While it irratates you as to why people back him, it infuriates me people expected this to be something of a smooth journey. That we would be sitting top of the table, ripping teams apart. That was never going to be the case, surely everyone knew deep down, with the big three changing managers, this was going to be a wild season.

If United finish outside CL spots, sure, there isn't much arguement to be fair. But I defend him only in the hope that this is all down to the first six months in the job, that he will learn and that in due course we will be back challenging for titles.

There is nothing out there at the moment management wise to indicate that things can be turned around quickly.

So not being smart, but I'll ask again, Moytes sacked tomorrow, whose coming in to help us challenge for titles?

Doc your logic goes out the window in recent times with Wigan and Swansea winning trophies. You cant say he hasnt had a chance to win trophies.

No one expects to continue what saf has done but to actually take a title winning team and have one of the worse starts in utd's history and be 9th in December doesnt make sense. He is just so tactically poor is mind boggling. Nearly every game we see a first 11 that 1-3 players that shouldnt be starting and we see subs that either make no sense or brought on way to late.

adox

The only big transfer happening anytime soon with Utd I fear, will be Rooney leaving, probably next summer.

These are tough times for the club and they are only going to get tougher in the short term IMO.

RobertKK

Watching MUTV, saying things are not good enough, too reliant on Rooney and RVP.
The problem they say is too reliant on two players for the goals.

Though I would say Januzaj is a real goal threat. I think Jesse Lingard should be brought back, he has a great eye for goal.

The usual transfer window rumour of Wesley Sneijder is starting again too :pac:

wadacrack

Moyes brought in Fellaini for 24 million that was a major problem. Fellaini not worth that money. He has been very poor. Rio and Vidic look past it. Cleverly not good enough. we need to get ore out of Kagawa, Van Persie, and Nani. Zaha should be given a chance

SirDelboy18

No point getting rid now. He should see out the season at least, then the situation should be evaluated if he has failed to meet criteria such as Champions League football.

Only manager who is realistically available right now who the fanbase would accept is probably Ole, and it's not like he has real experience.

kippy

Fickle, shortsighted and somewhat knee jerkish.
They're the three terms I've seen posters here use to describe the fans of other clubs over the years.
Now, when he shoe is on the other foot, it turns out most fans fit those terms, no matter who they support.

Moyes needs time, a few more players and a semblance of a reality check from certain areas of the support.
It doesn't look like he'll get any of those and hence the circle will begin.

Hank Scorpio

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

No point getting rid now. He should see out the season at least, then the situation should be evaluated if he has failed to meet criteria such as Champions League football.

Only manager who is realistically available right now who the fanbase would accept is probably Ole, and it's not like he has real experience.

Capello?

jonnyfingers

I honestly think the vast majority of managers would struggle with the current United squad with the players playing as they are. I even think Ferguson would struggle this season, and I think he realised it and that helped his decision to retire. In an ideal world I'd love to see someone like Pep in, who could possibly change the way we played football. But even then that would take time for the players to adapt. This season was always going to be difficult, it's just frustrating that we're making it even more difficult by some of the players just not performing.

Nalz

Headshot wrote: »

Nearly every game we see a first 11 that 1-3 players that shouldnt be starting.

But we saw Fergie do this many a time too? Raf in midfield, Raf and Fabio on either side of midfield, Welbeck on the left, Rooney on the left, Rooney on the right, Rooney in centre mid, O Shea in midfield, Kagawa hardly used, Keane CB as a 3 vs Chelsea yonks ago... I wont bring the Carrick Fletch CBs in to it that was kinda forced

Just putting holes in your argument like you did with the Wigan Swansea cup winners comment to Doc

J. Marston

9th position in December, 12 points behind the leaders, probably the the most pathetic league title defence in Premier League history. Dropping out of the top four looking more and more like a certainty. Using players like Welbeck out on the wing when players like Nani and Januzaj are available. 20 points dropped out of 42.

C'mon Moyes defenders, join the dark side and realise he's useless.

dubmick

We could go sixth (for a couple of hours) if we win on Saturday. Exciting times.