Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

tayto lover

I'm also an Arsenal fan but after tonight I think you are in trouble.

Too many of your players are playing badly and this erodes the confidence of the rest after a period. The belief gets sucked out of the others.

I've seen it happen too often in the past to believe you can reverse the trend easily. Once heads start to drop and players start complaining things can get progressively worse. It happens to all successful clubs at some stage.

Sir Gallagher

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Moyes' time at united starting to look like Hodgson's at Liverpool. Sometime's it's best to cut your losses if the fit ain't right.
Giving a manager time just because you don't want to be like the Chelsea, City, Liverpool is nonsense and counter productive if the manager is doing a bad job. If Chelsea, City and Liverpool stood by underperforming manager's they'd be stuck with Roberto Di Matteo, Mark Hughes and Roy Hodgson, none of which are good enough for those respective clubs. You could add Moyes to that list for United imo.

EdenHazard wrote: »

Not sure if serious...........

Yeah i'm serious, RDM was never going to make the grade long term at Chelsea. Winning the Champions league was a great achievement, but looking at the bigger picture, he didn't have the pedigree to be Chelsea boss on a long term basis.

adox

Your Airbag wrote: »

He's right. Moyes really went for it. No negativity tonight. We were very unlucky. The Moyes out brigade will ignore all this and focus on the result but Moyes made some really bold subs and after he made them we went through a spell where Everton were on the ropes. I have no idea how they managed to keep us out.

A lot is on the players after tonight, they were very wasteful. Rooney out and Vidic with an injury will be big blows.

Raf off and Welbs being left on are the only question marks I have, maybe Raf didn't have 90 mins in him, but Kagawa could not get in the game, Adnan was very good and Chico too although he could have come on earlier, but we were not coming from behind and looked good at that stage so I can understand the delay.

Desperately unlucky. Big blow and very disappointing result given how we played.

I couldn't see any reason to take Rafael off and leave Valencia on unless Rafael had or was running out of steam. Weakening the team defensively by putting Valencia to right back and indeed offensively as Rafael would offer so much more, attacking, in that position.

Welbeck was lucky to stay on, so anonymous. Moving him from playing wide to up front and sticking Kagawa out wide was just stupid like it was last week.

Adnan was lively when he came on, as was Nani, but Chico barely got a kick.
I agree the players have to take a large part of the blame, not just for tonight but for the season so far, but what can you do, sack the players?

I do agree that Utd were a little unlucky to lose and had quite a few chances to win the game but lose they did.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Yep, thats it right there.

Even Stoke played well at OT against us.

Southampton dominated periods too. It's something that might have happened under Fergie maybe once a season against weaker teams. Now it's a regular occurance.

Cantona's Collars

rarnes1 wrote: »

It's not just the defeats for Utd fans, it's the performances more than anything. Being outplayed at home by teams you should be beating.

You know we never agree:pac:

But this time you are 100% correct,the performances have been shocking plus the gaping holes in midfield don't help.

NIMAN

It was good to see an Everton team that actually went to the likes of OT and tried to win for a change.

Getting rid of Moyes was a good thing for Everton, he had taken them as far as he could, and they needed someone who let them play a bit more open football.

irishfeen

Realistically if the cheque book was thrown wide open in January (as it might have to be) who would you lot recon would be our best bets on signing players to improve the team to a level to re-compete at the top? ...

homerjay2005

absolutely gutted with that. its sickening to see us in 9th position two points ahead of a team who were relegation material last season.

the team looked dead on their feet last 10. reaction to the goal very poor both on pitch and off it- about 15000 people walked out when the goal went in. says alot to be honest.

awful atmosphere and it feels like the players and supporters are losing connection with the club. very low moral around right now.

Chazz Michael Michaels

I've said this before, Moyes is performing to his level...

titan18

Headshot wrote: »

Adox I never rated him and was against buying him. I personally think since he came to utd the magnifying glass is on him now and this is the real fell. A good game for Everton doesn't mean a good game for utd I believe

He's definitely better than what he's shown so far. I've seen him a lot with Everton, not just the games against United, as my dad's an Everton fan, and he's not playing up to his ability at all.

adox

Headshot wrote: »

Adox I never rated him and was against buying him. I personally think since he came to utd the magnifying glass is on him now and this is the real fell. A good game for Everton doesn't mean a good game for utd I believe

Well I was happy with the signing but he has been shocking and I believe if he was performing like that for Everton he'd be dropped. There have been times when he has more or less stood still and done nothing - literally. Something ain't right there.

Also it seems ludicrous that his operation was postponed and he has barely played since the decision was made. He'd be more or less over it by now and fit for the Christmas period and rest of the season. A baffling decision.

Giruilla

Shocking defending from Valencia in that stage of a game. Wouldn't get away with losing concentration like that with Keane and Ferguson around.

Does anyone know exactly what position Fellaini thought he was playing tonight? He is absolutely all over the place for united at the moment (yet I still believe he'll come good).

user2011

I'm honestly struggling to stay in the Moyes camp, totally lost in what direction the guy is taking us other then the wrong way. Things have changed f#*k all from SAF playing wise result wise they have gone off the cliff.

Rayne Wooney

watching MOTD

1) why the fcuk aren't Nani, Rooney, Kagawa and Jan playing every game, obviously our best attacking players and what the fcuk are Welbeck and Valencia doing still starting for United

2) Moyes talking about luck annoyed me, we've been outplayed by most we've played this season and embarrassed more times than I'd like to admit, we were outplayed in midfield tonight and lost the game, he should stop talking about damn luck, seriously.


3) Fellaini is brutal, good player playing badly my backside, small fish big massive ocean more like

Kerrydude1981

Giruilla wrote: »

Shocking defending from Valencia in that stage of a game. Wouldn't get away with losing concentration like that with Keane and Ferguson around.

Does anyone know exactly what position Fellaini thought he was playing tonight? He is absolutely all over the place for united at the moment (yet I still believe he'll come good).

Everytime he plays he always seems to be stuck between positions.

jank

United fans make me laugh. For years they were winning all before them and giving out how smalltime it was for fans of other clubs to turn on their manager. Now, in early December what have we? United fans turning on their manager cause they are out of the league. There is going to be a transformation process. Get into CL this year, replace the dross (giggs should be no where near that team) and motor on. You have had it too good for too long, much like Liverpool in the 70's/80's. No club has a right to be winning games.

Giruilla

Is it just me or did Evertons fitness levels seem to twice as much as Uniteds?
What does Martinez do to his teams!

Nalz

jank wrote: »

United fans make me laugh. For years they were winning all before them and giving out how smalltime it was for fans of other clubs to turn on their manager. Now, in early December what have we? United fans turning on their manager cause they are out of the league. There is going to be a transformation process. Get into CL this year, replace the dross (giggs should be no where near that team) and motor on. You have had it too good for too long, much like Liverpool in the 70's/80's. No club has a right to be winning games.

First of all its not all United fans calling for his head etc.
Yes there is an element of truth in what you're saying but at the same time some feel aggrieved at the top level experience tick-box was looked over when picking Moyes from the list of candidates for the job.

I go further as to say that they're not for one second thinking or sub consciously thinking that they've a right to win games

Timmyctc

jank wrote: »

United fans make me laugh. For years they were winning all before them and giving out how smalltime it was for fans of other clubs to turn on their manager. Now, in early December what have we? United fans turning on their manager cause they are out of the league. There is going to be a transformation process. Get into CL this year, replace the dross (giggs should be no where near that team) and motor on. You have had it too good for too long, much like Liverpool in the 70's/80's. No club has a right to be winning games.

What a BS post

United fans (the sensible ones anyways) gave out, and rightly so, about teams lke City and Chelsea, who were smalltime, got a cash injection and sacked manager after manager because success wasn't instant. This club the premier league champions don't have a right to win games, but the fact a new manager is incapable of winning games with the team is simply poor. there is no two ways around it. Clearly you don't watch many united games and didnt watch today. Giggs is the only CM united have that can pass creatively and successfully now that Carrick is injured. Despite being 40 there are many more other players who should be shifted before Giggs (Welbeck, Young, Anderson, Cleverly, Valencia) Then countless reserve players who have been lingering around far to long.

United fans are turning on the manager because he has regressed the PL holders and there looks to be no sign of improvement or positivity. He doesn;t even know his best 11 ffs

kippy

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Yeah i'm serious, RDM was never going to make the grade long term at Chelsea. Winning the Champions league was a great achievement, but looking at the bigger picture, he didn't have the pedigree to be Chelsea boss on a long term basis.

Whats long term in a chelsea context?

bucketybuck

I do not want Moyes sacked.

But **** me, do I ever want him to cop himself on.

His team selections and tactics have been horrible all season and its wearing incredibly thin. Valencia has been muck all season, but game after game it is Valencia on the right. How Tom Cleverly lasted past half-time on Sunday was a joke, and now tonight we have the completely ineffectual Wellbeck lasting until the 80th min, long after Kagawa had departed the scene.

Why was Evans dropped? Can he not pick a ****ing team and stick with it for a few games ffs?

You have a rubbish squad there David Moyes, but the fact is you are not using the tools you have at your disposal well at all.

GavRedKing

kippy wrote: »

Whats long term in a chelsea context?

Anything longer than a season is good for the typical chelsea manager. :pac:

Hulk Hands

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

watching MOTD

1) why the fcuk aren't Nani, Rooney, Kagawa and Jan playing every game, obviously our best attacking players and what the fcuk are Welbeck and Valencia doing still starting for United

2) Moyes talking about luck annoyed me, we've been outplayed by most we've played this season and embarrassed more times than I'd like to admit, we were outplayed in midfield tonight and lost the game, he should stop talking about damn luck, seriously.


3) Fellaini is brutal, good player playing badly my backside, small fish big massive ocean more like

Just back in the hotel after the game. Not good enough is completely true. Us being outplayed is complete and utter bollix. We shouldve been 3 up by the time Everton had their late two chances. Not good enough certainly but I hate the suggestion that every time a lesser team does better than expected against a top team, they outplayed them. Just like Southampton and West Bromwich before this, we were the better team and lost. As we should expect but no need to say it just for the sake of it

The_Kew_Tour

irishfeen wrote: »

When I saw 70-30% possession to Everton at Old Trafford during the second half come up on screen it was just one of those moments when I thought to myself - we're in deep deep trouble here

When we played Crystal Palace back in September it was 76%-24% for Palace at a period in 2nd half.

When they were down to 10 men.

SlickRic

he's doing a bad job right now.

the team looks largely castrated.

it's just whether you want to be patient and let him learn on the job or not, because it may take a while.

Red Crow

rarnes1 wrote: »

Southampton dominated periods too. It's something that might have happened under Fergie maybe once a season against weaker teams. Now it's a regular occurance.

What are you taking about. United have had plenty of poor performances last season. The only difference this year is RVP and Carrick haven't been as good

Lord TSC

SlickRic wrote: »

it's just whether you want to be patient and let him learn on the job or not, because it may take a while.

Again I ask, why should I believe he has the ability to learn if given that time?

newballsplease

Back from the game, had good seats. Few things il point out that people may or may not have noticed...(state the obvious for some)
Lukaku is a huge beast and bullied vidic off the ball on few ocasions.
Wellbeck is too slow and utd players seem to think he can run onto long passes that he simply cant make when in a 1 on 1 sprint.
Fellani looks like a lost child playing too deep. Too slow when he does get a ball to make any sort of creative pass.
Chico got a great reception when he came on.
ALOT of the crowd left after the Eve goal went in.
The ref didnt do utd much favours,but no excuse.
Giggs playing 90mins was a joke.
Valencia was in no mans land at Right back for the goal.
Poor crowd and poor performance.



A place in champions league is Utds aim now. The league is surely gone.

bucketybuck

At one point in the last few minutes Nani had dropped deep into his own half and collected the ball under a little pressure, about 10/15 yards in from the left touchline. Facing back towards our goal, he feinted left to face the midfield area, clearly looking to lay the ball off short to a midfielder.

There was nobody there.

There was nobody in the midfield, behind the centre circle area, nobody darting forward to collect a short ball and keep possession moving.

Nobody. It was a ****ing disgrace.

2moreMinutes

The next person to say that Valencia should start because he's a good defender should be made sit and listen to Robbie Fowler for hours on end.

Your Airbag

An explanation of why the match was not televised

Nalz

Red Crow wrote: »

What are you taking about. United have had plenty of poor performances last season. The only difference this year is RVP and Carrick haven't been as good

True, we were rubbish last year and RVP dug us out of games.... games like tonight, Southampton at home, West Brom at home and Cardiff away.

bryangiggsy

Just saw the game. Midfield was horrendous. Fellani wud not even get on Evertons team now. Can any utd fan tell me it would be acceptable to keep moyes if we finish outside the top four? Imo if top 4 is in real doubt at xmas the january transfer window might not even save him.

newballsplease

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Just saw the game. Midfield was horrendous. Fellani wud not even get on Evertons team now. Can any utd fan tell me it would be acceptable to keep moyes if we finish outside the top four? Imo if top 4 is in real doubt at xmas the january transfer window might not even save him.

I feel utd will now struggle to attract any sort of world class player.

Nalz

newballsplease wrote: »

I feel utd will now struggle to attract any sort of world class player.

Milan, Juve, Barca etc have had spells like this and worse and attracted decent signings

Who's a serious and realistic target right now? I can see Cabaye and Baines being signed.

mada999

dahat wrote: »

Grandad standing by the Grandkids, getting a bit tiresome now

not really, going by the highlights, imo looked like man utd had more clear cut chances. Rooney was unlucky a few times... Liverpool fan here btw.. ya gotta stand by yer man

Giruilla

newballsplease wrote: »

Fellani looks like a lost child playing too deep. Too slow when he does get a ball to make any sort of creative pass.

I think not only does he play too deep, he's over-committing up front when he does attack and is slow as f*ck getting back. Barkley had far too many free counter sprints through midfield in that game.

Red Crow

Honestly I'd like to see the following be moved on in the next 12 months: Cleverley, Giggs, Valencia, Rio, Anderson and Young.

The performances under Moyes aren't that different to Ferguson last year. Ferguson had Carrick and van Persie in top form last year and Moyes hasn't had that. We've been poor this year but Cleverley, Young, Valencia have all been giving these rubbish displays for a couple of years now. Even Welbeck has been fairly poor for a long period now. Evans has regressed a little in the past few months too. It's been a shocking start. But the players have been sh1te. Bar Rooney and De Gea I don't know one player who I would look at and say that he's been very good this year.

We need a new central midfield, a winger and a left back and we'll be right back up there. The only way Moyes will lose his faith with me is if he keeps playing the likes of Valencia and not trying to change it up. The players were a disgrace today and no matter what the tactics are they just looked so sh1te today and that's their fault. I thought Moues made the right moves and none of the lads out there today busted a gut for this team.

Its not good enough but if Moyes makes the right moves in the transfer market and dumps some of these useless players then I'll be 100% behind him.

Nalz

Giruilla wrote: »

I think not only does he play too deep, he's over-committing up front when he does attack and is slow as f*ck getting back. Barkley had far too many free counter sprints through midfield in that game.

him and giggs as a pairing were shocking
Welbeck was shocking
Rooney was poor
Valencia all huff and puff no quality at all
Kagawa not great

mada999

Timmyctc wrote: »

[/B]

What a BS post

United fans (the sensible ones anyways) gave out, and rightly so, about teams lke City and Chelsea, who were smalltime, got a cash injection and sacked manager after manager because success wasn't instant. This club the premier league champions don't have a right to win games, but the fact a new manager is incapable of winning games with the team is simply poor. there is no two ways around it. Clearly you don't watch many united games and didnt watch today. Giggs is the only CM united have that can pass creatively and successfully now that Carrick is injured. Despite being 40 there are many more other players who should be shifted before Giggs (Welbeck, Young, Anderson, Cleverly, Valencia) Then countless reserve players who have been lingering around far to long.

United fans are turning on the manager because he has regressed the PL holders and there looks to be no sign of improvement or positivity. He doesn;t even know his best 11 ffs

Just shows how van persie is a bit miss for ya's, sure he pulled ye through games last year. any team that loses there star player do not play as good.

Demosthenese

United midfield are as average as i've seen it in years. Fellaini and Giggs, one not up to it and one past it and was never a centre mid in the first place. Maybe all those who were crying out for Kagawa for an age will quiten down and bit cos he was extremely quiet.

That said, Evertons goalmouth lead a charmed life at times and as we all know SAF's United would have found a goal.

Wouldn't push the crisis button as such. One big signing in the midfield for xmas could change the team alot.

The_Kew_Tour

Welbeck missed a open goal.

A ****ing open goal.

Please take a seat on the bench with Valencia son.

FatherTed

I was all for giving Moyes time, being patient and not bash him like Fergie requested fans not to. And I know a lot of people say it took Fergie a good number of years to get it right before we won the Prem. But Moyes is not in that situation. He inherited a team who won the Prem by 11 points last year, an experienced team with loads of CL experience. But look where we are now. Absolutely shocking to see what this team has become.

jank

Timmyctc wrote: »

[/B]

What a BS post

United fans (the sensible ones anyways) gave out, and rightly so, about teams lke City and Chelsea, who were smalltime, got a cash injection and sacked manager after manager because success wasn't instant. This club the premier league champions don't have a right to win games, but the fact a new manager is incapable of winning games with the team is simply poor. there is no two ways around it. Clearly you don't watch many united games and didnt watch today. Giggs is the only CM united have that can pass creatively and successfully now that Carrick is injured. Despite being 40 there are many more other players who should be shifted before Giggs (Welbeck, Young, Anderson, Cleverly, Valencia) Then countless reserve players who have been lingering around far to long.

United fans are turning on the manager because he has regressed the PL holders and there looks to be no sign of improvement or positivity. He doesn;t even know his best 11 ffs

If you are OK with a 40 year old man being the fulcum of the United CM than fair enough... it may be the reason you are 12 points behind Arsenal now.

bullvine

not all performances last year were bad. city away was one of the best in years as was chelsea away. united have not played well even once this season.

Eathrin

4th place. I'd take it.

mada999

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Just saw the game. Midfield was horrendous. Fellani wud not even get on Evertons team now. Can any utd fan tell me it would be acceptable to keep moyes if we finish outside the top four? Imo if top 4 is in real doubt at xmas the january transfer window might not even save him.

Acceptable?! you are missing your top scorer from last year. Why not blame the man utd board and owners for not splashing the cash in the summer?! you have to remember that a lot of teams strengthened in the summer

Thatsfootball

There were alot of problems, and performance is an issue. But one thing that's concerning is the amount of late goals being conceded. Looking at the last 10 mins of games that is, Soton, Everton etc. all add up over the season.

As someone said earlier, a lot was said about Carrick and what would happen if he got injured and now we're finding out. Ideally Fellaini would be an equal replacement, but that hasn't happened so far.

CM needs investment, and I think there will be signings.

Moyes still needs a season at minimum. In the past 2 seasons, Ferguson's team lost at Everton, and threw away a 2 goal lead to arguably cost them the title.

Hulk Hands

Of course we'll have any number of outsiders in having their say on today's game even though they didn't watch it. United fans having their opinion either way is fair enough. The rest can fcuk off

Giruilla

Obvious to say but if Evras header went in I think united would have easily won the game and this thread would be very different right now.

That said, Uniteds football tonight was embarassing for a home team.
Moyes wants to play wide football, but if your going to do that against a pressing high possesion team - which without a doubt everton now are - you need decent crossers such as Coleman. Valencia's standard of delivery is just shocking.. either a) constant outswingers landing beyong the penalty spot or b) a low ball lashed at the first centre back.