Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Whatsisname

Can we please for the love of god see Valencia and Welbeck dropped for the weekend now?

Thatsfootball

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Welbeck missed a open goal.

A ****ing open goal.

Please take a seat on the bench with Valencia son.

Agreed, pity it wasn't Rooney/Hernandez with that chance.

Also, individual mistakes have been a big part. For the goal, a needless FK was given away because we tried to pass it out of the back earlier. Then the ball rolled across the box - poor communication.

kippy

It amazes me to see people writing the league off at this stage to be honest. Pure daft. Either theyve just arrived from another planet or have never watched or read about any of the past 30 or 40 years of top flight soccer in England.
There are even a few saying nothing will change between now and the end of the season. Get a grip.

Whatsisname

kippy wrote: »

It amazes me to see people writing the league off at this stage to be honest. Pure daft. Either theyve just arrived from another planet or have never watched or read about any of the past 30 or 40 years of top flight soccer in England.
There are even a few saying nothing will change between now and the end of the season. Get a grip.

I think its more so, that theres been absolutely no indication that anything will change from now and the end of the season.

kippy

Whatsisname wrote: »

I think its more so, that theres been absolutely no indication that anything will change from now and the end of the season.

Thats the most defeatest, illogical and dare I say juvenile attitude one can havevwhen it comes to sport.

Lord TSC

Whatsisname wrote: »

I think its more so, that theres been absolutely no indication that anything will change from now and the end of the season.

This.
14 games into the league, people are thinking maybe it's a pattern and not just a blip.

kippy

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

This.
14 games into the league, people are thinking maybe it's a pattern and not just a blip.

Eh......injured players.... out of form players......individual errors......learning curve.......jan transfer window......fixture list.......no one thinks that these can work for and against you as a season progresses.

Its a seriously small picture outlook a lot seem to have at the moment.

bucketybuck

kippy wrote: »

There are even a few saying nothing will change between now and the end of the season. Get a grip.

Why do you think it WILL change?

You must have a few details, what is it that makes you think, "oh boy, its all about to click and our performances will improve!".

Come on, lets hear it, because I would love to know why you think that.

Paul Tergat

Was Welbeck not having to stretch backwards just to reach the ball?

Mars Bar

That second half was sickening. When the ball hit the crossbar, I knew it wasn't our evening.

Fellaini started the game well but he was terrible in the second half. McCarthy walked through the midfield. We really missed Jones in there.
Lots of fans around me want to see Danny gone.

Lord TSC

While I give you that injuries can cause problems, we weren't exactly doing marvelously before Carrick and RVP got hurt. People give out about the fixture list, but when easy runs of games came up, we didn't cover ourselves in glory. You want me to see what happens in the January window, but the summer one has left me seeing no reason to show faith that it will cause any improvements. Meanwhile, you ignore poor team selections, poor subs, poor tactical decisions.

You can give out about "small pictures", but maybe its more a case that the constant list of excuses has grown too long now...

ElChe32

Mars Bar wrote: »

That second half was sickening. When the ball hit the crossbar, I knew it wasn't our evening.

Fellaini started the game well but he was terrible in the second half. McCarthy walked through the midfield. We really missed Jones in there.
Lots of fans around me want to see Danny gone.

Danny has regressed from the promise he first showed and his successful loan at Sunderland. Moyes has to be ruthless in January and the Summer..providing he makes the top 4...

Al Capwned

Obviously its hard to say, but if any one of the Howard saves, or the woodwork strikes goes in, then I reckon we go on to win.

I'm struggling to stay positively behind the manager, and I've to agree with the thoughts of others that CL qualification is the absolute bare minimum that should be expected.


Edit - Also Welbeck has been nothing short of woeful for us for a long time... As has Valencia. Both are not good enough.

comewatmay

Why was rafael subbed off and Valencia put to rb?

He fell asleep for the goal that cost us the game. Unless he was injured it was a terrible decision by moyes

titan18

Trilla wrote: »

Milan, Juve, Barca etc have had spells like this and worse and attracted decent signings

Who's a serious and realistic target right now? I can see Cabaye and Baines being signed.

Hopefully not, would rather get some loan signings in with an option to buy at the end of the season.

Coentrao instead of Baines, rumours (probably crap) that Pedro might be available in January. Unless there's a chance at someone actually worth signing, would rather short term deals to help get back into the top 4

titan18

kippy wrote: »

It amazes me to see people writing the league off at this stage to be honest. Pure daft. Either theyve just arrived from another planet or have never watched or read about any of the past 30 or 40 years of top flight soccer in England.
There are even a few saying nothing will change between now and the end of the season. Get a grip.

Do you think we'll get 60+ points from the next 24 games? It's possible, but extremely unlikely that we manage that

NIMAN

Pedro from Barca?

You've no chance.

kippy

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why do you think it WILL change?

You must have a few details, what is it that makes you think, "oh boy, its all about to click and our performances will improve!".

Come on, lets hear it, because I would love to know why you think that.

See earlier post and numerous examples from the past of teams turning things round.

kippy

titan18 wrote: »

Do you think we'll get 60+ points from the next 24 games? It's possible, but extremely unlikely that we manage that

Mightnt need 60 points from those games.....teams have come from 12 points down at later stages in the season than this and won the league.....

kippy

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

While I give you that injuries can cause problems, we weren't exactly doing marvelously before Carrick and RVP got hurt. People give out about the fixture list, but when easy runs of games came up, we didn't cover ourselves in glory. You want me to see what happens in the January window, but the summer one has left me seeing no reason to show faith that it will cause any improvements. Meanwhile, you ignore poor team selections, poor subs, poor tactical decisions.

You can give out about "small pictures", but maybe its more a case that the constant list of excuses has grown too long now...

I dont ignore anything. Thats all part of the 'form' and learning curve I mentioned.
You follow a club for 30 odd years. There is a bigger picture than knee jerk reactions after 4 months of a brand new manager and structure at the club.

titan18

NIMAN wrote: »

Pedro from Barca?

You've no chance.

More than likely, but being "reported" he wants to leave (more than likely bs), but would take him

kippy wrote: »

Mightnt need 60 points from those games.....teams have come from 12 points down at later stages in the season than this and won the league.....

How many teams have won the PL with less than 80 points? That's why we'll need 60+ points.

Rayne Wooney

Where's the admiration for Welbz that was here after the Swansea game?

We've played almost every team twice and we're 9th, we've got 5 points from the top 6 teams last year.

When you look at the table now you can see it's already taking shape with Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, City, Spurs and Everton making the top 6.


Now is the time to panic.

Backstreet Moyes

I will bang my head against the wall the next time i hear somebody defending Valencia because of his defensive work.

I am not going to try make excuses just some observations.

Last season Ferdinand, Carrick and RVP were fantastic and the spine of the team. So far this season none of them have performed well at all through injuries and poor form. Rafael has been injured and Evra has went back to his poor form of old.

It's hard at the moment when most teams we play are superior in midfield it makes things difficult. Looking at the options besides Carrick(injured) and Fellaini(horribly out of form our options are very poor. Anderson, Cleverley, Giggs and Jones are lower league cm standard.

Wellbeck, Cleverley, Valencia, Young, Buttner and Anderson don't have the quality to be United regulars. The fact is massive investment is needed in the midfield. I mean massive investment.

Devil08

If you compare our midfield to barca or Madrid or Bayern, teams we should be competing with player for player, we are shocking.
In the last few years these teams have progressed fantastically and we have gone backwards so much. Sad to see.
Why can't we sign a world class midfielder for so long now!!!!

GSPfan

As of today I am throwing all my support behind Arsenals title challenge.

And this might seem odd but If we are not gonna finish in the top 4 I hope its a complete disaster and we finish 10th and maybe that will shock a reaction out of the Glazers.

I don't want Moyes gone now but these next two months are a big test for him. If we reach March and we are in a similar or worse position then he may get the boot before the years end.

Al Capwned

Might seem odd?
Might??

How in the name of Jaysus does that idea even make sense? No offence mate, but you're either a United fan or you're not.

Bleating Lamb

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Where's the admiration for Welbz that was here after the Swansea game?

We've played almost every team twice and we're 9th, we've got 5 points from the top 6 teams last year.

When you look at the table now you can see it's already taking shape with Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, City, Spurs and Everton making the top 6.


Now is the time to panic.

........sadly it's not the time to panic....all and I mean ALL Man Utd fans who have followed the club for 4 years or 30 in my case have to REALISE that we overachieved last season thru Fergies good man management and other clubs inadequacies(ESP CITY) to win league.
Our league position reflects teams ability,Moyes(or the board) were v poor in summer transfer market.....we didn't keep up with other clubs with title aspirations.......hence we are where we are!!!!!!!!!

Spanish Johnny

From an outside perspective (Arsenal fan) just a few thoughts with absolutely no stirring.

Replacing Ferguson was going to be a nigh on impossible task. It's proving that way particularly as the aura of invincibility at OT is gone (but not for us apparently):(

Anyway from here the United squad looked before this to be in need of regeneration. The excellent management of Ferguson and RVP's performances last year papered over a lot of cracks. I couldn't believe some of the results ye pulled off last year having watched the games. Very hard to replicate.

I understand Moyes must take some blame for not getting in what he needed but he was left in a dodgy position to do so. I look at that midfield now and I think how did we not roll all over ye at OT it is that limited - especially without Carrick.

Injuries this season are not helping. Rafael, Carrick and RVP are three of United's best players. Injuries happen I know but these are critical ones.

I follow this thread a bit out of interest and the amount of posters who rate Kagawa as some saviour like AM surprises me. I think he is classy, immense talent but he has had chances and maybe Moyes is right not throwing him in every game like people are demanding.

Moyes needed momentum and confidence at the start. Didn't happen due to injuries, some difficult fixtures at the start and of course some of it stems from his own mistakes. Remember there is a reason he got this job - because he has ability. He needs time.

Do the majority of United fans want to start firing managers like Chelsea and City in pursuit of instant gratification with trophies here and there or do they place a special emphasis on continuing to build on the great club they have and its traditions and waiting a bit longer for that success?

From an Arsenal perspective I 'hate' ye! Of any team I wish we beat ye more than any. I even took delight in the result tonight nearly more than Chelsea's even though it affected us more. That's what Ferguson has built. I do however respect ye. I can accept losing the title to United in a way that's easier than to lose it to City or Chelsea given their construct.

There's no shame in not winning every year - I know that better than most. I love supporting Arsenal and I would love nothing more than Wenger win a league title before he goes. Not for success' sake but for the principals, ethos, patience and class he and the Club have represented to this point. It's something rare in football and United have it and I hope it's not thrown away in this plastic era. Football will be the worse for it.

KH25

I was out so I missed the game. Can anyone give me a summary of how we played? Obviously disappointed with the result.

fergiesfolly

GSPfan wrote: »

As of today I am throwing all my support behind Arsenals title challenge.

And this might seem odd but If we are not gonna finish in the top 4 I hope its a complete disaster and we finish 10th and maybe that will shock a reaction out of the Glazers.

I don't want Moyes gone now but these next two months are a big test for him. If we reach March and we are in a similar or worse position then he may get the boot before the years end.

GunnersSupportingPisstakingfan?
I thought Moyes was the right appointment and I'll stand by that.
This season might be a complete disaster, but I'd still give him 2+ seasons to build his own team and mould it as he sees fit before jettisoning him.
We went looking for him. He deserves a fair shot at it.

Will I support or back ANY other club while we're struggling?
Will I feck.

J. Marston

Al Capwned wrote: »

Might seem odd?
Might??

How in the name of Jaysus does that idea even make sense? No offence mate, but you're either a United fan or you're not.

Odd? The man has the right idea. We all knew this show would come to an end sometime. I'm hoppin' on Arsenal bandwagon!

Joking.....for now!

Your Airbag

Spanish Johnny wrote: »

From an outside perspective (Arsenal fan) just a few thoughts with absolutely no stirring.

Replacing Ferguson was going to be a nigh on impossible task. It's proving that way particularly as the aura of invincibility at OT is gone (but not for us apparently):(

Anyway from here the United squad looked before this to be in need of regeneration. The excellent management of Ferguson and RVP's performances last year papered over a lot of cracks. I couldn't believe some of the results ye pulled off last year having watched the games. Very hard to replicate.

This is very true. We were hemorrhaging goals like nobodys business during our start and RVP individually won us about 12 points with some magic displays. It really flattered us. This season our average players are still getting into the starting 11 and some of our best performers have not been on top form. The "this is a side that won the title by 11 points" is not a accurate standpoint, only for RVP's displays during that bad start we would have been in trouble.

This is not an excuse for Moyes as many said it during the start the our averageness was being exposed and was it not for RVP we were in trouble. Many times it was said if he and Carrick got injured we had an average side. Well they are both injured now and we look off the top team pace, although tonight we were extremely unlucky.

Moyes needs about 5-6 players at least, he hasn't built a side yet. He'll get another season but now we need to get to a top four finish and to try pick up a cup along the way and give a good UCL account of ourselves.

I still don't think we are out of it. Mid January we can make that call, Arsenal have some tough Christmas fixtures and we are not miles off 2nd.

GSPfan

Al Capwned wrote: »

Might seem odd?
Might??

How in the name of Jaysus does that idea even make sense? No offence mate, but you're either a United fan or you're not.

We are not winning the league so better Arsenal than Chelsea or City.

Also ......

I think finishing 5th or higher will see Moyes keep his job. I think finishing 6th or lower will put him in jeopardy. So if we if are to miss out on the top 4 spots I would rather we finish 10th and Moyes will certainly be sacked. I would hate him to keep his job if we don't get top 4.

I don't claim to be a fanatic about United. To be honest when I turned about 25 I became detached to worshiping multi millionaires playing football and just enjoyed it for the sport it is. At the moment I am not enjoying it at all. I pay money to watch sport on tv and sometimes at events and just like a trip to the cinema I expect a certain quality of product for my money. If that is not produced I'm entitled to be disgruntled.

How Soon Is Now

http://www.abload.de/img/moyesisdead42de2.gif

well I taught this was funny.......

Giggsy11

Mars Bar wrote: »

That second half was sickening. When the ball hit the crossbar, I knew it wasn't our evening.

Fellaini started the game well but he was terrible in the second half. McCarthy walked through the midfield. We really missed Jones in there.
Lots of fans around me want to see Danny gone.

Fellaini was good yesterday. He was 1 man midfield and was outnumbered everytime. He did really well defensively. Should have played someone like Anderson with him.

Giggsy11

Devil08 wrote: »

If you compare our midfield to barca or Madrid or Bayern, teams we should be competing with player for player, we are shocking.
In the last few years these teams have progressed fantastically and we have gone backwards so much. Sad to see.
Why can't we sign a world class midfielder for so long now!!!!

Player to player we have better midfielders than Everton but there is so much difference in both teams played. Something to do with manager IMO.

Jimmy Iovine

Mars Bar wrote: »

Lots of fans around me want to see Danny gone.

I'd question the knowledge of quite a lot of them. Every game Nani has played this season they have moaned their heads off. The only bad thing about that seat.

Giggsy11

Rooney is out for Newcastle game and RVP might be out as well. Very tricky fixture with Carrick, Rooney and RVP not available.

Would love to see this team starting.

De Gea

Rafael Evans Vidic Evra

Fellaini/Jones Anderson

Nani Kagawa Januzaj

Hernandez

I know Jones was very good playing as CM but Fellaini was also impressive with no one providing him any support in the midfield. We need a midfielder who can bring the ball forward and IMO Anderson is the best CM we have for that role. Not sure why he is not getting any mins while Cleverley keeps on getting mins even though he does nothing.

After watching previous selection I think this is how we would line up.

De Gea

Smalling Rio Vidic Evra

Jones Cleverely

Valencia Fellaini Kagawa

Welbeck

Or Young in place of Kagawa.

Mitch Connor

Painful viewing again from United.

Moyes hs done absolutely nothing so far to suggest I was wrong to be annoyed at his appointment.

As Daniel Taylor said last night - Everton have improved under Martinez and United have got worse under Moyes.

Damning.

bullvine

Surely a defeat on Saturday will mean the end for Moyes. I cant think of a single positive from this season.

Nolars

5 pts off 4th now ya? id iamgine he has to get a top 4 finish this season thats the minimum fans expect. if we are 9/10 odd points off 4th come January id imagine he will be gone.

tallaghtmick

I really hate the "you're not a real fan" arguement on here, anyone else think that should be a cardable offence?

Lord TSC

kippy wrote: »

I dont ignore anything. Thats all part of the 'form' and learning curve I mentioned.
You follow a club for 30 odd years. There is a bigger picture than knee jerk reactions after 4 months of a brand new manager and structure at the club.

It's not a knee jerk reaction, and I'm getting really tired of that line of argument at this stage.

Ironically, I wasn't as against Moyes appointment as others. I wasn't sure about it but when it happened, I accepted it and even grew excited about the new era dawning. But there was plenty of people who were horrified by the appointment, and who outlined quite a few reasons they were fearful. And now, six months on, every one of those fears have come true.

People can come up with every excuse they can, and I think I've seen every excuse possible, but the simple fact is that Moyes has somehow managed to fall short of the low expectations that were set by him at the beginning of the season.

And thus far, he has shown absolutely no sign that what he needs is time. Once again I point out, a lot of people are defending Moyes by saying he has to have time, without actually providing any real reason why Moyes himself deserves that time.

At this stage, I've lost all faith in him. I don't believe he's the right man for the job, and that's based on too many factors which simply will not improve in time if they have shown no signs of improving now. Its not a "kneejerk reaction"; it's been a gradual souring of my opinion, it's been a gradual sickening of what he's doing to the team. Its seeing no signs of progression and several signs of regression, and as a fan, I don't want to see Moyes destroy in a year what took decades to build up. It's not a kneejerk reaction; it's reaching the end of a tether.

---

Something I've noticed with all the non-United fans who come in and comment are they are acting as if United has dropped down from 1st to top 4, and are talking as if United fans are upset because we think we should be winning the league and are instead having to settle for third or forth. They are commenting on just the results, while ignoring the long list of other complaints people have as well (poor subs, poor team selections, poor transfer windows, bad PR, etc). So no offence to those people who want to give their opinion, but for a lot of non-fans it's not a hugely educated one.

---

EDIT: And I agree 100% with Tallaghtmick as well; these subtle "If you were a real fan, you'd support him" line bugs me as well. Its not being a fan to support a manager no matter what; it's being a blind fanboy, and is a very dangerous route to go down as a club. Not saying everyone defending him is dangerous in that sense, but again, there are a lot of people who seem to want to support Moyes not because of HIS ability but because he is the United manager and they have to defend him no matter what.

Nolars

tallaghtmick wrote: »

I really hate the "you're not a real fan" arguement on here, anyone else think that should be a cardable offence?

haha yea. I'd love to know tho what the time frame is on when we are allowed to freak out or do they know that themselves?

tallaghtmick

Nolars wrote: »

haha yea. I'd love to know tho what the time frame is on when we are allowed to freak out or do they know that themselves?

The real fans will let us know

kippy

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

It's not a knee jerk reaction, and I'm getting really tired of that line of argument at this stage.

Ironically, I wasn't as against Moyes appointment as others. I wasn't sure about it but when it happened, I accepted it and even grew excited about the new era dawning. But there was plenty of people who were horrified by the appointment, and who outlined quite a few reasons they were fearful. And now, six months on, every one of those fears have come true.

People can come up with every excuse they can, and I think I've seen every excuse possible, but the simple fact is that Moyes has somehow managed to fall short of the low expectations that were set by him at the beginning of the season.

And thus far, he has shown absolutely no sign that what he needs is time. Once again I point out, a lot of people are defending Moyes by saying he has to have time, without actually providing any real reason why Moyes himself deserves that time.

At this stage, I've lost all faith in him. I don't believe he's the right man for the job, and that's based on too many factors which simply will not improve in time if they have shown no signs of improving now. Its not a "kneejerk reaction"; it's been a gradual souring of my opinion, it's been a gradual sickening of what he's doing to the team. Its seeing no signs of progression and several signs of regression, and as a fan, I don't want to see Moyes destroy in a year what took decades to build up. It's not a kneejerk reaction; it's reaching the end of a tether.

---

Something I've noticed with all the non-United fans who come in and comment are they are acting as if United has dropped down from 1st to top 4, and are talking as if United fans are upset because we think we should be winning the league and are instead having to settle for third or forth. They are commenting on just the results, while ignoring the long list of other complaints people have as well (poor subs, poor team selections, poor transfer windows, bad PR, etc). So no offence to those people who want to give their opinion, but for a lot of non-fans it's not a hugely educated one.

---

EDIT: And I agree 100% with Tallaghtmick as well; these subtle "If you were a real fan, you'd support him" line bugs me as well. Its not being a fan to support a manager no matter what; it's being a blind fanboy, and is a very dangerous route to go down as a club. Not saying everyone defending him is dangerous in that sense, but again, there are a lot of people who seem to want to support Moyes not because of HIS ability but because he is the United manager and they have to defend him no matter what.

Its kneejerk in the context of the significent changes that have taken place, the injuries and dire form some players have shown and in the context of the time required to settle for all concerned. As well as any other number of issues already mentioned.
Ill not defend him no matter what....he has made mistakes.....but he has a 6 year deal. Not six months.
Lads talking about being at the end of their tether, moyes out,united finished and any other number of apoclyptic expressions do have an extremely small picture view.

kippy

tallaghtmick wrote: »

The real fans will let us know

Time to freak out is this time next year.

Minimum.

tallaghtmick

kippy wrote: »

Its kneejerk in the context of the significent changes that have taken place, the injuries and dire form some players have shown and in the context of the time required to settle for all concerned. As well as any other number of issues already mentioned.
Ill not defend him no matter what....he has made mistakes.....but he has a 6 year deal. Not six months.
Lads talking about being at the end of their tether, moyes out,united finished and any other number of apoclyptic expressions do have an extremely small picture view.

Look at how Everton have progressed and we have regressed since he took over, its half way through the season and we're 8th! We should never be 8th regardless of a manager.

kippy

tallaghtmick wrote: »

I really hate the "you're not a real fan" arguement on here, anyone else think that should be a cardable offence?

Whos used that argument?

KH25

The league is over for us at this stage. I cannot see things magically turning around after Christmas. This was always going to be a bad season though, so Im not surprised.

At this stage I just want to see Moyes experiment with the team. Try different tactics and formations. Don't just revert to what is essentially 4-4-2. Players like Fabio and Zaha should be given a chance too. They can't perform any worse than the current lot.