Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Dicky Pride

It infuriates me when idiots say things like "man utd fans make me laugh..." We have absolutely every right to call for the manager's head...he has proven week after week that he's in over his head. His team selection, his activity in the transfer market, his dealings with the media, his excuses...all of this plus the fact that he has achieved nothing as a manager that qualified him to manage, arguably, the biggest club in the world. Ferguson's who wanted to hire a man that people would call his protege so he could continue to get praise in retirement. The fact is, like all the shocking transfers he made in his time as manager, ferguson made a mistake with his last "transfer" and the club is paying the price.

fergiesfolly

I think its only fair that the man gets a reasonable amount of time to build and mould a team. And 6 months is not it.
As said by other posters, this team relied heavily a small core of players, playing out of their skin last year, coupled with a season of inconsistency by our two main rivals.
The team and squad needs heavy investment and that should happen over the next 2 transfer windows.
Another season after that and we'll see whether he needs to be moved on or not.
I said a little over a year ago, that it was time for Ferguson to step aside, so I can hardly be called a fan boy.

IamtheWalrus

Dicky Pride wrote: »

It infuriates me when idiots say things like "man utd fans make me laugh..." We have absolutely every right to call for the manager's head...he has proven week after week that he's in over his head. His team selection, his activity in the transfer market, his dealings with the media, his excuses...all of this plus the fact that he has achieved nothing as a manager that qualified him to manage, arguably, the biggest club in the world. Ferguson's who wanted to hire a man that people would call his protege so he could continue to get praise in retirement. The fact is, like all the shocking transfers he made in his time as manager, ferguson made a mistake with his last "transfer" and the club is paying the price.

Too rash. Moyes is replacing a manager who was around for 26 years. He's 6 months into the job. Sacking Moyes now would be embarrassing.

bullvine

Manchester United have dropped 20 points in their 14 games this season. They dropped 25 in the whole of last season.

fergiesfolly

Dicky Pride wrote: »

It infuriates me when idiots say things like "man utd fans make me laugh..." We have absolutely every right to call for the manager's head...he has proven week after week that he's in over his head. His team selection, his activity in the transfer market, his dealings with the media, his excuses...all of this plus the fact that he has achieved nothing as a manager that qualified him to manage, arguably, the biggest club in the world. Ferguson's who wanted to hire a man that people would call his protege so he could continue to get praise in retirement. The fact is, like all the shocking transfers he made in his time as manager, ferguson made a mistake with his last "transfer" and the club is paying the price.

Did you ever call for Ferguson's head?

KH25

Dicky Pride wrote: »

It infuriates me when idiots say things like "man utd fans make me laugh..." We have absolutely every right to call for the manager's head...he has proven week after week that he's in over his head. His team selection, his activity in the transfer market, his dealings with the media, his excuses...all of this plus the fact that he has achieved nothing as a manager that qualified him to manage, arguably, the biggest club in the world. Ferguson's who wanted to hire a man that people would call his protege so he could continue to get praise in retirement. The fact is, like all the shocking transfers he made in his time as manager, ferguson made a mistake with his last "transfer" and the club is paying the price.

I don't think we should be calling for his head yet. True, results have been crap and performances dire but it has been a big change for the club. Moyes deserves at least this season and probably next season too. The team he was given had a lot of flaws that Fergie managed to cover up. We have been calling for investment in midfield for years and Moyes actually bought one. Whether he was the right buy we'll have to wait and see. But he deserves a chance to build his own team at the least. The team needs a revamp regardless of who does it.

tallaghtmick

kippy wrote: »

Whos used that argument?

A few posters over the last few months, I'm in work so don't have the time to go back but if you look back over the last day you should see it mentioned once or twice, Also I seen one rather annoyed poster tell another to "go support the team in Blue"

Dicky Pride

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Too rash. Moyes is replacing a manager who was around for 26 years. He's 6 months into the job. Sacking Moyes now would be embarrassing.

I know that, and I also know that it won't happen...but can't people admit that it was a rash hiring in the first place? He took a championship winning team and turned them into a mid table team. If he wasn't friends with ferguson do people think we would have hired a manager who never won a trophy and his best achievement was a champions league place (where they were knocked out in the qualifiers)? No...we would have hired a proven winner.

For a club like man Utd to hire a work in progress as a manager is the embarrassment.

Nolars

bullvine wrote: »

Manchester United have dropped 20 points in their 14 games this season. They dropped 25 in the whole of last season.

If we got a world class manager we wudnt have dropped that amount of points. We needed someone with a big personality like Klopp to strike fear into the likes of welbeck

Soft Falling Rain

Dicky Pride wrote: »

It infuriates me when idiots say things like "man utd fans make me laugh..." We have absolutely every right to call for the manager's head...he has proven week after week that he's in over his head. His team selection, his activity in the transfer market, his dealings with the media, his excuses...all of this plus the fact that he has achieved nothing as a manager that qualified him to manage, arguably, the biggest club in the world. Ferguson's who wanted to hire a man that people would call his protege so he could continue to get praise in retirement. The fact is, like all the shocking transfers he made in his time as manager, ferguson made a mistake with his last "transfer" and the club is paying the price.

TBH I thought Moyes was getting things together in the last few weeks. I'm a Liverpool fan and I said last night in our own thread, in relation to our loss against Hull, that these kind of results are going to happen to every club looking for the top spots. You just have to hope that you minimise your own setbacks (though granted, I can understand the frustration of Man U fans because you must be feeling that you can't afford many more slip ups).

I still don't think though that Moyes should be sacked, he was always facing a serious challenge in his first season. I don't even think finishing outside the top 4 would be a sackable offence, maybe the manner of how it might happen though (for example, being out of the running with 2 months to go or something).

Nolars

Watching this would depress ya. He talks about Moyes in the first minute tho haha

Lord TSC

kippy wrote: »

Its kneejerk in the context of the significent changes that have taken place, the injuries and dire form some players have shown and in the context of the time required to settle for all concerned. As well as any other number of issues already mentioned.
Ill not defend him no matter what....he has made mistakes.....but he has a 6 year deal. Not six months.
Lads talking about being at the end of their tether, moyes out,united finished and any other number of apoclyptic expressions do have an extremely small picture view.

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Too rash. Moyes is replacing a manager who was around for 26 years. He's 6 months into the job. Sacking Moyes now would be embarrassing.

So once again, the arguement isn't "Moyes should stay because here is what Moyes brings to the table", but instead "Moyes should stay because he was given a 6 year contract and we don't want to embarrass ourselves". Nothing to do with Moyes personally. Could sub his name out for any other and the argument wouldn't change.

And "embarrassing"? Since when do we care what other teams think of us? Is the idea really that some fans would rather see the club tumble down the table rather than face "embarrassment" for calling a mistake a mistake and trying to rectify it? That's just stubbornness.

IamtheWalrus

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

So once again, the arguement isn't "Moyes should stay because here is what Moyes brings to the table", but instead "Moyes should stay because he was given a 6 year contract and we don't want to embarrass ourselves". Nothing to do with Moyes personally. Could sub his name out for any other and the argument wouldn't change.

And "embarrassing"? Since when do we care what other teams think of us? Is the idea really that some fans would rather see the club tumble down the table rather than face "embarrassment" for calling a mistake a mistake and trying to rectify it? That's just stubbornness.

The embarrassment would be the knee-jerk reaction. As I've said before on this board, I would have thought the owners would have expected a dip in the club's success when Fergie left, they surely must have expected a building period. Sacking Moyes would suggest they hadn't expected a dip, hence suggesting they don't know what they're doing. Every man and his dog expected the post-Fergie era to be tough initially.

This idea that Fergie 'hired his friend', sure weren't he and Jose practically bed-fellows?

Mitch Connor

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

The embarrassment would be the knee-jerk reaction. As I've said before on this board, I would have thought the owners would have expected a dip in the club's success when Fergie left, they surely must have expected a building period. Sacking Moyes would suggest they hadn't expected a dip, hence suggesting they don't know what they're doing. Every man and his dog expected the post-Fergie era to be tough initially.

This idea that Fergie 'hired his friend', sure weren't he and Jose practically bed-fellows?

I would imagine the dip they expected is not winning the league - not failing to qualify for the CL, which is what we are on course for if things don't change very quickly.

jonnyfingers

I think Moyes was chosen as the manager to stabalise a rocking ship. Ferguson leaving really shook things up and the club had a choice when it came to replacing him.

Option 1: go with the risky option of someone completely different to Ferguson who has a different footballing philosophy, someone who would change the footballing style and make plenty of changes to the squad.

Option 2: go with the slightly safer option for someone more like Ferguson, who might be able to continue the same level of success with the same players.

I think they went with option 2 and that's why Moyes was brought on board. Unfortunately I think that didn't really give him a chance as he seems to be keeping things too much the same as Ferguson, e.g. playing Valencia and Wellbeck, keeping similar tactics etc. I think now that results haven't gone his way, but now he doesn't have much to loose by branching out a bit and putting his own stamp on the club.

Now if the club had went with Option 1 and appointed a manager radically different to Ferguson who knows where we'd be now. We could easily be better or, or easily worse off. The only consolation is that if Moyes doesn't last in the job the club may go down that route eventually so we'll probably find out.

But right now I have full confidence that Moyes is no fool, he can see the problems in the team and I'm sure he'd love to replace some of the squad. As we've already said his summer transfer dealings were dire, but I think Woodward had a part to play in that. I'm really hoping he can pull a few signings out of the bag in January. Also the changes behind the scenes to training and youth development may take a few months to pay off. I'm giving Moyes the benefit of the doubt.

You never know, it could all come together and we might end up with a stable manager for another few decades.


P.S. The team needs more Zaha!

gracehopper

Nolars wrote: »

Watching this would depress ya. He talks about Moyes in the first minute tho haha

Can we have him please?

Irish94

People need to stop complaining about Moyes in the transfer window.

What the fúck did Fegurson do in the last 5 years? He never signed a CM, knowing we had a serious problem in the middle of the park.

Oh but wait, Moyes is shít because he tried to address the issue and was unable to sign a world class CM in his first transfer window.

Such horse shít.

jonnyfingers

gracehopper wrote: »

Can we have him please?

Kagawa would be delighted.

"Shinji, you vill pass ze ball to Rooney and he vill score."

Mitch Connor

Irish94 wrote: »

People need to stop complaining about Moyes in the transfer window.

What the fúck did Fegurson do in the last 5 years? He never signed a CM, knowing we had a serious problem in the middle of the park.

Oh but wait, Moyes is shít because he tried to address the issue and was unable to sign a world class CM in his first transfer window.

Such horse shít.

It doesn't matter what Ferguson did or did not do in the transfer market.

Moyes is now the United manager and the team/squad we have is now his responsibility.

Simple fact is that it should have been clear what was needed and which players were not needed - but Moyes wasted months doing seemingly feck all and then we scrambled round on deadline day like a black friday shopper just trying to buy SOMETHING.

He, and United, should have been far better prepared and worked a lot better in the summer.

bullvine

Its not a coincidence the current run is because Welbeck has returned from injury. If he plays on Saturday it will be the same again, hes that bad.. An absolute shocking professional footballer.

Mitch Connor

bullvine wrote: »

Its not a coincidence the current run is because Welbeck has returned from injury. If he plays on Saturday it will be the same again, hes that bad.. An absolute shocking professional footballer.

Absolutely rubbish.

Welbeck is not the reason we have done so badly domestically in the last 3 games.

Absolute rubbish.

IamtheWalrus

For many Utd supporters this is the only real period of adversity they've witnessed. You see other clubs hiring and firing managers whilst Utd fans watched and judged. But in reality, are Utd fans any different? Probably not.

Irish94

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It doesn't matter what Ferguson did or did not do in the transfer market.

Moyes is now the United manager and the team/squad we have is now his responsibility.

Simple fact is that it should have been clear what was needed and which players were not needed - but Moyes wasted months doing seemingly feck all and then we scrambled round on deadline day like a black friday shopper just trying to buy SOMETHING.

He, and United, should have been far better prepared and worked a lot better in the summer.

Fair enough.

I just don't understand why Moyes is getting a lot of hate for it, while only a minority would say the same about Fergie.

Not fair, in my opinion.

gracehopper

Irish94 wrote: »

Fair enough.

I just don't understand why Moyes is getting a lot of hate for it, while only a minority would say the same about Fergie.

Not fair, in my opinion.

To be fair to Moyes i think the wealth of attacking talent we have had with the succession of ronaldo, rooney and RVP have papered over the cracks that were there in Ferguson's team.

Mitch Connor

If I could see any hint of the pitch that what Moyes was planning was starting to take hold, and starting to click - I'd be fine.

For me the issue is that I don't see Moyes changing anything at United really. Our style of play is boring and predictable - get it wide and hoof it into the box. Has been the same in every game under Moyes.

Midfield is no better under him.
Defence is no better under him.

Rooney's performances are the ONLY positive thing of Moyes reign so far in terms of improvements. But at the same time we are seeing an out-of-sorts RVP and a barely used Hernandez.

Moyes is giving me nothing to put my faith in, no reason to get behind him.

The only reason I can see from people saying to support him is simply the fact that he is the United manager. For me, that simply isn't enough. Moyes needs to show some reason as to why he should be given time, and right now there are none. We are going backwards far quicker than I am sure any United fan thought we would or could.

SirDelboy18

Irish94 wrote: »

Fair enough.

I just don't understand why Moyes is getting a lot of hate for it, while only a minority would say the same about Fergie.

Not fair, in my opinion.

I imagine it's because Ferguson was able to perform miracles with this ill-equipped squad, and thus far, Moyes hasn't been able to replicate that.

So in essence, it's because he isn't Fergie.

gracehopper

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If I could see any hint of the pitch that what Moyes was planning was starting to take hold, and starting to click - I'd be fine.

For me the issue is that I don't see Moyes changing anything at United really. Our style of play is boring and predictable - get it wide and hoof it into the box. Has been the same in every game under Moyes.

Midfield is no better under him.
Defence is no better under him.

Rooney's performances are the ONLY positive thing of Moyes reign so far in terms of improvements. But at the same time we are seeing an out-of-sorts RVP and a barely used Hernandez.

Moyes is giving me nothing to put my faith in, no reason to get behind him.

The only reason I can see from people saying to support him is simply the fact that he is the United manager. For me, that simply isn't enough. Moyes needs to show some reason as to why he should be given time, and right now there are none. We are going backwards far quicker than I am sure any United fan thought we would or could.

I more or less agree with this. we are so predictable at the minute its not funny. I also suspect he is over training the squad. The last 20 minutes is usually our time to shine but how many goals have we conceded this year or how many chances have we missed or not been on the end of? I really do think the club should have insisted that the nucleus of the united back room team were kept for the first 2-3 difficult years. That was a mistake letting go of all that knowledge of the players. Winning is a habit. Bad mistake by the club.
Having said that, i think Moyes needs to be given time. We cannot build a dynasty by sacking managers every 5 minutes like the other toy clubs that play in the premier league.

Dicky Pride

If the people defending moyes could actually give me some reasons why he's doing a good job or why he might do a good job in the future id be less incredulous about this whole thing.

When is the last time a man Utd team was out of the running for a title in November?

We had a so called easy run of games recently and it ended disastrously.

Not playing zaha was strange. Persisting with giggs is madness. He got 90 minutes last night while wellbeck was taken off. Wellbeck has his problems, but he's fast and potentially dangerous. Giggs is fast becoming a liability.

Lord TSC

Irish94 wrote: »

What the fúck did Fegurson do in the last 5 years?

3 PL wins, two runner ups. 2 league cup wins. 2 finals in the CL.

Seriously, people who want to defend Moyes need to work out if they do or do not want Fergie's shadow being cast over him in such discussions, rather than trying to compare him to Fergie some times, and then calling for Fergie to be banned from the stadium at others....

Mitch Connor

Irish94 wrote: »

Fair enough.

I just don't understand why Moyes is getting a lot of hate for it, while only a minority would say the same about Fergie.

Not fair, in my opinion.

Plenty bitched about Fergie and his midfield blindspot - a particular issue when it came to our european failures.

Domestically though, the simple fact is that Fergie got the results. When you either win the league or come close it is hard to be too critical.

Moyes isn't getting the results - and the results we do get are generally what we have deserved to get, apart from last night I think - we didn't deserve to lose that one.

Moyes is getting the hate because 1/3rd the way through the season we are 12 points off the title and, more importantly, 5 points off 4th spot.

SlickRic

he said he'd have taken a draw before the game, after the game at Cardiff.

that says it all about just how much he needs to learn.

eagle eye

Imo the problem at United right now is central defense. There is no pace there it seems and as a result you won't see as many players getting forward the way United have done for years because they are afraid to get caught out of position and be responsible for a goal being scored against them.

bucketybuck

Irish94 wrote: »

Fair enough.

I just don't understand why Moyes is getting a lot of hate for it, while only a minority would say the same about Fergie.

Not fair, in my opinion.

Its an uninformed opinion. Any regular in these superthreads knows that many people spent the last five/six transfer windows bitching constantly about Fergies lack of action regarding our midfield problems.

Fergie ****ed up, but he didn't get a free pass about it, it was pointed out repeatedly.

adox

I think its time for Moyes to go.

bullvine

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Absolutely rubbish.

Welbeck is not the reason we have done so badly domestically in the last 3 games.

Absolute rubbish.

I can't agree, its a huge reason, might as well be playing with ten men hes so awful.

Irishcrx

Dire last night that's all I can say. Didn't even get annoyed this time at the end of the game just felt utterly dejected.

The team looks all over the place at the minute, we need to buy some quality and that's the bottom line.

Ikay Gundogan? Thoughts?...I think he'd be good for us, he can attack , defend , pass has a bit between his teeth.

Lord TSC

bullvine wrote: »

I can't agree, its a huge reason, might as well be playing with ten men hes so awful.

And the games we underpreformed in when Welbeck wasn't playing?

Mitch Connor

Irishcrx wrote: »

Dire last night that's all I can say. Didn't even get annoyed this time at the end of the game just felt utterly dejected.

The team looks all over the place at the minute, we need to buy some quality and that's the bottom line.

Ikay Gundogan? Thoughts?...I think he'd be good for us, he can attack , defend , pass has a bit between his teeth.

Gundogan would be a FANTASTIC signing - but...

I don't see Dortmund wanting to sell in January.
I don't see him pushing for a move in January.
Have heard Madrid and Barca want him.
Have heard he wants to join one of the spanish 2.

Reckon we will go for Nemanja Matic.

jonnyfingers

Dicky Pride wrote: »

If the people defending moyes could actually give me some reasons why he's doing a good job or why he might do a good job in the future id be less incredulous about this whole thing.

When is the last time a man Utd team was out of the running for a title in November?

We had a so called easy run of games recently and it ended disastrously.

Not playing zaha was strange. Persisting with giggs is madness. He got 90 minutes last night while wellbeck was taken off. Wellbeck has his problems, but he's fast and potentially dangerous. Giggs is fast becoming a liability.

There are a few things we can see from the outside.

1. I think he has handled the Rooney situation from the summer very well and Rooney has been by far our best player.

2. He has identified areas of the squad that need improvement, but unfortunately has not been able to address that properly yet. As I've said previously I'm not sure how much blame I can put on him for that yet, lets see what happens in January.

3. He has eased Januzaj into the team, rather than either not playing him at all, or playing him every game.

4. We've gotten out of our group in the Champions League, and have look fairly comfortable.


There may me many positives behind the scenes that we can't see from the outside. We've all probably read the article about how meticulous Moyes is in analysing teams and player performance, and how he identifies transfer targets. That's a long term strategy and it's way too soon to see any benefit of that.

We can't see how training and youth development are going, but there may be some positives there.

I agree that not playing Zaha is strange, but maybe Moyes feels he's not ready yet. He has been playing Januzaj so we can't claim that Moyes doesn't trust youth, so there must be some reason.


I'd counter your argument and ask the "Moyes Out" brigade to give some reasons why changing the manager now would improve things?

The only positive I'd see is that a "big name" manager might attract better talent in the transfer window. But the chances are he'll have mostly the same squad of players, including Valencia, Giggs, Anderson et al. However the club and players would be more unsettled due to another managerial change. Anything that's going on in the background transfer related will be shook up, possibly leading to indecision. There would be another change in backroom staff.

So what would improve immediately by changing the manager now?

DrumSteve

I must admit, as a pool fan, watching united at the moment reminds me of when Hodgson was with us.

mitosis

gracehopper wrote: »

I more or less agree with this. we are so predictable at the minute its not funny. I also suspect he is over training the squad. The last 20 minutes is usually our time to shine but how many goals have we conceded this year or how many chances have we missed or not been on the end of? I really do think the club should have insisted that the nucleus of the united back room team were kept for the first 2-3 difficult years. That was a mistake letting go of all that knowledge of the players. Winning is a habit. Bad mistake by the club.
Having said that, i think Moyes needs to be given time. We cannot build a dynasty by sacking managers every 5 minutes like the other toy clubs that play in the premier league.

You were going well until you trotted out that shyt. There is no doubt a new manager should be given time, at least a season to impart his philosophies and methods.

Lord TSC

jonnyfingers wrote: »

I'd counter your argument and ask the "Moyes Out" brigade to give some reasons why changing the manager now would improve things?

So what would improve immediately by changing the manager now?

For me, it wouldn't be about immediate improvements; it would be about stabilizing the club and stopping the regression that's occurring under Moyes leadership. It would be a step towards saying "We got this appointment wrong and want to make amends". A new manager, especially one with some proper credentials, coming in would hopefully try and implement a more positive approach to how United are playing, would not only identify problem areas but actually move to improve them in a more meaningful way. He would attempt to motivate the players who won the league last year to do more than be 9th halfway through the season, rather than instructing them to kick back on a 1-0 lead after 15 minutes.

So, yeah....ironically, I think a different manager might be more capable of stabilizing the ship. And I'm sure some will have great fun trying to counter that arguement :P

IamtheWalrus

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

"We got this appointment wrong and want to make amends"

It's impossible for the club to know thus far, that they've gotten it wrong.

Mitch Connor

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

For me, it wouldn't be about immediate improvements; it would be about stabilizing the club and stopping the regression that's occurring under Moyes leadership. It would be a step towards saying "We got this appointment wrong and want to make amends". A new manager, especially one with some proper credentials, coming in would hopefully try and implement a more positive approach to how United are playing, would not only identify problem areas but actually move to improve them in a more meaningful way. He would attempt to motivate the players who won the league last year to do more than be 9th halfway through the season, rather than instructing them to kick back on a 1-0 lead after 15 minutes.

So, yeah....ironically, I think a different manager might be more capable of stabilizing the ship. And I'm sure some will have great fun trying to counter that arguement :P

What manager though?

We have missed the boat with Jose and Pep.

I would imagine Klopp would be top of the wanted list, but getting him would be another matter I suppose.

After those 3, I would struggle for a standout candidate.

I imagine we'd then need to be looking at up and coming managers with a style of play we want - Laudrup, Pochettino maybe? At least they want to play attacking football.

newballsplease

Wasnt there a rumour that Zaha was with Moyes's daughter?
Hence him not getting a run out.

Think it came out after community shield.

niallo27

DrumSteve wrote: »

I must admit, as a pool fan, watching united at the moment reminds me of when Hodgson was with us.

Ah it's not that bad.

Mitch Connor

newballsplease wrote: »

Wasnt there a rumour that Zaha was with Moyes's daughter?
Hence him not getting a run out.

Think it came out after community shield.

It was utter bollix.

The reason, seemingly, is that Zaha's application in training isn't what is required at United, and the staff feel he isn't ready yet. Plan was to settle him in Manchester and at the club for 6 months then look at a loan deal. Same plan we had for Powell before his injury/illness last season.

IamtheWalrus

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It was utter bollix.

The reason, seemingly, is that Zaha's application in training isn't what is required at United, and the staff feel he isn't ready yet. Plan was to settle him in Manchester and at the club for 6 months then look at a loan deal. Same plan we had for Powell before his injury/illness last season.

It'll be a bit odd if Zaha doesn't go out on loan in January.

intellectual dosser

While I think Moyes should be given until the end of the season at least, I'm surprised Sir Alex Ferguson hasn't been mentioned more this morning.

Currently 5/1, behind only Guardiola 3/1

jonnyfingers

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

For me, it wouldn't be about immediate improvements; it would be about stabilizing the club and stopping the regression that's occurring under Moyes leadership. It would be a step towards saying "We got this appointment wrong and want to make amends". A new manager, especially one with some proper credentials, coming in would hopefully try and implement a more positive approach to how United are playing, would not only identify problem areas but actually move to improve them in a more meaningful way. He would attempt to motivate the players who won the league last year to do more than be 9th halfway through the season, rather than instructing them to kick back on a 1-0 lead after 15 minutes.

So, yeah....ironically, I think a different manager might be more capable of stabilizing the ship. And I'm sure some will have great fun trying to counter that arguement :P

Well you can't really counter that argument because it's all hypothetical. Moyes was brought in to do that job, and so far things haven't worked out as we all would have liked. There is no guarantee that things would improve with a new manager. There is also no guarantee that things will improve with Moyes in charge.

However there's also no reason that things wouldn't drastically improve either way if the team suddenly kicks into gear.

So changing the manager is really just flipping a coin and hoping for the best. I don't think Moyes has been so bad that we've reached a point where things can only get better. If we had failed miserably in the Champions League and found ourselves in the relegation zone then I'd say we'd reached that point.
But right now we're through to the knockout stages of the Champions League and we're a few wins away from the top four.

The only way I could see changing manager working for this season would be to get someone who has a history of turning things around in a short amount of time. Someone like Gus Hiddink comes to mind. But for me he's a short term solution and not someone who will lead the club for years to come. So there's no real point in getting someone like that as we'd be in exactly the same boat in a year or two. If we go for anyone with a long term approach we probably won't see any change in the short term. So what's the point?