Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

RobertKK

Paper rumours are Young and Anderson will be gone in January.

Wouldn't miss either once we get in some midfield players. I really hope Jesse Lingard is brought back and put in the squad, so much better than Young and he scores goals, which is what we need our wingers doing.

Given Reus has a release clause, United should just go for it, offer him a deal he can't refuse, even if this means Kagawa goes in the opposite direction and maybe as part of a deal for Gundogan but that is most likely unrealistic.
We need more wingers who can score, Ashley Young is the biggest disaster as a winger.

Koke would be an excellent midfield option, but United would really have to throw money at Atletico for him, and maybe still not get him.

Matic and Banega are two more who are mentioned as well as Sneijder which probably means no midfielders will be signed.

If United sign Baines, then Evra can be a winger, he scores more goals than most of our wingers as it is.

Cantona's Collars

Woodward is a business man who's job has always been to make money not spend it,I feel he's still stuck in that mindset a bit but no matter our thoughts on him,I'd rather he was in charge than witnessing what went on at Liverpool where they were staring into the abyss for a while,things could have went really wrong for them.

January will be a make or break month for both him & Moyes if they are to change the playing personnel for some of quality.


On the game last night,I actually felt sorry for Fellaini,at one stage he was pleading with players to come back into position & help out as he was left to hold the fort in midfield on his own.As for Valencia,I'd sooner they had a draw before the game to let a fan play on the right wing than him at this stage.
If anybody else tries to defend Wellbeck by saying "the wing isn't his position" I'll lose it,he was presented with a chance when Howard was on the ground yet still couldn't score.

Before we'd look at fixtures and wonder how many we'd score,these days we wonder if we'll get a result.:(

homerjay2005

RobertKK wrote: »

Reus has a release clause, Gundogan
Koke would be an excellent midfield option,
Matic and Banega
Sneijder which probably means no midfielders will be signed.

realistically, seen as we couldnt sign one decent world class player in the summer, as champions, why on earth would these players sign for a team that is 9th in the league and playing muck?

i hope i am wrong though and we manage to pull something out of the bag. topping the cL group and a decent draw, with a league cup semi final, along with 5 wins between here and the window reopening would certainly help though.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

he did??? last i checked, he kept it in his bank account all summer like a penny penching **** and then panicked bought at 11.00 as the window closed. Unless of course you know more than i do about him...did he buy a new house/car...that round the world dash must have cost a fair few quid i guess....

"like a drunk, embarrassing Uncle at a wedding" was one quote that was written to describe him and it couldnt be more apt.



because this is an interview that is in the media this morning. your so obsessed with defending your buddy, its fantastic entertainment for us all.

23 minutes to reply though, you are slipping....normally you reply much quicker when i post about him. do keep up.

The part in bold is nothing more than laughable playground style slagging and not worth replying to.

Again you say things like "fantastic entertainment for us all" trying to convince yourself that you are some sort of spokesman for the forum and hold the popular opinon of Woodward on the thread. The last time you tried it with "We can agree Woodward is a clown now" you were roundly told you were speaking for yourself.

You say all he cares about is making money. Eh Newsflash, everyclub cares about this and its important to care about or there would be no club to support. You give them your money everytime you walk through the gates, when we stop caring about money we stop caring about the club, this is so basic it hardly needs to be explained but here you are having it explained to you.


Lets actually go through his statement and your reaction to it to see how silly your "point" is.

"If you fight hard and just fail, people will still watch you on television, still turn up and buy shirts," he said.

"There's still a lot of affinity with the club and interest. The reality is that you can't always win.

This is a simple fact. He is not saying he is happy to see us do bad but people will still turn because of the affinity with the club, nothing wrong with that. Simple fact.

"Take Liverpool. They still sell an incredible number of shirts and have the second biggest shirt deal in the Premier League.

"They have one of the biggest technical partner deals - and they haven't won the league since 1990. And you can put the last bit underlined and in capitals.

All true about Liverpool. Lets move on.

"If we have a bad year we have the financial strength to change the team. We have so much deeper financial strength that instead of selling three players and buying three, we can do five."

What he is saying here is incredibly positive. If we have a bad your the financial and sponsorship framework in place is so good and we are deeply secure in that aspect that we can instead of selling three and buying three players we can sell three and buy five, even if we have a bad year.

You have taken an article with simple facts and positive statements about how we could still operate if we have a bad year and turned it into Woodward is clueless, You are simply incapable of understanding the simple facts he stated and through your biased thought process took a simple artivle with nothing wrong in it and tried to turn it into Woodward is clueless and doesn't care about UTD.

The only person coming off as clueless is you if you can't understand what he said was positive and simple fact.

Shirt and ticket sales will continue, correct, you have no point there.

You call him penny pinching, he spent money, he tried to buy Baines also, Cesc, Kedhera so he tired to spend more than we did, you have no point here also

You also talked some nonesene about him buying a house or car or some other crap that has nothing to do with much except exosping the poor quality of your posting.

"like a drunk, embarrassing Uncle at a wedding" so you take an insult from a rag and this is some sort of validation of your opinion. Are you able to think for yourself? Every manager exec etc has been tagged as something or another in a rag at one point, using this to try and claim your silly opinion as true is laughable. Its like something we'd get from Dunphy and co


Given that he talks simple business facts about shirts sales and positives about us being able to cope even if its a bad year and you have no point on either and the penny pinching rubbish has been show to be complete rubbish and hou have no point there it leads to the question...............what exactly is the point your trying to make in relation to the article? do you even know? Doubtful given a complete inability to understand such a simple statement.

Try to respond with something better than the bolded childish rubbish next time when showed how he did try to spend, if your capable of doing so.

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this man really is a utter clueless ****. he has not got one iota about football, all he cares about is money.

as to how he got this job, ill never know. some of ye lads on here have more cop on than him. these are his comments about our current problems on the pitch.



so if we have the money, why didnt he f*cking spend it?

In fairness to him - i have read the full interviews in UWS this month and last month, and have no issues with what he is saying.

The piece is in direct relation to could United survive if they didn't make the CL this season. So shirt and TV talk is utterly relevant.

As for not spending the money, I didn't agree with his answers (you know my stance on the Fabregas issue) but the uo shot was: There was money to spend, we bid 'big' for certain players, but couldn't get the deals done and they would rather no spend on just anyone.

Woodward, imo, comes across very well in the first two parts of the UWS interview. Both well worth a read.

Mitch Connor

RobertKK wrote: »

Paper rumours are Young and Anderson will be gone in January.

Wouldn't miss either once we get in some midfield players. I really hope Jesse Lingard is brought back and put in the squad, so much better than Young and he scores goals, which is what we need our wingers doing.

Given Reus has a release clause, United should just go for it, offer him a deal he can't refuse, even if this means Kagawa goes in the opposite direction and maybe as part of a deal for Gundogan but that is most likely unrealistic.
We need more wingers who can score, Ashley Young is the biggest disaster as a winger.

Koke would be an excellent midfield option, but United would really have to throw money at Atletico for him, and maybe still not get him.

Matic and Banega are two more who are mentioned as well as Sneijder which probably means no midfielders will be signed.

If United sign Baines, then Evra can be a winger, he scores more goals than most of our wingers as it is.

Have watched a lot of Lingard - he isn't better than Young.

Would be shocked if he made it at United.

No problem with Anderson and Young being shunted out - as long as we bring in (much better) replacements.

bullvine

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In fairness to him - i have read the full interviews in UWS this month and last month, and have no issues with what he is saying.

The piece is in direct relation to could United survive if they didn't make the CL this season. So shirt and TV talk is utterly relevant.

As for not spending the money, I didn't agree with his answers (you know my stance on the Fabregas issue) but the uo shot was: There was money to spend, we bid 'big' for certain players, but couldn't get the deals done and they would rather no spend on just anyone.

Woodward, imo, comes across very well in the first two parts of the UWS interview. Both well worth a read.

Mitch, do you believe the Bale rumours? about the 100m bid.

SlickRic

oh, and I welcome you all to the reality of modern football.

should we sack him?
should we not?
Is he actually going to be any good?
Is he a spoofer?
when will we know for sure?
by what time should he win a trophy?
is it the players' fault?
is it the manager?

most of these questions didn't have to be answered by many of you for the last 20 years of you supporting your club. for many others, it's the first time you've really, seriously had to ask these questions. in fact, it's the first time you've ever felt as though you might be a bit bi-polar due to your reactions to everything. you're probably puzzled by all these new feelings.

this is only the start. believe me.

enjoy.

homerjay2005

Your Airbag wrote: »

The last time you tried it with "We can agree Woodward is a clown now" you were roundly told you were speaking for yourself.

was i...thats ok then, the view of 2 or 3 posters on an internet forum represent the thoughts of the entire population of United fans then?

I would be pretty confident that if 100 united fans were asked and answered honestly, if they had faith in Woodward (and that is putting it mildly), around 60%-70% at least of them would say no.

stop trying to pretend otherwise.

Your Airbag wrote: »

You call him penny pinching, he spent money, he tried to buy Baines also, Cesc, Kedhera so he tired to spend more than we did, you have no point here also

woopee....HE TRIED. next thing, he will put in a £250million bid for Messi and you will think demanding a knighthood for him. good grief man, TRYING isnt f*cking good enough.you really are a howl.

Cantona's Collars

How many players in the team have a winning mentality? Fergie managed to get a title win with this team but now he's not there to drive them on they've become lazy as if they had some divine right to win matches instead of earning results.

DDG,Vidic,Rooney,Giggs & even Januzaj are the only ones who spring to mind.The rest don't seem to care or put the effort in.Before the opposition used to dread the board going up for added time but now it's as if they are getting a bonus few minutes to snatch a result against us.
Even Carrick who's lauded as carrying the midfield never seems to get upset with his team mates for not pulling their weight or looks dejected after a bad result.Too many senior players are playing in their comfort zone and have lost that spark & fight that epitomises United.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

was i...thats ok then, the view of 2 or 3 posters on an internet forum represent the thoughts of the entire population of United fans then?

I would be pretty confident that if 100 united fans were asked and answered honestly, if they had faith in Woodward (and that is putting it mildly), around 60%-70% at least of them would say no.

stop trying to pretend otherwise.



woopee....HE TRIED. next thing, he will put in a £250million bid for Messi and you will think demanding a knighthood for him. good grief man, TRYING isnt f*cking good enough.you really are a howl.

It was more than 2 or 3 that thanked the post telling you that you were speaking for yourself.

You have come out this morning and taken a simple article talking fact and tried to use it against Woodward and looked a bit foolish in doing so. People have since said they have no problem with the article and what Woodward has said lately. This is your agenda not the forums opinion.

People are not as reactionary and willing to follow the lets paint him as a fool way of thinking because things aren't happening on the pitch. People are a bit more thoughful than that.

If you are so confident of your opinion about Woodward formed after ONE window and slating him based on basic statements, why don't you ask the question of how many people view him as the penny pinching fool that you do? Go ahead ask?


He tried. So you'll admit calling him penny pinching and asking why the f*ck doens't he spend some then was complete tosh?

He tired and did spend btw.

RobertKK

homerjay2005 wrote: »

realistically, seen as we couldnt sign one decent world class player in the summer, as champions, why on earth would these players sign for a team that is 9th in the league and playing muck?

i hope i am wrong though and we manage to pull something out of the bag. topping the cL group and a decent draw, with a league cup semi final, along with 5 wins between here and the window reopening would certainly help though.

I know, would need Woodward to sell it to them, the way he sells sponsors the idea of why it is good to give United their money.

It is hard to believe a lot will change from the summer, where the business should have been done.
But all we can do is hope...expect the worst for January transfer window (a repeat of the summer) while hoping for the best.

United really need to look at Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Real Madrid and how they operate in transfer window and try and replicate how they get in big names or young players with big reputations - an example is how Madrid splashed the cash for Isco.

That is the problem at United, the fans have lost a lot of faith in both the team on the pitch and the team off the pitch to get the job done.

homerjay2005

Your Airbag wrote: »

He tried. So you'll admit calling him penny pinching and asking why the f*ck doens't he spend some then was complete tosh?

what on earth are you talking about? were you asleep between May and September 1st?

Your Airbag wrote: »

People have since said they have no problem with the article and what Woodward has said lately. This is your agenda not the forums opinion.

one person commented on it, another person called him a cock. other people dont really care about it or are sick to the death of me and you arguing over him. i pointed out an article that ive sen other people talk about it, some negative, some positive. however, the CE of our club should be first and foremost concentrating on the pitch matters - if the team goes into freefall like it is now, our revenue will quickly drop. his comments lack ambition, drive and direction in terms of success ON the pitch and this follows on from a pathetic summer for him and above all else, the club.

you have some imagination on you, i can tell you that. while some people are willing to give him a chance and i can understand that, what i cant understand is how you seem to have this obsession with attacking anybody (normally me) who mentions him in anyway negative.

Mitch Connor

bullvine wrote: »

Mitch, do you believe the Bale rumours? about the 100m bid.

Yeah - have heard it from the same person who said a week before Bale signed his last contract with Tottenham that he had agreed a new contract - along with some other spurs related stuff. Was also mentioned to me in a few other places, from people I would trust.

My belief is that we did bid for Bale, and Spurs encouraged it, but we would only have had a chance of getting him if Madrid had decided to look elsewhere. We were never competition for Madrid, for Bale, in reality - no matter how much we bid.

Julez

RobertKK wrote: »

Paper rumours are Young and Anderson will be gone in January.

No way Young will leave, no one will want to match anywhere near the stupid money we pay him (reported £120k p/w).

bryangiggsy

We need 2/3 quality central midfielders

We need to play defenders in defenive positions

We need to send Fellani to the reserves.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

what on earth are you talking about? were you asleep between May and September 1st?



one person commented on it, another person called him a cock. other people dont really care about it or are sick to the death of me and you arguing over him. i pointed out an article that ive sen other people talk about it, some negative, some positive. however, the CE of our club should be first and foremost concentrating on the pitch matters - if the team goes into freefall like it is now, our revenue will quickly drop. his comments lack ambition, drive and direction in terms of success ON the pitch and this follows on from a pathetic summer for him and above all else, the club.

you have some imagination on you, i can tell you that. while some people are willing to give him a chance and i can understand that, what i cant understand is how you seem to have this obsession with attacking anybody (normally me) who mentions him in anyway negative.

You came out with an abusive post towards Woodward over a simple article. You are obsessed with slating him over the simple statements. I have no problem with Anti Moyes or Woodward fans, its making up silly stuff to attack them with.

There was nothing wrong in that article you posted. You say you understand people willing to give him a chance but yet you continue to slate him with insults yet act surprised when I defend him. I'll say it again that it wasn't the perfect window and he and Moyes did not do a great job but they tried and failed, they are not idiots.

Oh as for the one person commented on it, you said
"the general consensus amongest almost all United fans is that he is a buffoon" and the post that said you were speaking for yourself got lots of thanks. here is a link for you

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87168640&postcount=7967

Stop trying to say your opinion of him is ours. Most people are able to understand a innocent article without the need to attack him

Here is the text in question where you push your silly agenda calling him a buffon and stating that nobody likes him, also calling him the biggest liability to the club and apart from Bebe, the most embarrassing employee we have had at the club in recent years and other tosh like signing Mr Tayto is all he is good at. Given the inroads into our debt we are making its cringe worthy posting from you

Quote: Originally Posted by homerjay2005

are you related to Woodward or something? the general consensus amongest almost all United fans is that he is a buffoon as you call him. you seem to jump to his defence everytime he is mentioned on here.

nobody likes him, he is a liability to the club and apart from Bebe, the most embarrassing employee we have had at the club in recent years. he should go back to what he is good at, signing Mr Tayto and the like and leave the football side of things to people who know about it.



well, seen as its the latest breaking "story" its only natural its going to be discussed. each week, various things come out that give foundation to what is reported by the press.

Originally Posted by Oregano_State

Speak for yourself dude. I don't agree with any of your points, especially the first paragraph.

tallaghtmick

LOUD NOISES!!!!

Pro. F

That result is pretty bad, but the performance wasn't any different from what we've seen all season. There were some good spells and some bad spells and overall it just didn't work. The same as all season. We're actually a pretty consistent team at the moment. 5th to 10th is our level. And that is a shocking state of affairs.

Lots of people are talking about the squad not being good enough, but that is madness imo. Look at what we actually have:

- Rooney, RvP, Kagawa and Hernandez available at the sharp end (with Welbeck fine for 5th choice). That is as good as any strike force in the league.

- DDG in goal, as good as any keeper in the league.

- Vidic, Smalling, Evans, Jones and Rio for the two centre back slots. Again, that's as good as any collection of CBs in the league.

- Evra is pretty average and Rafael is quite good.

- Nani and Januzaj are good wingers. Valencia and Young are weak, but not the worst for back up. And Zaha has looked decent enough any time I have seen him.

- CM is obviously a weakness, but Fellaini, Carrick, Cleverley and Giggs is enough to cobble something together. And they have shown that they can actually help the team to out pass (in terms of volume of passes and time in possession) most teams we have faced this season.

There is no way that this squad is too weak for the top four. Not a chance. There is no way that a good manager would need to overhaul this squad before he could get them performing. I really hope Moyes doesn't buy anybody in January. Lets see if he can figure out how to get this excellent squad playing to a good level. That's what he needs to do to prove that he is a good enough manager for a club this size.

Last night Moyes came close do doing things right. He had Rafael at RB for a while and he instantly produced proper crosses. He had Nani and Januzaj on the pitch for a little while and they too produced crosses and an attacking edge. But he didn't start the two best wingers and he took off the best fullback and put our defensive winger (whatever the fúck that's meant to be) at right back.

Moyes still hasn't worked out how to get a sharp attacking edge out of this team and the performances and results show that.

SlickRic wrote: »

he said he'd have taken a draw before the game, after the game at Cardiff.

that says it all about just how much he needs to learn.

Have you, or anyone reading this, got a source for this? I remember hearing it in passing on the Football Weekly podcast and I went searching all over for the quotes. Couldn't find video or written quotes of him saying this anywhere. If I do ever see quotes for this then I'll know straight away that he needs to go.

ericzeking

Hi lads, chill out.... we'll still get in the Champions League next year...we'll just win it this year!! Sure we're flying in Europe!

We'll sign a few players in January alright, I'd bet on that. Some people are saying we won't cos we didn't in the summer yada yada, but my take is that he needed to see what he had to work with up close. Moyes and the board probably didn't think the league position would be quite this bad but I'd say they were well prepared to be a bit off the pace for this getting to know you period.

He is seeing in no uncertain terms that what he has isn't quite up to it. We can bang on about Valencias crossing and Welbecks misses but the main and over riding factor is central midfield, and in respect of that he has been severely unlucky, when was the last time Carrick was out for this long, has he ever been out for this long as a United player? That was everyones major fear in the summer....Moyes has also been let down in the sense that Fellaini is having such trouble finding his feet.
Granted I will say some of his selections in CM are not helping either. Last nights for example looked immobile from the outset, I'd only play Giggs in there if I had someone to cover extra ground for him ie Jones or Clev, I don't think Fellaini can do that job.


3 out and 5 in would be some craic in January wha?!

MagicIRL

I think I would rather have United finish 4th without panic-buying in January than to scrape top-3 and add more deadwood to the squad.

As well as buying key players, we really really need to sell off some others:

Valencia
Young
Rio (Retire)
Giggs (Retire)
Cleverly

If these six players continue starting week-in, week-out as most do, we'll never win anything again.

ericzeking

tallaghtmick wrote: »

LOUD NOISES!!!!

Ha, I was just thinking when I've been reading down through the posts I'm reading frenetically!!

bullvine

Pro. F wrote: »

That result is pretty bad, but the performance wasn't any different from what we've seen all season. There were some good spells and some bad spells and overall it just didn't work. The same as all season. We're actually a pretty consistent team at the moment. 5th to 10th is our level. And that is a shocking state of affairs.

Lots of people are talking about the squad not being good enough, but that is madness imo. Look at what we actually have:

- Rooney, RvP, Kagawa and Hernandez available at the sharp end (with Welbeck fine for 5th choice). That is as good as any strike force in the league.

- DDG in goal, as good as any keeper in the league.

- Vidic, Smalling, Evans, Jones and Rio for the two centre back slots. Again, that's as good as any collection of CBs in the league.

- Evra is pretty average and Rafael is quite good.

- Nani and Januzaj are good wingers. Valencia and Young are weak, but not the worst for back up. And Zaha has looked decent enough any time I have seen him.

- CM is obviously a weakness, but Fellaini, Carrick, Cleverley and Giggs is enough to cobble something together. And they have shown that they can actually help the team to out pass (in terms of volume of passes and time in possession) most teams we have faced this season.

There is no way that this squad is too weak for the top four. Not a chance. There is no way that a good manager would need to overhaul this squad before he could get them performing. I really hope Moyes doesn't buy anybody in January. Lets see if he can figure out how to get this excellent squad playing to a good level. That's what he needs to do to prove that he is a good enough manager for a club this size.

Last night Moyes came close do doing things right. He had Rafael at RB for a while and he instantly produced proper crosses. He had Nani and Januzaj on the pitch for a little while and they too produced crosses and an attacking edge. But he didn't start the two best wingers and he took off the best fullback and put our defensive winger (whatever the fúck that's meant to be) at right back.

Moyes still hasn't worked out how to get a sharp attacking edge out of this team and the performances and results show that.



Have you, or anyone reading this, got a source for this? I remember hearing it in passing on the Football Weekly podcast and I went searching all over for the quotes. Couldn't find video or written quotes of him saying this anywhere. If I do ever see quotes for this then I'll know straight away that he needs to go.

God Bless your optimism but I agree with you, I don't buy the whole squad is poor thing, with the exception of the CM, its a really good squad, its up to Moyes to get the best out of them. Its the out of form Wingers that a lot of the problems are coming from at the moment.

Rayne Wooney

Our first 11 is weak.

We need 3 world class players, in their absence 10th-5th in the league is our level.

Unearthly

I predicted Moyes wouldn't work out but I thought he would do better than this.

The team is looking very feeble at the moment. I no longer look at fixtures and say 3 points should be safe here.

Now wouldn't be a good time to sack him cause I can't see anyone with a top class cv being available. We missed the boat in the summer with several top class managers up for grabs and we will have to make do til Atleast the summer

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

That result is pretty bad, but the performance wasn't any different from what we've seen all season. There were some good spells and some bad spells and overall it just didn't work. The same as all season. We're actually a pretty consistent team at the moment. 5th to 10th is our level. And that is a shocking state of affairs.

Lots of people are talking about the squad not being good enough, but that is madness imo. Look at what we actually have:

- Rooney, RvP, Kagawa and Hernandez available at the sharp end (with Welbeck fine for 5th choice). That is as good as any strike force in the league.

- DDG in goal, as good as any keeper in the league.

- Vidic, Smalling, Evans, Jones and Rio for the two centre back slots. Again, that's as good as any collection of CBs in the league.

- Evra is pretty average and Rafael is quite good.

- Nani and Januzaj are good wingers. Valencia and Young are weak, but not the worst for back up. And Zaha has looked decent enough any time I have seen him.

- CM is obviously a weakness, but Fellaini, Carrick, Cleverley and Giggs is enough to cobble something together. And they have shown that they can actually help the team to out pass (in terms of volume of passes and time in possession) most teams we have faced this season.

There is no way that this squad is too weak for the top four. Not a chance. There is no way that a good manager would need to overhaul this squad before he could get them performing. I really hope Moyes doesn't buy anybody in January. Lets see if he can figure out how to get this excellent squad playing to a good level. That's what he needs to do to prove that he is a good enough manager for a club this size.

Last night Moyes came close do doing things right. He had Rafael at RB for a while and he instantly produced proper crosses. He had Nani and Januzaj on the pitch for a little while and they too produced crosses and an attacking edge. But he didn't start the two best wingers and he took off the best fullback and put our defensive winger (whatever the fúck that's meant to be) at right back.

Moyes still hasn't worked out how to get a sharp attacking edge out of this team and the performances and results show that.



Have you, or anyone reading this, got a source for this? I remember hearing it in passing on the Football Weekly podcast and I went searching all over for the quotes. Couldn't find video or written quotes of him saying this anywhere. If I do ever see quotes for this then I'll know straight away that he needs to go.

I still think we will get top four, we are a bit oof top but not 2nd, its still do-able.

The FW's and CM's you mentioned are good enough for top four, but have not all been available lately. I think we were better than Sunday for sure last night and Everton are a good side and i feel we were very unlucky and its harsh on Moyes as some many chances were wasted, Welbz with an open goal. We had the lions share of possession, shots and shots on target.

Plus he can't pick all the FW and MF together in a way that works and our first 11 is not as strong as it should be. RVP did cover up a lot of these cracks with his goals early last season, we miss him and Carrick lots

As for the I'd take a draw comment I heard it mentioned in an interview by Moyes at some stage this season, can't remember if it was sunday. Its our first loss in 12 and an unlucky one, we had the better of it

brinty

Unearthly wrote: »

I predicted Moyes wouldn't work out but I thought he would do better than this.

The team is looking very feeble at the moment. I no longer look at fixtures and say 3 points should be safe here.

Now wouldn't be a good time to sack him cause I can't see anyone with a top class cv being available. We missed the boat in the summer with several top class managers up for grabs and we will have to make do til Atleast the summer

+1 on this

I just don't know who i'd want in

Never felt comfortable about this

Look what happened with Busby/McGuinness back in the day...

tallaghtmick

Unearthly wrote: »

I predicted Moyes wouldn't work out but I thought he would do better than this.

The team is looking very feeble at the moment. I no longer look at fixtures and say 3 points should be safe here.

Now wouldn't be a good time to sack him cause I can't see anyone with a top class cv being available. We missed the boat in the summer with several top class managers up for grabs and we will have to make do til Atleast the summer

Same for me but I remember thinking ah 2nd wont be so bad!

onemorechance

As long as SAF is there to back him, Moyes will remain as manager.

He will not be sacked this season, and he still will be there next season.

Liam O

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Our first 11 is weak.

We need 3 world class players, in their absence 10th-5th in the league is our level.

It's definitely not! United have better strikers than every team above them bar maybe City and an honourable mention for Suarez, a central defence that at the very least matches up with them, an experienced midfield looking past their shortcomings, wingers who have had prolific campaigns in the past. People are looking for problems and I honestly think time will solve the majority of them. 5th-10th is a joke of a statement.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Our first 11 is weak.

We need 3 world class players, in their absence 10th-5th in the league is our level.

Our first 11 isn't really that weak compared to our title rivals. We're weak in central midfield and left back. Chelsea are weak at centre back and centre forward. City are weak at centre back and goal keeper. Arsenal don't have many weaknesses in their first team, but they severely lack depth at centre forward and they still lack defensive strength/depth in central midfield.

And first 11 is only half the story. The depth of the squad is equally important for competing over a league season. That's where we're in great shape.

To claim that 10th-5th is the correct level for this collection of players is laughable.

Your Airbag wrote: »

I still think we will get top four, we are a bit oof top but not 2nd, its still do-able.

The FW's and CM's you mentioned are good enough for top four, but have not all been available lately. I think we were better than Sunday for sure last night and Everton are a good side and i feel we were very unlucky and its harsh on Moyes as some many chances were wasted, Welbz with an open goal. We had the lions share of possession, shots and shots on target.

Plus he can't pick all the FW and MF together in a way that works and our first 11 is not as strong as it should be. RVP did cover up a lot of these cracks with his goals early last season, we miss him and Carrick lots

As for the I'd take a draw comment I heard it mentioned in an interview by Moyes at some stage this season, can't remember if it was sunday. Its our first loss in 12 and an unlucky one, we had the better of it

The fact that Moyes can't pick the midfield and forwards together in a way that works properly is the biggest indictment of him to date imo.

Carrick and RvP have been out for a while, the performances and results were just as poor when they were playing too.

Calling that loss our first loss in 12 is to ignore the fact that draws aren't particularly good results either for a club with our ambitions.

keane2097

Can you really say the central defence is that good with Ferdinand on a very clear decline and Vidic not seeming to ever be 100% fit? If Vidic is fully fit this season then I would have to think he's on a considerable wane as well.

EDIT:

Just to add to that Evra is pretty terrible and while Rafael is good I don't think there are any other right backs at United above average, Smalling being the best of them.

Basically I think the United defence is pretty badly overrated this year in particular. Without Vidic at his peak the rest falls apart, and I think Vidic has been way off the pace this season.

tallaghtmick

onemorechance wrote: »

As long as SAF is there to back him, Moyes will remain as manager.

He will not be sacked this season, and he still will be there next season.

Fergie out

Blatter

Pro. F wrote: »

Have you, or anyone reading this, got a source for this? I remember hearing it in passing on the Football Weekly podcast and I went searching all over for the quotes. Couldn't find video or written quotes of him saying this anywhere. If I do ever see quotes for this then I'll know straight away that he needs to go.

http://m.thenational.ae/sport/football/kim-lifts-cardiff-city-to-late-draw-with-manchester-united

It's at the end of that link. It's a bit strange though as I don't think any other paper had those quotes or even reported anything about them. Either it's a misquote or Moyes has a lot of chums in the media.

onemorechance

keane2097 wrote: »

Can you really say the central defence is that good with Ferdinand on a very clear decline and Vidic not seeming to ever be 100% fit? If Vidic is fully fit this season then I would have to think he's on a considerable wane as well.

EDIT:

Just to add to that Evra is pretty terrible and while Rafael is good I don't think there are any other right backs at United above average, Smalling being the best of them.

Basically I think the United defence is pretty badly overrated this year in particular. Without Vidic at his peak the rest falls apart, and I think Vidic has been way off the pace this season.

I think Rafael has been excellent for a while now, not many better right backs around. Miles ahead of Smalling in terms of his attacking ability, and better as a defending right back too.

Smalling's best position is CB I think. Reckon it's him and Evans to be the long-term CB's.

Jones has been playing well in CM; think that's his best position. Since it's an area where players are needed, it would be good to give him a chance to develop as a CM.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Lots of people are talking about the squad not being good enough, but that is madness imo. Look at what we actually have:

- CM is obviously a weakness, but Fellaini, Carrick, Cleverley and Giggs is enough to cobble something together. And they have shown that they can actually help the team to out pass (in terms of volume of passes and time in possession) most teams we have faced this season.

There is no way that this squad is too weak for the top four. N

Pro. F wrote: »

Our first 11 isn't really that weak compared to our title rivals. We're weak in central midfield and left back. Chelsea are weak at centre back and centre forward. City are weak at centre back and goal keeper. Arsenal don't have many weaknesses in their first team, but they severely lack depth at centre forward and they still lack defensive strength/depth in central midfield.

And first 11 is only half the story. The depth of the squad is equally important for competing over a league season. That's where we're in great shape.

To claim that 10th-5th is the correct level for this collection of players is laughable.



The fact that Moyes can't pick the midfield and forwards together in a way that works properly is the biggest indictment of him to date imo.

Carrick and RvP have been out for a while, the performances and results were just as poor when they were playing too.

Calling that loss our first loss in 12 is to ignore the fact that draws aren't particularly good results either for a club with our ambitions.

Actually let me revise when I agreed with the MF, not sure what I was thinking. Good enough for top four you said? Actually when I look at City and Chelseas and Arsenal I'm not so sure.

Our MF is not UTD standard and equipped to title challange and is miles behind top european team, but top four, maybe maybe not. I'm not having a go here or meaning to drag up the whole Clev thing again but just sit back and look at them individually.

Yo say "but Fellaini, Carrick, Cleverley and Giggs is enough to cobble something together" I think the word cobble is pretty telling

Lets look at them keeping in mind the Yaya's, Carzola's, Ramseys, Silva's, Lampards etc is there the ability in the UTD do they compliment each other also

Giggs has good passing ability but is 40 and doesn't have the legs for it.

Clev isn't creative enough and does a basic job but is limited compared to those other MF's.

Carrick is our best MF but even saying that he is getting on and I said before he is the best of what we have but not the best MF out there or UTD standard of old.

Fellaini has ability but we haven't seen it yet. He may or may not work out. Its the risk when you make a transfer and a lot us wanted him but so far its hasn't been a good signing, yes some of this is down to how Moyes deploys him.

Ando is a lost cause.


When you sit back and look at it that a poor state of affairs for our MF to be in and most games are controlled and won and lost in the centre, our forward play is suffering because of it. We could easily do with four new bodies in their to repalce what we have.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

To claim that 10th-5th is the correct level for this collection of players is laughable.

We need real world class LB, LW, and CM

You list City, Chelsea as being weak in CB and not United as being weak in that area and yet they had a better defensive record last season and currently this season than us?

Well then what is your unlaughable level for the current players considering we're 9th in the league at the moment?

TheDoc

I don't think it will happen in January, but I can forsee a clearout in the summer. Atleast a statement from Moyes cutting loose weak performers and deadweight.

I don't think Cleverly will go, there is high value in English players and there is a slight chance for him. He can be neat enough on the ball, the entire team is struggling, **** maybe he might turn into something.

I'd imagine Young is high up the list.
Evra will probably make way.
Anderson unless storming the second half of the season will be sold.
Chico will most likely depart.
Valencia is tough and go, his engine and pace give a longing of " if we can teach him to cross" that he will be lethal.
Kagawa will most likely leave

Contrao is sitting on the bench again most weeks for Madrid after getting re-assurances from the club. I'd be going in for him big time, regardless of getting the likes of Baines, Fully believe he would be quickly turned into a devastating left winger. The Kagawa situation was unfortunate, he was bought to play behind Rooney and the arrival of RVP scuppered that. We have a situation like Veron all over again. Best to move him on and make some form of return, or use him as a chip in a transfer.

I'd love to tempt fate and try pull Reus away from Dortmund. I think The Kagawa situation was unfortunate, he was bought to play behind Rooney and the arrival of RVP scuppered that. We have a situation like Veron all over again. Best to move him on and make some form of return, or use him as a chip in a transfer. Kags in a deal + cash for Reus might not be a bad move. And if I want to get wild, I'd ****ing love Matt Hummels, proper balling centre half.

keane2097

onemorechance wrote: »

I think Rafael has been excellent for a while now, not many better right backs around. Miles ahead of Smalling in terms of his attacking ability, and better as a defending right back too.

Smalling's best position is CB I think. Reckon it's him and Evans to be the long-term CB's.

Jones has been playing well in CM; think that's his best position. Since it's an area where players are needed, it would be good to give him a chance to develop as a CM.

I agree Smalling is a potentially very good CB, as Jones probably is, just pointing out that while Rafael is a good RB (not sure about excellent, but I suppose there aren't too many of those in the EPL anyway) the back up to him is pretty bad.

For the CB position, you've got Ferdinand and Vidic who I think are on the slide, Ferdinand certainly is massively. Evans is good enough, but not going to be getting into a EPL XI I don't think, Smalling and Jones are pretty unproven but have a lot of potential.

LB - Evra is terrible, Buttner is not a top four player in the least, Fabio is gone missing.

Essentially, you've got a pretty mediocre back four all in all. With Vidic flying everyone's level increases and turns it into a very good back four, such is his influence, but without him or when he's below par it reverts to the sum of its ok-ish parts.

homerjay2005

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/05/manchester-united-athletic-bilbao-ander-herrera-transfer

back in for Herrara in January according to the Guardian. £29.9 is a huge huge gamble.

i am concerned, he is Cleverly mark II and wont improve us much.

Headshot

homerjay2005 wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/05/manchester-united-athletic-bilbao-ander-herrera-transfer

back in for Herrara in January according to the Guardian. £29.6 is a huge huge gamble

It boggles the mind

keane2097

homerjay2005 wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/05/manchester-united-athletic-bilbao-ander-herrera-transfer

back in for Herrara in January according to the Guardian. £29.6 is a huge huge gamble

Would you consider penny-pinching or overspending to be the bigger flaw in Woodward's character? You seem equally happy to lace him for either, even in the same post at times!

Rayne Wooney

If we're willing to spend almost £30m on a huge risk why can't we just add 15-20m to that and buy proven players, I find it hard to believe that Dortmund would reject a £45-50m bid for Gundogan, whether he'd sign for us is another question but it's worth a try

onemorechance

keane2097 wrote: »

I agree Smalling is a potentially very good CB, as Jones probably is, just pointing out that while Rafael is a good RB (not sure about excellent, but I suppose there aren't too many of those in the EPL anyway) the back up to him is pretty bad.

For the CB position, you've got Ferdinand and Vidic who I think are on the slide, Ferdinand certainly is massively. Evans is good enough, but not going to be getting into a EPL XI I don't think, Smalling and Jones are pretty unproven but have a lot of potential.

LB - Evra is terrible, Buttner is not a top four player in the least, Fabio is gone missing.

Essentially, you've got a pretty mediocre back four all in all. With Vidic flying everyone's level increases and turns it into a very good back four, such is his influence, but without him or when he's below par it reverts to the sum of its ok-ish parts.

The lack of goals scored is more of an issue than the amount of goals conceeded. Compared to last year (average over the season) with games played right now, it's 18 conceded this year versus 16 last year, but only 22 scored versus 31.

Defence can do better, attack can do much better.

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/05/manchester-united-athletic-bilbao-ander-herrera-transfer

back in for Herrara in January according to the Guardian. £29.9 is a huge huge gamble.

i am concerned, he is Cleverly mark II and wont improve us much.

I'd be shocked if we paid that for him - considering we were quite public in saying once we were told the price would not go below the 'Release Fee' (that price) that we were not interested, we didn't rate him at 30million.

Would cast even more question marks over Moyes and Woodward if they pay 30million for him in January.

Pro. F

Blatter wrote: »

http://m.thenational.ae/sport/football/kim-lifts-cardiff-city-to-late-draw-with-manchester-united

It's at the end of that link. It's a bit strange though as I don't think any other paper had those quotes or even reported anything about them. Either it's a misquote or Moyes has a lot of chums in the media.

Thanks for that.

I'm going to work on the assumption that that paper misquoted him. First of all because, as you say, it wasn't written anywhere else. And also because I watched all the video of interviews and press conferences that I could find and didn't see him saying that last, controversial bit. And I did see him saying all the other bits in the quote.

homerjay2005

keane2097 wrote: »

Would you consider penny-pinching or overspending to be the bigger flaw in Woodward's character? You seem equally happy to lace him for either, even in the same post at times!

why would anybody be happy to over spend on something? i want him to do the deals right, is that too much to ask for?

he overspent on Fellaini because he f*cked up. Herrara could turn out to be a great player, but would you not rather we spent that €36 million on a more proven player perhaps?

a huge problem i have was that the club waited until end of August to kick off the Herrara deal at which point they then decided to not meet the clause. why didnt they do this for example in July and allow themselves time to make the decison and move on to somebody else, besides allow the farce that happened, to unfold?

that should be really clear to you, not sure why you need to even bring up this point.

keane2097

homerjay2005 wrote: »

why would anybody be happy to over spend on something? i want him to do the deals right, is that too much to ask for.

he overspend on Fellaini because he f*cked up. herrara could turn out to be a great player, but would you not rather we spent that €36 million on a more proven player perhaps?

I couldn't care less personally, but I suppose it's worth pointing out that the work Woodward has clearly been smashing in getting in mega-bucks deals left right and centre make it pretty inconsequential whether United spend 24 million on Fellaini in June or 28 million on him as a last resort.

The actual thing you ought to notice from the contradicting of yourself you are doing is that if your analysis has made someone both a miser and a wanton splurger you've probably made an error somewhere.

Mitch Connor

keane2097 wrote: »

I couldn't care less personally, but I suppose it's worth pointing out that the work Woodward has clearly been smashing in getting in mega-bucks deals left right and centre make it pretty inconsequential whether United spend 24 million on Fellaini in June or 28 million on him as a last resort.

The actual thing you ought to notice from the contradicting of yourself you are doing is that if your analysis has made someone both a miser and a wanton splurger you've probably made an error somewhere.

I'm fairly certain the issue has been he has been useless at transfer negotiations.

homerjay2005

keane2097 wrote: »

I couldn't care less personally, but I suppose it's worth pointing out that the work Woodward has clearly been smashing in getting in mega-bucks deals left right and centre make it pretty inconsequential whether United spend 24 million on Fellaini in June or 28 million on him as a last resort.

The actual thing you ought to notice from the contradicting of yourself you are doing is that if your analysis has made someone both a miser and a wanton splurger you've probably made an error somewhere.

where is the contradiction or more to the point - how can you not see the difference?

all summer long, he penny penched putting in misery bids and pissing off clubs.

at 11.00 on deadline day, we then had to pay £27.5million on a player who could have been got earlier that summer, for less but still more than the money we offered (we bid £28million for him and Baines), release clause having been at £23.5million.

how on earth can you not see the difference here in what i am saying, it is pretty clear?

he had to overpay on the Fellaini deal, as it was f8cked up and for that, he deserves criticism unless you disagree with that????

and why would you be happy to see our club waste money on players who maybe not worth it, but at the same time he wouldnt go any higher than £29million for Fabregas, a player who is clearly worth alot more.

end result was the same - no world class players signed and £27.5million spent that could have went towards one.