Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Burt Macklin

onemorechance wrote: »

. . . 4 5 6! :pac:

I know, right? I'm amazed I haven't been offered an advisory role on the coaching staff yet.(If Phelan could manage it, how hard can it be?)

brinty

tallaghtmick wrote: »

I actually love how some of you posters have arch enemies on here

Who wants to be mine?

I hate Tallaght, lads called Mick and Dublin in general...I'm from meath, we should be arch nemesis....

Danye

jonnyfingers wrote: »

I think our performance towards the end of games, or lack thereof, has a lot to do with the supposed increase in fitness training. I think it will benefit some of the players, Rooney for example and the younger players. However the likes of RVP, Vidic and Carrick don't really need extra fitness training in my opinion, yet they seem to have suffered from more injuries this season than they have before. Now it might purely be coincidence but surely if training is contributing towards it Moyes and his fitness team must realise it and make changes accordingly.

It will be interesting to see if this extra fitness training pays off in the second half of the season. But I've seen nothing so far to show it's having any sort of positive effect.

We are nearly half way through the season. No team at United's level should need extra fitness training. Individual players maybe need it but the squad collectively shouldn't.

bucketybuck

keane2097 wrote: »

Do you really think they looked worse last night than previously?

Honestly, I thought last night was just more of the same. Its been the same ****e for 14 league games now and not once have I seen anything to give me hope that its all suddenly about to click and we start playing well again.

Thats why I'm so frustrated with Moyes, we have been rubbish all season and still every game its the usual suspects playing the same rubbish.

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

Honestly, I thought last night was just more of the same. Its been the same ****e for 14 league games now and not once have I seen anything to give me hope that its all suddenly about to click and we start playing well again.

Thats why I'm so frustrated with Moyes, we have been rubbish all season and still every game its the usual suspects playing the same rubbish.

Yeah I wouldn't contradict you, just that having only caught the highlights I thought it looked like they had played ok.

bullvine

bucketybuck wrote: »

Honestly, I thought last night was just more of the same. Its been the same ****e for 14 league games now and not once have I seen anything to give me hope that its all suddenly about to click and we start playing well again.

Thats why I'm so frustrated with Moyes, we have been rubbish all season and still every game its the usual suspects playing the same rubbish.

Not a single good performance in the league says it all!

brinty

bullvine wrote: »

Not a single good performance in the league says it all!

Swansea away??? 4-1??

Hitchens

Interesting article on the Moyes situation

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25226263

Blatter

Pro. F wrote: »

Ah I'm going to have to wait for better than goal.com too. I don't want it to seem like I'm being overly trusting of Moyes, but just thenational.ae and goal.com isn't enough to make me believe he said that.

Also, even if he did say it, I wouldn't be totally convinced he meant it. Managers say dumb stuff all the time when trying to spin bad situations into a positive light.

Don't get me wrong, if he did say it, it was a really stupid thing to say, but I'd be unconvinced if that was his actual mentality. If it was then that's a huge problem obviously.

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree that Rio is regressing quickly, but I don't agree that there is any problem with Vidic aside from the fact that there is far too much rotation at the moment. I remember people were writing him off in the early part of last season, but when he came back from his injury around half way through the season (I can't remember when it was exactly), and was part of a settled defence, he was back to his imposing self. I still see all the signs that he is a strong, brave and intelligent CB.

I also think that if Smalling or Jones played regularly in a settled defence that they would quickly be recognised as among the best centre backs in the league. And I think Evans is a good back up (others think he is more than that).

So this does come down to how much you trust Vidic, Smalling and Jones. I think the evidence of what each have shown, considering the rotation that they've faced over the last two seasons, is that they are all top drawer.

Evra is a weakness, that's true. But there are a lot of clubs in the league that have one dodgy fullback, even some top clubs. There isn't much back up for Rafael in terms of attacking from that position, but defensively Jones and Smalling are fine to fill in there imo.



We don't need a world class left back or left wing. There's no reason why any team has to have a world class left back. And for the left wing we have Januzaj, he's quite good already.

Defensive records involve an awful lot more than just the quality of the centre backs.

How we are performing this season is what I am criticising. I'm saying the players are more than good enough to be in the top four and that the manager is the problem, and you are saying "yeah but we're in ninth place." That doesn't prove anything one way or the other.



If you just look at the CM in isolation then yes, we are behind all the other top teams. And you and I can agree a general impression, regardless of the details if each individual. But it's the same as if you just look at Chelsea's centre forward options in isolation or City's goal keeper and central defensive issues in isolation. That's my point, taken as a whole our squad is at a very similar level to those two. And I would say it's beyond doubt that the squad is at a level good enough to be ahead of Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Southampton et al.

Really???

It's not a hard one to fathom that the majority of every single football game on the planet from junior to senior is played in and around the middle of the park. Having great forwards and defenders will only get you so far if you don't have a central midfield to glue both of them together you essentially have arms and legs without the torso.

You can't keep saying other teams are weaker in defence and going forward this **** really can't and shouldn't wash any more, our defence compared to Chelsea and city is not a million miles away, their forward line while under performing at the moment is being compensated by a stellar midfield in all aspects, where as our midfield is just ****ing light years behind both, our forwards can't compensate for a lack lustre midfield when they get sod all supply all game not can our defenders help our forwards, but then you look at what having a top class midfield does for teams like chelsea with a not so great forward line.......the game is ultimately won and lost in the middle of the park if our performances haven't eluded you to this fact all season then I honestly don't know.

Bury your head in the sand and try and pick holes all you want in other title contenders the point is that while chelsea and city were ****ing awful last year and we capatalised on this whilst under performing on the pitch we've not been so lucky this year. We need investment we need a midfield. Anyone who thinks other wise and I say this while I understand everyone has an opinion, is a ****ing moron.

Just to iterate I'm standing by Moyes until at least the end of the season, I believe he warrants at least that long before we judge him.

kippy

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

So once again, the arguement isn't "Moyes should stay because here is what Moyes brings to the table", but instead "Moyes should stay because he was given a 6 year contract and we don't want to embarrass ourselves". Nothing to do with Moyes personally. Could sub his name out for any other and the argument wouldn't change.

And "embarrassing"? Since when do we care what other teams think of us? Is the idea really that some fans would rather see the club tumble down the table rather than face "embarrassment" for calling a mistake a mistake and trying to rectify it? That's just6 stubbornness.

The point is no one knows what Moyes brings to the table and we'll never know if hes let lose after 6 months in charge......

J. Marston

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Going for Pogba would be a strange one - why would we want a player back, who clearly left on bad terms 18 months ago?

would be some kick in the hole to have to fork out for him after he leaving for free. great player, but i think that ship has sailed unfortunately.

Wouldn't care if we bought him for £40 million. I'm long past the point of caring about United's money troubles. The thousands (maybe literally) of sponsors we have, TV money, merchandise, you name it. United are swimming in cash.

Lord TSC

kippy wrote: »

The point is no one knows what Moyes brings to the table and we'll never know if hes let lose after 6 months in charge......

So you want us to just have blind faith in him?

onemorechance

kippy wrote: »

The point is no one knows what Moyes brings to the table and we'll never know if hes let lose after 6 months in charge......

We know that he was able to convince Rooney to stay and get him performing at his best.

We know the brightest young hope at the club, Adnan was happy enough with working under Moyes to sign a contract, unlike the previous brightest young hope, Pogba.

We know that he oversaw United's largest Champions League away victory against the team second in Germany, who had not been beaten at home all season, even when Munich came to visit.

We suspect that his training methods have annoyed RvP and may have contributed to his current injuries.

We know that the team is not playing to the standard that is expected of them in the league and we can speculate that another manager, that is not SAF, could motivate, train, select and direct the players better than Moyes, and speculate whether this would be better in the short-term, long-term or both.

Either way, Moyes is going to be manager of Manchester United this season and the next . . .

brinty

onemorechance wrote: »

We know that he was able to convince Rooney to stay and get him performing at his best.

We know the brightest young hope at the club, Adnan was happy enough with working under Moyes to sign a contract, unlike the previous brightest young hope, Pogba.

We know that he oversaw United's largest Champions League away victory against the team second in Germany, who had not been beaten at home all season, even when Munich came to visit.

We suspect that his training methods have annoyed RvP and may have contributed to his current injuries.

We know that the team is not playing to the standard that is expected of them in the league and we can speculate that another manager, that is not SAF, could motivate, train, select and direct the players better than Moyes, and speculate whether this would be better in the short-term, long-term or both.

Either way, Moyes is going to be manager of Manchester United this season and the next . . .

Your user name sums up Moyes in a lot of fans opinion after every match!!!!!

tallaghtmick

bullvine wrote: »

Me! Tallaght SCUM!:D

ronjo wrote: »

I hate Tallaght almost as much as I hate people called Mick !

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Oh, oh! Pick me, pick me!

It's been years since I had a nemesis...

brinty wrote: »

I hate Tallaght, lads called Mick and Dublin in general...I'm from meath, we should be arch nemesis....

Its on......You're all wrong and I am right on everything Man Utd related including tea lady stuff!!!!

brinty

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Its on......You're all wrong and I am right on everything Man Utd related including tea lady stuff!!!!

jesus your insulting my old lady now too are ye...she's the tea lady don't ye know!!!!

tallaghtmick

Hitchens wrote: »

Interesting article on the Moyes situation

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25226263

This bit here

insults piled up around Moyes like rubble as he made his way down the touchline to the derision of the Stretford End

Was there abuse thrown at him? Cant imagine the Stretford end doing that

Backstreet Moyes

I am not going to defend Moyes he has performed worse than i had expected. But just a few points to consider so far.

He comes in to replace the greatest manager of all time very tough.
Also your new CEO is somebody who has never dealt with transfers before.
You have very little time to assess the squad and get in quality replacements.
The center midfield he was left with is lower league standard bar Carrick.
His midfield signing has been terribly out of form.
The 3 best players last season and the spine of the team Ferdinand, Carrick and RVP have been injured or out of form.
Evra has been very poor and Rafael has been injured.
People complain about how it's the same tactics all season i agree the same as last season. I think with a midfield so poor you have limited options of what you are going to do tactically. Their is no life or service from the midfield.

Everything is not rosy and if he doesn't get top 4 he needs to go but i would like to let him build his own squad. Give him a chance to bring his own players and ideas.

homerjay2005

tallaghtmick wrote: »

This bit here

Was there abuse thrown at him? Cant imagine the Stretford end doing that

nothing was said to him. he even clapped the strettie end crowd as he was going off as did the players.

he still has the support of the match going fans, though last night he took alot of abuse from the Everton fans which was surprising. they appear to hate him now and are glad he left them.

of course the fact that the stadium emptied with 8 minutes to go is pretty damning however. seems like there is no belief anymore in the club and this is the real worry.

tallaghtmick

homerjay2005 wrote: »

nothing was said to him. he even clapped the strettie end crowd as he was going off as did the players.

he still has the support of the match going fans, though last night he took alot of abuse from the Everton fans which was surprising. they appear to hate him now and are glad he left them.

of course the fact that the stadium emptied with 8 minutes to go is pretty damning however. seems like there is no belief anymore in the club and this is the real worry.

They are from Liverpool what do you expect

Kess73

For Brinty and tallaghtmick.


Just watch out for elderly women. :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMJq-aGg1bQ

DM_7

Like others I am terribly disappointed with the start Moyes has made and it does make me wonder at the back of my mind if he is in fact right for the job. At this stage it is only wondering as he is there for a very small amount of time.

Midfield is awful and tactics seem to be designed around bypassing it and playing percentages. I don't expect that to be what Moyes is aiming for long term, just a short term `fix', he spoke before officially taking over about how important midfield is so I do think his aim is to fix that position.

If he is going to have any success this season I think he is going to have to stop playing percentages and make better use of the attackers he has as the fix is not working, playing percentages and not going for it game as leads to tight games that end up lost or drew because of a mistake. Needs to be more forceful and ambitious despite misfiled problems.

kippy

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

So you want us to just have blind faith in him?

What are u gonna do about it? Go over to OT and demand he be fired?
Having faith,belief and hope are surely key components of supporting a club?

Vic Vinegar

What's the story with Matic? i haven't seen much of him lately, there is some talk of a bid. Would he be a good signing for us?

SlickRic

tallaghtmick wrote: »

They are from Liverpool what do you expect

they respect what he did, but deemed him incapable of taking them to the next level.

the reason they booed him? remember, he actively tried to pinch Fellaini and Baines for a relative pittance, saying he would accept a bid of £28m for the two if he was Everton boss.

completely patronising horseshít.

Lord TSC

kippy wrote: »

What are u gonna do about it? Go over to OT and demand he be fired?
Having faith,belief and hope are surely key components of supporting a club?

:rolleyes:

No. I'm going to use the public forum board available to me to discuss his position at the club and to vent my frustrations. I'm not deluded, and I know individually I don't have power, but I don't see how that is relevant to the situation at hand.

As for faith, belief and hope....there's a difference between faith and blind faith. It's why I've continually asked for people to put forward arguments as to why Moyes shouldn't be sacked because of something specific to Moyes himself. I support the club, but right now, the manager does not particularly have my support...

Blind faith is dangerous. It leads clubs and fans down dangerous paths, and could leave us believing "Nah, this year is totally going to be our year!" without anything to back it up.

I have faith in the club to rectify mistakes. I have belief and hope that the club might realise it's made a booboo, and that no one mad or idea is bigger than the club. But my faith is in the club, not the manager right now, and I've seen nothing to suggest my faith should be in Moyes.

Cantona's Collars

Everton Ribeiro's representatives have confirmed that talks are taking place over a transfer to United.

onemorechance

Cruzeiro insist they are not in talks to sell Everton Ribeiro
...

Sky Sports

In Brazil can you can bypass the club and go direct to the rep?

Pro. F

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Really???

It's not a hard one to fathom that the majority of every single football game on the planet from junior to senior is played in and around the middle of the park. Having great forwards and defenders will only get you so far if you don't have a central midfield to glue both of them together you essentially have arms and legs without the torso.

You can't keep saying other teams are weaker in defence and going forward this **** really can't and shouldn't wash any more, our defence compared to Chelsea and city is not a million miles away, their forward line while under performing at the moment is being compensated by a stellar midfield in all aspects, where as our midfield is just ****ing light years behind both, our forwards can't compensate for a lack lustre midfield when they get sod all supply all game not can our defenders help our forwards, but then you look at what having a top class midfield does for teams like chelsea with a not so great forward line.......the game is ultimately won and lost in the middle of the park if our performances haven't eluded you to this fact all season then I honestly don't know.

Bury your head in the sand and try and pick holes all you want in other title contenders the point is that while chelsea and city were ****ing awful last year and we capatalised on this whilst under performing on the pitch we've not been so lucky this year. We need investment we need a midfield. Anyone who thinks other wise and I say this while I understand everyone has an opinion, is a ****ing moron.

Just to iterate I'm standing by Moyes until at least the end of the season, I believe he warrants at least that long before we judge him.

You're right, you don't fúcking know. You haven't a fúcking notion what you are talking about. And for somebody with such a poor grasp of English you have some cheek throwing around the moron tag.

Our central midfield is obviously an issue, but Fellaini, Carrick, Cleverley, Jones and Giggs are at least as good as the average standard in the league and we have completed more passes than most teams we have faced this season. So we don't have no central midfield like you stupidly claim. Combine that with the fact that our forwards, CBs and GK are light years ahead of the majority of teams in the league and you have a collection of players that are easily good enough to get into the top four. It doesn't matter if we were to lose to Arsenal, City and Chelsea home and away, we still should be beating everybody else to that fourth spot.

Chelsea's midfield make up for their lack of quality up front and City's midfield and forwards make up for their lack of quality at CB and 'keeper. You claim that midfield issues can't be overcome in the same way, yet it has been done many times before. Plenty of times throughout history teams with the best midfields have failed to win in leagues because of weak defences or lack of goals up front, while the team with the better strikers and/or defenders went on to win it. Even if you don't agree with this it doesn't matter, the original point was not to do with competing with Chelsea, City and Arsenal, but getting into the top four. Currently there are 5 teams between us and that objective, none of which have squads as good as ours.

Pro. F

brinty wrote: »

Swansea away??? 4-1??

That scoreline was incredibly flattering. Did you watch the game? I'd have it as one of our worst performances of the season.

UnitedIrishman

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

What's the story with Matic? i haven't seen much of him lately, there is some talk of a bid. Would he be a good signing for us?

With regards this: if we did sign Matic in January, he's ruled out for Champions League football knockout stages correct? Then I'd imagine the only chance of him joining us in January is if Benfica are out of the CL. Otherwise, he knows that he can wait at Benfica, play CL football for the rest of the season and us and Dortmund will still be in for him.

Not holding out much hope of any loan/permanent deal for Coentrao either given it pretty much hinged on Siquiera joining Madrid, and now he's currently on a season long loan deal at Benfica.

Gundogan is an option. He's out of contract the summer after next and Dortmund may be out of Europe by January.

Pro. F

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

What's the story with Matic? i haven't seen much of him lately, there is some talk of a bid. Would he be a good signing for us?

From what I remember: big, strong and reliable, but a little lacking in close control and creativity. So I wouldn't see him as a great fit to go alongside Carrick or Fellaini.

UnitedIrishman

Pro. F wrote: »

From what I remember: big, strong and reliable, but a little lacking in close control and creativity. So I wouldn't see him as a great fit to go alongside Carrick or Fellaini.

As painful as it is to say - Thiago would've been the perfect fit for what we need. IMO, we need another midfielder who is willing to get on the ball time again and again i.e. come deep looking for it and provide an option at all times from behind the play and is extremely comfortable on the ball.

Sounds simple but they're seemingly in short supply.

titan18

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

What's the story with Matic? i haven't seen much of him lately, there is some talk of a bid. Would he be a good signing for us?

Would have been a better signing than Fellaini, but not really what we need with Fellaini and Carrick there

Robson99

tallaghtmick wrote: »

The 1st 2 ill give him but Adnan would have been played by Fergie anyway.

How can you be sure Fergie would have played Adnan??? After all look what he did to Pogba when we were crying out for a midfielder

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/05/manchester-united-athletic-bilbao-ander-herrera-transfer

back in for Herrara in January according to the Guardian. £29.9 is a huge huge gamble.

i am concerned, he is Cleverly mark II and wont improve us much.

I won't get into anything about Woodward wasting money here because I'm sure its Moyes call on who he wants but I would have the same concern with you regarding Herrera being Clev mark II.

Actually after 11 or so matches this season he has less impressive stats than Cleverly, less pass rate % and defensive actions but stats don't show the whole story and he has created 19 chances with those passes which is a lot more than Clev so I would imagine a lot of his passes are forward and attempting to breach a defense.

If it didn't work out and we spent all that money it would be on Moyes as he picks the targets. He must.

Anyway Ogden has us in for Gundoganin, Herrera and Baines in January. Much more positive.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10489859/Manchester-United-in-no-rush-to-open-talks-with-forward-Wayne-Rooney-over-new-contract.html

Also Herrera has been out of form after having his head turned by us in the summer. I have no arrow graphs to see how positive he is but I have seen him play twice for a full 90 mins twice this season, most recently a 1-0 home win to Barca, a Messiless Barca although but Bilbao played very well. Herrera wasn't a dominate figure, thats not to say he wasn't in the game either but he did a Clev type job except when on two occasions he played very impressive passes forward that set off attacks. So thats two over 90 mins but it was Barca who dominated the possesion and really try to shut you down.

I'll try to get his last season stats and see how they compare to our current MFer's last season stats.

Pro. F wrote: »

If you just look at the CM in isolation then yes, we are behind all the other top teams. And you and I can agree a general impression, regardless of the details if each individual. But it's the same as if you just look at Chelsea's centre forward options in isolation or City's goal keeper and central defensive issues in isolation. That's my point, taken as a whole our squad is at a very similar level to those two. And I would say it's beyond doubt that the squad is at a level good enough to be ahead of Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Southampton et al.

Well our midfield being greater than a sum of its parts is not something I'd agree with but you agree in isolation we come off as weaker so I can't see how we can come of equal or greater together.

I''m not sure Chelsea's defense is that weak or City's goal keeper and defensive issues are all that bad and make us equal to them. Those areas are manageble and they are not well behind like we are in MF, actually Sky or the beeb threw out an interesting stat that City were better wihtout Kompany this season but thats not something that will last.

Having control in the centre guards your backline and feeds your forward line, its the key so I would say our poor quality in this area puts us behind them overall.

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

Well our midfield being greater than a sum of its parts is not something I'd agree with but you agree in isolation we come off as weaker so I can't see how we can come of equal or greater together.

I''m not sure Chelsea's defense is that weak or City's goal keeper and defensive issues are all that bad and make us equal to them. Those areas are manageble and they are not well behind like we are in MF, actually Sky or the beeb threw out an interesting stat that City were better wihtout Kompany this season but thats not something that will last.

Having control in the centre guards your backline and feeds your forward line, its the key so I would say our poor quality in this area puts us behind them overall.

I'm not saying that our midfield is greater than the sum of its parts. The parts are average and the sum is average too. I'm saying that Chelsea have problems with an average selection of forwards and City have problems with an average 'keeper and an average selection of centre backs (edit: overly harsh on the centre backs, forget about them). So the squads overall are on a similar level, each with their own weak areas.

I would say that goal keeper, centre back and striker are all more important than central midfield. Those are the positions that Brian Clough used to say were the most important and it seems to have been Fergie's thinking too. But if you don't agree with that, then just forget about City, Arsenal and Chelsea for now. Surely you agree that the collection of players we have, average CM included, is better than any other squad outside the top 3 in the league.

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

Our central midfield is obviously an issue, but Fellaini, Carrick, Cleverley, Jones and Giggs are at least as good as the average standard in the league and we have completed more passes than most teams we have faced this season. So we don't have no central midfield like you stupidly claim.

Thats what they are AVERAGE. We are crying out for two middle of the park players for 3 or 4years now. Had to get Scholes out of retirement to save our blushes and Fergies failings to BUY a world class middle player.


People bang on about Moyes and especially Woodward fooking up the summer transfers. Well why didnt the board buy out Moyes clause with Everton and bring him in at the end of May, or why didnt they get Gill to stay until the end of the transfer window to educate Woodward. Moyes sees the problem in the middle and at least has tried to improve it. It doesnt matter if it was 24m or 27m he spent on Fellani. Fellani was excellent for Everton and was proven in the PL. He just hasnt produced for Utd yet. Spending 7m on Bebe as Fergie did was what was a waste of money

TBH if people were to pick a combined 11 from Utd, City and Chelsea we would have no more than 4 players in it. De Gea, Rafael, Vidic and RVP. A lot of our players are squad players and not good enough for regular first team football

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

I would say that goal keeper, centre back and striker are all more important than central midfield. Those are the positions that Brian Clough used to say were the most important and it seems to have been Fergie's thinking too. But if you don't agree with that, then just forget about City, Arsenal and Chelsea for now. Surely you agree that the collection of players we have, average CM included, is better than any other squad outside the top 3 in the league.

I agree that outside the top three yes but maybe even top four, Liverpool are not that weak in the middle. We are not far off top four and I think we will make it.

Regarding the top three I'm saying that Chelsea and Citys defensive and keeper problems are not that bad certainly not as bad as our MF problem, certainly more managble even with injuries and we are behind them in overall first 11 strenght.

Pro. F

Robson99 wrote: »

Thats what they are AVERAGE. We are crying out for two middle of the park players for 3 or 4years now. Had to get Scholes out of retirement to save our blushes and Fergies failings to BUY a world class middle player.


People bang on about Moyes and especially Woodward fooking up the summer transfers. Well why didnt the board buy out Moyes clause with Everton and bring him in at the end of May, or why didnt they get Gill to stay until the end of the transfer window to educate Woodward. Moyes sees the problem in the middle and at least has tried to improve it. It doesnt matter if it was 24m or 27m he spent on Fellani. Fellani was excellent for Everton and was proven in the PL. He just hasnt produced for Utd yet. Spending 7m on Bebe as Fergie did was what was a waste of money

TBH if people were to pick a combined 11 from Utd, City and Chelsea we would have no more than 4 players in it. De Gea, Rafael, Vidic and RVP. A lot of our players are squad players and not good enough for regular first team football

You are talking about something else. I have been crying out for CMs to be bought for years. I know that was an issue. However it is an issue if you want to win the PL or CL, it is not so much of an issue that we should be falling outside the top four.

Edit: How is only having 4 in a combined 11 out of three top teams a sign of a problem?

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

That scoreline was incredibly flattering. Did you watch the game? I'd have it as one of our worst performances of the season.

Until Rooney came on tbh, and at that it was still poor

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

I agree that outside the top three yes but maybe even top four, Liverpool are not that weak in the middle. We are not far off top four and I think we will make it.

Regarding the top three I'm saying that Chelsea and Citys defensive and keeper problems are not that bad certainly not as bad as our MF problem, certainly more managble even with injuries and we are behind them in overall first 11 strenght.

City I might agree with. But imo Chelsea's lack of quality up front is just as harmful as our lack of quality in the middle. But it's not important if we don't agree on it, we're talking about fine margins on those fronts.

With regards to Liverpool, I think their squad lacks the talent of ours overall. I wouldn't accept finishing outside the top four this year because of them.

We might make it into the top four, I'll probably be giving Moyes the season to try it. But if he doesn't make it it will be because of his failings, not because the squad isn't good enough. It's the people saying that the squad aren't good enough to be in the top 4 and that it needs rebuilding that I am disagreeing with.

Backstreet Moyes

I don't know how people are comparing our midfield problems to City's defence and Chelsea's strikers.

Kompany is the best cb in the league and Zabaleta is the best rb. Clichy at the moment is better than Evra and Natasic is at least as good as Evans and Smalling. Hart although overrated imo is the 2nd best keeper behind DDG but is out of form. City probably edge us in defense, it would be close in attack and are a different league in midfield.

Chelsea in Torres and Ba are both capable of goals they are not of the quality of United or City but they have unreal service. They again in midfield are miles ahead and we probably edge defence.

Our weakness in midfield is far worse than any weakness Chelsea and City have.

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

You are talking about something else. I have been crying out for CMs to be bought for years. I know that was an issue. However it is an issue if you want to win the PL or CL, it is not so much of an issue that we should be falling outside the top four.

Thats debatable. Liverpool, Spurs, Everton and even Newcastle have as good a middle of the park as ours

Danye

Nuts102 wrote: »

I am not going to defend Moyes he has performed worse than i had expected. But just a few points to consider so far.

He comes in to replace the greatest manager of all time very tough.
Also your new CEO is somebody who has never dealt with transfers before.
You have very little time to assess the squad and get in quality replacements.
The center midfield he was left with is lower league standard bar Carrick.
His midfield signing has been terribly out of form.
The 3 best players last season and the spine of the team Ferdinand, Carrick and RVP have been injured or out of form.
Evra has been very poor and Rafael has been injured.
People complain about how it's the same tactics all season i agree the same as last season. I think with a midfield so poor you have limited options of what you are going to do tactically. Their is no life or service from the midfield.

Everything is not rosy and if he doesn't get top 4 he needs to go but i would like to let him build his own squad. Give him a chance to bring his own players and ideas.

Replacing Fergie was always going to be tough but he should of been replaced with a much better, proven manager.

The blame being levelled at Woodward is wrong IMO. The way people are going on about him you would think he's some young apprentice wet around the ears!

Saying Moyes had no time to asses the squad is also a kop out. He's played against United often enough with Everton. He would have had enough scouting reports on them over the last couple of seasons and would of known our strength and weaknesses as much as anybody.

Pro. F

Robson99 wrote: »

Thats debatable. Liverpool, Spurs, Everton and even Newcastle have as good a middle of the park as ours

Do we only play football with central midfielders now, or does the rest of the team and squad not count?

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

Edit: How is only having 4 in a combined 11 out of three top teams a sign of a problem?

In hindsight I would probably only have 3. Zabaleta would get in ahead of Rafael.

The problem is that we have nothing in the midfield in comparison to either of them.

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

Do we only play football with central midfielders now, or does the rest of the team and squad not count?

If you cant win the midfield how do you expect to win any game. Thats why we are not scoring in the big games. We are being dominated in the middle and creating nothing from it. You dont need me to explain what two proper middle of the park players do for a team

Pro. F

Nuts102 wrote: »

I don't know how people are comparing our midfield problems to City's defence and Chelsea's strikers.

Kompany is the best cb in the league and Zabaleta is the best rb. Clichy at the moment is better than Evra and Natasic is at least as good as Evans and Smalling. Hart although overrated imo is the 2nd best keeper behind DDG but is out of form. City probably edge us in defense, it would be close in attack and are a different league in midfield.

Chelsea in Torres and Ba are both capable of goals they are not of the quality of United or City but they have unreal service. They again in midfield are miles ahead and we probably edge defence.

Our weakness in midfield is far worse than any weakness Chelsea and City have.

Full backs =/= centre backs

lol at Hart being the second best 'keeper in the league. Seriously, there's no way you believe that.

Torres, Ba and Eto'o is as average a collection of strikers as Carrick, Fellaini, Cleverley, Jones and Giggs is for a collection of centre backs. Chelsea's strikers can get unreal service just like our midfielders can get away with delivering substandard service because we have unreal forwards.