Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Pro. F

Timmyctc wrote: »

None of those posts say our Squad is lesser than Those clubs. It just says their CM is better. Which is true. Hence why people were putting players like Cabaye on the wishlist. Or talking about signing Soton player (Who's name escapes me) Steven Gerrard would limp into our CM at the minute. Absolutely nothing wrong with Robson's post what.so.ever

Rayne Wooney's post said that 10th to 5th is our level. So how is that our level if our squad is better than Southampton, Newcastle, Everton, Liverpool and Spurs?

There's nothing wrong with Robson's post if you completely ignore what it was in reply to and the context of the conversation, but I showed you what it was in reply to and you know the context of the conversation.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

Here's your good self saying that there are 4 to 9 teams better than us. So aside from Chelsea, City and Arsenal I am going to assume you were talking about Newcastle, Spurs, Liverpool, Everton and Southampton plus one other.


...

In resply to me posting this: "However [our central midfield] is an issue if you want to win the PL or CL, it is not so much of an issue that we should be falling outside the top four."

I was talking about first 11 not squad, on form our squad is good enough to challenge for 4th, I was being pessimistic with my range, but as we've seen so far we could finish a lot lower than 4th if our performances don't improve. We need to strengthen our first 11 if we want to finish above Chelsea, Arsenal, and City and possibly Liverpool.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

The quote by Robson in no way says that Newcastle/Southampton etc have a better squad than us. It quite clearly does not say that. Stop making a fool of yourself.

Read both sides of the conversation.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I was talking about first 11 not squad, on form our squad is good enough to challenge for 4th, but as we've seen so far we could finish a lot lower than 4th if our performances don't improve. We need to strengthen our first 11 if we want to finish above Chelsea, Arsenal, and City.

The first 11 is part of the squad.

Chelsea, Arsenal and City have nothing to do with this conversation.

The fact that our current performances will leave us finishing below fourth does not prove that our squad is of a quality that they deserve to be there.

GSPfan

Here we go. Another quote and reply war.

bucketybuck

I think I am going to cry if the team is announced and Valencia starts again. Who does this guy have to fcuk to get dropped?

GSPfan

bucketybuck wrote: »

I think I am going to cry if the team is announced and Valencia starts again. Who does this guy have to **** to get dropped?

In the voice of the T1000 - It is inevitable.

Oranage2

GSPfan wrote: »

Here we go. Another quote and reply war.

Good point, I'm fed up reading all this negative crap, the game kicks off in an hour, why don't people get behind the team and start writing some positives so far from the season!

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

The first 11 is part of the squad.

Chelsea, Arsenal and City have nothing to do with this conversation.

The fact that our current performances will leave us finishing below fourth does not prove that our squad is of a quality that they deserve to be there.

Yes but they aren't the same thing. Evans is a good squad player, he's ready to step in when one of the main lads get injured. Cleverley is a decent squad player. Hernandez is a great squad player. Specifically saying that the first 11 need strengthening and the squad need strengthening are two different things.

Chelsea, Arsenal, City and possibly Liverpool do have relevance in this conversation because my point was that we need to strengthen our first 11 to finish higher than them.

You're basing your argument on something that can't be proven, you'll need Moyes to be sacked and his replacement, with better credentials, to finish in the top 4 with the squad we have at the moment. That's never going to happen. Using last season as am example won't work either, because Fergie is an anomaly and I doubt any manager in the world would have won the league the way he did last season, and Chelsea under Mourinho, City, Arsenal and to an extent Liverpool have all either improved or vastly improved since last season also. It's just a frivolous debate at this stage.

Thatsfootball

United twitter put up a picture of the players arriving (well RVP and Buttner) a while ago. Looks like RVP should be part of the squad anyway, judging by it.

Kerrydude1981

RVP starts as does Januzaj

Seven changes from mid week

DDG,Rafael.Evans,Vidic,Evra,Nani,Jones,Cleverly,Januzaj,Hernandez,RVP

Thatsfootball

De Gea, Rafael, Evans, Vidic, Evra, Januzaj, Cleverley, Jones, Nani, Hernandez, van Persie.

tallaghtmick

Niceeeee

Lord TSC

Happy with that team. Makes me feel more optimistic than before.

Still not overly optimistic mind...

GSPfan

Wow thats about as perfect a team sheet as you could hope for. Rafael, Adnan, Nani, Chico and RVP all in the same team.

If they all play shoite then we're fooked. Fingers crossed they destroy Newcastle. I can even overlook Cleverley in there for now.

Headshot

Only Jones and Clever the downsides for me

Would of liked to Kag playing to but he needs a rest

nullzero

Great to have RVP back. Desperately weak and inexperienced midfield though

Kerrydude1981

Hopefully a good win today will get things back on the right track again going into the Xmas period.

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

Rayne Wooney's post said that 10th to 5th is our level. So how is that our level if our squad is better than Southampton, Newcastle, Everton, Liverpool and Spurs?

That's our level at the minute because we have a poor Manager who deploys poor tactics and doesn't utilise the squad at his disposal.

Danye

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

RVP starts as does Januzaj

Seven changes from mid week

DDG,Rafael.Evans,Vidic,Evra,Nani,Jones,Cleverly,Januzaj,Hernandez,RVP

Very disappointed to see Cleverly in there.

I think a Newcastle win is on the cards.

Nalz

Danye wrote: »

Very disappointed to see Cleverly in there.

I think a Newcastle win is on the cards.

He's average and was poor vs Spurs but he's not awful and we can hopefully retain a shape and some possession, unlike how we did at home to Everton.

You calling for Fellaini or Giggs to start in CM?

He's no game winner but I'm hoping we do the basics right today and take our chances.

Disappointed with Fellaini that he hasn't hit the ground running.
Young, Valencia, Welbeck and Rio are on my very disappointed list.

Kerrydude1981

Zaha is on the bench,might see him getting a run today at some stage.

Danye

Trilla wrote: »

He's average and was poor vs Spurs but he's not awful and we can hopefully retain a shape and some possession, unlike how we did at home to Everton.

You calling for Fellaini or Giggs to start in CM?

He's no game winner but I'm hoping we do the basics right today and take our chances.

Disappointed with Fellaini that he hasn't hit the ground running.
Young, Valencia, Welbeck and Rio are on my very disappointed list.

He was very poor against Cardiff aswell.

I'd argue under Moyes we retain our shape to much. We're extremely rigid.

I wouldn't be calling for Giggs. I think Anderson should be given a chance. As an aside point but I'm not sure why we have to insist on always playing 442 with 2 in the middle of the park.

LiamoSail

Would you consider 4th place a bad season? Given united's squad is arguably the fourth best in the league, I would have thought fourth would be an acceptable finish, and a good platform for moyes to build on

Danye

LiamoSail wrote: »

Would you consider 4th place a bad season? Given united's squad is arguably the fourth best in the league, I would have thought fourth would be an acceptable finish, and a good platform for moyes to build on

If he's going to see out the season this is an absolute minimum. If not he'll be sacked.

bullvine

bullvine wrote: »

I will actually cry if Nani, Januzaj and Rafael dont start tomorrow!

WOOOOO

Ed The Equalizer

LiamoSail wrote: »

Would you consider 4th place a bad season? Given united's squad is arguably the fourth best in the league, I would have thought fourth would be an acceptable finish, and a good platform for moyes to build on

4th would be great at this stage and perhaps the bonus of something in the cups.

Paul Tergat

We could not have played Kag in that team instead of 1 of the CM's. We have 4 very attacking players in that team

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yes but they aren't the same thing. Evans is a good squad player, he's ready to step in when one of the main lads get injured. Cleverley is a decent squad player. Hernandez is a great squad player. Specifically saying that the first 11 need strengthening and the squad need strengthening are two different things.

Chelsea, Arsenal, City and possibly Liverpool do have relevance in this conversation because my point was that we need to strengthen our first 11 to finish higher than them.

The first 11 is part of the squad. It is logically impossible for the squad to be good enough to finish 4th but the first 11 to be only good enough to finish 10th to 5th.

Arsenal, Chelsea and City have no relevance to this conversation because we weren't debating whether we are good enough to finish above them. It was your claim that we aren't good enough to expect to finish above Southampton, Spurs, Newcastle, Liverpool, Everton and the like that I was arguing against.

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You're basing your argument on something that can't be proven, you'll need Moyes to be sacked and his replacement, with better credentials, to finish in the top 4 with the squad we have at the moment. That's never going to happen. Using last season as am example won't work either, because Fergie is an anomaly and I doubt any manager in the world would have won the league the way he did last season, and Chelsea under Mourinho, City, Arsenal and to an extent Liverpool have all either improved or vastly improved since last season also. It's just a frivolous debate at this stage.

Very little can be categorically proven in football. It is still laughable to suggest that our squad of players is of a quality where 10th to 5th is their right place in the league.

Kent Brockman

Re the RVP 'non-story', this was being posted on facebook last night

http://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/transfer-news/robin-van-persie-hands-transfer-2899661

Sensational headline but the story itself is all if buts and maybes???

bedrock#1

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Zaha is on the bench,might see him getting a run today at some stage.

played very well for the u21s last monday against Blackburn, scored one and could have got more. very lively.

Thepoet85

Paul Tergat wrote: »

We could not have played Kag in that team instead of 1 of the CM's. We have 4 very attacking players in that team

I think Moyes said he wasn't feeling 100% after the last game, so I think he's ill. Didn't play well midweek either, wasn't his usual self. Hopefully he'll be back soon

Paul Tergat

Thepoet85 wrote: »

I think Moyes said he wasn't feeling 100% after the last game, so I think he's ill. Didn't play well midweek either, wasn't his usual self. Hopefully he'll be back soon

aye i know he's not well. the whole scare during the week meant he couldnt play. my post was in response to a post above about wanting to see kag - we cant have it all

onemorechance

Danye wrote: »

If he's going to see out the season this is an absolute minimum. If not he'll be sacked.

No he won't. SAF emphasized the importance of backing him to the fans and he will ensure the club will do the same.

double GG

Januzaj getting a couple of early kicks on him

BigBabyTaylor

Fairly happy with the starting lineup today. Rafael nani januzaj hernandez starting, zaha on the bench. Cm still a bit worrying but should be ok. Only other player I would like to see is maybe fabio on the bench.

Danye

onemorechance wrote: »

No he won't. SAF emphasized the importance of backing him to the fans and he will ensure the club will do the same.

He will. Football is a business and the thought of United not being in the CL and the financial implications of that for the club would be massive. The club wouldn't tolerate no CL.

I don't care what SAF says. Isn't he the one that often coined the phrase that nobody is bigger than the club. That includes him and the now manager. If things aren't going according to plan he'll be gone for the greater good of the club.

I would also imagine like any job, Moyes would of had requirements and certain goals needed to be achieved included in his contract. CL football would of been one of those requirements.

GSPfan

Danye wrote: »

He will. Football is a business and the thought of United not being in the CL and the financial implications of that for the club would be massive. The club wouldn't tolerate no CL.

I don't care what SAF says. Isn't he the one that often coined the phrase that nobody is bigger than the club. That includes him and the now manager. If things aren't going according to plan he'll be gone for the greater good of the club.

I would also imagine like any job, Moyes would of had requirements and certain goals needed to be achieved included in his contract. CL football would of been one of those requirements.

Very good post. Spot on about No one bigger than the club. Moyes will see out the season for sure in my opinion. Although we will have to watch this dreadful stuff for a while unless January turns out to be a blinder of a transfer window.

onemorechance

...
"The reality is that you can't always win.

"Take Liverpool. They still sell an incredible number of shirts and have the second biggest shirt deal in the Premier League.

"They have one of the biggest technical partner deals - and they haven't won the league since 1990. And you can put the last bit underlined and in capitals.

"If we have a bad year we have the financial strength to change the team. We have so much deeper financial strength that instead of selling three players and buying three, we can do five."
...

Manchester United executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward.

Danye

I actually believe there is an element if truth to the RVP rumours. He is also clearly not fit.

KH25

Dear god Evra's defending has really gone downhill.

onemorechance

Danye wrote: »

I actually believe there is an element if truth to the RVP rumours. He is also clearly not fit.

That a player would hand in a transfer request weeks before the mid-season transfer window that if accepted would mean he'd be in-eligible to play in the Champions League?

Or that he is unhappy? I would expect that no player at United is happy with the performances and league position.

GSPfan

The longer it stays 0-0 the more likely it is we will lose. Bit depressing.

Danye

onemorechance wrote: »

That a player would hand in a transfer request weeks before the mid-season transfer window that if accepted would mean he'd be in-eligible to play in the Champions League?

Or that he is unhappy? I would expect that no player at United is happy with the performances and league position.

I don't think he's officially handed in a transfer request but I believe he's aired his issues with the manager and the board. I think it's clear that he's also unhappy.

Danye

GSPfan wrote: »

The longer it stays 0-0 the more likely it is we will lose. Bit depressing.

It's written all over it.

J. Marston

Moyes has to be sacked.

tallaghtmick

Danye wrote: »

It's written all over it.

There we go. 1-0

GSPfan

What is it with Phil Jones where he manages to injure himself every game from going awkwardly into tackles. Mad yoke.

There's the expected Newcastle goal. At least its a bit early.

KH25

Evra needs to go. Awful, awful defending.

Quandary

The match thread is going downhill fast, much like our chances at top 4.