Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

TheDoc

People need to put aside the love affinity for Chico and come to terms with the realisation of his limitations. He is a glorious finisher with tremendous movement.

But in the evolving role of the striker, Chico just simply does not posses the ability and outside of the box know how to lead the line for a top European club. It's really as simple as that. He is a striker who is literally built for the 90's, not the 00's.

Will I Amnt

TheDoc wrote: »

People need to put aside the love affinity for Chico and come to terms with the realisation of his limitations. He is a glorious finisher with tremendous movement.

But in the evolving role of the striker, Chico just simply does not posses the ability and outside of the box know how to lead the line for a top European club. It's really as simple as that. He is a striker who is literally built for the 90's, not the 00's.

Have to disagree. If you can put the ball into the net as regular as him you can have an excellent career at the top. He's just unfortunate with who he's competing with.

Mario Gomez did it for a long time with Bayern and Germany. Mandzukic is currently doing it. Lewandowski is not anywhere near the complete player.
Goals are the single most important thing in football.

bren2001

Al Capwned wrote: »

That was an amazing decision tbh, but I cant see it lasting very long. Whatever about the second leg in the WC playoffs (which is just a formality now) there's no way a manager would bring a team to a WC without all their best players.
Surely.
Is there?

He said that by the time the players had arrived in Mexico they would not be settled in time for the game i.e. jet lag. So he didnt bother calling them over and just went with Mexican based players. He won 5-1, so got away with it.

He will bring the European based players to the WC.

tallaghtmick

TheDoc wrote: »

People need to put aside the love affinity for Chico and come to terms with the realisation of his limitations. He is a glorious finisher with tremendous movement.

But in the evolving role of the striker, Chico just simply does not posses the ability and outside of the box know how to lead the line for a top European club. It's really as simple as that. He is a striker who is literally built for the 90's, not the 10's.

FYP :pac:

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

People need to put aside the love affinity for Chico and come to terms with the realisation of his limitations. He is a glorious finisher with tremendous movement.

But in the evolving role of the striker, Chico just simply does not posses the ability and outside of the box know how to lead the line for a top European club. It's really as simple as that. He is a striker who is literally built for the 90's, not the 00's.

As a lone frontman role, you are probably correct. However, I would say his greatly improved link play mean he is well suited to a front two. He won't hold the ball up as well as RVP, for example, but there are generally no big issues with his game anymore. His control and passing are more than fine at this point - he is a far better player outside of the box than he was 2 years ago.

DM_7

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Have to disagree. If you can put the ball into the net as regular as him you can have an excellent career at the top. He's just unfortunate with who he's competing with.

Mario Gomez did it for a long time with Bayern and Germany. Mandzukic is currently doing it. Lewandowski is not anywhere near the complete player.
Goals are the single most important thing in football.

Sorry to be that guy but Lewandowski and Mandzukic are miles ahead of Gomes (or Chica) in play outside the box. Mandzukic in particular excels at holding up play and works very hard outside the box.

Backstreet Moyes

Hernandez would be unreal for a team that play quick counter attacking football like Madrid or Dortmund. People really need to open their eyes he has improved massively his all round game. Is his all round game world class no but his finishing is world class. He is up their with the best finishers and is the best finisher at the club. He is unlucky he is competing with Rooney and RVP pity would love to see him given a chance. The year we got to the Champions league final is the only time he got a regular run in the team and he was scoring for fun. His game is far better now pity he won't get a run of games.

keane2097

DM-ICE wrote: »

Sorry to be that guy but Lewandowski and Mandzukic are miles ahead of Gomes (or Chica) in play outside the box. Mandzukic in particular excels at holding up play and works very hard outside the box.

+1 I don't know how you would even begin to compare Mandzukic and Lewandowski to Hernandez, vastly different types of player. Might as well compare him to Rooney.

IamtheWalrus

The great thing about the Teddy/Cole/Yorke/Ole foursome was that Fergie didn't seem to have any hesitation of using any combination. That doesn't seem to be the case with the current 4. RVP and Wazza are rarely rotated, understandably so.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

People need to put aside the love affinity for Chico and come to terms with the realisation of his limitations. He is a glorious finisher with tremendous movement.

But in the evolving role of the striker, Chico just simply does not posses the ability and outside of the box know how to lead the line for a top European club. It's really as simple as that. He is a striker who is literally built for the 90's, not the 00's.

This idea that football is solved any time a pattern emerges amongst top teams is completely wrong.

Delboy5

For anyone interested...
MANCHESTER UNITED PLC: 2014 First Quarter Results:

http://ir.manutd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=133303&p=RssLanding&cat=news&id=1876271&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Unearthly

SantryRed wrote: »

It's five months old but not sure if many people have seen it. Even as a non United fan, it's a pretty cool video. Compilation of United late goals from 1992-2013.

Not sure how to embed Vimeo videos!

http://vimeo.com/67305423

Great video and amazing to think it's missing a lot of goals to

Will I Amnt

keane2097 wrote: »

+1 I don't know how you would even begin to compare Mandzukic and Lewandowski to Hernandez, vastly different types of player. Might as well compare him to Rooney.

I wasn't comparing the type of player. Their goal records make up for anything else they lack. I don't think either are exceptionally good footballers.

Maximus Alexander

Delboy5 wrote: »

For anyone interested...
MANCHESTER UNITED PLC: 2014 First Quarter Results:

http://ir.manutd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=133303&p=RssLanding&cat=news&id=1876271&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The slightly worrying part hidden in the middle there, if you're prepared to read between the lines:

For fiscal 2014, Manchester United continues to expect:

• Revenue to be £420m to £430m.
• Adjusted EBITDA to be £128m to £133m.

This assumes the team finishes third in the FA Premier League and reaches the quarter-finals of the UEFA Champions League and the domestic cups.

We now know what targets have been set for Moyes.

dahat

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

The slightly worrying part hidden in the middle there, if you're prepared to read between the lines:



We now know what targets have been set for Moyes.

All those targets were well documented early in the year, in fact i would go so far as to say that these are the set targets for each year no matter who the manager is or was.

Your Airbag

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

The slightly worrying part hidden in the middle there, if you're prepared to read between the lines:



We now know what targets have been set for Moyes.

I can see us hitting both those targets tbh

Maximus Alexander

Your Airbag wrote: »

I can see us hitting both those targets tbh

So can I. I'm just concerned that if that is indeed the expectation of the board, it doesn't bode well four the next transfer window. There's a bit of a smell of Arsenal off that.

Maybe I'm being alarmist.

martinr5232

They are only projections based on the prize money from finishing in those positions in those competetions.

So it could be better could be worse but thats what they always base theyre projections on.

TheDoc

Was away for the last while didn't see the replies.

Some poor assumptions about Mandzukic and Lewa there aside, Chico simply just cannot and will not find his way into the first team anytime soon. Exclusive poachers are few and far between. Of course goals are important, I'm not denying that, but the way chances are being carved is changing.

It's not the style of teams anymore to hit the byline and whip in a cross. It still happens, but more frequent not is intricate build-up play across a front line, and then the inevitable finish.

Look at Soldado now at Spurs. He did well with Valencia who had a more direct approach last season in terms of firing balls in from wide and his short movement got him space, and his finishing got him goals. Spurs play a more slower build up, where he is totally useless. Putting a square peg into a round hole.

Chico is the same. Depsite the fact he simply can't get ahead of Rooney and RVP at present, his general play is pretty weak, and while there has been some improvements, simply not enough for a top European side.

He will no doubt have a chance with a team that plays two up front, but what top teams in Europe play two up front week in week out ?

I am resigned to the fact he will leave, but will most likely have to take a step backwards in terms of club. Pity, as I really like him, and he simply is one of those players who came along at the wrong time.

Crimson King

dahat wrote: »

All those targets were well documented early in the year, in fact i would go so far as to say that these are the set targets for each year no matter who the manager is or was.

Exactly, I remember similar targets when United were demoted to the Europa League a few seasons back. People were saying the club will suffer hugely financially and others argued that the predicted revenues took possible less successful seasons into account.

The targets were based on the club finishing third in the League, semi final of a domestic cup and last 16 of the Champions League. I am open to correction on this but its the clubs way of not over selling their revenue expectations. So when they achieve more they look even better too.

Julez

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

So can I. I'm just concerned that if that is indeed the expectation of the board, it doesn't bode well four the next transfer window. There's a bit of a smell of Arsenal off that.

Maybe I'm being alarmist.

It would be bad bussiness to assume that we will win everything! Those are probably based on lowest expectations, and I'd image the same projections would be made if Fergie were in charge too.

keane2097

Will I Amnt wrote: »

I wasn't comparing the type of player. Their goal records make up for anything else they lack. I don't think either are exceptionally good footballers.

Huh? The whole reason Mandzukic and Lewandowski are so good is because of their superb link up play.

The whole reason Bayern brought in Mandzukic to replace Gomez is that while Gomez was an excellent goal getter he didn't have the ability to link up well with the players farther back. Mandzukic isn't as good a goalscorer but is a far better all around player within their system.

Lewandowski is coveted by them because he's as good as either of them at both aspects.

The only valid comparison to Hernandez is Gomez, who was replaced at Bayern for the exact reason that goal records aren't enough.

TheDoc

keane2097 wrote: »

The only valid comparison to Hernandez is Gomez, who was replaced at Bayern for the exact reason that goal records aren't enough.

See people quickly respond that goals mean everything which is true. They just overlook/bypass the conversation about creating goals.

When you look at Chico play, he rarely, if ever, is directly responsible for "creating" or "starting" a goal. Look there is absolutely no denying his ability at scoring, but so many games he start's he just isn't threatening or part of progressive build up.

He is so good at coming off the bench to score because at the time we are normally hammering teams, piling on pressure, and he will unlock a fraction of space to score.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Was away for the last while didn't see the replies.

Some poor assumptions about Mandzukic and Lewa there aside, Chico simply just cannot and will not find his way into the first team anytime soon. Exclusive poachers are few and far between. Of course goals are important, I'm not denying that, but the way chances are being carved is changing.

It's not the style of teams anymore to hit the byline and whip in a cross. It still happens, but more frequent not is intricate build-up play across a front line, and then the inevitable finish.

Look at Soldado now at Spurs. He did well with Valencia who had a more direct approach last season in terms of firing balls in from wide and his short movement got him space, and his finishing got him goals. Spurs play a more slower build up, where he is totally useless. Putting a square peg into a round hole.

Chico is the same. Depsite the fact he simply can't get ahead of Rooney and RVP at present, his general play is pretty weak, and while there has been some improvements, simply not enough for a top European side.

He will no doubt have a chance with a team that plays two up front, but what top teams in Europe play two up front week in week out ?

I am resigned to the fact he will leave, but will most likely have to take a step backwards in terms of club. Pity, as I really like him, and he simply is one of those players who came along at the wrong time.

No it is really not. You're looking at the style of two teams, Barca and Bayern, and extrapolating a wider trend that just isn't there.

And in terms of formation you're making him out to be some sort of conundrum, he's not. Man Utd, City, Liverpool, Juve, Milan, to name a few - you really think those teams couldn't slot him in straight away the way they play?

He may well take a step down in club if he leaves United. That's hardly significant, there aren't many sideways or vertical steps available to a player leaving a club like United.

TheDoc wrote: »

See people quickly respond that goals mean everything which is true. They just overlook/bypass the conversation about creating goals.

When you look at Chico play, he rarely, if ever, is directly responsible for "creating" or "starting" a goal. Look there is absolutely no denying his ability at scoring, but so many games he start's he just isn't threatening or part of progressive build up.

He is so good at coming off the bench to score because at the time we are normally hammering teams, piling on pressure, and he will unlock a fraction of space to score.

And yet goal poachers just like Chico have forged careers at the very top of the game for decades. Now all of a sudden that's not possible? Why?

Cantona's Collars

M E N has a list of the top 9 targets we've been most strongly linked with,if we get 3 of them then January will be a good month.

Iniesta is FF stuff,but you just never know.I think a couple of players from other La Liga teams are more feasible.

magnumbud

zerks wrote: »

M E N has a list of the top 9 targets we've been most strongly linked with,if we get 3 of them then January will be a good month.

Iniesta is FF stuff,but you just never know.I think a couple of players from other La Liga teams are more feasible.

i would say hope for 1 and anything else is a bonus to you then. i would not expect 3 in january possibly 2 but unlikely

MagicIRL

zerks wrote: »

M E N has a list of the top 9 targets we've been most strongly linked with,if we get 3 of them then January will be a good month.

Iniesta is FF stuff,but you just never know.I think a couple of players from other La Liga teams are more feasible.

Link for the lazy! http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/david-moyes-eyes-andres-iniesta-6303711

Rayne Wooney

Marca reported that Madrid are looking at Gundogan for €30m

He's exactly what we need, he used to be a playmaker but was tailored into the holding position by Dortmund.

If we're looking to buy the best players you have to consider him.

bullvine

I see Lahm is playing Centre Midfield for Bayern, is Martinez getting much game time?

Robson99

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Marca reported that Madrid are looking at Gundogan for €30m

He's exactly what we need, he used to be a playmaker but was tailored into the holding position by Dortmund.

Probably see Gundogan going to Madrid and we getting Khedira, although I think Modric would be perfect for us

Vic Vinegar

Robson99 wrote: »

Probably see Gundogan going to Madrid and we getting Khedira, although I think Modric would be perfect for us

Any of those three would be splendiferous really.

Gundogan would be first choice for me though out of those.

Headshot

I can see why Moyes wouldnt pick Zaha since he over does it way to much but surely he would bring something alot more to the team compared to Young

Paul Tergat

Michael Keane scored for England U21s

Cantona's Collars

Madrid are lining up more expensive buys but it looks like they're days of living beyond their means could be soon coming to an end.Can only be good news for us if it comes to pass.

Just read an interview with the owner of Monaco,he considered buying United but preferred the weather & central location of Monaco so chose them.

Kylo Ren

zerks wrote: »

Just read an interview with the owner of Monaco,he considered buying United but preferred the weather & central location of Monaco so chose them.

I'd say the price was the biggest determinant. How much did he buy Monaco for?

United are worth about $3.2bn, not adding the debt and he is worth around $9.5bn.

Buying out over 50% of United would be a big chunk of change compared to Monaco.

Will I Amnt

Probably some tax benefits too...
Sounds like a bit of mouthing off more than anything.

Cantona's Collars

Anyone who was at the Arsenal game see if you can find yourself in the crowd.

http://fanpic.huggity.com/245-2013-manutd_arsenal/app/index.php

Your Airbag

CR7 on Rooney

“[Wayne Rooney] has his own style. But with his hair he looks much better. He looks very good now. Before he was a little bit ugly, but now, with hair, he’s beautiful.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/cristiano-ronaldo-claims-his-real-madrid-teammates-including-gareth-bale-all-love-his-new-range-of-boxers-8939244.html

MD1990

Your Airbag wrote: »

CR7 on Rooney



http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/cristiano-ronaldo-claims-his-real-madrid-teammates-including-gareth-bale-all-love-his-new-range-of-boxers-8939244.html

that whole article is a troll

The_Kew_Tour

Fellaini played full 90 minutes against Columbia tonight.

Lost 2-0 hit the post apparently.

Kerrydude1981

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Fellaini played full 90 minutes against Columbia tonight.

Lost 2-0 hit the post apparently.

Is the post alright?

The_Kew_Tour

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Is the post alright?

as close as he will score all season if you are to have the belief of some here:pac:

Kerrydude1981

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

as close as he will score all season if you are to have the belief of some here:pac:

I was reading this article earlier,then went through the suggested transfer targets,Alex Witsel is included,

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/david-moyes-eyes-andres-iniesta-6303711

Witsel and Fellaini in midfield all that would be missing is a bit of disco music

hufpc8w3adnk65

zerks wrote: »

Anyone who was at the Arsenal game see if you can find yourself in the crowd.

http://fanpic.huggity.com/245-2013-manutd_arsenal/app/index.php

Can't find my self ha ha

hufpc8w3adnk65

MrMac84 wrote: »

Can't find my self ha ha

Sorted ha ha

Winston Payne

Santa Claus looking a bit concerned in the bottom left there.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Winston Payne wrote: »

Santa Claus looking a bit concerned in the bottom left there.

As am I centre screen black beenie

F.J.

The Sun saying United are going to offer Rooney a new deal

https://twitter.com/suttonnick

Can't do enough for him can they.

Your Airbag

Moyes poaches Premier League's head of elite development... who helped bring through Rooney and Barkley

David Moyes has taken the first step in his promised restructuring of Manchester United in the wake of Sir Alex Ferguson’s retirement by poaching the Premier League’s head of elite development to work as part of his coaching set-up at Old Trafford.

It is understood that United are currently discussing severance terms with the Premier League over the highly-rated John Murtough, the man who was partly responsible for bringing through a teenage Wayne Rooney during one of two stints working with United boss Moyes during his years at Everton

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2507536/David-Moyes-poaches-John-Murtough--Premier-League-head-elite-development.html

Donnielighto

Murtough? He's too old for this shiit.