Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Mr.Prodston

kona wrote: »

They can of course but , it has to be adressed. He threw 27million at the team, so tried to but brought in fellaini.

Also a Team doesnt decline as fast as United are here, also according to some people united are always in decline. The team there is good enough for top4. They are under achieving.

All I'm doing is addressing the question why asked if Moyes deserved to still be in the job.

I'm not blind to the problems and am as worried as anyone but just simply trying to keep a level head. Fellaini is only part of the puzzle he's trying to solve and he needs to sign in Jan and the Summer. I just hate seeing people losing it because we've had a poor few months.

Moving on from the Ferguson Era will be a marathon, not a sprint.

homerjay2005

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Last season, lost 5 league games all season. Won the league

This season, lost 5 games already.

Lost at home to West Brom for first time in 30+ years,
Lost at home to Everton for first time in 20+ years
Lost at home to Newcastle for first time in 40+ years

8 goals scored at home in the league, failed to score in 3 home games.

Fook me that's awful.

do you think he should stay or go?

actually, can a mod add a poll please? still expect support for Moyes, but if it was at 90% two weeks ago, id expect it to be at about 40% now.

kona

Gringo180 wrote: »

If anybody believes Utds decline this season is 100% down to Moyes they are deluded.

Is that not the point? New era, we need a manager who has a plan and know exactley how to execute it and rebuid the team.

Fair enough moyes didnt get the players he wanted in the summer, but the way he went about it was like somebody playing football manager for the first time and learning the ropes. You learn the ropes at a smaller team.

At manchester united you need to win end of.

Look at what Fergie did and look what Moyes did with the same team. We havnt scored in 180mins at home. Fergie won the league.

Same teams except moyes has invested 30 million into it.

Lord TSC

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Moving on from the Ferguson Era will be a marathon, not a sprint.

Agreed, but it feels like Moyes is the fat guy in a costume who has fallen on his face at the starting line...

adox

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

I'm not blind to the problems and am as worried as anyone but just simply trying to keep a level head.

Believe me when I say my comments this last week have been posted with a level head, not knee jerk reactions.

I can only see Moyes continuing n the job as a negative for Utd.

BloodBath

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

Fellaini is only part of the puzzle he's trying to solve and he needs to sign in Jan and the Summer.

Fellaini doesn't fit into the team though. He's not the answer to our midfield problems. He is neither a good defensive midfielder nor a good playmaking ball controller. His only good season at Everton was playing behind the striker which he has no chance of doing at United. So why did we spend 27.5m for a player who has no place in the team?

elius

No one has mentioned the loss off Michael Carrick and show his importance to the team. Since he's been injured we have

Won 1
Drawn 2
Loss 2

Vic Vinegar

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do you think he should stay or go?

actually, can a mod add a poll please? still expect support for Moyes, but if it was at 90% two weeks ago, id expect it to be at about 40% now.

I'm torn at the minute to be honest.... It's starting to look decidedly grim though.

kona

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

All I'm doing is addressing the question why asked if Moyes deserved to still be in the job.

I'm not blind to the problems and am as worried as anyone but just simply trying to keep a level head. Fellaini is only part of the puzzle he's trying to solve and he needs to sign in Jan and the Summer. I just hate seeing people losing it because we've had a poor few months.

Moving on from the Ferguson Era will be a marathon, not a sprint.

Im sorry but I dont settle for that.
Manchester United need to win , were not some team like Everton who are happy just to compete.

Just keep the team performing, then invest in the areas needed with quality, Top4 should be easily got with these players.

Moyes is not doing this. Its not good enough.

Look at all the managers chelsea have had, they didnt decline to this level. He needs to go.

dixiefly

I think that most supporters realise that it is not all Moyes fault.

In my opinion the main problems goes back to Ferguson and Gill for

a. leaving their positions at the same time.
b. leaving a team with a huge hole in midfield.
c. pushing the club into appointing Moyes and not really giving the club a proper opportunity to assess Mourinho or another European manager.
d. Accepting that a Ferguson me too would be good enough in the current football world.

However....Moyes would have always known that the buck would stop with him if things started to go downhill and he has not shown the charisma, leadership and ambition on the pitch to really show that he can take the club on from where we are at the moment. Moyes did not hit the ground running (from what I can see anyway) and his statement during the summer that United had a good enough squad and did not need a major signing was either a naive statement or he was already taking an official line.

I think that we need a director of Football appointed with Woodward and Moyes reporting in. The appointment needs to be as soon as possible once the correct individual is identified and Ferguson needs to have ZERO influence on the decision. We need to identify things as basic as to what type of football best suits the players / club and put in place a strategy that when we do rise again that we develop a team not only able to compete in the Premiership but competes well in Europe also. If there was an obvious direction with even slow incremental improvement then most United fans would be happy. We are not expecting to win the Premiership every year especially with the money that clubs like City and Chelsea have to throw around.

Oregano_State

Oregano_State wrote: »

The main difference between United this season and last is that Carrick and RVP have been/are injured and out of form.

elius wrote: »

No one has mentioned the loss off Michael Carrick and show his importance to the team.

I did. Pretty sure more people have too if you care to look back a bit to before the game.

adox

elius wrote: »

No one has mentioned the loss off Michael Carrick and show his importance to the team. Since he's been injured we have

Won 1
Drawn 2
Loss 2

In the last couple of seasons I'd agree but even with Carrick in the team Utd this season,have been awful and conceding goals.

Carrick has also been very poor this season.

newballsplease

homerjay2005 wrote: »

is there anybody on here, who think Moyes still deserves to stay in the job?

I do. Time is needed. I do think he may need to alter his training regime however. The players look wrecked.
Stability is the key to a succesful club.
If the owners of Arsenal listened to their fans Wenger would have been gone a year ago, if not more.
Look at them now(although i know it MAY not last).

Lord TSC

elius wrote: »

No one has mentioned the loss off Michael Carrick and show his importance to the team. Since he's been injured we have

Won 1
Drawn 2
Loss 2

Out of interest, for comparison, what were the stats before he got hurt?

Giggsy11

How is this anyone's fault apart from Moyes. We have/had fantastic team apart from 1 or 2 midfielders and he didn't address it.

Out attacking play is so **** it's beyond acidulous.

BloodBath

newballsplease wrote: »

I do. Time is needed. I do think he may need to alter his training regime however. The players look wrecked.
Stability is the key to a succesful club.
If the owners of Arsenal listened to their fans Wenger would have been gone a year ago, if not more.
Look at them now(although i know it MAY not last).

Arsenal have had a champions league place in all of that time. We won't get one this season. They have also always played good football.

The one thing I can't understand is why there is no intensity in our game. Players are sleepwalking through matches. There doesn't seem to be any fight. Granted, hoofing the ball from back to front isn't exactly inspiring stuff, but the levels of performances from a lot of the players is well below par.

We can get bogged down in arguments about whether Nani or Cleverly or whoever it happens to be today are good enough etc, but the one thing we could all agree on about any United player is they were always fully committed.

I didn't see much of that today, and I haven't seen much of it all season. Bar maybe Jones today at one stage in the first half trying to win the ball with a few challenges, and you could see that United were crying out for that, the crowd responded automatically trying to get the team going but then Utd went limp again.

Is this down to the manager? How are we actually trying to play? I'm struggling to work out what way Moyes wants this United side to play. I have been of the opinion that Moyes needs two years and then we can judge him, and I don't want to turn against him based on our recent results. But I'm struggling to see what it is he is trying to make the team do. Surely the plan isn't what we have witnessed for most of the season; one dimensional, insipid hoof ball and predictable wing play? If I could see some shape or form of a long term plan being molded I'd be more optimistic, but this doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

There doesn't seem to be a plan. Its play this game and see if we win. If that doesn't work play the next game the same way with some different players and see what happens. People are saying we need some new players, and we probably do, but the best midfielders in the world would have been watching the ball float over their heads today if they were playing for us.

Moyes today when the goal went in looked utterly lost. Alone. Afraid. That is not what I would have been expecting from him. I never watched much of Everton, but from what I did see, his teams always seemed up for it, if somewhat limited in certain areas. We look somewhat limited today and not up for it at all.

I dunno.

Giggsy11

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do you think he should stay or go?

actually, can a mod add a poll please? still expect support for Moyes, but if it was at 90% two weeks ago, id expect it to be at about 40% now.

It's like someone said, ManUtd are too adamant to admit they made a mistake. They have to prove we are something special by giving manager time so no matter what he won't be sacked.

Prop Joe

What player could be brought in Jan to make the difference ?

Lord TSC

homerjay2005 wrote: »

do you think he should stay or go?

actually, can a mod add a poll please? still expect support for Moyes, but if it was at 90% two weeks ago, id expect it to be at about 40% now.

A poll is useless unless we can limit it to United fans. Otherwise, you're going to get figures with zero relevance that are skewed by non-fans...

Hank Scorpio

People keep saying top 4 should easily be got with these players but is that really the case. You're up against money bags Chelsea and City, a great team like Arsenal then good sides like Liverpool , Spurs, Everton etc

Looking at the United team, De Gea is great. Evra has been poor for a while now. The backbone of the defense Vidic and Rio is gone. Rafael is a good player. Midfield is an obvious weakness, outside of Michael Carrick there are no persistent performers. Adnan has been a shining light but hes still very raw. The strength of the team lies up front with Rooney and RVP.

Yes this squad won the league last season but the impact Ferguson had on this squad shouldn't be underestimated, Rio Vidic Evra all seem to have rapidly declined. When people like Carrick get injured the quality just isn't there to bridge the gap

yabadabado

it was extremely depressing watching the game today.So many problems-style of play,lack of intensity,players not preforming.
It's hard to believe that this team cantered to the league last season.
Moyes has to take a lot of the blame but he is't 100% to blame,I think the players really need to have a look at themselves,so many of them under performing.
Do any of ye think the players just don't respect fear Moyes?I know it's Moyes job to get the best out of his squad but that is near impossible if the players aren't on your side.

Vic Vinegar

Prop Joe wrote: »

What player could be brought in Jan to make the difference ?

We need to break the bank for Keane 2.0.... Gundogan or someone like that. Fook the cost, just pay what it takes. That would be a start.

edgecutter

2 points from 12 isn't good enough. We weren't playing City, Chelsea, liverpool or Aresnal, we were playing some mid table teams(except spurs) and we have looked the worse team in all of those games.

Moyes has done an awful job since he has arrived(23 points dropped this season, when we dropped only 25 in the whole of last season), the team look unmotivated and have no clue what they should be doing.

Yes, we need new players, but if Moyes is going to throw money at Everton like he has done with Felliani, then we have no hope with this guy.

adox

nuxxx wrote: »

People keep saying top 4 should easily be got with these players but is that really the case. You're up against money bags Chelsea and City, a great team like Arsenal then good sides like Liverpool , Spurs, Everton etc

Looking at the United team, De Gea is great. Evra has been poor for a while now. The backbone of the defense Vidic and Rio is gone. Rafael is a good player. Midfield is an obvious weakness, outside of Michael Carrick there are no persistent performers. Adnan has been a shining light but hes still very raw. The strength of the team lies up front with Rooney and RVP.

Yes this squad won the league last season but the impact Ferguson had on this squad shouldn't be underestimated, Rio Vidic Evra all seem to have rapidly declined. When people like Carrick get injured the quality just isn't there to bridge the gap

Of course that squad are good enough for 4th place. I wouldn't have even thought that was up for debate?

Burt Macklin

adox wrote: »

Of course that squad are good enough for 4th place. I wouldn't have even thought that was up for debate?

It was good enough to win the league at a canter last year, and beat the second placed team in the Bundesliga 5-0 away.

Lord TSC

It genuinely shocks me that some people seem keener to dump the players over the manager; the players who won us the league last year at a canter and have given us years of glory, but are being tossed aside for a manager who is with us 6 months and has proven absolutely nothing...

Chagan

nuxxx wrote: »

People keep saying top 4 should easily be got with these players but is that really the case. You're up against money bags Chelsea and City, a great team like Arsenal then good sides like Liverpool , Spurs, Everton etc

Looking at the United team, De Gea is great. Evra has been poor for a while now. The backbone of the defense Vidic and Rio is gone. Rafael is a good player. Midfield is an obvious weakness, outside of Michael Carrick there are no persistent performers. Adnan has been a shining light but hes still very raw. The strength of the team lies up front with Rooney and RVP.

Yes this squad won the league last season but the impact Ferguson had on this squad shouldn't be underestimated, Rio Vidic Evra all seem to have rapidly declined. When people like Carrick get injured the quality just isn't there to bridge the gap

This should have been addressed by the management already. An ageing pair of CBs, a shambolic midfield and an over reliance on RVP are things that were obvious at the end of last season. Given the quality of competition you've mentioned it should have been clear to all in charge that sitting around and doing nothing wouldn't be enough.

kona

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

It genuinely shocks me that some people seem keener to dump the players over the manager; the players who won us the league last year at a canter and have given us years of glory, but are being tossed aside for a manager who is with us 6 months and has proven absolutely nothing...

Hes proven something :pac:

yabadabado

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

We need to break the bank for Keane 2.0.... Gundogan or someone like that. Fook the cost, just pay what it takes. That would be a start.

that should have been done in the summer but Woodward seem to be low balling teams and we ended up with Fellaini who was overpriced and has preformed so far.
If Moyes is gonna be given time ,then the board need to back him in the transfer window and imo he needs 2 top players -a winger and a centre midfielder.Gundogan would be a dream signing and I dont think it will happen.

Hank Scorpio

adox wrote: »

Of course that squad are good enough for 4th place. I wouldn't have even thought that was up for debate?

I think they're good enough to get CL too, not debating that. Just feel compared to teams like Chelsea City etc we are a long way away especially now since Fergies gone

Cantona's Collars

Chelsea losing.

Lord TSC

zerks wrote: »

Chelsea losing.

Nope. :P

kona

nuxxx wrote: »

I think they're good enough to get CL too, not debating that. Just feel compared to teams like Chelsea City etc we are a long way away especially now since Fergies gone

To win the league you need to be consistent, just keep the points ticking over and be in the mix at "squeeky bum time"

You dont have to beat these teams to win the league. You have to win against the likes of Everton, Cardiff, Southampton, West Brom, Newcastle.

Sure we beat arsenal lol:D

sky88

Well chelsea won the champions league when they were crap in the league maybe we can too



Yes ive resorted to clutching at straws

Cantona's Collars

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Nope. :P

Didn't take long,unlike us.

Cantona's Collars

OG gets a hat trick at Anfield,when was the last time he played for us?

bryangiggsy

Stretford end still fully behind moyes coming off the pitch. The changes made in second half did not work. Newcastle had more possesion after them. Is team fitness also an issue ?

Burt Macklin

zerks wrote: »

OG gets a hat trick at Anfield,when was the last time he played for us?

He had a fine season in 09/10 I think, wasn't he our third top scorer after Rooney and Berbatov?

titan18

Don't know if it'd work out, but Pochettino really wouldn't be a bad manager to have. At least, he seems to have a definite plan and style on how he wants the team to play and can find players to suit that system

Pro. F

elius wrote: »

No one has mentioned the loss off Michael Carrick and show his importance to the team. Since he's been injured we have

Won 1
Drawn 2
Loss 2

Loads of people have, but they are wrong. With Carrick in the team our performances and results were similarly bad: we drew with Southampton at home; lost to West Brom at home and lost 4-1 to City away. Same level of performances, same crap results.

Discodog

One option is that Moyes resigns on health or personal grounds. SAF is appointed caretaker until a new manager arrives.

Moyes looks totally lost & he's under immense pressure. His lack of confidence or belief is affecting the players.

How can you expect top players to be motivated by Round & Neville?

Zico

Half the squad expect to be at the World Cup next summer, that's more than at most clubs even if it includes the likes of Welbeck and Cleverley. I still think Utd have a better squad than Arsenal for example, which has counted for a lot in the past especially around February/March when teams with great starting XIs have to start plugging gaps with their reserves who are usually a standard far below Utd's Welbecks and Cleverleys.

3rd best squad in the division imho.

newballsplease

Lads Ferguson IS NOT gonna be taking over any management role again.
Simple as.



I cant actually believe some people think he might....
WTF

titan18

Discodog wrote: »

One option is that Moyes resigns on health or personal grounds. SAF is appointed caretaker until a new manager arrives.

Moyes looks totally lost & he's under immense pressure. His lack of confidence or belief is affecting the players.

How can you expect top players to be motivated by Round & Neville?

Going back to Ferguson would be a terrible decision. Need to move on from him rather than going back when things go bad. I'd prefer a manager like Hiddink, Heynckes etc being brought in as an interim manager, or just for a year or two, and doing everything to get someone like Klopp, Simeone to take over for the long term

Burt Macklin

If Fergie came back it would be like Busby all over again. Would probably do more harm than good.

SirDelboy18

I don't really know what can be said. First of all, lets not pretend that we have been playing great football for years, we haven't. Our standard of football this season is worse, for sure, though. Fergie made so many questionable calls, similar to Moyes - but with one critical difference, if you are getting results and winning then essentially you aren't going to get criticised. If you are losing and playing poorly then you deserve everything you get.

Moyes inherited a squad full in need of definite reinforcements, not a sinking ship as many have said. I'd honestly say that we had a number of players who could form the spine of our next great team - There is one of the greatest keepers in the world (in my view), Evans, Smalling, Jones, Rafael, Welbeck, Hernandez, Januzaj, Zaha. Not many top sides can boast so much relative quality youth.

This summer was an atrocity by anybodies standards. The stumbling around in the transfer market which led to us paying massively over the odds for a player Moyes and his staff know inside out. Failed pursuits of high profile players and while the blame there lies a lot with the board, Moyes definitely needs to take some blame.

He replaced all the backroom staff, which was a gamble and if it had paid off then it would have been great for him. "Moyes is his own man", "He isn't living under Fergusons shadow" they would say. But how great would it be if the players had a familiar face from the coaching staff around - for all their muppetry since, one of Phelan and Meulensteen would be worth a lot right about now in that dressing room.

Performances have been bad, and because he isn't winning like I already mentioned he deserves criticism. While I did say that we haven't played well for a long time, performances like today aren't a rarity under Moyes, they are the norm, and they are simply not acceptable. His decisions at the moment strike me of desperation - the unfit RVP staying on for 90, throwing on Zaha for his first league game when losing at home in December, throwing on Anderson who you have barely played, just some highlights of today. That he left Fellaini out of the squad today says so much.

He has gotten unlucky with injuries so that too is worth bearing in mind. If Ferguson had to deal with an extended injury to RVP and Carrick, never mind both at once, I guarantee he would not have won that league

Having said that, rumors of overtraining and other backroom problems clouding his tenure - Carrick and RVP noticably complaining about it and those two being injured might or not be a coincidence. His press conferences and dealings with the media have been nothing short of a nightmare and certain peculiar things like Rio's comments yesterday would leave you to believe something isn't right.

He clearly needs to spend in January but if he can't get this group to play for him then why would it be any different with new players. At this stage, to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't trust him with a Trocaire box and if the rumors about Baines' renewed chase are true, then that is truly uninspiring. When you go from Everton to Man Utd it's like going from the corner shop to Harrods, yet Moyes only wants to go back to that same old shop, the same old comforts in every aspect of his time here.

I feel it would be foolish to sack him right now but to be honest I see no evidence that the situation will improve. If you miss out on the Champions League once you threaten to enter into a dangerous spiral. I highly doubt that this side will make top 4 and for all his cajoling of Rooney, will he stick around for the Europa League and F.A cup runs? Will Van Persie? Will Januzaj? De Gea? One of the problems with the appointment was his lack of experience. Never before has that been more relevant - the man has literally no idea what to do, because how could he? He is only figuring it out as he goes along. And that just worries me.

What is more worrying is that in Woodward's comments, highlighting Liverpool as a club who have remained highly commercially successful despite poor performances relative to past glories, I'm not sure if missing out on 4th is enough to spur them into action.

Fourth place is where I draw the line. At the moment it's still definitely possible, however personally I don't think we will achieve it. If it comes to a stage where fourth place becomes realistically unobtainable, then we need to get rid. No excuse in the world will justify to me, how, regardless of the problems in the squad, the Premier League Champions can't make the top 4.

More conflicted than anything I guess right now.

newballsplease

He Wont be back for christ sake!

cson

NiallMH93 wrote: »

From twitter



Sad thing is, they're right. Getting dangerously close to a relegation scrap now. How did it ever come to this?

Bit of perspective needed there.

I'm all for giving managers time but tbh he has to go. Teams certainly don't fear United anymore and that'll get worse the longer he stays. The mistake was made in his appointment - you need a world class proven manager who can point to his trophy room (never mind cabinet) for a club the calibre of Manchester United.

MisterAnarchy

elius wrote: »

No one has mentioned the loss off Michael Carrick and show his importance to the team. Since he's been injured we have

Won 1
Drawn 2
Loss 2

It just underlines how poor the midfield is.
Carrick is a very limited player and slows the game down.
Imagine the difference a quality central midfielder would really make.