Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Al Capwned

It's a few hours later, and I still can't get my head around how bloody bad we were today.

Lord TSC

Xenophile wrote: »

Moyes deserves time.

As long as Man Utd. are not relegated and I know they won't be.

Moyes deserves another season.

Jaysus Christ, our expectations have taken a right old tumble off a cliff if we're to say "Once we're not relegated, he should stay".

What a ridiculous expectation of a team who walked the league last year....

titan18

GSPfan wrote: »

There's no one really available thats an obvious choice to take over from Moyes if they wanted rid now.
I personally would like Pocchetino but he is as unproven as Moyes so you're gambling either way.
Would anyone be interested in Laudrup?

Not really, would rather Pochettino over him. I think Hiddink is the best interim option since I'd assume any good option wouldn't leave their own clubs during the year.

Rayne Wooney

Mourinho should have been the replacement, perfect man to soak up all the pressure that came with succeeding Fergie and even if he left after a few seasons the manager replacing him wouldn't have had such a huge task ahead of him.

Does anyone think Mourinho wouldn't have brought top players the the club in the summer? Or signed Fellaini...

Anyway should have/would have/could haves are pointless now.


I'm praying Moyes buys some players in January.

Pro. F

Trilla wrote: »

I watched him attentively today.

Looked for it a lot from the backline. Played some nice long passes and even got stuck in once or twice... More than his previous performance which doesn't say much though.

Still not good enough... But Evra's head is elsewhere, Jones was awful, Nani was poor. Chico and RVP tried but were off the ball and unfit respectively. Evans wasn't great. Adnan was poor second half.

There was a lot worse on display, and thats alarming because Clev was average at best.

Don't agree that Jones or Nani were awful were that bad, but sure nobody is ever going to agree on every performance.

Average I totally agree with. Average Cleverley, average whole team, average performances all season, mid table league position.

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Do you see why this line of argument is flawed?

Which line of argument? I'm not being smart, just don't know what exactly you are talking about.

Danye

I'm on my phone so can't multi quote but my post about Simeone was completely wrong. I thought it was only the Cops Del Ray he had won. Forgot all about the Europa League and the Super Cup.

Apologies.

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

lol



I said that Cleverley was no worse than any other United player. You are saying that Cleverley was worse than every other United player. Those two things are obviously in contradiction to each other so we obviously are not in agreement. You insisting that we are in agreement is very stupid and funny. Well played.

The use of 'lol' confirms my suspicions.

Did you say the whole team was poor today? Yes or no?

Hitchens

Mr Moyes time at OT getting short now!

Al Capwned

I have been firmly in the "He has to be given time" camp.

The fact that I am starting to doubt this assertion worries me.

Aenaes

Hitchens wrote: »

Mr Moyes time at OT getting short now!

No.

Pro. F

Danye wrote: »

The use of 'lol' confirms my suspicions.

So what should I do? Do you want me to arrange to meet up with you in real life or something?

Danye wrote: »

Did you say the whole team was poor today? Yes or no?

Yes. And I also said that Cleverley was no worse than the rest of them, which you have disagreed with.

Rayne Wooney

Villa, West Ham, Hull and Norwich are our games before the new year..

All of those teams will be out for our blood now after losing 2 and drawing 2 of our last 4.

newballsplease

Zico wrote: »

He said Moyes doesn't name the team until just before kick off, which he found was making it difficult for him to prepare properly for games.

Hence it looks to me like the whole squad or a selected group are turning up on match day ready to play, with some ending up in the stands wearing their training gear.

Any link?

Red Crow

The one thing which could create serious problems is you have to ask what player would want to join the team in its current state and what calibre of player could we attract if we don't get CL. I think we'll spend in January becuase we simply have to.

kona

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Villa, West Ham, Hull and Norwich are our games before the new year..

All of those teams will be out for our blood now after losing 2 and drawing 2 of our last 4.

All well able to get a result too

Cantona's Collars

newballsplease wrote: »

Any link?

He said it yesterday & the interview was shown before the game today with him saying it.

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

So what should I do? Do you want me to arrange to meet up with you in real life or something?

What? Why on earth would you suggest that? What relevance has that go to do with what we're talking about?

Weird.

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes. And I also said that Cleverley was no worse than the rest of them, which you have disagreed with.

So yes you did say the whole team was poor. I agreed with what you were saying.

Cleverly was the poorest of the lot though IMO.

newballsplease

zerks wrote: »

He said it yesterday & the interview was shown before the game today with him saying it.

Ok...... I cant find it......

Any link?


Again...

Edit-found one.

Rayne Wooney

Neville just gave his reasoning of why Moyes should be given time


@GNev2: “@BobsyYdwI: @GNev2 Why though? Changing managers hasnt done Chelsea any harm”

Morals / principals/ philosophy and history!!!

Jimmy Iovine

Trilla wrote: »

I watched him attentively today.

Looked for it a lot from the backline. Played some nice long passes and even got stuck in once or twice... More than his previous performance which doesn't say much though.

He didn't. I lost count of the amount of times that Evans and Vidic had to turn back and pass to each other because there was no one coming short for it. I mean NO ONE. Zilch.

That's an indictment of Jones and RvP as well.

On the very infrequent occasions that he came short for it, Cleverley just played the ball back without even attempting to turn.

The one time I can remember him coming short was to get the ball from Vidic and all he did was play it to Evans. It was a totally pointless exercise. Vidic could have passed straight to Evans himself.

When he did try a penetrating pass, from a corner in the first half, he ****ed up. It was the wrong ball. Everyone could see that. Should have gone across the pitch instead of trying to force it inside. The ball was lost in a good position with some good headers of the ball in the opposition's box.

Anderson, while not amazing, at least tried to attack with the ball. Cleverley was so negative and devoid of any attacking instinct. He is turning into Ashley Young - the master of the backwards pass.

Pro. F

Danye wrote: »

What? Why on earth would you suggest that? What relevance has that go to do with what we're talking about?

Weird.

Good, I'm glad you don't want that. It's weird when people start throwing around the key board warrior tag and offering to meet up in irl.

Unless we meet up in real life you will never know how I act in real life. So there is nothing I can say that will convince you that I am not talking to you like this just because we are anonymous on the internet.

Danye wrote: »

So yes you did say the whole team was poor. I agreed with what you were saying.

Cleverly was the poorest of the lot though IMO.

And the last bit is what we disagree on, obviously. You really have done a nice little dance here so far. I wonder how long it will continue.

Nalz

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

He didn't.

Oh no he didn't
Oh yes he did.

He actually did a few times, I saw it with my own two eyes especially early on in the first half. Problem was when he got it he was pressurized and it went back to CBs or nowhere significant.

Didn't see Jones do it much at all

Master of the backwards pass? he played two brilliant balls in the first half 40-50yards out to the wide areas.
I'm nitpicking there, it wasn't great how he performed I'm not kidding myself there.

IvySlayer

Well done BBC :rolleyes:

Join the debate at #bbcfootball
Rikki in Notting Hill, via text: Lloris hasn't looked the same since his concussion. He's become less brave, and that has lost him his edge.

Anonymous via text: The biggest difference this year at old Trafford is clearly the Fergie factor. Referees and other officials are no longer intimidated by Man United's manager. Fergie was clearly worth at least an extra 12 points a season to Man U. When was the last time Man Utd were awarded a dubious penalty or there was a controversial decision given in their favour? Refs are no longer worried about making big calls. Same team, different manager, different outcome.

Headshot

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Neville just gave his reasoning of why Moyes should be given time


@GNev2: “@BobsyYdwI: @GNev2 Why though? Changing managers hasnt done Chelsea any harm”

Morals / principals/ philosophy and history!!!

All well in good if utd actually got the right man in the first place.

Dicky Pride

For a few months now I have seemingly been banging the Moyes Out drum on my own. And I hate to call it that because I was banging the "Please not Moyes" drum louder.

He was never out of his comfort zone at Everton. He did an admirable job on limited resources but he had great support there and some very loyal and talented players. That he never won a trophy, even a league cup, I think is firmly down to him as a manager. Everton always either started strong and ended poorly, or started poorly and ended strongly. This "quality" in a team is a lot to do with its manager.

So, no trophies won, qualifed for the champions league once and didn't make it past the qualifiers...how on earth does that qualify him to manage one of the biggest clubs in the world? The fact is, it doesn't.

I understand a lot of Man Utd fans trying to be "good man utd fans"...loyal and true to whomever is in charge, but lads...this poor lad is in over his head. Clearing out the backroom staff that won the league, and replacing them with the likes of Phil Neville...this was a very early warning sign. Rejecting Ozil and acting like a clown in the transfer market was the next warning sign. After that it was his tactics...his substitutions...his bizarre comments to the media...

A mess has been made, an embarrassing mess.

I'm not sure I believe that RVP has handed in a transfer request but i do know that he is a player that needs to be encouraged by his manager...he needs a close relationship with his manager. Moyes doesn't look like the type of man who does close relationships.

RVP was the king last year, today he was invisible. I put that soley down to the manager.

Jimmy Iovine

Trilla wrote: »

Oh no he didn't
Oh yes he did.

He actually did a few times, I saw it with my own two eyes especially early on in the first half. Problem was when he got it he was pressurized and it went back to CBs or nowhere significant.

Didn't see Jones do it much at all

He went short a few times but he failed to do anything of note. Even if he wasn't pressured, I don't think he has the skills to do anything with it.

Jones never did it. I love Jones. He's a great player but he doesn't have the ball playing ability to play in there. You wouldn't trust him to drop short and spread it out wide or up to a forward.

The midfield is pathetic at this stage. Why hasn't it been fixed? It doesn't take UEFA qualifications to recognise that, surely?

Hank Scorpio

Dicky Pride wrote: »

RVP was the king last year, today he was invisible. I put that soley down to the manager.

He was injured, you could hear Moyes asking him if he needed to come off after 60 mins, which he probably should have done.

Agree with alot of what you said though

Burt Macklin

Red Crow wrote: »

This is like Ferguson took a sh1t in a toilet and locked Moyes in after him and now everyone thinks it's his sh1te.

That is one of the best football analogies I've heard in a long time. If RTE ever have a pundit vacancy they should give you a call :pac:

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

Good, I'm glad you don't want that. It's weird when people start throwing around the key board warrior tag and offering to meet up in irl.
.

Who did I call a key board warrior? So you want me to met up with you??

Pro. F wrote: »

Unless we meet up in real life you will never know how I act in real life. So there is nothing I can say that will convince you that I am not talking to you like this just because we are anonymous on the internet.
.

Wait a minute. You mean to tell me that this isn't real life? What is it?

You seem to be really pushing for this meet up?

Pro. F wrote: »

And the last bit is what we disagree on, obviously. You really have done a nice little dance here so far. I wonder how long it will continue.

So your now saying I did agree with the first bit (the bit about everybody playing poor) it's just the Cleverly issue were disagreeing on?

Why did you originally insist that we weren't agreeing and now after all this say that we did agree that everybody played poor??

bad2dabone

From an outsider looking in I though that Moyes had not done enough to earn his shot at the Man U job - which is one of the biggest and most prestigious jobs in World Football. Top 5, easily. It looks to me that the job is too big for him. Its admirable that some fans want to give him a chance, but I think this appointment is doomed. I genuinely don't see Utd making top 4. Which is mad, i thought they'd be nailed on before the season started. If CL qualification is missed he should be replaced at the end of the season.

titan18

I'd love if we tried something different on Tuesday.

Eiither a 3-5-2/5-3-2 or a 4-2-3-1 with no wingers

Something like

---

Evans-Jones-Vidic

Raf

---

Evra

---

Fellaini

---

Anderson

---

Kagawa

---

---Rooney

---

RVP

or

Raf--Evans---Vidic

---

Evra

----Fellaini---Anderson

---Adnan-Rooney-Kagawa

---

RVP

---

Either that or just play a bunch of guys like Zaha, Fabio, Buttner, Varela, Cole, Keane, Janko, Wilson etc and see if anyone has something to push them into the first team regularly.

Absolutely nothing to lose in trying something out against Shaktar and the following week's League Cup game.

Danye

Red Crow wrote: »

This is like Ferguson took a sh1t in a toilet and locked Moyes in after him and now everyone thinks it's his sh1te.

I think it's hilarious people are trying to blame SAF for our current mess. All this nonsense of how he should of addressed the midfield situation so that it was all sorted for the incoming Moyes.

SAF won the league at a canter with this squad for Gods sake. The new manager was coming in to the League Champions. As far as he was concerned he was leaving the squad in a good position.

It was up to Moyes then to address any shortcomings we have. Not Fergie.

That's the problem with a lot of people in today's world. Always looking for somebody to blame.

Pro. F

Danye wrote: »

Who did I call a key board warrior? So you want me to met up with you??



Wait a minute. You mean to tell me that this isn't real life? What is it?

You seem to be really pushing for this meet up?



So your now saying I did agree with the first bit (the bit about everybody playing poor) it's just the Cleverly issue were disagreeing on?

Why did you originally insist that we weren't agreeing and now after all this say that we did agree that everybody played poor??

I'm done repeating myself every five minutes for your entertainment. You seem to want to pretend that you can't understand anything that's said to you and have it all explained back repeatedly ad nauseam. Since I've given you every explanation at least once all ready, if you're still confused about anything I said you can just go and read back over the previous posts.

jebus84

ABU's in paradise,the bitter *****

Al Capwned

Dicky Pride wrote: »

RVP was the king last year, today he was invisible. I put that soley down to the manager.

Not saying this as a defence of Moyes, but perhaps it would be more to do with the fact that he hasnt played since the Arsenal game?

Al Capwned

Danye wrote: »

Wait a minute. You mean to tell me that this isn't real life? What is it?

Danye

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm done repeating myself every five minutes for your entertainment. You seem to want to pretend that you can't understand anything that's said to you and have it all explained back repeatedly ad nauseam. Since I've given you every explanation at least once all ready, if you're still confused about anything I said you can just go and read back over the previous posts.

I'm done myself. It's funny how you call people out in this thread, picking apart their posts asking them to explain in detail what they mean yet when it's done to you, you run off with your tail between your legs.

Enjoy your evening.

Danye

Al Capwned wrote: »

Pro. F

Danye wrote: »

I'm done myself. It's funny how you call people out in this thread, picking apart their posts asking them to explain in detail what they mean yet when it's done to you, you run off with your tail between your legs.

Enjoy your evening.

I tried to explain to you for the last hour or two. I'm only giving up now.

uncleoswald

Danye wrote: »

That's the problem with a lot of people in today's world. Always looking for somebody to blame.

Eh are you not 'blaming' Moyes? Such nonsense.

Many Man Utd fans have been saying for a few years that our squad isn't all that, and a combination of a shambles at City and Chelsea and Ferguson's will kept Utd ahead of them.

Hank Scorpio

Next 4 league games are huge and should be games teams looking for CL qualification should win. Probably won't get an easier run of games in the league all season. Get 3 wins a draw and the table will be looking alot different and fans may show more optimism with the transfer window looming, continue this bad run and level of performance and Moyes and the team will be in a world of sh1t with everyone calling for his head, and rightfully so . No pressure then David

kryogen

Who is next to say "The fixture list is getting easier now, good run of games coming"?

bucketybuck

Danye wrote: »

I think it's hilarious people are trying to blame SAF for our current mess. All this nonsense of how he should of addressed the midfield situation so that it was all sorted for the incoming Moyes.

SAF won the league at a canter with this squad for Gods sake. The new manager was coming in to the League Champions. As far as he was concerned he was leaving the squad in a good position.

Thats just bull. Plenty of us criticised Fergie over the last three seasons for the lack of investment in midfield, its been a constant issue talked about since the defeats to Barcelona in the Champions league final.

Fergie royally screwed up by neglecting the midfield, he did nothing about it and now we are really feeling the effects.

Fergie won the league. But that squad had problems and the dog on the street knew it.

mufcboy1999

I stopped posting in here due to amount of delusional self proclaimed know it alls that were happy with our midfield for the last few years, you know the usuals the one's who'll hype up anderson every pre season or try convince us tom clev has potential as a man utd player:rolleyes:.

Everyone can see its where the bulk of the problem is, ye the full backs need looking at and arguably another proven cb but the cm is and has been for years shocking for an elite european side.

This playing 1 up top rubbish is just to pack the midfield to try and somewhat make up for the lack of talent/creativity there is embarrassing. 1 up top with this squad does not suit us, we dont have the players for it. Here's a taught play to our strengths , we have 3 world class strikers why not have them on the pitch ? it certainly makes more sense to me to play attacking football with rooney in behind rvp and chico with the option to alternate kawaga in the hole too compared to what we're doing now.


On fellani ,I think everyone knows he was plan b probably plan c lets be honest but even at this very early stage its clear he is not the solution to our cm, he might come good eventually further up the pitch but not cm.

I'm not blaming moyes one bit, ye he was left a team of champions but the last 2 title wins for me for me were a testament to fergies ability as a manager and lets be honest they were fergies players and this still is fergies squad.

Il give moyes time but I would say this anything below a top 4 finish is not acceptable for me. As bad as the current group is he still should be able to guide us to 4th. I just cant understand how we let everyone around us improve even more while we just had excuse after excuse for not signing players, oh he's not a manchester united player bla bla please shut the f*ck up and take a chance , he should be slapped around a room for turning down ozil.

kryogen

Cleverley fairly useless for the goal all the same wasn't he

Evra was pretty unlucky tbf

Oregano_State

Danye wrote: »

Who did I call a key board warrior? So you want me to met up with you??



Wait a minute. You mean to tell me that this isn't real life? What is it?

You seem to be really pushing for this meet up?



So your now saying I did agree with the first bit (the bit about everybody playing poor) it's just the Cleverly issue were disagreeing on?

Why did you originally insist that we weren't agreeing and now after all this say that we did agree that everybody played poor??

Jesus lad, he has already spelled it out. Go back and read what you've posted and his responses and stop clogging up the thread with this repetitive nonsense.

Danye

Oregano_State wrote: »

Jesus lad, he has already spelled it out. Go back and read what you've posted and his responses and stop clogging up the thread with this repetitive nonsense.

I've said I'm done and so has he so your the one now clogging up the thread.

Danye

uncleoswald wrote: »

Eh are you not 'blaming' Moyes? Such nonsense.

Many Man Utd fans have been saying for a few years that our squad isn't all that, and a combination of a shambles at City and Chelsea and Ferguson's will kept Utd ahead of them.

But Moyes is the manager now. It's his issue to deal with it. It wasn't up to Fergie to sort it all out before he left. Moyes has to be accountable for something.

My point is we can't be blaming Fergie for not sorting out our midfield problems. Why did Moyes not address the issue?

wonderfullife

Red Crow wrote: »

This is like Ferguson took a sh1t in a toilet and locked Moyes in after him and now everyone thinks it's his sh1te.

his "sh1t"? you mean the same group of players good enough to walk the league last year?

Also the "sh1t" Moyes left behind at Everton are doing rather well under Martinez.

Common Denominator?

Fergie + Man Utd players = Champions
Moyes + Man Utd players = Clueless
Martinez + Everton players = Very good
Moyes + Everton players = Looking clueless in retrospect


Moyes is the problem here. Tell yourself all you want its the players or the board or Woodward or the Glazers....blame who you want but the buck stops with Moyes. Simple as that.

Some people are too stubborn to see the wood from the trees. The problem is David Moyes. He's out of his depth and, in truth, after United i can see his career path going down a Steve McLaren road. Maybe a mid-table foreign club or a Championship club "project".

There is no shame in the board holding their hands up and saying "we got this wrong, all the best with the future David". The fans will respect that.

Danye

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats just bull. Plenty of us criticised Fergie over the last three seasons for the lack of investment in midfield, its been a constant issue talked about since the defeats to Barcelona in the Champions league final.

Fergie royally screwed up by neglecting the midfield, he did nothing about it and now we are really feeling the effects.

Fergie won the league. But that squad had problems and the dog on the street knew it.

I know people were criticising Fergie and rightly so. But he's no longer the manager. The idea of saying it's his fault that our midfield is poor is ridiculous. Why did Moyes not address the issue? Why do people feel that our current position is down to our ex manager and not out current one?