Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

bucketybuck

scudzilla wrote: »

And i'd still take Scholes over Ince any day of the week and twice on Sunday

Blatter wrote: »

Worrying that the assistant manager of Ireland can judge Ince to be a better player than Scholes. I mean it's not even ****ing close.

I would agree Scholes was the better player, but comments like these don't give Ince enough credit in my opinion. The guy was a hugely influential player, the type of complete midfielder that seems to be becoming extinct these days, its no surprise that a player like Keane would appreciate him as I suspect he learned a lot from playing beside him.

I'd kill to have a Paul Ince in our midfield today.

bucketybuck

KH25 wrote: »

I have no idea how what you quoted there came up as something I said.

Not sure myself, obviously a coding error on my part. I have edited the post now.

homerjay2005

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'd kill to have a Paul Ince in our midfield today.

strange to read this. id kill to have the likes of Keane, Scholes, even Butt and Robson, but Ince?

doesnt deserve to be in the same league as those 4 above. burned his bridges also, seemed to love himself too much to be at the club.

CSF

Your Airbag wrote: »

I agree that Moyes was negative in that match and our preformances under him lack luster but one more than one occasion we have dropped points based on games where it was more than one incident involving our players that cost us.

Your right about those incidents only telling a small story of the overall game, absolutley right but in both games other incidents worked against us. Welbeck blew a chance against Cardiff, Smalling should have run the Cardiff player into the corner rather than foul him that led to the free kick. Against Everton Rooney hit the post, scuffed another couple of chances and Giggs had a header creep wide. There was enough done to win both.

I'm not happy with how we play under Moyes either but some of the players have let us, him and themselves down. They are not blameless.

Moyes insisting on us being so wide when we are so poor there is a big issue but we have no creativity in the centre so what option does he have. Januzaj and Nani were playing against Everton so we had different wide options and we were very unlucky not to score. The Everton game was lost by the forwards and Val imo.

I don't suggest for a second that any of the players are blameless. Far from it. But Moyes is the most to blame, he picks the players and gives them their instructions, I accept completely he can't physically perform the acts for players, but that goes for all managers.

Pen.Island

Actual quote from Moyes on leaving RVP on.

Moyes
Is it fair to say that [RVP] was not at it? he's missed some games.
No, and I was due to take him off after 60-70 mins but I think if i'd taken him off everybody would have said "what are you doing?", but in truth Robin needed to come off after 70 minutes max but I had to keep him on, we were chasing the game, we had to try and get a goal back.

Headshot

Ugh he is such a rookie

K-9

SantryRed wrote: »

Your post right there is what is wrong with United this season, and what seems to be their mentality under Moyes to date.

Playing away to Cardiff, it shouldn't come down to one mistake defining winning or losing the game.
Playing at home to Newcastle, it shouldn't come down to one miss meaning you don't go 1-0 up and go on to lose 1-0.
Playing at home to WBA, again it shouldn't be one mistake, United should be coasting against them like teams have, such as Liverpool when they put them to the sword.


The mentality in Moyes is all wrong for being a top 4 manager and he will not last as United's manager if he doesn't change it. If United are 1-0 up against anyone with 20 mins to go, he doesn't look to kill the game off with another goal, he looks to solidify and hold on, this tactic has already bitten United on the arse several times this season, and will continue to do so until he fixes it. At United, you do not give the initiative to teams poorer than you, and that is what he does when he tries to sit on 1 goal leads.

Nothing seems to be going for him and that builds up, then you've the results and what was a massively pressurised job could become an unsurmountable task if there's another defeat over Xmas. Top 4 was the absolute minimum expected of him and the problem is, as a Liverpool fan I'm very familiar with it the last few seasons, you're hoping for the teams above you to fall away, and that never seems to work out!

He's in the territory now that he can't afford any more losses at home, which puts pressure on the team and the fans on edge.

I was reading a piece the other days that asked after 10/11 years at Everton, can anybody answer what is philosophy is? The piece was well balanced, acknowledged what a good job he did up against City, Chelsea, United, Liverpool and others like Newcastle and Villa who tried to do what he did, but again where's the imprint of a Moyes team?

I'd have been somebody who argued he was a good apointment but maybe a safe pair of hands isn't the answer for a club of the huge stature of United, it certainly wasn't for Hodgson and Liverpool. Decent manager, luck just wasn't on his side with managing a team that nearly went into administration, far too conservative football for a team, that while not top 4 quality, had players that suited a pass and move style football, not 4-4-2 archaic Hodgson tactics that he never changed.

Pen.Island

Headshot wrote: »

Ugh he is such a rookie

I think it proves it's not as bad as it sounded.

Nalz

homerjay2005 wrote: »

wonderkid Bruno Gomes...... has now chosen another club in stead of us

Have you a source HJ?

Headshot

Pen.Island wrote: »

I think it proves it's not as bad as it sounded.

It proves he has no stones and could of damaged one of our best players. RVP should of been off fullstop. You could see he had a terrible time.

Pen.Island

Headshot wrote: »

It proves he has no stones and could of damaged one of our best players. RVP should of been off fullstop. You could see he had a terrible time.

Bullbollix

There was a clear and audible shot of him asking RVP if he could play on, shouting something along the lines of 'Robin, can you make it?

The_Kew_Tour

Anyone going to Villa game?

Headshot

Pen.Island wrote: »

Bullbollix

There was a clear and audible shot of him asking RVP if he could play on, shouting something along the lines of 'Robin, can you make it?

No player is going to say no. Majority just want to play, adrenaline was kicking in. It should be the managers job to say enough is enough, we need a fit RVP to get us a europa league spot

Pro. F

Pen.Island wrote: »

I think it proves it's not as bad as it sounded.

You bolded the less controversial part of the quote.

Moyes
Is it fair to say that [RVP] was not at it? he's missed some games.
No, and I was due to take him off after 60-70 mins but I think if i'd taken him off everybody would have said "what are you doing?", but in truth Robin needed to come off after 70 minutes max but I had to keep him on, we were chasing the game, we had to try and get a goal back.

That's the bit that makes him look weak.

2moreMinutes

Take RVP off - wtf u at Moyes, we need a goal.

Leave RVP on - wtf u at Moyes, he could injure himself.

Hammer a German side in CL - lol, sure weren't that crowd good for nothing

Lose points due to players switching off completely - wtf u at Moyes, it's ur fault 100%

2moreMinutes

Pro. F wrote: »

You bolded the less controversial part of the quote.



That's the bit that makes him look weak.

When I read that last Saturday, I thought what the hell. When I seen him say it on MOTD, it made sense in context and was a million times less dumb sounding.

Rayne Wooney

If he had taken RVP off people would still be moaning




I hope Anderson, Giggs, Butters, Fabio, Zaha, Hernandez, Young, Fellaini are all starting during the week

Need everyone 100% for the next few league games

Backstreet Moyes

Timmyctc wrote: »

Just on this. I know its your opinion. But it is wrong. So So wrong.

It is all about opinions. My opinion is Jones, Cleverley, Anderson and Giggs wouldn't be starting in cm for Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Spurs, Newcastle, Southampton and Everton. So i would class them as lower league standard players going by that.

Anderson should be sold at this stage.
Giggs should be retiring soon.
Jones should be playing cb.
Cleverley even though i don't rate is English and can be kept around in the squad.

But in January bringing in something like two of Cabaye, Koke and Scneiderlin would make a big difference until the summer. Then try bring in world class signings. Would like Baines also or Controa.

Then in the summer try get the likes of Di Maria and Draxler the squad needs serious freshening up.

Getting rid of the likes of Young, Valencia, Anderson, Buttner with getting in replacements is needed. Evra will probably go also with Giggs and Ferdinand retiring. A massive clearout is needed it's unlikely all of those will go but some players need to be shown the door. Personally i just don't know how Valencia is still playing. People use his defensive work as his strength he seems to have lost interest in that also.

homerjay2005

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Anyone going to Villa game?

was originally fixed for the same day as our 12 pubs, so decided to give this one a miss, but normally would be going to it.

last time we played villa on this weekend, we lost 1-0

this is the 5th time we have played villa around mid december - once we played them on the 23rd and i was travelling down home on christmas eve. cold bastar* of a spot at the best of times, but was exceptionally freezing then.

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

You bolded the less controversial part of the quote.



That's the bit that makes him look weak.

I'm still going to assume it was meant as a sort of joke.

Directly follwing it he says 'but in truth', which indicate the preceeding wasn't fully truthful.

People would have questioned him, but I don't think that was the motivation for keeping him on - I think the fact we were losing and needed him was the reason.

Personally I was screaming for him to take Chico off for Zaha, and move Januzaj centrally - would have balanced the team a lot better and balance was a massive thing we were missing on saturday.

wonderfullife

Blatter wrote: »

Worrying that the assistant manager of Ireland can judge Ince to be a better player than Scholes. I mean it's not even ****ing close.

I'm not quite sure the context of the side (i.e. was he going for 2 "steely midfielders")....but on the face of it it's supposed to be his Best XI.

Big snub to Giggsy though to be fair, Ronaldo is a better player and the only other spot for Giggs would have been Cantonas slot (and Cantona probably better too).

Ince was superb too by the way. In his pomp.

As always though, with Roy, it's probably more down to who he hasn't fallen out with much. More personality than skill.

Pro. F

2moreMinutes wrote: »

Lose points due to players switching off completely - wtf u at Moyes, it's ur fault 100%

This would stand up if there had just been a few poor results this season. That is not what has happened. There have been a lot of poor results and a lot of poor performances.

bmcc10

Nuts102 wrote: »

It is all about opinions. My opinion is Jones, Cleverley, Anderson and Giggs wouldn't be starting in cm for Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Spurs, Newcastle, Southampton and Everton. So i would class them as lower league standard players going by that.

Anderson should be sold at this stage.
Giggs should be retiring soon.
Jones should be playing cb.
Cleverley even though i don't rate is English and can be kept around in the squad.

But in January bringing in something like two of Cabaye, Koke and Scneiderlin would make a big difference until the summer. Then try bring in world class signings. Would like Baines also or Controa.

Then in the summer try get the likes of Di Maria and Draxler the squad needs serious freshening up.

Getting rid of the likes of Young, Valencia, Anderson, Buttner with getting in replacements is needed. Evra will probably go also with Giggs and Ferdinand retiring. A massive clearout is needed it's unlikely all of those will go but some players need to be shown the door. Personally i just don't know how Valencia is still playing. People use his defensive work as his strength he seems to have lost interest in that also.

Don't think most players noted would make much of a difference and we would find ourselves back here giving out about them.

homerjay2005

interesting angle here -

Miguel Delaney ‏@MiguelDelaney 6m
Since 05-06, Moyes' avge points-per-game in first 19 matches of season: 1.36 ... Second 19 matches: 1.72. United need a bigger jump though.

Moyes averages 26 points in first half of season and 33 in second half, giving him an average of 59.

59 points would have got you 7th, 7th, 6th, 9th, 7th and 7th in the past 6 years.

if he keeps it up and we start our improvement this weekend, going off his ratio so far over the past 8 years we should end up on 65 points - he is at 1.46 this season and using the same improvement (difficult i know as there are 4 games left until half season), his average between here and the end of the season should be 1.84 points per game.

65 points isnt good enough - would have got you 6th, 5th,5th, 6th, 5th, 5th in the past 6 seasons. i know its all hearsay, but can anybody honestly see us getting more than 70 points, considering we are only at 22 at the moment and playing s*it?

the task ahead of Moyes to hit 4th place, is absolutely huge. you;d think after 4 or 5 years of doing s*it at the start, he would change something, but its obvious that he has not learned, likewise he has not taken on board his normal injury hits at the beginning of every season.

Burt Macklin

All that mention of Keane's best XI reminds me of when our midfield was:

Beckham-Keane-Scholes-Giggs

In their pomp they were untouchable. Perfect balance of everything. Buying Veron kinda killed it.

Cantona's Collars

homerjay2005 wrote: »

interesting angle here -



Moyes averages 26 points in first half of season and 33 in second half, giving him an average of 59.

59 points would have got you 7th, 7th, 6th, 9th, 7th and 7th in the past 6 years.

if he keeps it up and we start our improvement this weekend, going off his ratio so far over the past 8 years we should end up on 65 points - he is at 1.46 this season and using the same improvement (difficult i know as there are 4 games left until half season), his average between here and the end of the season should be 1.84 points per game.

65 points isnt good enough - would have got you 6th, 5th,5th, 6th, 5th, 5th in the past 6 seasons. i know its all hearsay, but can anybody honestly see us getting more than 70 points, considering we are only at 22 at the moment and playing s*it?

the task ahead of Moyes to hit 4th place, is absolutely huge. you;d think after 4 or 5 years of doing s*it at the start, he would change something, but its obvious that he has not learned, likewise he has not taken on board his normal injury hits at the beginning of every season.

Those are Everton stats,we are not Everton & should be aiming higher.He needs to get these players performing asap.We go a goal down & the players seem resigned to defeat,sickening to watch.

The_Kew_Tour

homerjay2005 wrote: »

was originally fixed for the same day as our 12 pubs, so decided to give this one a miss, but normally would be going to it.

last time we played villa on this weekend, we lost 1-0

this is the 5th time we have played villa around mid december - once we played them on the 23rd and i was travelling down home on christmas eve. cold bastar* of a spot at the best of times, but was exceptionally freezing then.

Love going to Villa. I might be going so that is why I asked around. Will know by Wednesday. Had no plans to go, but have bit of extra cash so might be worth it.

Hope to get game at home in March/April too. Will let you know which one.

homerjay2005

zerks wrote: »

Those are Everton stats,we are not Everton & should be aiming higher.

problem is he seems to have take this into his management of United. poor start, should get better, but his ability may not allow him to take us to 4th place.

augurs well that thinks will improve, but it may still not be enough unfortunately. its amazing, had anybody said around mid May that we would be 9th heading into christmas, they'd have been laughed off the board as back then, very few people were saying the squad was not good enough for top 4 - the majority of the concerns were based on our ability to win the league and improve in Europe.

we are a million miles off those targets right now.

bucketybuck

homerjay2005 wrote: »

strange to read this. id kill to have the likes of Keane, Scholes, even Butt and Robson, but Ince?

doesnt deserve to be in the same league as those 4 above. burned his bridges also, seemed to love himself too much to be at the club.

Oh come off it, Ince was twice the player Nicky Butt was.

Its no great shame to not be on the level of Keane or Bryan Robson, but you have to give credit where it is due and Paul Ince was a far more accomplished player than Butt ever was. As I said he was a massive influence on the field for United and then went to Inter Milan at a time when Serie A was the top league in the world and acquitted himself very well.

I know in your mind a player retroactively loses a million brownie points if they ever sign for a rival after leaving United, but there is nothing strange about remembering how good Paul Ince was.

Eta: PFA team of the year 1993, '94 and '95. Not bad!

beno619

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Personally I was screaming for him to take Chico off for Zaha, and move Januzaj centrally - would have balanced the team a lot better and balance was a massive thing we were missing on saturday.

We have been unbalanced all season, he finally got it right against Leverkusen and has some how messed it up since.

There have been so many times this season he could have left out the unfit RVP and played Shinji down the middle.

ericzeking

bucketybuck wrote: »

Oh come off it, Ince was twice the player Nicky Butt was.

Its no great shame to not be on the level of Keane or Bryan Robson, but you have to give credit where it is due and Paul Ince was a far more accomplished player than Butt ever was. As I said he was a massive influence on the field for United and then went to Inter Milan at a time when Serie A was the top league in the world and acquitted himself very well.

I know in your mind a player retroactively loses a million brownie points if they ever sign for a rival after leaving United, but there is nothing strange about remembering how good Paul Ince was.

Eta: PFA team of the year 1993, '94 and '95. Not bad!

Re Ince instead of scholes, in Eric, Ronaldo and RVN, you have 3players who will do zero work defensively so you need an engine in there to compensate.
Ince was a top player in his day.

homerjay2005

bucketybuck wrote: »

I know in your mind a player retroactively loses a million brownie points if they ever sign for a rival after leaving United, but there is nothing strange about remembering how good Paul Ince was.

yes true, im guilty there on that one. still think he ranks below the others though, but in all fairness, its such a hige level that its not saying anything bad.

just something about Ince i didnt like at times, though his celebrations with Giggs were class. scored about 20 goals in his last 3 seasons, which just sums up why we play so s*it now - we have no creativity and goal threat from CM.

Your Airbag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNjGZ1p5370

user2011

Your Airbag

The most interesting points to take from that video are

1. The shockingly poor forward passing stats. They talked about whether UTD would change Moyes or would Moyes change UTD and I believe its the former which is a problem addressed in point two.

2. How compact Everton used to be under Moyes. Carragher talks about how Evertons wide men like Pinaar, Osman and Arteta used to cut inside and that the flying wingers was not what Moyes was about.

If Moyes has changed because UTD are a wide team this is a major mistake because he is not used to it and we are muck wide atm. Play Januzaj, Kagawa and Nani wide as they can cut in and make it more compact. If he is trying to stay true to UTD tradition of width then its hurting us. Some of us have been looking for a change of this style.

I know Moyes talked about how important playing through the centre is and how he admired clubs like Bayern. If he is trying to keep our style to please fans, Fergie or whoever he needs to man up and make his own decisions. Get rid of the dead weight and play it your way David.

Blatter

wonderfullife wrote: »

I'm not quite sure the context of the side (i.e. was he going for 2 "steely midfielders")....but on the face of it it's supposed to be his Best XI.

Big snub to Giggsy though to be fair, Ronaldo is a better player and the only other spot for Giggs would have been Cantonas slot (and Cantona probably better too).

Ince was superb too by the way. In his pomp.

As always though, with Roy, it's probably more down to who he hasn't fallen out with much. More personality than skill.

I'd have Giggs over Beckham tbh and then Ronaldo on the right. I don't have as much of a problem with that though as him choosing Ince over Scholes.

He could have left Scholes out over personal reasons but if he genuinely thought Ince was a better player, it'd show a fundamental problem with his judgement of a football player. (not for one second implying Ince wasn't a fantastic player, I just think it's clear that Scholes was a level above)

J. Marston

Hitchens wrote: »

David Moyes says defeat to Newcastle United at Old Trafford 'raised my spirits'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10506100/Manchester-United-manager-David-Moyes-says-defeat-to-Newcastle-United-at-Old-Trafford-raised-my-spirits.htmlgo

go away David, .......just .......go

What a clown.

Timmyctc

J. Marston wrote: »

What a clown.

Ah heor. Thats not that bad a thing to say at all. Clickbait is all that article is.

"...that raised my spirits," Moyes said. "It just made me more determined to make sure we improve and get better.

Deise_2012

That's Keane only trying to be controversial to get people talking, he picked Paul Parker ahead of Gary Neville and he only played one season with Parker, 93/94, Parker was injured for 94/95 season and then he couldn't get start ahead of Neville when he returned. Typical Keane really

Danye

homerjay2005 wrote: »

interesting angle here -



Moyes averages 26 points in first half of season and 33 in second half, giving him an average of 59.

59 points would have got you 7th, 7th, 6th, 9th, 7th and 7th in the past 6 years.

if he keeps it up and we start our improvement this weekend, going off his ratio so far over the past 8 years we should end up on 65 points - he is at 1.46 this season and using the same improvement (difficult i know as there are 4 games left until half season), his average between here and the end of the season should be 1.84 points per game.

65 points isnt good enough - would have got you 6th, 5th,5th, 6th, 5th, 5th in the past 6 seasons. i know its all hearsay, but can anybody honestly see us getting more than 70 points, considering we are only at 22 at the moment and playing s*it?

the task ahead of Moyes to hit 4th place, is absolutely huge. you;d think after 4 or 5 years of doing s*it at the start, he would change something, but its obvious that he has not learned, likewise he has not taken on board his normal injury hits at the beginning of every season.

Agree completely. I cant understand people saying "But Moyes and his team always start the league campaign off slowly. He'll pick things up in the second half of the season"

The fact that he hasn't done anything in his years of management to address the problem of starting off slowly is worrying.

K-9 wrote: »

I was reading a piece the other days that asked after 10/11 years at Everton, can anybody answer what is philosophy is? The piece was well balanced, acknowledged what a good job he did up against City, Chelsea, United, Liverpool and others like Newcastle and Villa who tried to do what he did, but again where's the imprint of a Moyes team?

I asked this question a few weeks ago. What is David Moyes footballing philosophy? All the top managers have a philosophy about how the game should be played and how to go about winning games but with Moyes he doesn't seem to have one.

About the whole who's better thing between Schloes and Ince, it's Schloes for me. Ince was a fantastic player no doubt but Paul Schloes wins.

Aren't we the same group of fans who have been calling for Paul Scholes to be acknowledged as the best British central midfield player of his generation and now because our old disgruntled captain doesn't include him in his all time XI we're saying Ince was better. Is Paul Ince now better than Scholes was? :rolleyes:

Deise_2012

Deise_2012 wrote: »

That's Keane only trying to be controversial to get people talking, he picked Paul Parker ahead of Gary Neville and he only played one season with Parker, 93/94, Parker was injured for 94/95 season and then he couldn't get start ahead of Neville when he returned. Typical Keane really

It's bothering me that Keane said that. Really bothering me.. possibly more than it should. Ince was good, but Scholes was simply sensational and Keane and Scholes formed arguably one of the best midfields this club has ever had. Knowing Keane through the media and how he reacts to certain things, I can't help but feel there's a bitterness there or something. I would hope (possibly in vain) that it's just a method of drumming up interest in the show but that would still sadden me. He's showing poor respect to Scholes and that just doesn't fly with me.

jambofc

why are people willing to give moyes time?

his tactics are poor,his subs even poorer at times,his record as a manager is poor(42% wins).he has shown he is way out of his depth,he cant motivate a squad who are champions.so some of the blame has to go onto the players ok fair enough,but with his record as a manager what is it that anyone see's that makes them think he can turn things around?

imo he cant and the longer he stays the worse things will get

some are saying Kag's needs to step up,my feeling is on the odd occasion he starts in the hole he isnt getting any service,i would love to see jones dm and carrick told to be more adventurous and push forward more with kag,nani,jan and roo ahead of him,so rvp is dropped :eek:

i think for man utd this might be a better option?!?!?

jambofc

jambofc wrote: »

why are people willing to give moyes time?

his tactics are poor,his subs even poorer at times,his record as a manager is poor(42% wins).he has shown he is way out of his depth,he cant motivate a squad who are champions.so some of the blame has to go onto the players ok fair enough,but with his record as a manager what is it that anyone see's that makes them think he can turn things around?

imo he cant and the longer he stays the worse things will get

some are saying Kag's needs to step up,my feeling is on the odd occasion he starts in the hole he isnt getting any service,i would love to see jones dm and carrick told to be more adventurous and push forward more with kag,nani,jan and roo ahead of him,so rvp is dropped :eek:

i think for man utd this might be a better option?!?!?

Less coffee for you!!

tallaghtmick

jambofc wrote: »

why are people willing to give moyes time?

his tactics are poor,his subs even poorer at times,his record as a manager is poor(42% wins).he has shown he is way out of his depth,he cant motivate a squad who are champions.so some of the blame has to go onto the players ok fair enough,but with his record as a manager what is it that anyone see's that makes them think he can turn things around?

imo he cant and the longer he stays the worse things will get

some are saying Kag's needs to step up,my feeling is on the odd occasion he starts in the hole he isnt getting any service,i would love to see jones dm and carrick told to be more adventurous and push forward more with kag,nani,jan and roo ahead of him,so rvp is dropped :eek:

i think for man utd this might be a better option?!?!?

Because we need to see what he does in January and the latter half of the season, I never wanted him but he needs a year at the very least, no champs league football he better get the boot but if he gets us in ill give him one more year, I pray we win the F.A cup for morale etc.

homerjay2005

Your Airbag wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNjGZ1p5370

every stat, every analysis, every discussion just points to everything being an absolute disaster

interesting they bring up the crossing. read an opinion piece yesterday about that......crossing was a huge part of our warm up routine for the past 5 years.
it was done at a high intensity and was done week in, week out without fail. it helped i am sure to be to top goal scorers from crosses almost every season.

anybody who goes to games and get in early, would see how we worked on this in training alot and made it a feature. its now gone this season and i think its an excellent observation as it appears to be taken into games also.

the more analysis thats done, the worse and worse this looks for Moyes sadly.

Robson99

Sacramento wrote: »

It's bothering me that Keane said that. Really bothering me.. possibly more than it should. Ince was good, but Scholes was simply sensational and Keane and Scholes formed arguably one of the best midfields this club has ever had. Knowing Keane through the media and how he reacts to certain things, I can't help but feel there's a bitterness there or something. I would hope (possibly in vain) that it's just a method of drumming up interest in the show but that would still sadden me. He's showing poor respect to Scholes and that just doesn't fly with me.

Can see how he would respect Ince as a partner in midfield but cant see how he would leave out Scholes. In relation to the bitterness as far as I have read previously Keane and Ince didnt really get onand he didnt like Ince being called The Guv. Keane and Scholes are supposed to be in contact with each other a bit since he left. So thats a kinda strange one

Cant see why he would have Parker ahead of Neville.

IamtheWalrus

homerjay2005 wrote: »

though his celebrations with Giggs were class.

Amazing how 2 people can see the same thing completely differently.

IamtheWalrus

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Anyone going to Villa game?

Me.

Jimmy Iovine

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Me.

As am I.

Agueroooo

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the more analysis thats done, the worse and worse this looks for Moyes sadly.

look its only the most naive of rival fans that thinks Utd wont turn this around, but I can see some of the old UTD traits that Fergie instilled being lost along the way until the fix is applied (eg)
1)The playing Man Utd fear factor.
2)The playing at OT fear factor.
3)The play/score til the death

Examples 1&2 will be restored if/when Utd start to dominate again, but it was inevitable that some of Fergies aspects would leave with him, and the demanding every single drop of energy til the final whistle looks to have well and truly gone missing from this current Utd team.
The question is: was it Moyes's tactics that have dampened it, or no matter who took the job would have had to deal with this big absences of urgency.