Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Nolars

bucketybuck wrote: »

In other news, its reported that in their F1 cars next season Ferrari are going to use a Massey 35 engine as it is very reliable and works hard.

Stop comparing machines vs humans.

Mitch Connor

Nolars wrote: »

Stop comparing machines vs humans.

well stop doing somethign just as stupid as saying Nani is lazy.

Winston Payne

Nani should just go as deep as our box even when it's not the best position to take and foul a few times. Then everybody will think he works hard.

Jesus Christ. I watched the Portugal - Sweden game last night and there's no way you could call Nani's display lazy without having an agenda. Pereira was going forward a lot and Nani covered him very well, like he normally does when he plays. Nani being lazy is a zombie myth, it keeps coming back over and over and over again. For a winger, the defensive protection Nani provides is good. Not adequate. Not par. Good.

Nolars

Mitch Connor wrote: »

well stop doing somethign just as stupid as saying Nani is lazy.

Relax son didnt realize you loved him that much.

bullvine

Nani is far from Lazy and its unfair to say that about him but I also don't agree with saying he needs a run of games, maybe hes just gone pants, maybe hes lost the hunger.

Winston Payne

bullvine wrote: »

Nani is far from Lazy and its unfair to say that about him but I also don't agree with saying he needs a run of games, maybe hes just gone pants, maybe hes lost the hunger.

We might as well shoot him so.

PhlegmyMoses

bullvine wrote: »

Nani is far from Lazy and its unfair to say that about him but I also don't agree with saying he needs a run of games, maybe hes just gone pants, maybe hes lost the hunger.

We've no real idea because he hasn't played much in the last year. Prior to that he was pretty good.

Pro. F

bullvine wrote: »

Nani is far from Lazy and its unfair to say that about him but I also don't agree with saying he needs a run of games, maybe hes just gone pants, maybe hes lost the hunger.

It's extremely unlikely that he has just become a bad player. There's plenty of evidence from his career to date that he needs a run of games to get his form going.

RasTa

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Have only got to 5 minutes in but everybody go to 4:45 in that video and tell me RVP doesn't need that kind of service

You'll have to drop Rooney so. I refuse to believe that Kagawa is so rubbish because he is playing on the left. You could put Rooney at RB, CM, RW etc and he would still do a job.

shadowcomplex

I personally believe that Kagawa and Rooney are on the same wavelength and a formation of Rooney as the out and out striker and Kagawa just behind would be awesome, it won't happen though unless rvp gets injured

RasTa

Also Nani played as well against Sweden the other night as he did against Stoke

Rayne Wooney

RasTa wrote: »

You'll have to drop Rooney so. I refuse to believe that Kagawa is so rubbish because he is playing on the left. You could put Rooney at RB, CM, RW etc and he would still do a job.

Did you intentionally leave out LW because it nullifies your point?

Your Airbag

Tha Nani talk raises its head again. We have had this with a few players, some think they will come good and some think they should move on.

If a player is at a club a number of years and there is still doubts well that says it all for me. Some players build up a reputation and some are good from the start, Januzaj for example. With the players in question I think we are talking years now.

Saying that Nani's good days are worth keeping him around for compared to Clev and Ando.

RasTa

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Did you intentionally leave out LW because it nullifies your point?

lol no, what an odd comment

Your Airbag

Evil Kagawa

Kagawa vs Holland:
79 pass 79 complete (100%)
11 goal chance create
1 assist
This what Kagawa do in hole Moyes.

LET KAGAWA IN YOUR HOLE!

https://twitter.com/evilkagawa/status/401728432356487169

Rayne Wooney

RasTa wrote: »

lol no, what an odd comment

Do you remember Rooney's stint in LW and the aftermath? I hope so.

Rayne Wooney

Your Airbag wrote: »

Evil Kagawa



https://twitter.com/evilkagawa/status/401728432356487169

Was posted earlier and isn't quite accurate, he assisted the assister for the goal and his passing % was in the high 90s I reckon, but not 100.

Still he had a very good game and showed what could be if he gets some time behind the striker in out setup.

RasTa

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Do you remember Rooney's stint in LW and the aftermath? I hope so.

Nope, nothing standing out. I remember him starting there against Madrid in the first leg.

Vic Vinegar

Anyone have any news on the sponsorship with Nike? Heard there might be issues and Adidas might be waiting to step in... I wouldn't mind a change, Nike kits aren't very nice imo.

Pro. F

RasTa wrote: »

Nope, nothing standing out. I remember him starting there against Madrid in the first leg.

Rooney has been average at best and more often terrible whenever he has played on the wing. You really don't remember that?

Rayne Wooney

Rooney left wing = shadow of himself

Wasn't Scholes played left wing for England with similar results?

There are plenty of examples.

Kagawa played in his correct position will without a doubt be better than he is now, there's no even argument against that IMO.

Whether Kagawa in the hole behind RVP or Rooney, would be better than Rooney behind RVP is the big question. IMO it would probably make us play a lot better than we are now, but you're rotating two of the best strikers in football for it to happen which won't keep them happy. It's a tough one but if we keep playing the way we are now it may have to happen at some stage, no player is bigger than the club and if it benefits the team it should be a no brainer.

Timmyctc

zerks wrote: »

Jesus yer wan who made the video would fair get a batch

Liam O

Your Airbag wrote: »

Tha Nani talk raises its head again. We have had this with a few players, some think they will come good and some think they should move on.

If a player is at a club a number of years and there is still doubts well that says it all for me. Some players build up a reputation and some are good from the start, Januzaj for example. With the players in question I think we are talking years now.

Saying that Nani's good days are worth keeping him around for compared to Clev and Ando.

Nani had a good reputation when he was Januzaj's age I'm sure. After Rooney and RVP, him and Kagawa are the only other attacking players who have shown that they can produce consistently against good opposition and they should be the default attacking 4 with Januzaj making sub appearances and the odd start and the others being cover. The only way the team are going to find attacking fluidity is if they are played together. Look at Aguero, Silva, Nasri and Yaya at City. They pretty much start when fit and look to understand each other when played, the other players who come in don't have the same understanding and United need to start building a consistent enough group who, while they will know that there is competition for their place, will be able to play enough to gain an understanding. Not Nani once every 3 weeks, pretty much rotating with Young and Valencia who both have different styles and somewhat prevent the team from finding the style that suits them.

Your Airbag

Timmyctc wrote: »

Jesus yer wan who made the video would fair get a batch

I'd love the chance to disappoint her.

Cantona's Collars

Moyes has brought in Everton’s former chief scout Robbie Cooke and Chelsea’s European scout Mick Doherty, who worked with Moyes at Everton.

Vic Vinegar

Some strike by Ravel!

onemorechance

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Some strike by Ravel!

I would expect that any man or woman getting paid over 10k a week (sterling, euros or US dollars :pac: ) to play soccer should be able to do this in training.

Oregano_State

onemorechance wrote: »

I would expect that any man or woman getting paid over 10k a week (sterling, euros or US dollars :pac: ) to play soccer should be able to do this in training.

Ah now, don't ruin it.

kryogen

To be fair I have done similar myself in training

magnumbud

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Some strike by Ravel!

Would be more impressed if he had had others around him putting him under pressure

homerjay2005

Welbeck supposedly out for 6 weeks now also. hopefully its not the start of another injury crisis that blighted 3 of the past 5 seasons.

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Welbeck supposedly out for 6 weeks now also. hopefully its not the start of another injury crisis that blighted 3 of the past 5 seasons.

Carrick, Jones, Welbeck injured. Fellaini needing an op that will put him out for 10 weeks. It would appear it is indeed an injury crisis.

homerjay2005

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Carrick, Jones, Welbeck injured. Fellaini needing an op that will put him out for 10 weeks. It would appear it is indeed an injury crisis.

given the injuries to Jones and Carrick and our already lack of heads in midfield, i doubt that Fellani operation will take place now.

wonder will we see Anderson and Fletcher back in the next week or 2?

it will be Cleverly, Giggs and Fellani in there until Christmas, possibly Rooney also which given our hectic schedule (11 games in 6 weeks) is a real concern.

if we get to the Spurs game with passage to the semi in league cup, knock out of europe and within a point or two of the top 4, i think we will be doing very well. tough ask though, the extra 3 games in there doesnt help up at all.

magnumbud

homerjay2005 wrote: »

given the injuries to Jones and Carrick and our already lack of heads in midfield, i doubt that Fellani operation will take place now.

wonder will we see Anderson and Fletcher back in the next week or 2?

it will be Cleverly, Giggs and Fellani in there until Christmas, possibly Rooney also which given our hectic schedule (11 games in 6 weeks) is a real concern.

if we get to the Spurs game with passage to the semi in league cup, knock out of europe and within a point or two of the top 4, i think we will be doing very well. tough ask though, the extra 3 games in there doesnt help up at all.

carling cup game is not until mid december i think. hoping for a draw between soton and arsenal and beat cardif to setup the spurs game nicely. shame we are away to leverkusen before it. i know they are away in norway the thursday before but since they are already through they could make 11 changes in theory.

Cantona's Collars

In the good news section,it looks like Hernandez is to be offered an improved contract.

kryogen

zerks wrote: »

In the good news section,it looks like Hernandez is to be offered an improved contract.

How long is left on his current deal?

magnumbud

kryogen wrote: »

How long is left on his current deal?

2 and a half years i think

kryogen

magnumbud wrote: »

2 and a half years i think

Not sure he would want to extend right now, could be just to ensure we get maximum value for him when we sell? If he isn't happy being the back up to RVP/Rooney there is no point in him staying. He should be used more imo but its not like he will ever dislodge either for first choice status imo.

Rooney staying poses so many squad problems ironically

magnumbud

kryogen wrote: »

Not sure he would want to extend right now, could be just to ensure we get maximum value for him when we sell? If he isn't happy being the back up to RVP/Rooney there is no point in him staying. He should be used more imo but its not like he will ever dislodge either for first choice status imo.

Rooney staying poses so many squad problems ironically

i think the last month or so he has been used plenty. as long as when welbeck is fit he doesnt fall further down the pecking order i think he will get enough time but he may rather be first choice. given rooney has yet to sign a deal and RVPs age(particularly if god forbid he got a bad injury as it would be harder to come back for at 30 given his track record up to the last 3 years) he should think about it cause time could show that he could become first choice at united.

homerjay2005

magnumbud wrote: »

i know they are away in norway the thursday before but since they are already through they could make 11 changes in theory.

i think i am right in saying, they have lost 3 games already in the sundays after the europa league games, so this is one positive thing for us. its not just about who plays, its about the fact that it unsettles their preparation, some players will be involved in both squads, others will still have to travel, their entire backroom staff will be travelling.

of course they are at home (which is huge and the fact we are also away on wednesday is even more advantageous to them) and as you said they can rest alot of players and our game will be much more difficult than theirs.

the likes of Chelsea and City are better placed than us to rest players in the coming CL games, which helps them a bit. 3 away games in a week coming up, is a big ask for us...they are 3 really tough games and with a few injuries mounting up, it could be a rough week.

Cantona's Collars

The beginning of a new phase?

In some ways this week marks something of a watershed in the saga of the Glazer family’s ownership of Manchester United.

In Moston, FC United of Manchester are beginning the building of their own ground, more than eight years after their formation in the wake of the Glazer takeover of MUFC (I heartily recommend Danny Taylor’s piece on FCUM published in today’s Observer).

Two hundred miles south, the week saw the first formal meeting since 2005 between the management of Manchester United and the Manchester United Supporters Trust. The club’s meeting with MUST follows one with IMUSA and an interview by Edward Woodward with UWS.

Woodward himself has apparently told the club’s Fans Forum that he would consider the introduction of safe standing. There are early signs the end of the Ferguson/Gill era may herald a new approach by the club to its core domestic support.

The financial background to all this is radically different from 2005 too.

The decline of the financial importance of the match going fan

In the year of the takeover, United generated revenue of £157m of which Matchday income was the largest element at 42% of the total. This year (2013/14), revenue will be around £425m and Matchday will be the smallest element at barely over 25%.

Total gate receipts in 2012/13 were £54.2m, 15% of the club’s revenue. Although ticket prices have risen on average 55% since the takeover, the importance of normal season ticket holders and members has declined at the expense of the execs, corporate box holders and other hospitality clients. It is unlikely that ticket income from the c. 60,000 non-exec supporters contributes more than 10% of the club’s revenue these days. This dramatic reduction in the financial importance of normal match going fans should put to bed once and for all any ideas of boycotts or similar actions against the owners (the idea of which I have entertained in the past).

The change in the club’s revenue should also be an opportunity. There is now absolutely no need for, and little financial merit in, the sort of price increases the club put through after the takeover. The expansion of executive facilities, the building of the quadrants and the price hikes added c. £40m per annum to United’s revenue between 2005 and 2009, around 25% of the 2005 total and roughly the annual interest bill in those years. Season ticket prices haven’t moved up for several years, and there is no need for them to do so. The daft ACS could also comfortably be abolished. The extra revenue from those who are forced against their will to buy certain cup tickets is absolutely irrelevant to the club’s finances.

The financial state of the club after the debt gamble

The Glazer family took a huge gamble when they conducted a leveraged buyout of MUFC. A quick look down the East Lancs Road shows how far a major club can be set back by excessive debt. Three years after the takeover, the financial crisis hit and the PIKs began to run out of control. Only the genius of Alex Ferguson and the sale of Ronaldo to Real Madrid allowed the whole rickety show to remain on the road.

But now that phase is over. The club has over £83m of cash in the bank and net debt is down to £277m. That latter figure is roughly 2x EBITDA, down from almost 6x (including the PIKs) in 2010. The annual cost of the debt burden has fallen from £72m (including the PIKs) or £42m (excluding the PIKs) in 2010 to around £20m this year. The £600m of interest costs, fees etc will never be recovered but the risk of damage to the club a la Liverpool FC is effectively over. Because of the exploding value of TV rights, a smart commercial strategy and a once in a life time manager the gamble has paid off for the Glazers.

Where next?

The departure of Fergie and the reduction in debt means Edward Woodward faces a very different set of challenges and opportunities to those David Gill faced during most of the post 2005 period. The club can genuinely afford to compete with the likes of Barcelona, Bayern, PSG and City in the transfer market if it wishes, but showed little ability to make its financial muscle work for it in the summer window.

For match going fans the signs of early promise must be followed up with concrete action. As the financial importance of the season ticket revenue falls, the importance of the Old Trafford “brand” increases. Whilst that has a tacky sound to it, it provides the opportunity for supporters to be aligned with the club. Proper singing sections of German style rail seats behind the Stretford End and Scoreboard goals, an end to the ACS, and at the very least a continued freeze in prices are all comfortably affordable by the club and would boost the atmosphere for the benefit of everyone. No subsidy by supporters is necessary for rail seating, it is a win-win.

In the next two to three years, it is very likely the club will start paying dividends to shareholders again. There is an inevitability about this after the IPO in New York. However unwelcome for fans, dividend payments didn't hamper the club in the plc days and don't have to this time.

Looking further into the future, the irony of a football club trying to build brand loyalty whilst at war with some of its most loyal fans is laughable. Supporter engagement through fan groups and yes, an element of ownership, helps bind fans to their club, even one the size of United. Perhaps David Gill had spent too long in the trenches of United fan politics to realise this. Over to Ed….

http://andersred.blogspot.com.au/


With a new shirt sponsorship deal ongoing & the money from the new tv deal on the way it looks like we'll be debt free within 2 seasons.

Headshot

So you believe they'll use the tv deal money and the Nike deal to pay off the debt, instead of pocketing most of that money themselves?

Mitch Connor

Headshot wrote: »

So you believe they'll use the tv deal money and the Nike deal to pay off the debt, instead of pocketing most of that money themselves?

personally I reckon we will get the debt down to around 100million over the next couple of years, and then possibly leave it at the level for years. remember reading there was a point at which actually paying off the debt would be counter productive from a finances/taxation point of view.

I do think large chunks of club revenue will be used over the next couple of years to buy back bonds and pay off the bank debt.

The Glazers will obviously take money from themselves at some point in the future, but the debt won't be left at the current level as income to the club rises.

keane2097

Headshot wrote: »

So you believe they'll use the tv deal money and the Nike deal to pay off the debt, instead of pocketing most of that money themselves?

I wouldn't think it would make much financial sense to go grabbing everything as soon as the first opportunity comes up. They've been very patient so far, I imagine they're going to want to make sure they keep getting the eggs rather than killing the goose the second they're in a position to take a dividend again.

Donnielighto

Headshot wrote: »

So you believe they'll use the tv deal money and the Nike deal to pay off the debt, instead of pocketing most of that money themselves?

The thing is, that doesn't matter. Profits now or profits later the club is ridiculously healthy.

Timmyctc

Donnielighto wrote: »

The thing is, that doesn't matter. Profits now or profits later the club is ridiculously healthy.

I like to think of MY AIB bank account a similar to Man United in ways. I'm always bringing in enough money to pay off that overdraft but I'd rather spend it and maintain a level of slightly under -100 for absolutely no benefit to myself.

Comparing my bank account to Man United helps me feel better about my financial irresponsibility...

Headshot

I dont mind not paying off the whole debt but the best judgement for me that they arent exactly willing to spend money is the transfer windows. Its great the club is healthy but the squad is far from being healthy and thats where the bread and butter of your team is

I expect any day now that the Glazers will pocket the big money . Arent they going awful in America now

Mitch Connor

Headshot wrote: »

I dont mind not paying off the whole amount but the best judgement for me that they arent exactly willing to spend money is the transfer windows. Its great the club is healthy but the squad is far from being healthy and thats where the bread and butter of your team is

I expect any day now that the Glazers will pocket the big money any day now. Arent they going awful in America now

Everything I heard over the summer indicated that the Glazers were more than willing to spend very big - but Woodward/Moyes/whoever either couldn't get the deals done or didn't see a player worth the money.

Headshot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Everything I heard over the summer indicated that the Glazers were more than willing to spend very big - but Woodward/Moyes/whoever either couldn't get the deals done or didn't see a player worth the money.

I hope your right

I suppose summer will say alot once again

bullvine

For a change we'll probably see some serious action in transfer market come January?