Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

bad2dabone

K4t wrote: »

They are the complete opposite of utd in that they are lacking in quality everywhere except midfield. What I wouldn't give for even one of Wilshire/Ramsay/Ozil at united!

garbage, Chesney is the equal of de gea, our defence is the tightest in the league, and has been superior to utds for the past twelve months, stats bear this out,. United have far superior strikers in chicarito, rooney and rvp, but arsenal match or exceed utd in other areas.

Pen.Island

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

From March onwards, they have grown stronger and more resistant. You're right in that one world class in itself isn't enough but it isn't Ozil alone which has pushed the team on, although a contributing factor, they are a vast improvement on this time last year, with much more composure. Arsenal should of topped what was arguably the toughest group this year.

ETA: They are far better than last season, evidence and stats point to that.

Where were they before March? They celebrated the final day like it was a cup win. The season is from August - May.

They're still 8 years without a trophy.

bad2dabone

Pen.Island wrote: »

Yeah but people are talking about this Arsenal side as being far better than last season. You wouldn't have seen many talking about them as winning the CL last season.

I know nobody who thinks arsenal will win the cl. Its not gonna happen.

WoollyRedHat

Pen.Island wrote: »

Where were they before March? They celebrated the final day like it was a cup win. The season is from August - May.

They're still 8 years without a trophy.

No, they celebrated what was a great bounce back after the Tottenham game and knew the importance of finishing fourth from a financial point of view and attracting in new talent and getting to compete in the Champions league the following year, I didn't see them doing laps of honour mind you, but hyperbole away...

They weren't doing well before March, but have vastly improved since then, it's the present that matters and what we're discussing here, I'm sorry if you have your mind stuck back in May, it must be hard to pretend that this present exists at the moment, like a horrible fantasy of the ghosts of Christmas.

Blatter

De Gea >>>> Szczesny, IMO.

K4t

bad2dabone wrote: »

garbage, Chesney is the equal of de gea, our defence is the tightest in the league, and has been superior to utds for the past twelve months, stats bear this out,. United have far superior strikers in chicarito, rooney and rvp, but arsenal match or exceed utd in other areas.

Now that is certainly garbage! I saw at least two near costly mistakes by Chesney alone tonight. Granted he's improved a lot and is a top class goalie, just not on DDG's level. He's more similar to Hart tbh.
Solid defence but very little cover and that goes for up front too.

The only Arsenal players who would improve Utd are midfielders (Ozil/Ramsay/Wilshire) whereas Utd have players in various positions who would improve Arsenal (RVP/ROONEY, CARRICK, VIDIC/RAFAEL, DDG).

Montroseee

Arteta would also improve the midfield, possibly even rosicky haha.

bad2dabone

http://www.7amkickoff.com/2013/is-szczesny-the-best-goalkeeper-in-the-premier-league/

While I don't think he's the best goalie in the league I'd consider him as good as anyone, although he's prone to arrogance like trying to chip higuain.

Timmyctc

Ddg > Chesney
Vidic > every Arsenal Defender
Raf = Sagna imo
Evans <= Koscielney
Evra < Gibbs
RvP, Rooney, Hernandez >>>> Giroud

K4t

Timmyctc wrote: »

Ddg > Chesney
Vidic > every Arsenal Defender
Raf = Sagna imo
Evans <= Koscielney
Evra < Gibbs
RvP, Rooney, Hernandez >>>> Giroud

I wouldn't say Hernandez is better than Giroud, and Chico doesn't hold the ball up anywhere near as effecively as Giroud.

Also, Carrick > Arteta/Flamini

bad2dabone

Vidic Hasn't been the same since coming back from injury, he's a fine defender however. Ferdinand is a joker. Koscielny is far superior to evans. Ill give you evra over gibbs, but in depth monreal is better that buttner. Your forwards are better than ours, no doubt. Our midfield is better than yours.

And Wenger is superior to moyes.

And my dad is bigger than your dad.

Rayne Wooney

Hasn't this been done to death.

It's impossible to compare with different formations.

Arsenal have at least 5 midfielders who'd walk into our team, but you'd only have one spot if you stick with 4-4-2.

Whereas at least 3 United defenders would get into Arsenal's 5 man defence and RVP would be in instead of Giroud and possibly Nani instead of Walcott.

Pen.Island

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

No, they celebrated what was a great bounce back after the Tottenham game and knew the importance of finishing fourth from a financial point of view and attracting in new talent and getting to compete in the Champions league the following year, I didn't see them doing laps of honour mind you, but hyperbole away...

They weren't doing well before March, but have vastly improved since then, it's the present that matters and what we're discussing here, I'm sorry if you have your mind stuck back in May, it must be hard to pretend that this present exists at the moment, like a horrible fantasy of the ghosts of Christmas.

Players don't care about financial implications or being able to attract players. They (should) care about winning things.

I'm sure Liverpool have a lot of points in the calendar year too, don't see them thinking they're about to become challengers in Europe do we?

K4t

Timmyctc wrote: »

And my dad is bigger than your dad.

Maybe in the league but champions league is completely different...

Drexel

Came in here to see what Utd fans were talking about and it's Arsenal!!

Good times

Wouldn't take any of the Utd defenders atm. Vidic and rio seem to be waning. Especially rio. Evans only seems to play well when he is partnered with one of them two in good form. DDG is a great keeper I'd have him over Szcz. Szcz is arrogant and while he's improving this season it's obvious de gea is a better keeper. Midfield and strikers isn't in doubt.

Your Airbag

jonny666 wrote: »

Came in here to see what Utd fans were talking about and it's Arsenal!!

Good times

Wouldn't take any of the Utd defenders atm. Vidic and rio seem to be waning. Especially rio. Evans only seems to play well when he is partnered with one of them two in good form. DDG is a great keeper I'd have him over Szcz. Szcz is arrogant and while he's improving this season it's obvious de gea is a better keeper. Midfield and strikers isn't in doubt.

Come again?

ElChe32

Chesney the wee ginger lad off coronation street? Didn't know he was decent between the sticks.

Blatter

Your Airbag wrote: »

Come again?

He said midfield and strikers isn't in doubt.

As in United definitely have better strikers and Arsenal definitely have a better midfield.

PhlegmyMoses

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Parker was every bit as good as Neville

Just catching up on the thread.

He absolutely was not. Neville was up there with the best fullbacks in Europe in his pomp. Can't actually believe anyone would make the comparison.

I saw Parker play for England in 1990. Grand player but nowhere near the best in his class.

PhlegmyMoses

jonny666 wrote: »

Came in here to see what Utd fans were talking about and it's Arsenal!!

Good times

Wouldn't take any of the Utd defenders atm. Vidic and rio seem to be waning. Especially rio. Evans only seems to play well when he is partnered with one of them two in good form. DDG is a great keeper I'd have him over Szcz. Szcz is arrogant and while he's improving this season it's obvious de gea is a better keeper. Midfield and strikers isn't in doubt.

Arsenal win in midfield. Done

Your Airbag

Blatter wrote: »

He said midfield and strikers isn't in doubt.

As in United definitely have better strikers and Arsenal definitely have a better midfield.

Yes of course. Just not with it tonight.

Blatter

Your Airbag wrote: »

Yes of course. Just not with it tonight.

He wasn't very clear in fairness. I assume he meant that though.

Drexel

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Arsenal win in midfield. Done

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Arsenal win in midfield. Done

Great debate there.

Evra has been muck for two years and is still starting week in week out. Zero cover for him except for Buttner who is average. Vidic has been injured. If he gets back to his best he'd walk into any team but that's a big if at this stage. I've already said what I think about Evans. Rio is winding up his career really. Raf can be good. He can be ****e too. At this moment in time arsenals centre backs are much stronger then utd's. Kos and mert are the best in the league and have been since March.

Utd's strikers are undoubty better then arsenals. Arsenals midfield is clearly better then utd's. Defense is up for grabs but I think arsenal edge it or the reasons above.

Moyes need to play smalling and jones in centre back and get them used to it. They are both fantastic players being shifted all over due to lack of bodies in midfield. Jones more so. And he needs shot of evra ASAP. January if possible. He seems like posion to me

Drexel

Blatter wrote: »

He wasn't very clear in fairness. I assume he meant that though.

I did. Soz if it wasn't clear

Timmyctc

Vida isnt back to his 100% best but he's still absolutely class.

Burt Macklin

Timmyctc wrote: »

Vida isnt back to his 100% best but he's still absolutely class.

He was shaky against Newcastle and Everton. On this form I'd almost have Evans ahead of him.

redzerdrog

Evans is your best centre half and has been for the last couple of years

sReq | uTeK

Watching setanta here against arsenal where we stuff them 6-2 and they way we play back then compared to now. What I wouldn't give for another roy keane or becks or even butt, and how we drive forward its just like chalk and cheese.

it really shows how some of the current squad fair up against the likes of that team

Timmyctc

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Watching setanta here against arsenal where we stuff them 6-2 and they way we play back then compared to now. What I wouldn't give for another roy keane or becks or even butt, and how we drive forward its just like chalk and cheese.

it really shows how some of the current squad fair up against the likes of that team

Tbh, the way football is going, the likes of a Nicky Butt/ Keane/ Viera wouldn't be as effective imo. Game is infinitely less physical now. The standard of what qualifies as a foul is just infuriating these days. Like when commentators say "He could have gone down there and it would have been a penalty", well it shouldn't be a ****ing penalty if he has to force himself to the ground. While it would be great to have players with as much drive and an engine like them, I think the diving and softness of the game would soon drive them all to kill a referee or player or two.

PhlegmyMoses

jonny666 wrote: »

Great debate there.

Evra has been muck for two years and is still starting week in week out. Zero cover for him except for Buttner who is average. Vidic has been injured. If he gets back to his best he'd walk into any team but that's a big if at this stage. I've already said what I think about Evans. Rio is winding up his career really. Raf can be good. He can be ****e too. At this moment in time arsenals centre backs are much stronger then utd's. Kos and mert are the best in the league and have been since March.

Utd's strikers are undoubty better then arsenals. Arsenals midfield is clearly better then utd's. Defense is up for grabs but I think arsenal edge it or the reasons above.

Moyes need to play smalling and jones in centre back and get them used to it. They are both fantastic players being shifted all over due to lack of bodies in midfield. Jones more so. And he needs shot of evra ASAP. January if possible. He seems like posion to me

So basically: Arsenal clearly win in midfield. And we're done.

sReq | uTeK

Timmyctc wrote: »

Tbh, the way football is going, the likes of a Nicky Butt/ Keane/ Viera wouldn't be as effective imo. Game is infinitely less physical now. The standard of what qualifies as a foul is just infuriating these days. Like when commentators say "He could have gone down there and it would have been a penalty", well it shouldn't be a ****ing penalty if he has to force himself to the ground. While it would be great to have players with as much drive and an engine like them, I think the diving and softness of the game would soon drive them all to kill a referee or player or two.

Keanes tackling hasnt even featured much its his passing and his driving forward how many times do you see the likes of cleverly making a run ahead of the forwards. Becham got the ball at the edge.of his box beat a player and putting a 60 yard ball on yorkes foot. Oh and our wingers could cross back then

Timmyctc

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Keanes tackling hasnt even featured much its his passing and his driving forward how many times do you see the likes of cleverly making a run ahead of the forwards. Becham got the ball at the edge.of his box beat a player and putting a 60 yard ball on yorkes foot. Oh and our wingers could cross back then

I know I'm just venting is all. After watching the CL tonight and seeing people flailing arms and arching their backs when someone misses a tackle (but misses the player) makes me sad. Its an infinitely less enjoyable sport to watch now in comparison to the 90s/00s when a bit of physicalilty was allowed. I've seen so many instances of Shoulder to shoulder being punished in recent months its just going to turn into a non contact sport eventually.

IvySlayer

You only have to look at Nanis red card (slams fist on table) to see how pathetic the game has become regarding contact

Drexel

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

So basically: Arsenal clearly win in midfield. And we're done.

And defence. Oh..... we're done.

I can do it too yay

Soldie

redzerdrog wrote: »

Evans is your best centre half and has been for the last couple of years

Defensively solid, but his distribution is poor. Granted, our midfield doesn't exactly offer much of an outlet but time and time again you see Evans pump ambitious and inaccurate lobs towards our wingers and forwards.

Backstreet Moyes

Soldie wrote: »

Defensively solid, but his distribution is poor. Granted, our midfield doesn't exactly offer much of an outlet but time and time again you see Evans pump ambitious and inaccurate lobs towards our wingers and forwards.

I don't know you came to that conclusion because his ability to come out of defense with the ball and his distribution is brilliant. It's one his strongest points and he is by a distance our best defender at doing it.

Backstreet Moyes

jonny666 wrote: »

And defence. Oh..... we're done.

I can do it too yay

Nothing in defense but goalkeper and strikers are sown up. But you could easily make a case for Cazorla and Mert right now with Vidic still not 100%.

DDG

Rafael KOS Vidic Gibbs

Carrick

Ransey Wilshire

Ozil


Rooney RVP

keane2097

I wouldn't have Vidic ahead of Mert or Koscielny on this season's form I don't think.

master-t

Moyes was at the Athletico-Porto game last night. I have to assume (hope) it was to look closer at Koke?

Mitch Connor

master-t wrote: »

Moyes was at the Athletico-Porto game last night. I have to assume (hope) it was to look closer at Koke?

Hopefully he was also taking a look at Fernando of Porto - who is out of contract in the summer.

master-t

DDG, Rafa, Evans, KOS, Gibbs, Ramsey, Carrick, Ozil, Carzola, Rvp, Rooney.

**Forgot the ol LB slot

Soldie

Nuts102 wrote: »

I don't know you came to that conclusion because his ability to come out of defense with the ball and his distribution is brilliant. It's one his strongest points and he is by a distance our best defender at doing it.

Respectfully disagree. That being said, the midfield should be offering more of an outlet.

Headshot

How did Koke play last night anyway? Was he on a high?

Timmyctc

Headshot wrote: »

How did Koke play last night anyway? Was he on a high?

Backstreet Moyes

Soldie wrote: »

Respectfully disagree. That being said, the midfield should be offering more of an outlet.

Evans is our only player who can take the ball out of defense and create an attack. His distribution is easily the best we have for a centre back. I agree on the midfielders Evan's is being left with no choice but long balls because our midfield offers nothing.

I have watched the Spurs game and Shakhtar game again and it's alarming how poor our midfield is. I realise even more now how important Carrick is to the team and i think we are playing more long balls because Carrick is out.

Watching the Spurs game again the only player dropping deep looking for the ball was Cleverley. But in all honesty he was dropping deep getting the ball passing it back to the centre back who hoofs it. He just doesn't have the quality or passing range of Carrick to go forward with the ball and come out of defense. All i can say at least he dried to drop deep. But all he was doing was dropping deep letting the ball fly over his head while he is then closer to our penalty box than Spurs penalty box.

Against Shakhtar it was much worse the first half. The defenders were coming out with the ball and nobody was dropping from midfield looking for the ball. They literally could only hoof it long or pass it back to the keeper it was shocking.

I have lost all hope for Anderson but i am surprised he has not good more playing time. He is a player who can drop deep and run with the ball and pick out a pass. He may not be a great player but it is a better option than Cleverley dropping deep and passing it back the way or Giggs and Jones not dropping deep and all we can do is hoof it long. Somebody suggested Rooney dropping into midfield. I don't know if he would be happy but he could certainly drop deep and start attacks from midfield but only if RVP is up top. Rooney while not a great midfielder could be an option until January. Maybe the team below is something that could work.


DDG

Raf Vidic Evans Evra

Jones Rooney/Anderson

Nani Kagawa/Rooney Janjuaz

RVP

master-t

You know the season is heading to new lows when talks of 'Anderson should get more playing time' start doing the rounds......

2moreMinutes

master-t wrote: »

You know the season is heading to new lows when talks of 'Anderson should get more playing time' start doing the rounds......

With a good run in the team, I think this could be the season he shows his class....

Backstreet Moyes

master-t wrote: »

You know the season is heading to new lows when talks of 'Anderson should get more playing time' start doing the rounds......

It's not new lows Ferguson gave Anderson plenty of games. It's just bizzare Moyes has not giving him some games considering how weak we are in midfield. The same way it's bizzare how Zaha has not got a chance despite our wingers being terrible all season. Anderson certainly offers more to the midfield than Cleverley does.

Hank Scorpio

2moreMinutes wrote: »

With a good run in the team, I think this could be the season he shows his class....

thats been said every season and ended in dissapointed. His fitness being the main reason. I still think hes the best midfielder we got after carrick but that isnt saying much

UnitedIrishman

The incredibly frustrating thing about Anderson is that he just drifts in and out of games. If he put together a full 90 minutes of being involved in the majority of phases of the game, then he'd be a decent player. Problem is that he ball watches a lot - will go off on a big run or make a decent pass - and then he's gone for another 10 mins.

That said, given our midfield woes at the minute - it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world to try him in center midfield with Jones (perhaps in the Carling Cup against Stoke next week) and see what he does.