Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

TheMilkyPirate

A lot of talk about Koke this morning with Moyes at the game last night. Do people think he'd leave Athletico for us? Level on points with barca in la liga and sailed through their champions league group..

The_Kew_Tour

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

A lot of talk about Koke this morning with Moyes at the game last night. Do people think he'd leave Athletico for us? Level on points with barca in la liga and sailed through their champions league group..

A chance to play alongside Welbeck giving him ball after ball squandering chance after chance.

Why would he turn us down :-)

J. Marston

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

A lot of talk about Koke this morning with Moyes at the game last night. Do people think he'd leave Athletico for us? Level on points with barca in la liga and sailed through their champions league group..

He's probably better off staying there. As you said, joint top of the league, through in the Champions League and playing for a really good team with a very promising manager who's already won stuff.

Kerrydude1981

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

A lot of talk about Koke this morning with Moyes at the game last night. Do people think he'd leave Athletico for us? Level on points with barca in la liga and sailed through their champions league group..

Cant see it happening in January,would leave him cup tied for the CL and with the World Cup coming up he will be wanting to be on the plane to Rio,so it would be a bit of a risk for him leaving in January,next summer he might join up and maybe there might be a deal put in place in January like the Zaha one.

Vic Vinegar

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Cant see it happening in January,would leave him cup tied for the CL and with the World Cup coming up he will be wanting to be on the plane to Rio,so it would be a bit of a risk for him leaving in January,next summer he might join up and maybe there might be a deal put in place in January like the Zaha one.

We might not sign him in January but the cup tied thing shouldn't be an issue anyway. We'll probably only have two or four more games in the Champs League this season, whereas we'll have 20 + in the league and domestic cups.

UnitedIrishman

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Cant see it happening in January,would leave him cup tied for the CL and with the World Cup coming up he will be wanting to be on the plane to Rio,so it would be a bit of a risk for him leaving in January,next summer he might join up and maybe there might be a deal put in place in January like the Zaha one.

Being cup tied for the CL is the big one. The WC I wouldn't worry too much about as he'll be pretty much an instant starter for us and if Michu can get into their squad whilst playing for Swansea, then it shouldn't be an issue.

We need to get someone in in January though.

Soldie

How good is Koke and what type of player is he?

Backstreet Moyes

Lads Koke won't happen in January. He will miss out on Champions League football for the rest of the season if he joins us and maybe next season.

PaddyCar

So who would we like in last 16 of champers?

Your Airbag

So after the last of the UCL group games wrapped up last night the following stats emerged

We have the joint lowest amount of goals conceded in the Champions League Group Stage, alongside Chelsea and Athletico Madrid.

also

Evans included in Whoscored's statistically decided Champions League Group Stages Best XI

and it looks like both Barca and Madrid are fighting for Gundogans signature, I will be very tough for us to sign him.

Rayne Wooney

It was one of the toughest group in years but the standard wasn't that great.

When we get one of the big teams it'll all become clearer

K4t

If I was Moyes, I'd forget about those foreign talents and break the bank for Morgan Schneiderlinn of Southampton. Proven in the premier league and ready made to fill Carrick's shoes. He has been the key player for the Saints for the last three or four years and one of the main reasons for their incredible form this season. Plus he is young having just turned 24.
A player who actually is box to box in the style of Keane too with a huge engine. He also scored 5 goals in the league last season. Incredible player with a massive future.

I recommend anyone with interest in the position of midfield to read this article: http://eplindex.com/29962/epls-underrated-midfields-tactical-stats-comparison-europes-elite.html

It is also noted that Schneiderlin (aged 23) has run more miles per game than any other player in Europe’s top 5 leagues, intercepted the most balls and made the most tackles per game (for a midfielder). The biggest point to think about in terms of reading the statistics is to consider that those teams who are in the high possession and pressing category obtain such a high interception and tackle rate with less of an opportunity to do so – and before you begin to wonder whether Southampton are a team that can compete with the others listed in this category – 59% vs. Norwich, 67% vs. QPR, 59% vs. Newcastle, 55% vs. Wigan etc (this depends on which possession percentage method you use – the BBC stats show 58% vs. Liverpool etc). Either way, Southampton are a team that aim to conquer possession under Pochettino and the statistical comparison made in this article provides no real advantage for Southampton over the others in the same category.

Schneiderlin in particular, has proved this season he could play the role he does for any team in the Premier League and has the quality to play Champions League football and in the near future he can certainly be considered a starting XI player for the French national team.

kryogen

I like Schneiderlin, but I don't think he will top class, a good addition certainly, but not enough on his own.

K4t

kryogen wrote: »

I like Schneiderlin, but I don't think he will top class, a good addition certainly, but not enough on his own.

He already is.

homerjay2005

Nuts102 wrote: »

Lads Koke won't happen in January. He will miss out on Champions League football for the rest of the season if he joins us and maybe next season.

exactly, the lad would be off his rocker to even contemplate leaving a team who is flourishing for a team who are in turmoil.

the only likely scenarios that it would happen would be that we offer an obscene amount of money both to Madrid and the player, as well as the even more unlikely scenario that he has a dream to play for United, no matter what the situation is there.

the reality is, we wont be signing any players from the top clubs in January unless there is some major business pulled.

Lucas Hood

PaddyCar wrote: »

So who would we like in last 16 of champers?

Olympiakos preferably . Schalke wouldn't be too bad either.

Zenit is to far to travel.
Galatasaray & AC Milan could cause us problems.

kryogen

K4t wrote: »

He already is.

I respectfully disagree

Giggsy11

kryogen wrote: »

I like Schneiderlin, but I don't think he will top class, a good addition certainly, but not enough on his own.

He is. Will be a very good addition to the team and he brings lot more to the team. Fantastic defensively and also makes very good runs to the box.

fergiesfolly

PaddyCar wrote: »

So who would we like in last 16 of champers?

Champers?
Rugby forum that way ->

stesaurus

K4t wrote: »

If I was Moyes, I'd forget about those foreign talents and break the bank for Morgan Schneiderlinn of Southampton. Proven in the premier league and ready made to fill Carrick's shoes.

He's French no?

It hasn't exactly worked out so far with Fellaini considering he's proven either. Put it this way, there is zero guarantee someone will come in and hit the ground running so we may as well set our sights on more ambitious targets. Don't get me wrong I like Schneiderlin but I would hope we're aiming higher.

Timmyctc

Can players who are out at the group stage of CL play for another team in the knockouts?

ElChe32

Timmyctc wrote: »

Can players who are out at the group stage of CL play for another team in the knockouts?

Nope, if you've played in the group stages you can't play for another team in the competition that season.

5starpool

Timmyctc wrote: »

Can players who are out at the group stage of CL play for another team in the knockouts?

I think the European exemption is that each team can bring in one player who has played in the same season's Europa League, but not the CL.

homerjay2005

Timmyctc wrote: »

Can players who are out at the group stage of CL play for another team in the knockouts?

you are allowed to bring in one Europa league player and thats it.

of course you can bring anybody in your want to play in other competitions, just not in the CL.

K4t

s.welstead wrote: »

He's French no?

It hasn't exactly worked out so far with Fellaini considering he's proven either. Put it this way, there is zero guarantee someone will come in and hit the ground running so we may as well set our sights on more ambitious targets. Don't get me wrong I like Schneiderlin but I would hope we're aiming higher.

I meant a foreign league. He's premier league proven and has put in fantastic performances against the top teams over the last year.

Nobody ever truly believed Fellani would solve our midfield problems and if not for Moyes having worked with him at everton I seriously doubt he would ever have made it near old trafford and rightfully so. Not better than players we already have, the ability is simply not there. Morgan is on a completely different level technically. He would be a brilliant signing for utd or any of the top 4.

Lord TSC

K4t wrote: »

Nobody ever truly believed Fellani would solve our midfield problems and if not for Moyes having worked with him at everton I seriously doubt he would ever have made it near old trafford and rightfully so. Not better than players we already have, the ability is simply not there. Morgan is on a completely different level technically. He would be a brilliant signing for utd or any of the top 4.

On this...

I was thrilled to see Fel signed. Even when Fergie was there, I hoped we'd move for him in the transfer windows. Thought he would be a vast improvement over what we have.

It's easy to use his current run of bad form as a stick to beat him with, more so if you ignore how bad the entire team is doing right now. But it doesn't change the fact that I think many, many people had him high on their "To buy" list before Moyes joined. I think to try and argue that he wasn't on our radar is to ignore quite a bit of discussion on this forum...

Pro. F

Jack Cork would be the CM I'd be most interested in from Southampton. I think it's mad that he's been benched for Wanayama this season.

K4t

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

On this...

I was thrilled to see Fel signed. Even when Fergie was there, I hoped we'd move for him in the transfer windows. Thought he would be a vast improvement over what we have.

It's easy to use his current run of bad form as a stick to beat him with, more so if you ignore how bad the entire team is doing right now. But it doesn't change the fact that I think many, many people had him high on their "To buy" list before Moyes joined. I think to try and argue that he wasn't on our radar is to ignore quite a bit of discussion on this forum...

Fellani is the kind of player who looks good in a side like Everton and granted he had a few good performances against Utd over the years, caused us a lot of trouble with his strength and size. However, he is simply not good enough for the top level.

Carrick absence has been utd's biggest problem this season and Fellani is no Carrick, nor was he that kind of player at Everton, nor will he ever be. Schneiderlinn has the potential to be. We need a player who can take, no demands, the ball from our defenders and can move it on to more creative players around him, as well as get forward to join attacks and then also break up play. Schneiderlinn can do this while also being technically very proficient.

I'm sorry but Schneiderlinn and Fellani are worlds apart in terms of talent, ability and form...but then so are Pochetinno and Moyes, so go figure.

Pro. F

K4t wrote: »

Carrick absence has been utd's biggest problem this season

We had the same poor performances and poor results when Carrick was playing earlier in the season.

K4t

Pro. F wrote: »

We had the same poor performances and poor results when Carrick was playing earlier in the season.

We were 5th in the table and only 5 points off the leaders before Carrick's injury absence (losing only to Liverpool, City who always beat us and West Brom). I would define that period as a 'transitional phase' due to Moyes taking over from SAF. However, the next few games and especially the last two have shown the weakness in our team without Carrick dictating our play, and the absence of RVP didn't help either.

Vic Vinegar

K4t wrote: »

I'm sorry but Schneiderlinn and Fellani are worlds apart in terms of talent, ability and form...but then so are Pochetinno and Moyes, so go figure.

Form, yes. Talent and ability, no.... Fellaini is a constant in the Belgium midfield, they have a seriously good team and he's in there on merit.

He clearly hasn't been playing well for Man Utd this season due to carrying an injury and lack of confidence but he will come good, i'm fairly certain of this.

Pro. F

K4t wrote: »

We were 5th in the table and only 5 points off the leaders before Carrick's injury absence (losing only to Liverpool, City who always beat us and West Brom). I would define that period as a 'transitional phase' due to Moyes taking over from SAF. However, the next few games and especially the last two have shown the weakness in our team without Carrick dictating our play, and the absence of RVP didn't help either.

Oh we only got beaten by WBA and Liverpool and hockeyed by City? Oh that's okay then. The results against Cardiff, Spurs, Everton and Newcastle are very much on par with what we were getting when Carrick was in the team.

K4t

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Form, yes. Talent and ability, no.... Fellaini is a constant in the Belgium midfield, they have a seriously good team and he's in there on merit.

He clearly hasn't been playing well for Man Utd this season due to carrying an injury and lack of confidence but he will come good, i'm fairly certain of this.

Completely wrong here. I seriously doubt Fellani would even get into Everton's current starting 11 tbh.
He's generally playing in a 3 mad midfield in his preferred AM position for Belgium, surrounded by two other very strong midfielders.
His best hope at utd is as a squad player. Schneiderlinn could be the future of the club's midfield for years to come.
I don't know why I'm even arguing this, it's laughable to even compare the two.

Blatter

K4t wrote: »

Completely wrong here. I seriously doubt Fellani would even get into Everton's current starting 11 tbh.
He's generally playing in a 3 mad midfield in his preferred AM position for Belgium, surrounded by two other very strong midfielders.
His best hope at utd is as a squad player. Schneiderlinn could be the future of the club's midfield for years to come.
I don't know why I'm even arguing this, it's laughable to even compare the two.

Martinez was starting Fellaini in CM before he moved to United.

Vic Vinegar

K4t wrote: »

Completely wrong here. I seriously doubt Fellani would even get into Everton's current starting 11 tbh.
He's generally playing in a 3 mad midfield in his preferred AM position for Belgium, surrounded by two other very strong midfielders.
His best hope at utd is as a squad player. Schneiderlinn could be the future of the club's midfield for years to come.
I don't know why I'm even arguing this, it's laughable to even compare the two.

Well, your opinion is clearly more valid than mine or anyone else's. I'm sorry for disagreeing with you. Please forgive me.

K4t

Blatter wrote: »

Martinez was starting Fellaini in CM before he moved to United.

Yes, but he had little desire to keep him.

Pro. F wrote: »

Oh we only got beaten by WBA and Liverpool and hockeyed by City? Oh that's okay then. The results against Cardiff, Spurs, Everton and Newcastle are very much on par with what we were getting when Carrick was in the team.

We're nothing special with Carrick in the team, but without him we're a hopeless mess.

Will I Amnt

K4t wrote: »

Yes, but he had little desire to keep him

And you've been talking to him or something???

adox

Carrick had been having a poor season this season up to his injury.

There isn't a hope in hell that the current problems Utd have will be fixed with the return of Carrick, if only it was that simple.

Don't get me wrong, it will be great to have him back but he's been as poor as the rest of them this season.

Blatter

K4t wrote: »

Yes, but he had little desire to keep him.

That's why they held onto him until the dying minutes of the transfer window. Fellaini had to hand in a transfer request on deadline day to push the move through. But sure, Martinez had little desire to keep him :rolleyes:

K4t

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Well, your opinion is clearly more valid than mine or anyone else's. I'm sorry for disagreeing with you. Please forgive me.

Aplogies if I came across patronising.
I just honestly believe that Schneiderlinn is a terrific talent who would actually improve our team whereas Fellani is nothing more than a decent squad player at this level.

K4t

Blatter wrote: »

That's why they held onto him until the dying minutes of the transfer window. Fellaini had to hand in a transfer request on deadline day to push the move through. But sure, Martinez had little desire to keep him :rolleyes:

This isn't really the point though. I admitted earlier that Fellani was very good for Everton and the way they set up played to his strengths. However, he is not good enough for Utd or a top 4 side.

adox wrote: »

Carrick had been having a poor season this season up to his injury.

There isn't a hope in hell that the current problems Utd have will be fixed with the return of Carrick, if only it was that simple.

Don't get me wrong, it will be great to have him back but he's been as poor as the rest of them this season.

He makes a huge difference, in controlling the tempo of the game and making players around him perform better.

adox

K4t wrote: »

He makes a huge difference, in controlling the tempo of the game and making players around him perform better.

He really hasn't though this season and has been poor, which was my point.

I don't mean to be condescending but it's naive to think that Carricks return will sort out Utds problems.

Pro. F

K4t wrote: »

We're nothing special with Carrick in the team, but without him we're a hopeless mess.

If that were true then we wouldn't have had a draw with Spurs and one goal losses to Everton and Newcastle. The team is weakened without Carrick just now, but it's not a huge difference like you and others are claiming.

Pen.Island

I was how bad it is with Moyes and the team, then I realised he tried to sign Herrera/Fab/Khedira and/or Coentrao. Gives me hope tbh.

homerjay2005

Pen.Island wrote: »

I was how bad it is with Moyes and the team, then I realised he tried to sign Herrera/Fab/Khedira and/or Coentrao. Gives me hope tbh.

another one who praises him for "trying" to sign somebody....talk about smalltime expectations.

he is also "trying" to win us the league and "trying" to get us playing good football. he has not been sucessful so far in any of them.

he wont get any praise in the transfer market, until he actually signs the players we need.

Pen.Island

homerjay2005 wrote: »

another one who praises him for "trying" to sign somebody....talk about smalltime expectations.

he is also "trying" to win us the league and "trying" to get us playing good football. he has not been sucessful so far in any of them.

he wont get any praise in the transfer market, until he actually signs the players we need.

If players don't want to come that's not his fault. At least we see the calibre of players he wants..

Headshot

Pen.Island wrote: »

If players don't want to come that's not his fault. At least we see the calibre of players he wants..

Might as well bid for Messi in Jan then....

homerjay2005

Pen.Island wrote: »

If players don't want to come that's not his fault. At least we see the calibre of players he wants..

it shouldnt take weeks, even months to figure that out. while questions remain over herrara, if he really wanted him, its no excuse to go bidding for him with the window about to close.

its not rocket science signing players, other clubs were able to get most of their work done quickly but we struggled to do it in 2 months.

Bleating Lamb

Call this a Christmas wish list but for long term health of the club this is how I (and a lot of other logical committed fans I can only surmise) would like to see next year go.
Firstly people need to give Moyes some time...I don't think he's a messiah by any means but it's laughable to hear fans looking for him to be sacked already.
I think he messed up a bit by shipping out likes of Muelensteen so quickly but see why he thought he should.im not a fan of Fellaini,he's not a Utd type player....but let's give him till after WC...if he's still not performing,cut losses and sell.
Hope to Christ they don't panic buy in Jan market...maybe loan in a decent MF player not getting a game in Spain or Germany,
Hopefully get rid of Anderson or Young In Jan if they can find a club silly enuf to buy them!...the same goes for Buttner,Valencia,Fabio in summer.
Play a consistent settle defence without Rio whose past it
Buy early and well in summer,even if that means giving extra before the WC...need a LB,proper left footed left winger,defensive midfielder whose got bit of skill(ie not Phil Jones:)).... And I would love to see them go for Ross Barkley...reminds me of a young Paul Scholes.
Could live with Utd not making Champ league next season if all or some of above happened
PS- let Giggs and Rio retire gracefully.

WoollyRedHat

Pen.Island wrote: »

Players don't care about financial implications or being able to attract players. They (should) care about winning things.

I'm sure Liverpool have a lot of points in the calendar year too, don't see them thinking they're about to become challengers in Europe do we?

If you can't attract the players like Ozil, it becomes harder to win things. I never particurarly mentioned anything about challengers in Europe, with a key focus being on the PL. And Liverpool would actually have to be in Europe to be considered challenger anyway.. don't really see your point.