Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Backstreet Moyes

yabadabado wrote: »

Barkley plays in the same position as rooney,already have Kagawa who is a much better player and he cant get his game.Barkley will be going for 30m+ when Everton sell him.
Dont rate Lallana ,he has had a good season so far but wont improve the first XI much imo.

Kagawa has got a few chances the last few games and has done nothing worth talking about.

On Barkley he still has a long way to go would cost a bomb and is not worth it. Ravel Morrison will cost half the price and will be the better player but it's a risk bringing him back.

Lallana would improve our starting 11 a lot more than Barkley and would not cost that much at all. Players like Lallana, Jack Cork, Schneiderlin, Cabaye, etc would massively improve the squad if we got them in and got rid of some dead wood. Not going to happen but getting say Lallana and one of those midfielders would improve our chances of getting top 4. Once these players are coming in to replace the likes of Young, Anderson, Cleverley and Anderson.

Backstreet Moyes

Homer seriously how can you give out about Henriquez and Powell. They cost pittance between them and can only improve. Henriquez a Chilean international at 17 or just after he turned 18. Powell who was signed at 17 as a prospect and i think if he didn't miss last season with injury he would be a squad player this season. I will give you Buttner but investing in young talents is very important i don't see how anybody could be against it. Their is no young striker as good as Henriquez and so what if their is what difference does it make the more young talent the better.

Your Airbag

UTD have always mixed young potential with big name signings in the transfer market. Its seems lately our big name signings have not worked out as well or have become less frequent. Fergie had one lined up this summer until he decided to retire apparently.

I would say Kagawa and DDG are our last two. DDG has been a hit but Kag is struggling. His two best displays have been against German opposition which he knows all about but he struggles in the league.

Hopefully Moyes will make us happy in January with a couple of big additions.

brinty

Your Airbag wrote: »

UTD have always mixed young potential with big name signings in the transfer market. Its seems lately our big name signings have not worked out as well or have become less frequent. Fergie had one lined up this summer until he decided to retire apparently.

I would say Kagawa and DDG are our last two. DDG has been a hit but Kag is struggling. His two best displays have been against German opposition which he knows all about but he struggles in the league.

Hopefully Moyes will make us happy in January with a couple of big additions.

Yea we signed some fella called Robin Van Persie last summer...he has been well and truly sh1t3

As for january i won't hold my breath..

Kerrydude1981

jonnyfingers wrote: »

Is there any chance of getting a few decent players in on loan this year? I think we can all agree that the players United really need can't be got in January. So what we need are some players to get us to the summer hopefully in a top 4 position.

What I really don't want us to do is buy in average players in January on long term contracts as a stop-gap until we get better players in the summer.

I think this is something we could see happening,as I cant see any of the top players moving in January.

brinty

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

I think this is something we could see happening,as I cant see any of the top players moving in January.

Wonder would Madrid loan out Alonso??? Don't think he's played champions league with injury or is he out for the season...him and carrick would leave us able to play 4-2-3-1

kryogen

Anyone hear anything about us moving for Oliver Torres this summer due to Barcelona getting more interested?

Id have preferred to let him develop there for another couple of seasons maybe, but if he is available and if Barca are starting to sniff around with intent I think (as long as we are actually interested) we should move for him. Not exactly needed right now, but if he continues the way he has been going he is going to be a super player.

Just mentioned it as it was said to me today that Moyes was there (at the Madrid game) to have a look at Koke and a couple of other players and also wanted to make a personal enquiry about the situation regarding Oli, no idea how much truth there is to it though.

jonnyfingers

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

I think this is something we could see happening,as I cant see any of the top players moving in January.

There's a small chance that the likes of Coentrao or Lucas Moura could be available on loan. I'm sure there are a number of decent players across Europe who could come in a do a short-term job for us. I'd rather see us going down that route than signing a slew of average players who would bloat the squad even further.

yabadabado

brinty wrote: »

Wonder would Madrid loan out Alonso??? Don't think he's played champions league with injury or is he out for the season...him and carrick would leave us able to play 4-2-3-1

Alonso missed the start of the season with injury but has played regularly since November in the la liga and champions league.He still has a lot to offer and would be a good stop gap but I doubt real would be willing to sell.

Agueroooo

RVP out for a month with thigh strain.

Rayne Wooney

Link would be appreciated

El Horseboxo

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Link would be appreciated

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9071420/premier-league-robin-van-persie-ruled-out-for-a-month

Irish94

Manchester United ‏@ManUtd
Robin van Persie is out for a month with a thigh injury. David Moyes revealed this in a separate briefing for radio reporters. #mufc

LiamoSail

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Link would be appreciated

Was just on SSN

J. Marston

RasTa wrote: »

He is not really good enough to be starting his own brand. TC23 ala Bale, Ronaldo or Rooney etc.

Stick to the football for now Tom

That's the first thing that made me dislike him a couple of years ago. I'm a Tom Cleverley hater hipster.

Agueroooo wrote: »

RVP out for a month with thigh strain.

Don't see how people can shrug off that Verheijen stuff now. Van Persie was grand for years and now Moyes and his team have turned him into a crock again.

nullzero

Really not our season is it?

Agueroooo

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Link would be appreciated

Sorry got the feed about 1:15 but not confirmed til just after 2pm

also rumours of a flu outbreak amongst some of the team - not confirmed.

jonnyfingers

J. Marston wrote: »

Don't see how people can shrug off that Verheijen stuff now. Van Persie was grand for years and now Moyes and his team have turned him into a crock again.

I believe there's some truth in it. However he could also have just had a very lucky season last year with injury. In this case I think he may have been rushed back from injury too soon with Rooney being banned against Newcastle.

It's bad news though. We've been struggling to score goals lately and he will be badly missed. I feel for Moyes though. The next few games are crucial for our season and he's without one of our best players.

Unearthly

Fecking hell. Such a Crap season gets even worse

Oregano_State

J. Marston wrote: »

Don't see how people can shrug off that Verheijen stuff now. Van Persie was grand for years and now Moyes and his team have turned him into a crock again.

I don't know if I buy into the whole 'Moyes is flogging the players' line that seems to be getting bandied about more and more lately.

It is a little strange that RVP picked up so many niggles this season, but I would imagine that he knows his own body and knows how he managed to stay healthy for the past two years. I'm pretty sure he would have his own tailored regime to keep himself healthy.

In recent previous seasons we have been absolutely BATTERED by injuries, especially in defense. Overall, I think the squads injuries have been less significant this season than in the past couple at a similar time-point.

It could just be that RVP, having picked up an initial niggle a couple of months back, has been too eager himself to get back in the team and has suffered knock-on consequences from that. Or it could just be that he's been unlucky, which isn't unlikely either.

Basically, blaming our new manager for anything and everything that goes wrong seems to be in vogue right now, but it's never that simple.

beno619

homerjay2005 wrote: »

yes. are you actually saying we didnt overpay for him? he cost over €20million. for that, he should be world class and he is no where near it. he wouldnt get in any other teams at the top of the game.

That's ridiculous, He's the outstanding young defender in our side.
You seem to forget he's a centre half doing a job for us in midfield. A really good job IMO. Ozil is still in his pocket and he kept Ronaldo quite in the champions league last season until Nani got sent off.
He's far better the Cleverley who is an actual cm.

On Kagawa
His struggles are a failure on Moyes part, he's performed well against the German sides as he's actually been played in the hole.
How Moyes refuses to see playing him on the left is just an exerciser in frustration is beyond me.

magnumbud

homerjay2005 wrote: »

of course he did, when United didnt want to pay the agent fees. had United paid it, he would have signed for us. Fergie himself confirmed the fees story was true and how absurd it was. why on earth would a player sign for us, when we wouldnt meet his demands with another team ready to do so?

you flat out guarantee he would have even if we had and im glad we didnt his transfer fee and wages were enough already without paying the agent sickening money.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

yes. are you actually saying we didnt overpay for him? he cost over €20million. for that, he should be world class and he is no where near it. he wouldnt get in any other teams at the top of the game.

now, he is still young, can develop and can improve and has many good qualities, but he is very limited and having the likes of Jones in our team, is part of the reason (of which there are many) why our football quality has been sh*t for the past 3 or 4 years. in terms of actual football, he offers very little compared to what Rafael, Evans/Rio, Carrick/Giggs offer in his positions.

he does a job, but thats its and is a negative player, rather than the spark we need in CM.

i'm happy with the fee we paid for him, i think he is a class player and will continue to improve and more than pay back his fee like rio and rooney did. i think that we were paying that much because arsenal and liverpool also wanted him and blackburn rightly milked as much out of him.

he has been played out of position most of the time he has been at the club and always puts a proper shift in and i think he was one of the few players who could actually hold his head hi from the last 4 PL games and thats playing out of position.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

our structure has been in place for about 10 years now, with the long term investments in the likes of Rio, Carrick, rooney and more being the foundation of the team. we have multiple players who are with the club 6 years.

all we need each year is to top up our first 11 with 1, maybe 2 world class players and bring through young players, we didnt need the same level of investment the other teams needed as we had the players already.

id rather that money spend on young for example was spend on a midfielder with youngs place in the squad going to a young lad. even signing Butter and Henriquez and Powell made no sense, with players of equal ability in the youth ranks just bursting for games.

playing the likes of Giggs in CM, with Young on the wing would be part of the reason why Pogba would have left.

buying young players with potential has always been our way and long may it continue. you cant rely on the academy to produce all the time. if we didnt do it we would have players like hernandez and rafael.

im not getting into the pogba debate.

beno619 wrote: »

On Kagawa
His struggles are a failure on Moyes part, he's performed well against the German sides as he's actually been played in the hole.
How Moyes refuses to see playing him on the left is just an exerciser in frustration is beyond me.

the games that moyes has played kagawa in the hole are the games that one of rooney or rvp have been injured. i know people love kagawa but those 2 players are ahead of him and should not be dropped to suit kagawa as when he has been played 80% of the time he has not put in the effort to show he should be played. left wing or otherwise. if he wants to get the no 10 role he should play his heart out no matter where he is played like rooney has done on a number of occasions

Agueroooo

Oregano_State wrote: »

I don't know if I buy into the whole 'Moyes is flogging the players' line that seems to be getting bandied about more and more lately.


Basically, blaming our new manager for anything and everything that goes wrong seems to be in vogue right now, but it's never that simple.

spot on.

If Van Persie was on a specialist training regime then I am sure there would have been a briefing between Ferguson and the new manager on how to manage one of their best assets.

its not as if Ferguson just handed the keys to Moyes and said ' bye now I'm off, enjoy'

kryogen

J. Marston wrote: »

That's the first thing that made me dislike him a couple of years ago. I'm a Tom Cleverley hater hipster.


Don't see how people can shrug off that Verheijen stuff now. Van Persie was grand for years and now Moyes and his team have turned him into a crock again.

Was grand for years seems a bit of a stretch, two full seasons wasn't it?

Not that it lessens the possibility that the new training regime may be hampering him as well as others. It is just speculation though

The_Kew_Tour

Huge disappointment now.

Any word on Carrick?

Skylinehead

J. Marston wrote: »

Van Persie was grand for years and now Moyes and his team have turned him into a crock again.

Pretty inevitable really, he's naturally injury-prone. Surprised it didn't happen sooner.

Pro. F

Nuts102 wrote: »

Homer seriously how can you give out about Henriquez and Powell. They cost pittance between them and can only improve. Henriquez a Chilean international at 17 or just after he turned 18. Powell who was signed at 17 as a prospect and i think if he didn't miss last season with injury he would be a squad player this season. I will give you Buttner but investing in young talents is very important i don't see how anybody could be against it. Their is no young striker as good as Henriquez and so what if their is what difference does it make the more young talent the better.

Homer is not really one of those posters who pays attention to his own opinion too much.

These are exactly the types of purchase - low cost punt on a young hopeful - that up until recently he was regularly advocating:

2011 "ive no problem signing these low cost lads like obertan, diouf etc etc and try to develop them, as if it doesnt work out, we can always resell for good money and not lose anything on them. look at tosic, richardson, foster for example in recent timess, they got us over £20 million."

2013"signed to be developed and sold at a profit like the dozens and dozens of players that we have done like this over the past decade.
we probably have sold well over £50million quids worth of young players in this time, sure richardson was sold for £6million alone ffs! add in the likes of Tosic, Foster and Obertan and your over £20million already. "

2013"we definately appear to have it within our business model to make money from developing players who are unknowns, with Bebe being the exception.
i wonder if Powell, henriquez and butter also fall into this category?"

beno619

magnumbud wrote: »

the games that moyes has played kagawa in the hole are the games that one of rooney or rvp have been injured. i know people love kagawa but those 2 players are ahead of him and should not be dropped to suit kagawa as when he has been played 80% of the time he has not put in the effort to show he should be played. left wing or otherwise. if he wants to get the no 10 role he should play his heart out no matter where he is played like rooney has done on a number of occasions

There are multiple times RVP should not have played, him breaking down today is proof of that.

I think RVP injury may be a blessing in disguise with the games we have coming up. If Kagawa plays in the hole behind Rooney in a 3 man midfield I would be fairly confident about our football improving.

yabadabado

is Rooney available for Villa game ?

magnumbud

beno619 wrote: »

There are multiple times RVP should not have played, him breaking down today is proof of that.

I think RVP injury may be a blessing in disguise with the games we have coming up. If Kagawa plays in the hole behind Rooney in a 3 man midfield I would be fairly confident about our football improving.

i really dont get this view point, yeah dont play our best goal scorer so that we can play a player who for the most part has been disappointing since joining

The_Kew_Tour

yabadabado wrote: »

is Rooney available for Villa game ?

Yes thank god

beno619

magnumbud wrote: »

i really dont get this view point, yeah dont play our best goal scorer so that we can play a player who for the most part has been disappointing since joining

I dont agree with playing a unfit striker with a dodgy injury record unless its a huge game.

RasTa

We shall be seeing a lot more Kagawa at 10 during this month. No Danny or Hernandez please, well I don't mind Hernandez too much but not all the time

Pro. F

J. Marston wrote: »

Don't see how people can shrug off that Verheijen stuff now. Van Persie was grand for years and now Moyes and his team have turned him into a crock again.

Verheijen should be ignored because of how he acts on twitter. He sounds like a nobody who is bitter about not having a top job.

The problems with Moyes' treatment of RvP are fairly obvious though imo. During the summer tour Moyes said he had over trained RvP and now, in the Newcastle game, Moyes played him for the full 90 when he was only supposed to play for an hour. It doesn't take a physio expert with inside knowledge to see that that sort of treatment of a brittle player is going to cause problems.

magnumbud

RasTa wrote: »

We shall be seeing a lot more Kagawa at 10 during this month. No Danny or Hernandez please, well I don't mind Hernandez too much but not all the time

god we need hernandez. i have no faith in anyone else bar rooney scoring for us during the coming month

Pro. F wrote: »

Verheijen should be ignored because of how he acts on twitter. He sounds like a nobody who is bitter about not having a top job.

The problems with Moyes' treatment of RvP are fairly obvious though imo. During the summer tour Moyes said he had over trained RvP and now, in the Newcastle game, Moyes played him for the full 90 when he was only supposed to play for an hour. It doesn't take a physio expert with inside knowledge to see that that sort of treatment of a brittle player is going to cause problems.

in his defense during the newcastle game you could quite clearly see moyes shout "robin are you sure you can continue" before making the last change and rvp had assured him he could play.

Pro. F

magnumbud wrote: »

in his defense during the newcastle game you could quite clearly see moyes shout "robin are you sure you can continue" before making the last change and rvp had assured him he could play.

That isn't an excuse for a manager. Very few players are going to say "I feel okay, but I better come off. Remember my injury record and what the physio said about me needing a gradual re-introduction to competitive football after a lay off." when they are out on the pitch and their team is losing.

magnumbud

Pro. F wrote: »

That isn't an excuse for a manager. Very few players are going to say "I feel okay, but I better come off. Remember my injury record and what the physio said about me needing a gradual re-introduction to competitive football after a lay off." when they are out on the pitch and their team is losing.

and very few managers are gonna take off the most likely player to score when 1 nil down. its a risk he took and unfortunately it didnt work out. can imagine most managers would do the same

Pro. F

magnumbud wrote: »

and very few managers are gonna take off the most likely player to score when 1 nil down. its a risk he took and unfortunately it didnt work out. can imagine most managers would do the same

RvP wasn't even playing well though. I don't think it would have been unusual for a manager to have subbed him in those circumstances.

If it was just the fact that Moyes kept him on when he knew he shouldn't I wouldn't mind too much. But combine that with the carry on in the summer and I think it's just another bit of management that Moyes is showing himself to be not very good at.

magnumbud

Pro. F wrote: »

RvP wasn't even playing well though. I don't think it would have been unusual for a manager to have subbed him in those circumstances.

If it was just the fact that Moyes kept him on when he knew he shouldn't I wouldn't mind too much. But combine that with the carry on in the summer and I think it's just another bit of management that Moyes is showing himself to be not very good at.

he kept saha fit longer than fergie ever managed :pac:

tallaghtmick

Woodward out of transfer dealings apparently

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2013/12/13/4475528/moyes-getting-to-grips-with-manchester-united-transfer-plans

Can goal.com be taken seriously?

If so plus one for Moyes, shows hes taking no ****e!

magnumbud

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Woodward out of transfer dealings apparently

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2013/12/13/4475528/moyes-getting-to-grips-with-manchester-united-transfer-plans

Can goal.com be taken seriously?

If so plus one for Moyes, shows hes taking no ****e!

no not at all but hopefully this part can be

wadacrack

Raymond Van Verheijen is very knowledgeable about the fitness requirements for football.However is probably very hard to work for .He has very strong views. He was on the FFS last year.Everything he said was spot on. Bellamy hired him as personal trainer and his injury problems were gone. Van Persie had a tigh problem as far back as July. I really suspect that Moyes is overtraining the players. the days of long hard running should be gone. Moyes comments in the summer that we purposely overtrained van Persie was very surprising

Your Airbag

J. Marston wrote: »

Don't see how people can shrug off that Verheijen stuff now. Van Persie was grand for years and now Moyes and his team have turned him into a crock again.

RVP had one injury free season with us. His time at Arsenal is littered with injuries.

Your Airbag

Your Airbag wrote: »

RVP had one injury free season with us. His time at Arsenal is littered with injuries.

Afaik, only the past two seasons were injury free for him. He has suffered terribly with injuries over the years.

homerjay2005

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Woodward out

if only.....:(

Lord TSC

So RVP is hurt....until Rooney gets hurt, then RVP can play again...and Rooney is back, and RVP is hurt again...and hurt till the transfer window opens...

Vic Vinegar

Kagawa will have a chance to impress in the no.10 role then anyway with Rooney as striker.

RVP wasn't exactly on fire so we may not miss him that much.

Robson99

homerjay2005 wrote: »

yes. are you actually saying we didnt overpay for him? he cost over €20million. for that, he should be world class and he is no where near it. he wouldnt get in any other teams at the top of the game.

Name me 1 World Class player that you could buy for €20m

He would get into the Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea and city team at CB
Jones is a top class CB and IMO the only reason he hasnt commanded his place is because Vidic has been excellent since Jones came. He was worth the money

homerjay2005 wrote: »

now, he is still young, can develop and can improve and has many good qualities, but he is very limited and having the likes of Jones in our team, is part of the reason (of which there are many) why our football quality has been sh*t for the past 3 or 4 years. in terms of actual football, he offers very little compared to what Rafael, Evans/Rio, Carrick/Giggs offer in his positions.

he does a job, but thats its and is a negative player, rather than the spark we need in CM.

Bollox. He has been very impressive when played in the holding role. True he hasnt got as much football as some other players mentioned but would you play Vidic in MF? I dont think so.

Jones is a CB for the future and is is the ideal partner for either Smalling or Evans. Both of them are more comfortable on the ball but he is more physical. You need one of each

shano_88

Robson99 wrote: »

Name me 1 World Class player that you could buy for €20m

He would get into the Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea and city team at CB
Jones is a top class CB and IMO the only reason he hasnt commanded his place is because Vidic has been excellent since Jones came. He was worth the money

Jones would definitely not start in Arsenal or Citys defence. Probably not in Liverpools either imo.

onemorechance

shano_88 wrote: »

Jones would definitely not start in Arsenal or Citys defence. Probably not in Liverpools either imo.

He doesn't often start in the United defence either. So far he is at best 4th choice behind Vidic, Evans and Ferdinand, possibly even Smalling.