Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Quandary

Pen.Island wrote: »

I think we can say Ozil wouldn't have made much difference to our fortunes this season.

25 mins gone in the City game and I haven't seen him.

He did get the assist for the Walcott goal iirc

Pen.Island

Quandary wrote: »

He did get the assist for the Walcott goal iirc

But missing other than that.

Just because he has an assist doesn't mean anything, his performance is terrible. Offered nothing else at all.

Compare him to Toure for City who's been involved in several good things.

yabadabado

homerjay2005 wrote: »

anybody like to predict their top 4 now, before the christmas rush of games?

City
Chelsea
Arsenal
Man United.

Thats how I see it finishing up. but United need to up their performances.surely things can only get better even without signings in January ,be great to get a top midfielder in the transfer window but I'm not sure it will happen.

Gadge

Pen.Island wrote: »

Compare him to Toure for City who's been involved in several good things.

Including losing the ball easily for the Arsenal goal

Pen.Island

Gadge wrote: »

Including losing the ball easily for the Arsenal goal

But more than made up for it.

Quandary

Pen.Island wrote: »

But missing other than that.

Just because he has an assist doesn't mean anything, his performance is terrible. Offered nothing else at all.

Compare him to Toure for City who's been involved in several good things.

If arsenal go on to win this by a goal then his assist proves decisive in the game.

Let's see how he gets on in the 2nd half.

This discussion really belongs in the match thread though.

Oregano_State

Pen.Island wrote: »

I think we can say Ozil wouldn't have made much difference to our fortunes this season.

25 mins gone in the City game and I haven't seen him.

Yeah because that 25mins is representative of his performances this season. Great analysis lad, fair play.

Oregano_State

Pen.Island wrote: »

I think we can say Ozil wouldn't have made much difference to our fortunes this season.

25 mins gone in the City game and I haven't seen him.

Yeah because that 25mins is representative of his performances this season. Great analysis lad, fair play.

Dont be at yourself

Pen.Island wrote: »

But missing other than that.

Just because he has an assist doesn't mean anything, his performance is terrible. Offered nothing else at all.

Compare him to Toure for City who's been involved in several good things.

I think we're watching different games. Ozil played a lovely ball around the fullback to set up Wilshire (who's been awful) in the first 20 minutes. By contrt, Toure has been caught in position, including in the build up Walcott's goal.

Pen.Island

Oregano_State wrote: »

Yeah because that 25mins is representative of his performances this season. Great analysis lad, fair play.

You not watch him this season? Disappeared in most of the big games.

Pen.Island

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I think we're watching different games. Ozil played a lovely ball around the fullback to set up Wilshire (who's been awful) in the first 20 minutes. By contrt, Toure has been caught in position, including in the build up Walcott's goal.

Negredo goal, his shot, his tackle. Just 3 great things he did in the first half.

Dont be at yourself

Pen.Island wrote: »

Negredo goal, his shot, his tackle. Just 3 great things he did in the first half.

With your definition of greatness, Moyes is sure to enter the pantheon of great managers this season!

Meanwhile, Ozil involved in 6 of Arsenal's last 10 goals.

Pen.Island

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

With your definition of greatness, Moyes is sure to enter the pantheon of great managers this season!

Meanwhile, Ozil involved in 6 of Arsenal's last 10 goals.

Wilshere has done more in the game than Ozil today.

Also I'm not allowed post in the match thread because I am showing support for City.

yabadabado

Pen.Island wrote: »

Wilshere has done more in the game than Ozil today.

Also I'm not allowed post in the match thread because I am showing support for City.

What ?

Montroseee

Watching this City game is depressing. The amount of quality they have all over the pitch is just unreal, wouldn't be surprised at all if they caused a big upset in CL. Rooney and DDG are the only players this season that could get into their team.

Lord TSC

City don't look like a team in "transition"....

tallaghtmick

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

City don't look like a team in "transition"....

City dont start with excuses before the season starts.

Nalz

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

City don't look like a team in "transition"....

True. However they came second by the skin of their teeth in the CL and have lost 4 games in the league already.

We won our group and lost only 1 more. Pity about those last few minute draw snatchers by Southampton and Cardiff

Not making excuses and not entirely comparable but hasn't been plain sailing either for them

Quandary

If City can get their away form going at all they will p1ss the league. They're so impressive at home it's not funny.

How Soon Is Now

Trilla wrote: »

True. However they came second by the skin of their teeth in the CL and have lost 4 games in the league already.

We won our group and lost only 1 more. Pity about those last few minute draw snatchers by Southampton and Cardiff

Not making excuses but hasn't been plain sailing either for them

At least there scoring goals and playing good football.

We aint been playing good football for a long time now. A game here and there aint right for club like United who are known for there attacking exciting football.

Its got stage where i dont even watch alot of the group games from the champions league because we have become for the most part a boring team.

The_Kew_Tour

Whoever is ahead of City will win league. That is if any team is. Some team.

we are so far behind them as things stand

Headshot

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Whoever is ahead of City will win league. That is if any team is. Some team.

we are so far behind them as things stand

far far far far behind

yabadabado

Trilla wrote: »

True. However they came second by the skin of their teeth in the CL and have lost 4 games in the league already.

We won our group and lost only 1 more. Pity about those last few minute draw snatchers by Southampton and Cardiff

Not making excuses and not entirely comparable but hasn't been plain sailing either for them

they seem to be improving week on week and United don't .City are also playing really good football.City are poor away from home but if thats sorted out it will be very hard to stop them.

Quandary

yabadabado wrote: »

it will be very hard to stop them.

At least we don't have to worry about stopping them.

RasTa

tallaghtmick wrote: »

City dont start with excuses before the season starts.

They had their £90m spent long before transfer deadline day.

mewe

homerjay2005 wrote: »

anybody like to predict their top 4 now, before the christmas rush of games?

City
Chelsea
Arsenal
Man United.

that is depending on us signing players in the summer and Moyes stepping up. we are as likely to finish 6th, as much as 4th giving the way things are going.

Liverpool and Spurs could easily finish ahead of us but will be interesting to see how people think it will go and who will end up being right come May.

Arsenal
City
Chelsea
United

Your Airbag

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

City don't look like a team in "transition"....

Spending 1 billion or very close to it since 08 and outlaying more in the first four years after Sheikh Mansours takeover than Fergie did in 25 years at UTD (inflation not accounted for) will help ease any transitional period.

Montroseee

I thought along with many others that they overpaid for Fernandinho but anytime I've seen him play, he looks the real deal.

OctavarIan

Quandary wrote: »

If City can get their away form going at all they will p1ss the league. They're so impressive at home it's not funny.

Played 8, won 8, scored 35, conceded 5. Put 16 goals past us, Spurs and Arsenal in the process. That's fairly scary form.

MagicIRL

City are scary. Lovely to watch, too. Their midfield is orgasmic.

lordgoat

Chelsea
City
Arsenal
No idea

Kirby

Chelsea wont win the league unless they sign Rooney, Falcao or somebody similar in January. Their current strikers aren't quite good enough. Similarly, Arsenal wont win it with only Giroud.

City will win because they have Aguero and Negredo. It makes a big difference having world class strikers.

homerjay2005

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Whoever is ahead of City will win league. That is if any team is. Some team.

we are so far behind them as things stand

kinda makes those lads who questioned their quality a few weeks back when they were only one point ahead of us, look a little silly now eh?

they are a quality team, wont be far off in Europe either with a good draw AND as was said many weeks ago, are absolutely miles ahead of us.

the benifit of a good summer, early, quick and efficient is paying its dividends now.

Nalz

yabadabado wrote: »

they seem to be improving week on week and United don't .City are also playing really good football.City are poor away from home but if thats sorted out it will be very hard to stop them.

I agree. I think they'll win it as we're already out of the race imo and Chelsea and Arsenal will slip up a considerable amount. Liverpool and Spurs will fade imo also

homerjay2005 wrote: »

kinda makes those lads who questioned their quality a few weeks back when they were only one point ahead of us, look a little silly now eh?
.

Its still December, they're my favourites but lets not sing their praises that much because they've upped their game the last 6 weeks or so. Earl y still... that's why I think we can get 4th or 3rd

Kirby

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the benifit of a good summer, early, quick and efficient is paying its dividends now.

To be fair, they can outspend you. For every 30 million you spend they will spend 90. It helps.

xtal191

homerjay2005 wrote: »

anybody like to predict their top 4 now, before the christmas rush of games?

City
Chelsea
Arsenal
Man United.

that is depending on us signing players in the summer and Moyes stepping up. we are as likely to finish 6th, as much as 4th giving the way things are going.

Liverpool and Spurs could easily finish ahead of us but will be interesting to see how people think it will go and who will end up being right come May.

City
Arsenal
Chelsea
Utd if we improve if not Liverpool will finish 4th

The_Kew_Tour

homerjay2005 wrote: »

kinda makes those lads who questioned their quality a few weeks back when they were only one point ahead of us, look a little silly now eh?

they are a quality team, wont be far off in Europe either with a good draw AND as was said many weeks ago, are absolutely miles ahead of us.

the benifit of a good summer, early, quick and efficient is paying its dividends now.

The fact they are 2nd seeds in Europe will make it tough. But they have a chance no doubt.

irishfeen

Lads and Ladies I was just wondering do you think tickets for united's last 16 champions league game at OT will be on public sale on man utd.com after Mondays draw? ... Looking to get the brother tickets for Christmas, if not when will Feb-on tickets for the smaller PL games be available like those for the January games?

Irish94

Nani's wife has given birth to a baby boy. Congrats Nani.

Lord TSC

Your Airbag wrote: »

Spending 1 billion or very close to it since 08 and outlaying more in the first four years after Sheikh Mansours takeover than Fergie did in 25 years at UTD (inflation not accounted for) will help ease any transitional period.

I personally think the whole "Team in transition" excuse falls flat when you look at teams who are changing manager every second season yet still going from strength to strength, while Moyes inherits a team who walked the league last year and has them in free fall. If anything, I'd have thought a new manager and a few new players, no matter how expensive, would require a longer "transitional" period than United, who only added one player.

Cantona's Collars

MagicIRL wrote: »

City are scary. Lovely to watch, too. Their midfield is orgasmic.

Remember when we used to be like that,they had different players assisting each goal meanwhile not one of our midfielders has had an assist this season.

Kirby

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I personally think the whole "Team in transition" excuse falls flat when you look at teams who are changing manager every second season yet still going from strength to strength, while Moyes inherits a team who walked the league last year and has them in free fall. If anything, I'd have thought a new manager and a few new players, no matter how expensive, would require a longer "transitional" period than United, who only added one player.

As has been pointed out before, last year was a bit of an anomaly. Van Persie won a lot of points on his own in games in which United were poor coupled with the fact that Arsenal, City and Chelsea had poor seasons.

That's not going to happen every year where all your rivals have poor seasons. Atleast one of them should come good 95% of the time. So United certainly didn't walk the season....they were just the best of a bad lot. The problems in the squad didn't manifest over night.

Now, obviously Moyes is underperforming and personally I think he will and should get the sack at the end of the season when you miss out on top 4. This squad is still more than good enough for top 4 and he will have to take the blame for that. It's his fault.

But to suggest that any manager would have United walk the league this season is silly. As patchy as City and Chelsea have been this season, they still have a good points total and Arsenal and Liverpool are up there as well. I doubt any manager could have won the league for you this season. You need improvement in lots of areas.

beno619

Though there form is excellent in comparison to ours, man for man they are not too far ahead of us.

If we had a yaya (pogba) things would probably look a whole lot different.

Headshot

Headshot wrote: »

I had a good laugh with the Ramos part

Wouldnt want that nutter any where near my club unless he's on the opposite team because utd would be bound to score

lol

Lord TSC

Kirby wrote: »

But to suggest that any manager would have United walk the league this season is silly. As patchy as City and Chelsea have been this season, they still have a good points total and Arsenal and Liverpool are up there as well. I doubt any manager could have won the league for you this season. You need improvement in lots of areas.

I agree with pretty much all you said, except for the part where you suggest that the idea is Moyes should walk the league this season. I've constantly said my expectations this year were for a top 4 finish. I'm more than happy to lower expectations for Moyes in his first season in spite of last year, but as I've also said before, Moyes is even missing these drastically lowereed expectations, and by a fair distance as well...

Your Airbag

Kirby wrote: »

Van Persie won a lot of points on his own in games in which United were poor coupled with the fact that Arsenal, City and Chelsea had poor seasons.

27 points its been calculated as. Him and Carrick out have been big blows.

Moyes has a tough job on his hands, tougher than a lot of us first thought I feel. The club is in debt, we struggled to compete with the other big EPL and european clubs in the transfer market before he came. We have too many average players, some brought in by Fergie. Some of our best are getting long in the tooth and injury prone. Some decent players have become average and others look they'll never make the grade. Some very good players may want out.

This team obviously needs a major overhaul and it has done for sometime know, its plain to see we have way to many weaknesses. The "we walked the title" argument and Moyes is destroying a title winning squad is not a valid argument, it has some truth but amazing individual displays saved us from a terrible start last season.

Thats not to excuse Moyes, what he has tried with the squad has not worked and he should have done better, a little unlucky at times, the amount of late point dropping goals has been poor but he still needs a proper starting 11 and gameplan, he hasn't been able to get that from the squad before.

I said before the sqaud is at a real tipping point, it could literally go very badly if Moyes doesn't manage it well, off the pitch I'm talking about. He needs to ship out the averageness and get the quality committed and lure top talent here, something Fergie had trouble with in his later years. Moyes has inherited a few problems as well as a title winning squad.

Its a bigger task than most of us anticipated and Moyes will be made the scapegoat for many issues that have been allowed to grow at the club for years. The easy fix is to throw lots of cash at it. Moyes may not be allowed to do that.

Pro. F

Pen.Island wrote: »

I don't see how people on here seem to think they know more than medical teams of Manchester United.

Anybody with a basic knowledge of how fitness training works can see the issues. It's very basic stuff.

Moyes said that he over trained RvP in the summer. Moyes said that the plan had been to take RvP off after an hour against Newcastle, but he chose to keep him on because the team were chasing a goal. I think the same thing happened with Rooney early in the season iirc.

Nobody is saying that they know more than the medical team. If anything it is most likely that Moyes is ignoring the medical team's advice in these incidents.

Pen.Island wrote: »

RVP went 2 full seasons without injury

Vidic went from not being allowed play 2 games a week to playing in any game he's needed.

Nothing to be confused about. Van Persie had a very poor injury record up until two years ago. Over training that type of player and playing them for the full 90 minutes when they're just back from injury is not a good idea. Not a good idea for any player really, but an especially dumb choice for an injury prone player.

I have no idea what you are talking about with Vidic.

Thepoet85

Are we on tv tomorrow?

Nalz

Thepoet85 wrote: »

Are we on tv tomorrow?

Yup

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/broadcast-schedules.html

Skysports

Thepoet85

Trilla wrote: »

Yup

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/broadcast-schedules.html

Skysports

Nice one, cheers