LambPlus stars

Cran

I was at LambPlus meeting last week and sheep Ireland guys went through the new terminal & maternal star system. I'm a big believer in recording and used to always try and buy high LMI rams from previous system, and think the new star schemes a great idea. Even though I don't currently have cattle most farmers in Ireland do and understand the star system well.

Was wondering what people here would want from the stars, and what does everyone consider terminal or maternal traits? For me I think need to be careful and not overlook lambing ease, as an outdoor lamber it's core to my system both for terminal and maternal. Be interested in everyone's thoughts as will be involved later in the year discussing them with sheep Ireland.

tabby aspreme

To have reliable maternal trait measurements its up to the honesty of the breeder , if the ewe rejects the lambs or has difficulty lambing only the breeder will know, if she's a poor milker the lambs can be stuffed with creep and cabbage , at least with terminal traits when your buying the ram you can see the results in the ram, the length shape etc ,

razor8

Would love to see a system that prints the lamb’s actual daily weight gain as well as the existing production traits. Grass fed or concentrate fed would also be useful but that will never appear
Was going through records at the weekend and what struck me was how little difference there was in performance across breeds (have Charolais/Suffolk/Texel & Blue Leicester Rams) particularly in regard to daily weight gain. Had all ewes single sire mated last year. There was a big difference in kill out with the charolais which was an average 3.5% better but I sold most of my lambs live so I didn’t always get the benefit. Mules as expected were the worst for kill out but were easy to get into big weights so balanced out IMO
From Maternal traits i would see growth rate/prolificy and lamb survival as the key factors and a breed with known hybrid vigour and milkiness. Hybrid Vigour is definitely a problem in the Suffolk breeding these days i believe
From Terminal again would look at days to slaughter/production and lamb survival as key traits and judge on looks with length and width obviously important

I also believe fec samples should be part of the whole recording system and printed like the uk system

Cran

razor8 wrote: »

Would love to see a system that prints the lamb’s actual daily weight gain as well as the existing production traits. Grass fed or concentrate fed would also be useful but that will never appear
Was going through records at the weekend and what struck me was how little difference there was in performance across breeds (have Charolais/Suffolk/Texel & Blue Leicester Rams) particularly in regard to daily weight gain. Had all ewes single sire mated last year. There was a big difference in kill out with the charolais which was an average 3.5% better but I sold most of my lambs live so I didn’t always get the benefit. Mules as expected were the worst for kill out but were easy to get into big weights so balanced out IMO
From Maternal traits i would see growth rate/prolificy and lamb survival as the key factors and a breed with known hybrid vigour and milkiness. Hybrid Vigour is definitely a problem in the Suffolk breeding these days i believe
From Terminal again would look at days to slaughter/production and lamb survival as key traits and judge on looks with length and width obviously important

I also believe fec samples should be part of the whole recording system and printed like the uk system

The new terminal index looks good in that 75% is for days to salughter and lamb survival with the remainder mainly across conformation and fat. The maternal index is more balanced and has about 36% of the same traits as the terminal index which seems fair. As comparing my mules to what I want, its that 36% believe they need improvement. Only aspect of the maternal I'm struggling to understand is the Ewe mature weight not sure what impact this has is it to show growth rate?
One thing is you can't compare the indexs across breeds, it doesn't correlate hopefully some day they'll release a cross breed analysis. Any meeting I've ever been to though once cross breed comparison is mentioned there is always an arguement, mainly from one area tbh. .

I agree with Tabby on the honesty of breeders, do think they will be found out though overtime. Also I'd have a different approach buying maternal rams than terminal, prefer if they were from a larger and maybe harder home than some terminals come from as your breeding strategy needs more long term thought with them.

AnFeirmeoir

yes a rating for source flock health would be brilliant. ie. resistance to parasites, foot rot, etc.. Maybe this need genomics to take off first.

Not sure what you mean about suffolk and hybrid vigor Razor. Isn't Hybred vigor what you get when you cross 2 different breeds.? or is it possible within breeds? Are you saying that all suffolks are too closely related?

razor8

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

yes a rating for source flock health would be brilliant. ie. resistance to parasites, foot rot, etc.. Maybe this need genomics to take off first.

Not sure what you mean about suffolk and hybrid vigor Razor. Isn't Hybred vigor what you get when you cross 2 different breeds.? or is it possible within breeds? Are you saying that all suffolks are too closely related?

not nesscessarily, Some breeds have naturally more hybrid vigour. I find my suffolks can bit a bit dopey at birth, slower to there feet etc some just need more care/help at birth that i could do without, Charloais i have are looking for the teat before they are even out/quick to there feet

razor8

Cran wrote: »

The new terminal index looks good in that 75% is for days to salughter and lamb survival with the remainder mainly across conformation and fat. The maternal index is more balanced and has about 36% of the same traits as the terminal index which seems fair. As comparing my mules to what I want, its that 36% believe they need improvement. Only aspect of the maternal I'm struggling to understand is the Ewe mature weight not sure what impact this has is it to show growth rate?
One thing is you can't compare the indexs across breeds, it doesn't correlate hopefully some day they'll release a cross breed analysis. Any meeting I've ever been to though once cross breed comparison is mentioned there is always an arguement, mainly from one area tbh. .

I agree with Tabby on the honesty of breeders, do think they will be found out though overtime. Also I'd have a different approach buying maternal rams than terminal, prefer if they were from a larger and maybe harder home than some terminals come from as your breeding strategy needs more long term thought with them.

would of thought 36% was very low. what makes up the rest of the maternal traits?

cant see a comparison across breeds happening for a long time

Cran

razor8 wrote: »

would of thought 36% was very low. what makes up the rest of the maternal traits?

About another 30% same traits but Maternal side instead of terminal, so maternal days to slaughter, carcase, lamb survival etc. Then 14% number of lambs born and then 18% ewe mature weight

sea12

razor8 wrote: »

would of thought 36% was very low. what makes up the rest of the maternal traits?

cant see a comparison across breeds happening for a long time

Yea agree with u on that one. It would be great to have comparisons between breeds.

I would also like to see no of days to slaughter. Awg. Kill out percentage