New Welfare Bill To Allow Docking??

Gremlin

Very pleased with this result. Only to be carried out where scientific evidence shows it has a welfare benefit. Since there is no such evidence, that should be it. Policing this will be tough, thats where I think dog lovers can come in by reporting cases of tail docking. Reputable breeders will stop doing this immediately, I guess, since the dogs can't be shown. One thing worries me though. I hope we don't end up with a situation where breeders abandon (or worse) dogs with docked tails because they cant show them

Knine

Gremlin wrote: »

Very pleased with this result. Only to be carried out where scientific evidence shows it has a welfare benefit. Since there is no such evidence, that should be it. Policing this will be tough, thats where I think dog lovers can come in by reporting cases of tail docking. Reputable breeders will stop doing this immediately, I guess, since the dogs can't be shown. One thing worries me though. I hope we don't end up with a situation where breeders abandon (or worse) dogs with docked tails because they cant show them

It will probably be a showing ban for dogs docked after a certain date. Many show breeders are not docking anyhow so probably won't be a problem. I'm showing one of the customarily docked breeds. He has a full tail & he is top dog in his breed this year by quite a bit so judges are certainly not penalising him.

Rips

DBB wrote: »

Does it not say that though Rips? That it is to be a veterinary procedure only?
This is a great victory for the welfare of dogs, though there will have to enforcement of the legislation to make sure laypeople who dock tails are prosecuted.
Our new Welfare Act is by no means perfect, but it represents a huge improvement on what we had. This docking and dew claw issue was a major flaw which, thanks to a lot of pressure by groups and individuals, seems to have been ironed out... Once again, scientific evidence has saved the day!
Thank you Shark, for the update :-)

Depends on how the bill is worded - the statement just isn't as clear cut as it could be.


The most important thing should be for it to be classified as an act of veterinary surgery without any exclusions - then the policies are already in place, to prosecute anyone breaking the law. It makes sense. An irreversible safeguard for the future.

They seem to be leaving it open, that at some time in the future, a certain club or advocate for a breed of working dog are going to be able to make representations for docking.

If going forward, we have more undocked animals, then the incidence of tail injuries will rise ... for the simple fact that dogs with tails (regardless of their breed or use) do suffer tail injuries from time to time. It would just be nice to make sure that there is some foresight going into this legislation. That provisions will be made for humane and certified tail docking, should the need arise.

Interesting link to a study of tail injuries after a ban was introduced in Sweden...
http://www.cdb.org/countries/sweden.htm

There are already people on this thread, and in various other places online, saying 'yay - no more docking' based on a lack of evidence. Well, the evidence is out there, whether you agree with it or not, it has been brought to attention in other countries where the docking of working dogs remains legal.

Also, the docking of many breeds remains legal in Northern Ireland. At the moment, I know working collie owners who are literally travelling the length and breadth of the country to have CEA tests for their working registration .... don't think that advocates of docking, won't do the same.

DBB

Tail docking is legal in England and Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.
But the dog must be certified as intended to be a working individual of a breed traditionally bred for hunting, vermin control, or law enforcement. Vets, and only vets, are allowed to carry out the procedure.
When such pups are presented to a vet for docking, obviously the vet is bound to use anaesthesia and analgesia. The pups are then certified as being legally docked. The owner of a docked dog (of a certain age... Dogs docked prior to the legislation obviously have to be exempt) who cannot produce this certification can be prosecuted.
This is the road the Minister here in Ireland appears to be going down. I can never see a day when docking will be outright banned in Ireland: the hunting lobby is just too strong, and it's not been nailed down adequately whether or not hunting dogs suffer more tail injuries when undocked.
So, given that for now, there may still be an argument that hunting dogs should be docked on welfare grounds, it's surely a good, and acceptable compromise that if it's going to be done, that it's done properly, professionally, and with proper pain control?

Bizzum

DBB wrote: »

I can never see a day when docking will be outright banned in Ireland: the hunting lobby is just too strong, and it's not been nailed down adequately whether or not hunting dogs suffer more tail injuries when undocked.
So, given that for now, there may still be an argument that hunting dogs should be docked on welfare grounds, it's surely a good, and acceptable compromise that if it's going to be done, that it's done properly, professionally, and with proper pain control?

I hope it pans out like this. I'm in favour of docking in certain circumstances, but opposed to every Tom, Dick, and Harry doing it.
A properly regulated and policed protocol is what's needed.

Rips

As Bizzum says, hopefully it pans out like that. I can also agree that in some instances a true working dog, particularly some breeds, may be better off without its tail ... but all you have to do is look on Donedeal and see the amount of litters in NI being sold as pets, with docked tails - to see that the current system is not really working.

Barely a mention of whether they were legally docked or not. One litter, and a litter of Rottweilers at that!

There are certain breeds like the Rottweiler, who have no place being docked ... and it is proven to be detrimental in a number of ways. Similarly, any breed that is docked customarily short (as directed by fashion) has been proven to be detrimental to the dogs health. A lifelong health issue, not a one off injury. This can't continue to be acceptable, and now is that time for these issues to be raised.

Most of the working dogs I see are spaniels, and even docked they have a decent length of tail, meaning that any such problem can be avoided.

If you are going to make allowances for it, do it right, is all I'll say.

Bizzum

Rips wrote: »

.

Most of the working dogs I see are spaniels, and even docked they have a decent length of tail, meaning that any such problem can be avoided.

When I first had Spaniels over 20 years ago the general rule of thumb around me when docking was 'leave one third, take two thirds'.
In recent years I see it now appears to be 'leave two thirds, take one third'. Stemming from the field trials men wanting to see nice 'action' on their dogs!
So I suppose there is an element of 'fashion' at play here too!

Edit: When I think about it, it's near 30 years since I had my first Springer!