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Rent prices

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124

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    #92
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    .


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    #93
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    Stereomaniac wrote: »
    The fact that you are posting back to back is making it quite unpleasant to read here.

    Well when the majority of posts are directed at me, that's what happens.


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    #94
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Round and round we go.

    Yeah seems to happen when people ignore my posts clarifying. Do you at the very lease concede that you misunderstood my point? You just seem to have ignored the previous post explicitly stating in contradiction to what you claimed.


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    #95
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Your assumption is that there are none, or at least they are statistically insignificant, which is fair enough.

    My assumption is that there are some, but I'm not commenting on how many that there are.

    No, im not assuming that. Im saying that given the level of people who have responded to you here saying they pretty much cant believe what your saying is it not worth qualifying your statement in the "hardly even matters" level of significance?


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    #96
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    No, im not assuming that. Im saying that given the level of people who have responded to you here saying they pretty much cant believe what your saying is it not worth qualifying your statement in the "hardly even matters" level of significance?

    The comment was that it was hypocritical for people to want debt forgiveness and then charge at market rates. I never claimed it has a recognizable effect on market forces. It was an ethical rather than economical comment.

    As you can see above, I blanked that response as I realised I had misread. Its hard to keep up with so many people.


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    #97
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Can you provide specific evidence that they are not?

    Who said anything about the media, this started from a post here. Which seemed a perfectly reasonable logical deduction.

    There are people looking for debt forgiveness, there are people renting their negative equity homes are market rates, its completely reasonable to assume that there is an intersection here, no matter what size
    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Yeah seems to happen when people ignore my posts clarifying. Do you at the very lease concede that you misunderstood my point? You just seem to have ignored the previous post explicitly stating in contradiction to what you claimed.

    What exactly did I misunderstand? In post 46 you said that they were linked. I disagree.


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    #98
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    The comment was that it was hypocritical for people to want debt forgiveness and then charge at market rates. I never claimed it has a recognizable effect on market forces. It was an ethical rather than economical comment.

    As you can see above, I blanked that response as I realised I had misread. Its hard to keep up with so many people.

    Thats fair enough - it is unethical. But who are these people? Where are the people that are doing it. Are they forming a body to lobby the government on their behalf? What are they doing to make themselves worthy of an opinion that is worth consideration in this debate?


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    #99
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    What exactly did I misunderstand? In post 46 you said that they were linked. I disagree.

    WTF? I said its reasonable to assume people are doing both, I didn't say that just because you engage in one, automatically means you engage in both.


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    #100
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    WTF? I said its reasonable to assume people are doing both, I didn't say that just because you engage in one, automatically means you engage in both.

    Are you serious? I'm out of this discussion. You keep changing the point of your argument.


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    #101
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Are you serious? I'm out of this discussion. You keep changing the point of your argument.

    Not really, you just seem be applying a different meaning to the word "intersection" that is intended by the looks of things.

    Here is an example, I'm Irish and work in IT in London. That is an intersection.

    The link as you appear to be reading it is, I'm Irish and in London, therefore I must work in IT.


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    #102
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Not really, you just seem be applying a different meaning to the word "intersection" that is intended by the looks of things.

    Here is an example, I'm Irish and work in IT in London. That is an intersection.

    The link as you appear to be reading it is, I'm Irish and in London, therefore I must work in IT.

    Would have said The City but then again that would have been an assumption wouldn't it?


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    #103
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Would have said The City but then again that would have been an assumption wouldn't it?

    Since this thread has become a ridiculous exercise in assumption making, do you work in 33 Cannon Street, level three, seat Z22 by any chance?

    Meant for Chrome, by the way


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    #104
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    Since this thread has become a ridiculous exercise in assumption making, do you work in 33 Cannon Street, level three, seat Z22 by any chance?

    That is legal, not IT :D


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    #105
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Would have said The City but then again that would have been an assumption wouldn't it?

    If you were talking about a bigger group of people, it mightn't have been an unreasonable one.

    I admire your resolve of staying away from the thread for 8 minutes btw.


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    #106
    cali_eire
    Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭cali_eire


    Someone pass me the Xanax ... quick.


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    #107
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    I admire your resolve of staying away from the thread for 8 minutes btw.

    Reminds me of a similar thread a few weeks ago. Was a poster on there who said the same thing to another poster.


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    #108
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Reminds me of a similar thread a few weeks ago. Was a poster on there who said the same thing to another poster.

    Somebody said that to me - i think youre referring to the thread some lunatic created about how everybody in ScD was wrong about house prices and he was right, amongst a whole host of mad cap ideas about socialism


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    #109
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Reminds me of a similar thread a few weeks ago. Was a poster on there who said the same thing to another poster.

    I'd imagine such flounces are common here.


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    #110
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    Somebody said that to me - i think youre referring to the thread some lunatic created about how everybody in ScD was wrong about house prices and he was right, amongst a whole host of mad cap ideas about socialism

    The very one.


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    #111
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,322 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Things are broken at the moment. You can buy a two bed apt in the city center cheaper than you can rent a single bed apt.


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    #112
    St. Lupulin
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭St. Lupulin


    Scortho wrote: »
    Rents will only rise if the market allows, likewise it will fall if the market demands.

    I take it you weren't complaining when rents fell! :cool:

    This is the same dude constantly going on about social welfare costs and how evil the unemployed are....


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    #113
    Scortho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    St. Lupulin wrote: »
    This is the same dude constantly going on about social welfare costs and how evil the unemployed are....

    I'm confused as to how my stance on social welfare has anything to do with the fair setting of rents by market forces.

    Or would you rather rent supplement be abolished?

    For the record I support social welfare, just not to long term unemployed at the same rate as newly unemployed.
    Likewise someone who has never worked a day in their life shouldn't be receiving the same rate as a newly unemployed person.
    Can you link to a post where I said the unemployed are evil?


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    #114
    housetypeb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    This thread sure meanders a lot-but that's just my opinion,man.


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    #115
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Things are broken at the moment. You can buy a two bed apt in the city center cheaper than you can rent a single bed apt.
    Possibly, but it depends over how long the mortgage is, also factor in the annual management fee, home insurance and I'm assuming life assurance, plus the deposit and solicitor fee, maybe a surveyor, stamp duty etc... Also bear in mind the current low interest rates, at least the ECB rates, there is no way I can see the banks passing these onto even the variable rate mortgage holders...


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    #116
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    Scortho wrote: »

    For the record I support social welfare, just not to long term unemployed at the same rate as newly unemployed.
    Likewise someone who has never worked a day in their life shouldn't be receiving the same rate as a newly unemployed person.
    Can you link to a post where I said the unemployed are evil?

    Is a long term unemployed person's living costs going to be implicitly lower??


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    #117
    padma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭padma


    Rent prices are very interesting, I'll give an example of the investment from a very simple way of looking at it.

    Say I get a mortgage on an apartment for 100,000 on a 25 year loan. Most landlords expect the tenant to pay the mortgage fully for the apartment over the twenty five years and at the end the apartment could be worth with inflation say 250,000. Massive bonus if they intend to sell. Over the years the upkeep of the apartment is provided by rent.

    When rents fall as was the case over the past few years, not by much but they did fall, A landlord has to make up the shortfall to cover the mortgage. The main problem that seems to happen here is the landlord cries and moans because he now has to maintain his investment by keeping up his mortgage repayments.

    In 25 years he will still have a massive profit in his pocket once it is sold. In some ways what I am trying to say is if they bought the apartment and had to pay 25% monthly towards the mortgage from their own pocket for the 25 years, they are still going to make a substantial amount of money from the sale of said apartment.

    I don't get the whinging from Landlords who have someone paying their debt for them and at the end they will have a sizeable amount of cash for their retirement. I mean come on in all fairness landlords when the market is theirs are rubbing their hands with glee, when the market is not theirs they are up in arms about buying a new shower head for their tenant.


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    #118
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    padma wrote: »
    Rent prices are very interesting, I'll give an example of the investment from a very simple way of looking at it.

    Say I get a mortgage on an apartment for 100,000 on a 25 year loan. Most landlords expect the tenant to pay the mortgage fully for the apartment over the twenty five years and at the end the apartment could be worth with inflation say 250,000. Massive bonus if they intend to sell. Over the years the upkeep of the apartment is provided by rent.

    When rents fall as was the case over the past few years, not by much but they did fall, A landlord has to make up the shortfall to cover the mortgage. The main problem that seems to happen here is the landlord cries and moans because he now has to maintain his investment by keeping up his mortgage repayments.

    In 25 years he will still have a massive profit in his pocket once it is sold. In some ways what I am trying to say is if they bought the apartment and had to pay 25% monthly towards the mortgage from their own pocket for the 25 years, they are still going to make a substantial amount of money from the sale of said apartment.

    I don't get the whinging from Landlords who have someone paying their debt for them and at the end they will have a sizeable amount of cash for their retirement. I mean come on in all fairness landlords when the market is theirs are rubbing their hands with glee, when the market is not theirs they are up in arms about buying a new shower head for their tenant.

    Such is risk/reward. In business you risk something in life, you stand to benefit if it comes good for you. Conversely you could lose. Thats what makes an economy tick. People being rewarded for risking their cash to better themselves.

    Also, with that level of inflation everything else has increased in price in tandem, barring selling in the midst of a massive property bubble. Also, dont forget CGT at 30%. In your example the person would forfeit 45k to the government when the investment property sells. Not bad for the government for doing nothing.

    I think its more a case of landlords running it like a business, which it is, and trying to minimise costs in the shower head example you have explained


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    #119
    Scortho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Is a long term unemployed person's living costs going to be implicitly lower??

    Whether it is lower or not, it can't be afforded. Should a person who is long term unemployed, be given the same rate as someone who isn't?
    The fact that someone can be supported by the taxpayer for life is not sustainable. What happens if everyone was to decide that they wouldn't work?
    Id much prefer a german system of decreasing benefits after certain lengths of time unemployed.


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    #120
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    padma wrote: »
    In 25 years he will still have a massive profit in his pocket once it is sold. In some ways what I am trying to say is if they bought the apartment and had to pay 25% monthly towards the mortgage from their own pocket for the 25 years, they are still going to make a substantial amount of money from the sale of said apartment.

    There are risks and costs you are not thinking about. Maybe a year or two of no rent followed by a 25k repair cost? The reality that property is overvalued, so in 25 years it could be conceivably be worth less. More money could have been made by simply dropping that money into a low interest bank account.


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    #121
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    padma wrote: »
    Say I get a mortgage on an apartment for 100,000 on a 25 year loan. Most landlords expect the tenant to pay the mortgage fully for the apartment over the twenty five years and at the end the apartment could be worth with inflation say 250,000. Massive bonus if they intend to sell. Over the years the upkeep of the apartment is provided by rent.

    It could equally be worth just the same. Society is going through huge change, and who knows what the dynamics of the property market will be like in 25 years. Geez, we might have all got our properties confiscated to pay for pension shortfalls. Or Capital Gains Tax increased to 80%. And in the meantime the LL has burned management fees, repair costs, mortgage payment, insurance.....which would add up to more than he would have paid in rent in the same period.


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