Using the term Paki

endacl

wprathead wrote: »

it is idiotic and rather derogatory

Mint Aero wrote: »

Why?

Mint Aero wrote: »

Why?




I'll ask again for your benefit. I didn't ask anything about paki there.

Davelarson wrote: »

Yes why don't you explain to us why 'jap' is so evil and racist and we must never use it?

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

The feigned ignorance of boards racists always makes me laugh.

I think Sir Gallagher put it rather eloquently earlier in the thread...

Of course he's a 'Sir', and is therefore most likely a west brit or something.



http://www.hugoodoherty.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/No-to-Foreign-Games-RSF-style1.jpg

Mint Aero

wprathead wrote: »

apologies

Ah right ok, jeez all that stuff happened long before I was born. I just shorten words.

Mint Aero

endacl wrote: »

I think Sir Gallagher put it rather eloquently earlier in the thread...

Of course he's a 'Sir', and is therefore most likely a west brit or something.



http://www.hugoodoherty.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/No-to-Foreign-Games-RSF-style1.jpg

Brits are grand but them West Brits are a different story :pac:

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

I think the problem with that term is that many Travellers view it as slightly inaccurate due to the fact they rarely use the term about themselves. They call themselves "Pavee" or just "Travellers".

Words like "tinker" are antiquated and viewed as patronising. Words like "knacker", "gypo" and "Pikey" are downright pejorative.

It's roma that don't like it, not travellers

Davelarson

A lot of liberal white guilt in this thread. 'Jap' is about as offensive as 'Jerry' or 'Paddy'. If these words offend you then you seriously need to develop a thicker skin.

endacl

Davelarson wrote: »

A lot of liberal white guilt in this thread. 'Jap' is about as offensive as 'Jerry' or 'Paddy'. If these words offend you then you seriously need to develop a thicker skin.

They don't offend me personally in the slightest. I do understand how they could potentially cause upset to others though, so I don't use them.

You fire ahead though. You sound lovely.

:rolleyes:

wp_rathead

Davelarson wrote: »

A lot of liberal white guilt in this thread. 'Jap' is about as offensive as 'Jerry' or 'Paddy'. If these words offend you then you seriously need to develop a thicker skin.

g'man Dave- tell it as it is!!
:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

Grayditch

I do see a lot of "As a white person, I'll decide what terms aimed at non whites are offensive" going around these days. Any white people sticking up for his brother from another mother, or sister from another mister is clearly suffering the dreaded white guilt! :rolleyes:

wp_rathead

I used to think it was empathy, but apparently it's a dose of "White Guilt"

:eek:

endacl

wprathead wrote: »

I used to think it was empathy, but apparently it's a dose of "White Guilt"

:eek:

Silly wprathead.

Ah well. You live and learn, I suppose...

Davelarson

Nice circlejerk. Hate to break it to ya but some people have different opinions.

If jap is offensive then its pretty fukin mild especially compared to gook or chink.

Grayditch

I'd feel weird even typing them out.

endacl

Davelarson wrote: »

Nice circlejerk. Hate to break it to ya but some people have different opinions.

If jap is offensive then its pretty fukin mild especially compared to gook or chink.

Tell you what Dave. Why don't you pop off and type up a list of terms in ascending order of potential offensiveness. Do a separate list for each country and/or race that you can think of. Perhaps combine all of the results into a meta-list? When you're done, maybe start a thread where people can vote on the point where 'don't be so sensitive' crosses the line into 'that's a bit much'. Get back to us with the results in say, a month or so?

I probably still won't think much of your opinion, but it'd keep you out of trouble for a bit.

Davelarson

endacl wrote: »

Tell you what Dave. Why don't you pop off and type up a list of terms in ascending order of potential offensiveness. Do a separate list for each country and/or race that you can think of. Perhaps combine all of the results into a meta-list? When you're done, maybe start a thread where people can vote on the point where 'don't be so sensitive' crosses the line into 'that's a bit much'. Get back to us with the results in say, a month or so?

I probably still won't think much of your opinion, but it'd keep you out of trouble for a bit.

Can I include terms like cracker, white boy and honkey?

endacl

Davelarson wrote: »

Can I include terms like cracker, white boy and honkey?

You can of course. Off you go now.

Grayditch

I can't leave the house without being called one of those names. It's getting out of hand, now at this rate.

FTA69

poundapunnet wrote: »

What's wrong with asking a question? There are no stupid questions, just stupid condescending unproductive answers.

There are plenty of stupid questions, asking why "Paki" is racist and insinuating it's a harmless abbreviation is certainly up there in the ranks of stupid bloody questions.

"Paki" is a racist term because it has a long history in Britain of being used as a derogatory and belittling term to people from South Asia. In short, it's racist because it's been used for decades for that exact purpose and you can't divorce the word from that meaning.

I'm always wary of people who ask questions like the above, and I've a hard time believing that they don't know full well what it means.

Legs.Eleven

Stupid question.

FTA69

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Stupid question.

"PC Brigade" rabble rabble "why can they call themselves n*ggers but I can't" rabble rabble "double standards" rabble rabble.

cloudatlas

Strituck wrote: »

First off it is not my intention to be insulting, and I am not trying to offend but I have a genuine question. I am not trolling or trying to flame.

If mods feel that the question is out of order then please remove.

My question is why is the term Paki considered a racial slur. I always thought that it was simply a short way of saying Pakistani in the same way as if you are from these places you would be a ..

Dublin - Dub
Austrialian - Aussie
Britian - Brit
Scotland - Scot

I can understand that if it was said in the wrong tone ( eg You f****ng P**I) then it would sounds horrible but what if it was something like saying , "That P**i lad that works in the bank is sound ". Is that really racist ?

Can perhaps anybody from Pakistan explain ?

What about the term 'paddy'? I don't mind it but the words have been spat at me from English mouths. Context is everything and the negativity spawns from its misuse. Have you ever marvelled at the fact that the English have so many terms of abuse for other nations yet we don't have any terms of abuse for them i.e. 'Kraut' 'frog' 'paddy potato eater'. Maybe we have terms of abuse in the Irish language. I have many friends from Britain so I have no axe to grind by the way.

Realt Dearg Sec

cloudatlas wrote: »

What about the term 'paddy'? I don't mind it but the words have been spat at me from English mouths. Context is everything and the negativity spawns from its misuse. Have you ever marvelled at the fact that the English have so many terms of abuse for other nations yet we don't have any terms of abuse for them i.e. 'Kraut' 'frog' 'paddy potato eater'. Maybe we have terms of abuse in the Irish language. I have many friends from Britain so I have no axe to grind by the way.

No terms of abuse for the English? You've been hanging round those tan Huns too long...

(eh...probably should post an irony alert here to save on the infraction)

cloudatlas

'tan hun' too subtle they have to understand it.

Reekwind

FTA69 wrote: »

So now we need to explain why the term "Paki" is offensive? Jesus.

Indeed, After Hours has hit a new low...

...no wait, that would be the point where people argue that 'Paki' is actually no more racist than 'Paddy' and that it's just double standards at play. White people are the real victims here

Realt Dearg Sec

cloudatlas wrote: »

'tan hun' too subtle they have to understand it.

Ah, touche!

I suppose it's because racial slurs ate based on singling people out for abuse based on a norm. The English spent so long at the centre of world affairs and culture that they essentially are that norm, from which others are judged according to their distance from it.

The dirty tans!

(is just saying "irony" enough to mitigate the offence? It's a question worth debating)

cloudatlas

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Ah, touche!

I suppose it's because racial slurs ate based on singling people out for abuse based on a norm. The English spent so long at the centre of world affairs and culture that they essentially are that norm, from which others are judged according to their distance from it.

The dirty tans!

(is just saying "irony" enough to mitigate the offence? It's a question worth debating)

Okay I'll start saying it and hope it catches on and that nobody takes it as an invitation to the tanning salon up the road, 'tan hun?' 'Well now that you mention it I am looking a quite pale, thanks so much'.

Reekwind

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I suppose it's because racial slurs ate based on singling people out for abuse based on a norm. The English spent so long at the centre of world affairs and culture that they essentially are that norm, from which others are judged according to their distance from it

At the risk of making a serious point, there is some truth in this. It's not quite about norms through

These words acquire context based on history. Take a perfectly serviceable word, use it for decades/centuries to convey racial inferiority/discrimination and, hey presto, it becomes a term of racial abuse. One that (and this is for the audience) people should avoid using

The issue is that for most of the past few centuries it has been white people - particularly European imperialists and Americans - who have been in the position of power. There are very few counterparts that carry the same weight as ****** or gook simply because there is no opposite equivalent of the racist context in which the terms emerged. Black people have never invaded Europe and run a brutal colonial empire there, the Met Police has never been run exclusively by Asians and institutionally racist against white people, black people have never 'whited up' on national television to roll out deeply offensive racial caricatures. And so on

Hence you'll struggle to find any really offensive racial term that white English people will be offended by. Historically, as a country, they just haven't been the victims of that much real racism. Certainly not in the same way that Africans or Asians have

Davelarson

Reekwind wrote: »

Indeed, After Hours has hit a new low...

...no wait, that would be the point where people argue that 'Paki' is actually no more racist than 'Paddy' and that it's just double standards at play. White people are the real victims here

No one is saying white people are the victims here idiot. It's just that some of us feel we can have a discussion on race and racist terms without hysterical 'you're white you don't get to have an opinion!!!' overreactions.

I believe white people can victims of racism too, but no doubt most on here will disagree with that.

Caliden

Was watching Gogglebox on channel 4 last night (great show by the way) and there was a group of Pakistani fellas and one of them told a joke with 'paki' in it.

Funny joke but is paki another one of these words where it's only ok if said by the group in question?

Or is it another case of white people telling other white people that the word in question is offensive to a specific group to which they have no relation to?

Xeyn

Davelarson wrote: »

No one is saying white people are the victims here idiot. It's just that some of us feel we can have a discussion on race and racist terms without hysterical 'you're white you don't get to have an opinion!!!' overreactions.

I believe white people can victims of racism too, but no doubt most on here will disagree with that.

But the bottom line is that if you are white you DONT get to have a say on what is acceptable to call someone of another race. You can argue it till you're blue in the face but that's just it.

Davelarson

Xeyn wrote: »

But the bottom line is that if you are white you DONT get to have a say on what is acceptable to call someone of another race. You can argue it till you're blue in the face but that's just it.

It is possible to have a mature, nuanced debate on race relations without people like you coming along and crying 'YOU'RE WHITE SHUT UP!!!'.

Grayditch

Those blue faces are the worst.

Xeyn

Davelarson wrote: »

It is possible to have a mature, nuanced debate on race relations without people like you coming along and crying 'YOU'RE WHITE SHUT UP!!!'.

You're obviously quite aggrieved at not having the right to decide if other people should be insulted by what you call them. Then you try to claim the moral high ground by ridiculous paraphrasing to suit your agenda.

Davelarson

Grayditch wrote: »

Those blue faces are the worst.

Not as bad as the black and brown faces!!

Onlyjokingpleasedontbanme...

old hippy

Davelarson wrote: »

A lot of liberal white guilt in this thread. 'Jap' is about as offensive as 'Jerry' or 'Paddy'. If these words offend you then you seriously need to develop a thicker skin.

Ah yes, that old chestnut. I've pointed out gosh knows how many times that this is offensive and yet some people just can't comprehend that.

The word offends me, it offends my wife, my family and friends. Japanese or otherwise.

Please refrain from using it.

old hippy

Davelarson wrote: »

Not as bad as the black and brown faces!!

Onlyjokingpleasedontbanme...

Because you've been banned before, perchance? That's what usually happens to persistent racists.

Davelarson

old hippy wrote: »

Because you've been banned before, perchance? That's what usually happens to persistent racists.

I'm not a racist and I haven't been banned before.

FTA69

Davelarson wrote: »

It is possible to have a mature, nuanced debate on race relations without people like you coming along and crying 'YOU'RE WHITE SHUT UP!!!'.

Of course it is. Anyone is entitled to discuss racism, the terminology around it etc.

The problem arises when someone feels they should be allowed use racially abusive language for whatever reason when the fact is that there will never be an appropriate context in which to use it.

old hippy

Davelarson wrote: »

I'm not a racist and I haven't been banned before.

And yet you felt the need to use that slur on the Japanese throughout your posts?

COYVB

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Same thing as calling someone a Jew.

It's absolutely nothing like calling someone a Jew...

Davelarson

old hippy wrote: »

And yet you felt the need to use that slur on the Japanese throughout your posts?

I said 'jap' seems a fairly harmless term along the same lines as 'jerry' 'tommy' 'paddy' or 'yank' etc.

Did I say 'I fucking hate gooks'? No. If you think I'm a racist fine, I won't lose any sleep over it.

By the way, should we mention Japan has one of the most racist societies on earth, so bad the UN expressed concern? I wonder how many times you've been called a smelly white bastard behind your back?

old hippy

Davelarson wrote: »

I said 'jap' seems a fairly harmless term along the same lines as 'jerry' 'tommy' 'paddy' or 'yank' etc.

Did I say 'I fucking hate gooks'? No. If you think I'm a racist fine, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

By the way, should we mention Japan has one of the most racist societies on earth, so bad the UN expressed concern? I wonder how many times you've been called a smelly white bastard behind your back?

It's not harmless, it's a racial slur which has already been pointed out to you but typical casual racism means you can't help but argue in favour of it.

My wife's uncle called me names the very first time I visited. The family doesn't see him anymore. Yes, Japan has racist elements there - I wouldn't deny it. What's that got to do with you feeling the need to use that word?

Davelarson

Reekwind wrote: »

At the risk of making a serious point, there is some truth in this. It's not quite about norms through

These words acquire context based on history. Take a perfectly serviceable word, use it for decades/centuries to convey racial inferiority/discrimination and, hey presto, it becomes a term of racial abuse. One that (and this is for the audience) people should avoid using

The issue is that for most of the past few centuries it has been white people - particularly European imperialists and Americans - who have been in the position of power. There are very few counterparts that carry the same weight as ****** or gook simply because there is no opposite equivalent of the racist context in which the terms emerged. Black people have never invaded Europe and run a brutal colonial empire there, the Met Police has never been run exclusively by Asians and institutionally racist against white people, black people have never 'whited up' on national television to roll out deeply offensive racial caricatures. And so on

Hence you'll struggle to find any really offensive racial term that white English people will be offended by. Historically, as a country, they just haven't been the victims of that much real racism. Certainly not in the same way that Africans or Asians have

By that logic the Japanese can't be victims of racism since they had a major empire and subjugated, murdered and tortured thousands of people.

MonstaMash

Davelarson wrote: »

I wonder how many times you've been called a smelly white bastard behind your back?

Gaijin actually

old hippy

Davelarson wrote: »

By that logic the Japanese can't be victims of racism since they had a major empire and subjugated, murdered and tortured thousands of people.

I don't know of many nations that haven't committed hideous attrocities. But the people were to an extent brainwashed. Prior to the Okinawa landings, the islanders were told that US troops would rape and murder them. Suicide pilots were indoctrinated into the belief that what they were doing was for the glory of the nation. Some of these kids wew 17 years old and many of them actually voiced their concerns. If you ever visit the Peace Museum in Kagoshima - some of those letters are heartbreaking.

Tony EH

When using a shortened name or moniker for a group of people, you should try and be aware of what you're using and how it's been used in the past.

"Paki" has the history of a racial slur and as such, I would never use it.

However, I have never met a Japanese person who had a problem with "Jap". In fact, when I was in Japan, it was a topic of conversation that came up numerous times and the consensus was always the same. It didn't really bother them.

Americans, on the other hand, can get somewhat upset when the term is used. Japanese Americans can have a problem with it too.

I have also used "Paddy" and "Mick" etc, to describe Irish people and I don't get upset when I hear it being used either.

Likewise, I have yet to meet someone from Britain getting upset over the use of the word "Brit".

However, context is everything.

In short, even if you have no mallace intended, you should err on the side of caution and try to understand why a given person may be offended by your use of certain terms.

chopper6

Before embarking on a verbal course of action that may or may not offend people consider this: Will it get you your head kicked in?

If not then coola boola

Stainless_Steel

How do words offend people? I can honestly say that I have never once felt offended in my life. What does it feel like?

old hippy

Tony EH wrote: »

However, I have never met a Japanese person who had a problem with "Jap". In fact, when I was in Japan, it was a topic of conversation that came up numerous times and the consensus was always the same. It didn't really bother them.

Americans, on the other hand, can get somewhat upset when the term is used. Japanese Americans can have a problem with it too.

That's your experience, Tony. You've said as much before. My experience is a different one to yours. You are correct about Americans of Japanese descent having "a problem" with it. I recommend "Being Japanese American" by Gil Asakawa. It gives a history to the slur, amongst other things.

Tony EH

RoboRat wrote: »

If you called a German a Kraut they would punch you...

endacl wrote: »

Of course they would. As would I if I was referred to as a cabáiste...

RoboRat wrote: »

Its more about the association of that name with Nazi soldiers during WWII actually

If you called a German veteran of the war a "nazi soldier" there's a very good chance you'd get a punch too.

As for "Kraut", I haven't met too many Germans that would get their knickers in a twist about it. In fact they had a musical genre called Krautrock a number of years ago.

old hippy

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

How do words offend people? I can honestly say that I have never once felt offended in my life. What does it feel like?

Well, it's like this. You're with your gf, let's say, and someone shouts "go back to Africa you filthy monkey*". Your heart starts to race, you feel like you've been kicked, your gf either tries to ignore it - or maybe it's happened one time too many and she bursts into tears. It's a horrible, horrible feeling and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Except maybe to those that think it's all a fuss over nothing.



*or the "n" word