"Man Up" campaign by SafeIreland

Wibbs

Or and ad campaign saying "women, protect yourself from rape". There would be a reaction, bordering on full on outcry.

ancapailldorcha

Wibbs wrote: »

Or and ad campaign saying "women, protect yourself from rape". There would be a reaction, bordering on full on outcry.

Only from those who don't have adblocker.

Scannal

In fairness it's mostly men who inflict violence on others and not even close when it comes to rape. What can be done to stop it? I'm not sure but we can object to sexist comments or disgusting remarks made about women. Make it so it's not ok to think this way.

DoYouEvenLift

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Only from those who don't have adblocker.

Aware me on how to use adblock on mobile?

Scannal wrote: »

In fairness it's mostly men who inflict violence on others and not even close when it comes to rape. What can be done to stop it? I'm not sure but we can object to sexist comments or disgusting remarks made about women. Make it so it's not ok to think this way.

Lmao, good trolling!

tritium

Scannal wrote: »

In fairness it's mostly men who inflict violence on others and not even close when it comes to rape. What can be done to stop it? I'm not sure but we can object to sexist comments or disgusting remarks made about women. Make it so it's not ok to think this way.

There's a interesting video somewhere describing how the CDC manipulated the figures for one of the note famous rape incidence studies. They took all cases where women had forced men to have sex and reclassified them from rape to 'forced to penetrate' (because everyone knows what that is right). Interestingly I recall the figures were stated as being somewhat similar for the two events. Even more interestingly the CDC managed to omit all commentary on the failure to penetrate incidence from the report....

Edit: here's an article by Cathy Young on a more recent survey


http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/

Seriously?

tritium wrote: »

There's a interesting video somewhere describing how the CDC manipulated the figures for one of the note famous rape incidence studies.

There's a great video of Sage Gerard debating Brian Clyne that hits upon the issue of feminist lies. It’s a great example of facts resoundingly being used to defeat the usual feminist lies and emotional manipulation.

DoYouEvenLift

Seriously? wrote: »

There's a great video of Sage Gerard debating Brian Clyne that hits upon the issue of feminist lies. It’s a great example of facts resoundingly being used to defeat the usual feminist lies and emotional manipulation.

Stopped watched when Clyne opened with a statement about gender wage gap and made it personal against Sage with backhanded insults. Sage's a great speaker, though. Enjoyed listening to him, just a pity he has to entertain idiots like Clyne in a debate like that.

Seriously?

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Stopped watched when Clyne opened with a statement about gender wage gap. Sage's a great speaker, though. Enjoyed listening to him, just a pity he has to entertain idiots like Clyne in a debate like that.

It really only goes downhill from there as far as the feminist defence goes.

DoYouEvenLift

Seriously? wrote: »

It really only goes downhill from there as far as the feminist defence goes.

I've seen it before but this quote Sage showed on screen is unreal. Do real feminists actually read this sh!t and think, "yup. I agree with this completely"? Let's just bring back Hitler and convince him to forget about the Jews and instead turn his targets on men.

“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart

mariaalice

I am a feminist and I don't agree with the man up campaign for the simple reason I don't think it works, it does stigmatise men.

On the other hand.

I was following a thread on the work and jobs forum and someone ( I presume ) a male said be a toolmaker or a welder and also said they are nice masculine profession lots of blue jokes. That's depressing nowadays

ancapailldorcha

mariaalice wrote: »

I was following a thread on the work and jobs forum and someone ( I presume ) a male said be a toolmaker or a welder and also said they are nice masculine profession lots of blue jokes. That's depressing nowadays

I work in a mainly female building and one of the PIs made a big show of the fact that her postdoc was heading into the lab to rip the testes off male fruit flies.

mariaalice

I think you are missing my point, I am sure there are off colure jokes told in lots of situations and there should be a culture of that not being acceptable.

Its the association of certain professions as being nice and masculine and by extension the association of masculine professions with a tolerance for blue jokes.

Seriously?

mariaalice wrote: »

Its the association of certain professions as being nice and masculine and by extension the association of masculine professions with a tolerance for blue jokes.

Having worked in an office with a large percentage of women its my experience that blue jokes aren't restricted to masculine professions nor is the target exclusively of said jokes/comments exclusively female.

So I'm not sure your inference that its an issue only effecting women holds water.

mariaalice

Seriously? wrote: »

Having worked in an office with a large percentage of women its my experience that blue jokes aren't restricted to masculine professions nor is the target exclusively of said jokes/comments exclusively female.

So I'm not sure your inference that its an issue only effecting women holds water.

Both men and women are the subject of off colour joke and they are told by both genders.

My point is the posters ( and it is only one poster ) belief that one of the attributes of a masculine profession = a greater tolerance for blue jokes.

tritium

mariaalice wrote: »

Both men and women are the subject of off colour joke and they are told by both genders.

My point is the posters ( and it is only one poster ) belief that one of the attributes of a masculine profession = a greater tolerance for blue jokes.

Having worked in a female dominated environment in the past I'd suggest that the issue is more one once the make to female ratio gets too skewed in either direction there's a tendency to ignore the concerns of the other gender and this can contribute to lad/ladette cultures developing where sexismnis accepted because no one calls out how offensive it is. I think that may also play a part in why men are so badly portrayed in some media- there's been an historic expectation that men will just take it so it goes unchallenged.

iptba

This guy has a relaxed style I found easy to watch.

Published on Nov 6, 2014


The title is intentionally provocative and meant to poke fun at the ways that research is being used to implicate men as the primary problem of domestic violence. Then again, the title is not that far from the truth. This video will have a look at the underbelly of one research study on domestic violence that created a good deal of headlines. Those headlines? They read over and over again that 1 in 5 men admitted to being violent in relationship. The video will take a look at how they got those numbers and also offer a glimpse of the story that they DIDN'T tell you. That story is that the data used for this study showed clearly that the women admitted to considerably more violence than the men. Have a look.

If you want a more detailed version you can see the article on menaregood that goes into a great deal more detail: http://menaregood.com/wordpress/the-one-sided-narrative-of-domestic-violence/

iptba

I see Sweden is to get the Man Up campaign:

Elsewhere, MAN UP, an Irish-created campaign to highlight the positive role that men can play in ending violence against women, has been adapted, translated and is being launched in Sweden today.

The Swedish roll-out is the first country "syndication" of MAN UP, which was launched by SAFE Ireland last month.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1125/662316-white-ribbon-day/

iptba

(UK)

Husbands Who Yell at Their Wives Face up to 14 Years in Prison Under New Law
http://www.orrazz.com/2014/11/husbands-who-yell-at-their-wives-face.html

Here's a more mainstream piece:

New domestic violence law will outlaw coercive control
Theresa May expected to unveil plans to put psychological and emotional abuse on a par with domestic violence
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11244275/New-domestic-violence-law-will-outlaw-coercive-control.html

Both only talk about male perpetrators.

tritium

iptba wrote: »

(UK)


Here's a more mainstream piece:


Both only talk about male perpetrators.

Interestingly, as I understand it the law will apply to both men and women. Based in that old stereotype of the nagging wife it will be interesting to see how its enforced. a phrase about being careful what you wish for springs to mind.....

Jose Mourinho GOAT

In my opinion emotional and psychological abuse is perpetrated more commonly by women in relationships yet the focus seems to be only on male on female abuse.

iptba

I'm just reading about how there is bias in a domestic violence law in Spain

A further point of critique of the law against gender-related violence is the different penalties for men and women for the same crime – 'positive discrimination' as it is officially known. 'It has nothing to do with how consistent the law is,' claims lawyer Martínez. 'If a man mistreats a woman, he would receive a harsher punishment than if it were the other way round.

http://www.cafebabel.co.uk/society/article/spain-gender-violence-what-about-abused-men.html

iptba

Letters in Irish Times this week:

White Ribbon campaign poster

Sir, – I note with alarm the White Ribbon campaign poster in Dublin containing the statement “helping end men’s violence against women”.

As written, it’s a ghastly unqualified indictment and collective libel.

I’ve been mistreated by some women in my life, yet I don’t apportion blame to the entire gender for the actions of a few. An anti-male blanket condemnation approach that assumes guilt, based on gender alone, is both ludicrous and offensive in equal measure.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/white-ribbon-campaign-poster-1.2021627

Sir, – Nigel Ryan is alarmed by the campaign poster for the White Ribbon campaign, a male led organisation whose aim is to try to end men’s violence against women (Letters, December 2nd).

Mr Ryan finds the statement “helping end men’s violence against women” to be “a ghastly unqualified indictment and collective libel”. Perhaps his disgust would be better directed towards the statistics and facts around male violence against women. Just last week, Women’s Aid held a demonstration outside the Dáil in remembrance of the 78 women, who along with 10 children, have been murdered by their partners in Ireland since 1996.

Women’s Aid estimate that one in five women in Ireland have been affected by domestic violence at some point in their lives.

While any kind of violence, sexual or otherwise, is inexcusable, whether perpetrated by a man or a woman, the facts are that statistically, women are far more likely to suffer violence and abuse at the hands of a man.

This is what the White Ribbon campaign is trying to end.

As a woman, I would be more than happy to lend my support to any campaigns to stop gender-based violence against men.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/white-ribbon-campaign-poster-1.2021627

tritium

iptba wrote: »

Letters in Irish Times this week:

Yeah, pretty poor response tbh. I'd urge folks to respond to letters like that- not because violence against women isn't an issue, it clearly is and needs funding and support. But the misconception that men are far less likely to be victims is dangerous and leads to these victims being denied access to resources that could help them.

iptba

I'm very glad most public health campaigns aren't run the way domestic violence abuse campaigns are: highlight the highest risk group and pretty much ignore everyone else (even give the impression what happens to others isn't important).

Ditto for facilities made available to patients from particular groups.

PucaMama

Domestic violence - an issue of gender
1 in 7 women in Ireland compared to 1 in 17 men experience severe domestic violence. Women are over twice as likely as men to have experienced severe physical abuse, seven times more likely to have experienced sexual abuse, and are more likely to experience serious injuries than men. (National Crime Council and ESRI, Domestic Abuse of Women and Men in Ireland, 2005)
90% of the more systematic, persistent and injurious violence that is instrumental in the maintenance of power, is perpetrated by men. (Male Victims of Domestic Violence: A Substantive and Methodology Research Review, Michael S. Kimmel, 2001)
A major study of police reports and crime surveys in the UK, USA and Canada found that between 90 and 97% of perpetrators of violence in intimate relationships are men. (Dobash and Dobash, Women, Violence and Social Change, 1992)
In the five years ending in March 2010, more than 312,100 defendants were prosecuted for domestic violence in the UK. 93% of defendants were men and 85% of victims were women. [Violence against Women Crime Report 2009-2010, UK Crown Prosecution Service]

http://www.womensaid.ie/policy/natintstats.html#X-201209171229530

PucaMama

Domestic violence and the legal system
Applications to the District Court under the domestic violence legislation increased by 5% to 13,275 from 12,655 in 2012. There was a 6% increase in applications for safety orders (5,334 as compared to 5,026 in 2012) and an 8% increase in applications for protection orders (4,529 as compared to 4,192 in 2012). Applications for interim barring orders showed a slight increase (674 as compared to 648 in 2012) while applications for barring orders showed a slight decrease from 2,789 to 2,738. [Court Services Annual Report 2013]
The Garda Recorded Crime Statistics Report for 2010 states that there were 1,184 incidents of Breaching Domestic Violence Orders Offences in that year alone. (Central Statistics Office, Garda Recorded Crime Statistics 2006-2010)
In 2005, the Gardaí recorded 5,459 incidents of domestic abuse. (An Garda Síochána Annual Report, 2005)
90% of domestic abuse offenders in 2003 were male, whilst 93% of complainants were female. Of the 1,418 arrests made in relation to domestic abuse, 1,203 were charged and 650 were convicted. (An Garda Siochana Annual Report, 2003).
On average a woman will be assaulted by her partner or ex-partner 35 times before reporting it to the police. (Yearnshire, S. 'Analysis of cohort', IN Bewley S, Friend J and Mezey G (Eds.) Violence Against Women. London. RCOG, 1997)
Only 29% of women who had experienced severe abuse had reported it to An Garda Síochána. [National Crime Council and ESRI, Domestic Abuse of Women and Men in Ireland, 2005]
National research carried out in 1999 found that between 1% and 6% of domestic violence offenders in Ireland receive a prison sentence. [Kelleher & O'Connor, Safety and Sanctions, Women's Aid, 1999]

anyone reading this can see why violence against women needs more attention

iptba

PucaMama wrote: »

A major study of police reports and crime surveys in the UK, USA and Canada found that between 90 and 97% of perpetrators of violence in intimate relationships are men. (Dobash and Dobash, Women, Violence and Social Change, 1992)
In the five years ending in March 2010, more than 312,100 defendants were prosecuted for domestic violence in the UK. 93% of defendants were men and 85% of victims were women. [Violence against Women Crime Report 2009-2010, UK Crown Prosecution Service]
http://www.womensaid.ie/policy/natintstats.html#X-201209171229530

Crime surveys and the like are not necessarily an accurate reflection of what happens due to men being less likely to report and that it seems that their complaints are less likely to be taken seriously.

tritium

PucaMama wrote: »

anyone reading this can see why violence against women needs more attention

Why exactly? Interestingly one of the sources quoted is National Crime Council and ESRI, Domestic Abuse of Women and Men in Ireland, 2005] - this is probably the first large study in Ireland that highlighted the near symmetry in victim rates between the genders.

DoYouEvenLift

I know to prove domestic violence against men happens they need to compare statistics with domestic violence against women, because some ignorant people will laugh and joke about the violence against men and claim it doesn't happen, but I really wish they could just disregard genders and target the issue collectively and try to deal with domestic violence across the board for men on women, women on men, women on women and men on men. I can't understand how hard it seems to be for them to just realise that mainly trying to deal with what may be the majority occurrence doesn't justify the lack of effort to deal with the others.

py2006

1 in 7 women in Ireland compared to 1 in 17 men experience severe domestic violence.

I am not saying the above isn't true but I do find it hard to believe. It would be interesting to see where they go for the stats when it comes to men because it is quite clear from this thread and other forums and from life experience that:

1. Men don't/won't/can't talk about it
2. Men are afraid of ridicule
3. There aren't the same avenues as afforded to women
4. The usual, 'sure you are stronger than her'

For that reason, I believe the stats are inaccurate when it comes to men. I'd say the figures are far, far closer.

People often refuse to believe that women are capable of being abusive possibly because the stereotype portrayed in the media/news/feminist social media outlets is that abuse something that men do to women.

Its a social issue not a specific gender issue and a lot of people need to learn that.