"Man Up" campaign by SafeIreland

Pawwed Rig

I don't know what domestic violence is anymore. By some measures we have all been victims of it as disagreements are seen as domestic violence in some quarters.

py2006

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I don't know what domestic violence is anymore. By some measures we have all been victims of it as disagreements are seen as domestic violence in some quarters.

Do you mean Domestic Abuse? Which is the very broad umbrella term.

iptba

(5 December article)

Male domestic abuse victim: men are scared to come forward

By Nomia Iqbal
Newsbeat reporter

A man, whose ex-girlfriend left him with life threatening injuries, has spoken for the first time about the domestic violence he suffered.

Mark Kirkpatrick was found on a street in Lancashire seven months ago after his former partner Gemma Hollings attacked him with a pole, hammer and a glass bottle.

Continues at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/30303405

ancapailldorcha

Banned User wrote:

Guff

This coming from the guy who describes rape as "something men do"...

Why is it ok to tar a whole population with the same brush. Imagine starting a campaign called "Islam up - don't blow up buildings". You wouldn't because only a tiny population of Muslims believe in that sort of action and is therefore inappropriate.

ancapailldorcha

Banned User wrote:

Guff

It's an ad campaign targeted at men therefore it is. I don't care if you are offended by it or not. The point is that it's using the actions of a small minority to demonise men as a whole by insinuating that domestic abuse is an act all men have an urge to perpetrate.

ancapailldorcha

Banned User wrote:

post deleted

No, it's not. It's aimed at men as a whole as if we're some sort of homogeneous population, an absurd notion disproved by this very discussion.

Anyway, why isn't there a counter "woman up" campaign given that about 40% of domestic violence incidents are perpetrated by women. It's sexism plain and simple, sexism that you're happy to perpetuate with your moronic comments.

Pawwed Rig

Mod note - OK dial back the personal comments and don't feed the trolls

tritium

Man up aways struck me as a certain type of hypocrisy. No one is disputing that there are violent men (or indeed women) but the idea of tarring all of a group by the actions of a narrow subset seems frankly little more than stirring it. Other groups are at pains to rightly remind you they're not a hive mind and you can't generalise to the whole the actions of the few, yet somehow man up is the acceptable exception. Seriously, did no one at the point of drawing up this campaign stop to think they might be in danger of alienating a fairly large block of support that might just be important to helping to stop domestic violence.

Piliger

Man Up is all about labelling Men as Abusers, and Women as Victims.

They ignore that 45% of domestic abuse is by women on men.

They ignore the wide body of research that show clearly that they are wrong, sexist and misandrous.

This came this year:

Women are more likely to be verbally and physically aggressive towards their partners than men suggests a new study presented as part of a symposium on intimate partner violence (IPV).

Analysis showed that women were more likely to be physically aggressive to their partners than men and that men were more likely to be physically aggressive to their same-sex others.

Mokuba

tritium wrote: »

Man up aways struck me as a certain type of hypocrisy. No one is disputing that there are violent men (or indeed women) but the idea of tarring all of a group by the actions of a narrow subset seems frankly little more than stirring it. Other groups are at pains to rightly remind you they're not a hive mind and you can't generalise to the whole the actions of the few, yet somehow man up is the acceptable exception. Seriously, did no one at the point of drawing up this campaign stop to think they might be in danger of alienating a fairly large block of support that might just be important to helping to stop domestic violence.

In an era where gender stereotypes are the cause of such furor - especially as women attempt to gain better rights, it never ceases to amaze me that men are allowed to be demonized as they are on a regular basis.

Just a symptom of a bigger problem where society ignores mens issues and aggressively over compensates with womens issues. There should be an equal movement for both. "Man Up" is just as insulting as "get back into the kitchen where you belong" - can you imagine if a nationwide campaign was using that as its slogan? The regular playful "size" puns that you see in mainstream media - imagine if those were used in relation to breast size.

Men have serious problems that often go ignored. Suicide is the leading cause of death for men aged between 15-24. Bressie's speech is genuinely the very first time that men's issues have gotten any publicity recently - and even that was a more generalised issue talked about by a man.

Lemming

No matter how many times I hear/see it, the use of "man up" for a campaign amuses me. These people have no clue as to what the expression actually means in its original context :pac::D

iptba

Mokuba wrote: »

In an era where gender stereotypes are the cause of such furor - especially as women attempt to gain better rights, it never ceases to amaze me that men are allowed to be demonized as they are on a regular basis.

Just a symptom of a bigger problem where society ignores mens issues and aggressively over compensates with womens issues. There should be an equal movement for both. "Man Up" is just as insulting as "get back into the kitchen where you belong" - can you imagine if a nationwide campaign was using that as its slogan? The regular playful "size" puns that you see in mainstream media - imagine if those were used in relation to breast size.

Men have serious problems that often go ignored. Suicide is the leading cause of death for men aged between 15-24. Bressie's speech is genuinely the very first time that men's issues have gotten any publicity recently - and even that was a more generalised issue talked about by a man.

I don't follow popular culture much - anyone have a link/similar to what Bressie said.

Pat Mustard

The 'Man Up' campaign is being funded by the taxpayer. Cosc has provided €100,000 for it.

About Cosc
Cosc is the National Office for the Prevention of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence. Cosc is an Irish word and means "to stop" or "to prevent". Following a Government Decision, Cosc was established in June 2007 with the key responsibility to ensure the delivery of a well co-ordinated "whole of Government" response to domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. The work of Cosc covers issues relating to domestic and sexual violence against women and men, including older people in the community.

The office is an executive office of the Department of Justice and Equality. It is situated within the Department, but has been given a remit to address domestic, sexual and gender-based violence from a cross-government perspective rather than solely from that of the justice sector. Cosc’s role covers co-ordination across the justice, health, housing, education, family support and community sectors. This work includes close interaction with non-governmental organisations (NGOs).

Considering the austerity measures to which the taxpayer has been subjected, it is disappointing to note that taxpayers' money is still being wasted by government quangos.

Mokuba

iptba wrote: »

I don't follow popular culture much - anyone have a link/similar to what Bressie said.

He's gotten in the papers and on radio since.

py2006

Piliger wrote: »

Man Up is all about labelling Men as Abusers, and Women as Victims.

They ignore that 45% of domestic abuse is by women on men.

They ignore the wide body of research that show clearly that they are wrong, sexist and misandrous.

This came this year:

Women are more likely to be verbally and physically aggressive towards their partners than men suggests a new study presented as part of a symposium on intimate partner violence (IPV).

Analysis showed that women were more likely to be physically aggressive to their partners than men and that men were more likely to be physically aggressive to their same-sex others.

No doubt that article will be dismissed as misogynistic nonsense! :rolleyes:

iptba

Joe Biden's Weird Sense of Chivalry
May 3, 2006
by Carey Roberts


Call it senator Joseph Biden's family secret. He grew up with a bully-sister. She didn't just boss people around - she beat people up. Her name was Valerie. She was Joe's younger sister.

How do we know this? Because Mr. Biden, with his usual unblemished candor, told us. It happened during the Senate hearings held on December 11, 1990 to probe the problem of violence against women. This was Biden's tell-all:

"In my house, being raised with a sister and three brothers, there was an absolute - it was a nuclear sanction, if under any circumstances, for any reason, no matter how justified, even self-defense - if you ever touched your sister, not figuratively, literally. My sister, who is my best friend, my campaign manager, my confidante, grew up with absolute impunity in our household."

And this was the good senator's bell-ringer: "And I have the bruises to prove it. I mean that sincerely. I am not exaggerating when I say that."

Most politicians who had experienced that type of childhood trauma would be pushing for a law to protect children from abusive female siblings. But Mr. Biden's reaction was different -- champion a law designed to protect women. Call it the Patty Hearst syndrome, in which an abused person comes to identify with his tormentor.

Why does this matter?

Because thanks to senator Biden's chivalry, taxpayers are now saddled with a billion-dollar-a-year boondoggle called the Violence Against Women Act, a law that looks the other way on female batterers and throws men in jail when they act in self-defense.

continues at:
http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2006/0503roberts.html

I wonder whether this way of being brought up has influenced many people?

Pat Mustard

iptba wrote: »

I wonder whether this way of being brought up has influenced many people?

It's a good thing Biden didn't join the police.

'Officer Biden, there is a woman assaulting people on the street. Go and arrest her.'
'Sorry Sergeant, no can do. You know how it is.'

ancapailldorcha

It'd surely be some form of Stockholm Syndrome. He probably thinks his sister was just ensuring that he walked a moral path.

iptba

I didn't watch this myself but it sounds pretty clear the recent Panorama programme on domestic violence was very unbalanced:

(Dec 10, 2014)
Why men should complain to the BBC about Domestic Violence documentary
http://www.inside-man.co.uk/2014/12/10/why-men-should-complain-to-the-bbc-about-domestic-violence-documentary/

smurgen

As a male I'd have no problem intervening if I saw a woman being assaulted.similarly a male and I have done so on nnumerous occasions.I'm lucky I tall and big so I've the luxury of doing so.I don't need the advice of some "charity" with a dubious cause telling me to defend females and telling me to be a better man at the same time.very patronising and insulting

iptba

(from May 24)

25 Domestically Abused Men Reveal Their Horrifying Stories
http://thoughtcatalog.com/hok-leahcim/2014/05/25-domestically-abused-men-reveal-their-horrifying-stories/

(Actually, point #25 is just a woman making a general point rather than a specific case; but I'm just repeating the article's own heading).

ancapailldorcha

Didn't know where to put this. Also, it's the Daily Mail so apply salt liberally:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1346600/Male-victims-domestic-violence-My-wife-knifed-back.html

iptba

(April 2014 article)

Invisible Victims: When Men Are Abused
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2014/04/09/invisible-victims-when-men-are-abused/

the_syco

1 in 7 women in Ireland compared to 1 in 17 men experience severe domestic violence.

You'd need a serious set of balls to admit you were raped, if you are a man.

Esp when you'll probably expect to be told to "man up" about it...!

Tigger99

A friend of a friend put up one of those stupid sayings on Facebook which is always accompanied by a picture. In this case it was joking about violence against men. I made my opinions about it pretty strongly as did some others. Not enough, but more than I would have seen in the past. I think an awareness of some women abusing men has definitely increased, but there is still a way to go.

The syco, I would think that someone saying man up to a victim of rape is horrific and I sincerely hope that you are wrong and that it would not happen, but maybe it does. I think your post certainly wouldn't help any man to come forward though.

Yurt2

Years ago in college a mate of mine came in with a black eye. When asked about it he said he got it playing 5 a side (elbow in the face).
When pressed about it he just broke down and told us his girlfriend did it. The same girl had his confidence ruined, constantly slagging him in front of friends, ordering him around in public and eventually cheated on him and f*cked off with some other victim. We pleaded with him to cut her loose before she eventually got lost but he was in deep. Took him ages to trust women afterwards, but eventually found a gem of a woman and is getting married next year.

Now, I don't have an issue in highlighting male on female violence, its a pox on humanity. The problem is, Statistically incidents and relationships like the one I described aren't some aberration, they can't be. If that can happen to a friend of mine it can and does happen to thousands of men up and down the country. What I wonder about the Man up campaign is, what must my friend think when he sees it on a bus or a billboard. Is his trauma getting beaten up by a partner any less than if it happened to a woman? Where's his voice? When does his story and others like it get a bus shelter ad campaign?

The problem is (I hate going down this road, but I feel strongly about it) we currently live in a feminist orthodoxy, and feminism doesn't have the language, will or space within it's dogma to admit that pathological abusers (of the physical, emotional and psychological type) exist in both genders and occur in a very similar frequency in both male and females. It's not surprising, there's a lot of sh*t people out there and woman aren't uniquely moral creatures. It's no accident that domestic violence is framed the way it is, admitting the amount of violence that occurs across the board doesn't fit well with what is ultimately a political agenda, which is what feminism is. Domestic violence is no joke, it ruins lives and families. So if you have a budget for a public outreach campaign and want to make a dent in peoples consciousness why not call out all types of violence in the home instead of some of it? I think we know the reason why.

py2006

Yurt! wrote: »

The problem is (I hate going down this road, but I feel strongly about it) we currently live in a feminist orthodoxy, and feminism doesn't have the language, will or space within it's dogma to admit that pathological abusers (of the physical, emotional and psychological type) exist in both genders and occur in a very similar frequency in both male and females. It's not surprising, there's a lot of sh*t people out there and woman aren't uniquely moral creatures. It's no accident that domestic violence is framed the way it is, admitting the amount of violence that occurs across the board doesn't fit well with what is ultimately a political agenda, which is what feminism is. Domestic violence is no joke, it ruins lives and families. So if you have a budget for a public outreach campaign and want to make a dent in peoples consciousness why not call out all types of violence in the home instead of some of it? I think we know the reason why.

Well said.

genericguy

Yurt! wrote: »

Years ago in college a mate of mine came in with a black eye. When asked about it he said he got it playing 5 a side (elbow in the face).
When pressed about it he just broke down and told us his girlfriend did it. The same girl had his confidence ruined, constantly slagging him in front of friends, ordering him around in public and eventually cheated on him and f*cked off with some other victim. We pleaded with him to cut her loose before she eventually got lost but he was in deep. Took him ages to trust women afterwards, but eventually found a gem of a woman and is getting married next year.

Now, I don't have an issue in highlighting male on female violence, its a pox on humanity. The problem is, Statistically incidents and relationships like the one I described aren't some aberration, they can't be. If that can happen to a friend of mine it can and does happen to thousands of men up and down the country. What I wonder about the Man up campaign is, what must my friend think when he sees it on a bus or a billboard. Is his trauma getting beaten up by a partner any less than if it happened to a woman? Where's his voice? When does his story and others like it get a bus shelter ad campaign?

The problem is (I hate going down this road, but I feel strongly about it) we currently live in a feminist orthodoxy, and feminism doesn't have the language, will or space within it's dogma to admit that pathological abusers (of the physical, emotional and psychological type) exist in both genders and occur in a very similar frequency in both male and females. It's not surprising, there's a lot of sh*t people out there and woman aren't uniquely moral creatures. It's no accident that domestic violence is framed the way it is, admitting the amount of violence that occurs across the board doesn't fit well with what is ultimately a political agenda, which is what feminism is. Domestic violence is no joke, it ruins lives and families. So if you have a budget for a public outreach campaign and want to make a dent in peoples consciousness why not call out all types of violence in the home instead of some of it? I think we know the reason why.

Fantastic post.

iptba

Dec 25 piece

'Open the f--king door': Connecticut woman drives through estranged husband's house in off-road rage, cops say (VIDEO*)

Jennifer Luisi, 31, who has 10 prior domestic violence convictions, was arrested late Tuesday after ramming her car into the Southington, Conn. home of her husband of 12 years, police say. She is being held on $250,000 bond — and is on suicide watch.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/conn-woman-drives-estranged-husband-house-article-1.2056387

* It doesn't actually show what happened live, but one can see the track marks on the grass, the car in the house, etc.

iptba

Wasn't sure where to post this.

Facebook defamation: WA [=Western Australia] woman forced to pay ex-husband $12,500 in damages


A WA schoolteacher has successfully sued his ex-wife after she lied about him in posts on Facebook.

In a state first, the Bunbury woman was ordered to pay her estranged husband $12,500 after the District Court found she defamed him on the popular social media platform.

In his decision published in December, Judge Michael Bowden said social media defamation had the ability to spread far and wide with the “simple manipulation of computers”.

The offending comments were posted on the mum-of-two’s profile page in December 2012.

“Separated from (husband) after 18 years of suffering domestic violence and abuse. Now fighting the system to keep my children safe,” the post read.

continues at: http://www.news.com.au/national/western-australia/facebook-defamation-wa-woman-forced-to-pay-ex-husband-12500-in-damages/story-fnj4anv2-1227172952192