"Man Up" campaign by SafeIreland

silverharp

anyone catch the new Irish domestic violence adverts? was surprised when I saw that one of them showed the man as a victim.

Goya

silverharp wrote: »

anyone catch the new Irish domestic violence adverts? was surprised when I saw that one of them showed the man as a victim.

Saw it just now. Very upsetting.

machiavellianme

What's Louise O'Neill going to write about now if men are also being attacked?

iptba

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH3zXk4s0mw

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Min3O_D_wM4

iptba

Article on campaign:

New campaign asks: 'If you witnessed domestic violence, what would you do?'
http://www.thejournal.ie/domestic-abuse-2-3084760-Nov2016/

THE GOVERNMENT’S €950,000 domestic violence campaign aimed at involving bystanders who witness abuse and getting them to act or offer support will begin this Friday.

The campaign is based on research which shows that although 70% of people think domestic abuse in Ireland is a common problem and wish to help, people were unsure of what to do in reaction to incidences of domestic violence.

Funding for the campaign is allocated for 2016 and 2017, and involves artwork from Oscar-winning director Ben Cleary and an award-winning photographer.

The campaign will be launched across outdoor, online, print, and television outlets, and depicts both men and women being assaulted through a half-open door.

Speaking on the additional funding, the Minister said that the upturn in the economy allowed funds to be freed up for the cause:

“I do think it is money well spent. This is a problem, and we need to interrupt it.”

She also said that this national ad campaign would be accompanied by local and grassroots projects, and that there needed to be greater supports around home ownership.

“Women who choose to stay in their family home need to be supported, and there will be those who have to leave. Perpetrators will also be brought to justice.”

Although the campaign depicts both men and women who are at risk of domestic violence, the images of women will appear most frequently in the campaign, in proportion to figures which show they are more likely to be victims of violence, as well as more extreme cases.

iptba

A comment under the piece, posted last Wednesday:

Can you name the womans groups who were not supportive of these adds? Heard it mentioned on radio today

iptba

Domestic violence convention would make men ‘second class citizens’

Narrative tells us ‘it’s ok to say any negative thing about men’

Sat, Nov 19, 2016, 16:34

Efforts to ratify a European convention on domestic violence must be resisted as part of a “highly biased and harmful narrative” in Ireland that places women above men, a conference on Saturday heard.

Last year, Ireland signed the Council of Europe Convention on preventing and combating violence against women and domestic violence, commonly referred to as the Istanbul Convention, and set in motion steps toward its full ratification.

Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald had said the move represented an “important milestone” for campaigners.

“Violence against women is a societal problem and the Istanbul Convention is an important instrument in tackling that problem,” she said.

Continues at:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/domestic-violence-convention-would-make-men-second-class-citizens-1.2875099

Walter H Price

If you see a woman being assaulted , mugged , groped etc ... A real man steps in and does something about it.

Fcuk all thees wanky new notions about gender roles, men are men and women are women, we have a responsibility as lads to protect the women in our lives because lets be honest for the most part the're the more vulnerable sex and a proper man stands up and is counted when they see a vulnerable person in trouble be they a woman , elderly or a child.

Some junkie, gypo or pov tries to steal my fiances phone on the street or puts a hand where they shouldn't, i'm not going crying like a little b!tch to the guards , he's going to A&E and i'm going to buy a new shirt

silverharp

Walter H Price wrote: »

If you see a woman being assaulted , mugged , groped etc ... A real man steps in and does something about it.

Fcuk all thees wanky new notions about gender roles, men are men and women are women, we have a responsibility as lads to protect the women in our lives because lets be honest for the most part the're the more vulnerable sex and a proper man stands up and is counted when they see a vulnerable person in trouble be they a woman , elderly or a child.

Some junkie, gypo or pov tries to steal my fiances phone on the street or puts a hand where they shouldn't, i'm not going crying like a little b!tch to the guards , he's going to A&E and i'm going to buy a new shirt

I dunno , if you intervene in a "lovers tiff" likelyhood is you escalate things and you end up in an A&E or dead for your trouble and the couple go home and have sexy time.
Same thing if you try to intervene in a bag snatch or something, wasn't there a teenager in Dublin a couple of years back that ended up with serious stab wounds for the sake of a stranger's handbag.

Walter H Price

silverharp wrote: »

I dunno , if you intervene in a "lovers tiff" likelyhood is you escalate things and you end up in an A&E or dead for your trouble and the couple go home and have sexy time.
Same thing if you try to intervene in a bag snatch or something, wasn't there a teenager in Dublin a couple of years back that ended up with serious stab wounds for the sake of a stranger's handbag.

There's a difference between a row and something getting out of hand.like if you see two people having a screaming match move along , if he slaps her you should probably slap him .

there probably was but at least there's respect in that , there's no respect in looking the other way like a pussy. Stepped in plenty of times in Dublin yet to get stabbed or see sight of a needle or syringe , the trick is speed , throw a punch first ask questions later if you bother you're arse at all ahahahahaha

Sleepy

**** that, if a woman chooses to involve herself with the kind of man who'll hit her, that's her problem, not mine. I'm not getting stabbed because one scumbag was dragged up and another is stupid enough to find him attractive.

the_syco

Walter H Price wrote: »

There's a difference between a row and something getting out of hand.like if you see two people having a screaming match move along , if he slaps her you should probably slap him .

You slap him, and you'll get done for assault, as it'll be your word versus the word of two people.

KingBrian2

I believe men and women should help each other out if in their in need.

eviltwin

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I believe men and women should help each other out if in their in need.

Yep, if you are wary of stepping in then at least call the gardai. I don't understand the 'you chose to date him' argument. I couldn't just ignore someone being assaulted.

Pawwed Rig

A friend of mine took a stiletto in the back of the head after stepping in to stop a girl being beaten by her boyfriend once. Would make you think twice

Pat Mustard

Walter H Price wrote: »

There's a difference between a row and something getting out of hand.like if you see two people having a screaming match move along , if he slaps her you should probably slap him .

there probably was but at least there's respect in that , there's no respect in looking the other way like a pussy. Stepped in plenty of times in Dublin yet to get stabbed or see siught of a needle or syringe , the trick is speed , throw a punch first ask questions later if you bother you're arse at all ahahahahaha

The voice of bravado and inexperience.

First thing is if you move in quickly and deliver the first blow(s), you'll take the initiative alright and it might be safer than other angles of physical intervention but if the guards arrive, you may have to hope that they'll believe your side of the story. You say that you have 'stepped in plenty of times in Dublin'. If that's true, perhaps you have encountered the guards already.

Secondly, as already pointed out by others, getting stuck into a couple's fight often ends with the couple forgetting their differences to join forces against the would-be rescuer. Not a good result.

tritium

silverharp wrote: »

anyone catch the new Irish domestic violence adverts? was surprised when I saw that one of them showed the man as a victim.

Its a start even if they're showing the male ad less. We're slowly moving sway from the narrative that men arent affected by this in spite of the efforts of some groups to frustrate it. It may still be a long way to go but its progress nonetheless.

Sleepy

eviltwin wrote: »

I don't understand the 'you chose to date him' argument.

It's called accountability and recognising the consequences of one's own actions. Something many people really seem to struggle with these days IME.

I'm not saying that the victim of domestic abuse is to blame for the actions of their abuser, but they have more culpability for being in that position than a random passer by does.

Add in the frequent occurrences of the "damsel" in distress attacking her "white knight" in such scenarios and, IMHO, a passer-by is making a very poor decision if they choose to intervene.

johnnyskeleton

iptba wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH3zXk4s0mw

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Min3O_D_wM4

Do they have any advice as to what you should actually do when you don't walk away? Experience tells us that if a random person intervenes they will no be thanked by the victim of domestic violence. So in either of those videos, if the sister went upstairs to see if everything was ok the couple would probably say it's fine and it would make matters worse. In the second video if the guy intervened what exactly is he supposed to do to stop the abuse?

I'm genuinely wondering about that issue, and it is more pronounced when the people involved might be drunk or on drugs etc. The problem with these campaigns is that they target people who don't commit or receive domestic abuse and make them feel bad about not resoliving the problem, but in reality what can they do?

Conceiveably, these videos are akin to victim shaming - they are bystander shaming. These campaigns know they are ineffective against the actual perpetrators of domestic violence, and have limited success in getting through to the victims. Not content with informing victims and trying to discourage the perpetrators, they now want everyone else to feel bad for not making this awful situation stop.

silverharp

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Do they have any advice as to what you should actually do when you don't walk away? Experience tells us that if a random person intervenes they will no be thanked by the victim of domestic violence. So in either of those videos, if the sister went upstairs to see if everything was ok the couple would probably say it's fine and it would make matters worse. In the second video if the guy intervened what exactly is he supposed to do to stop the abuse?

I'm genuinely wondering about that issue, and it is more pronounced when the people involved might be drunk or on drugs etc. The problem with these campaigns is that they target people who don't commit or receive domestic abuse and make them feel bad about not resoliving the problem, but in reality what can they do?

Conceiveably, these videos are akin to victim shaming - they are bystander shaming. These campaigns know they are ineffective against the actual perpetrators of domestic violence, and have limited success in getting through to the victims. Not content with informing victims and trying to discourage the perpetrators, they now want everyone else to feel bad for not making this awful situation stop.

I must say I think the concept of the videos isnt great, at least in terms of the situations presented, more realistic might be neigbours hearing stuff and guessing whats happening but not following up?

Sleepy

How does one follow up?

In our last house, we always suspected the wife to be abusive. Heard her roaring dogs abuse at her husband regularly. We used to joke about getting a knock from the guards and volunteering to be a character witness for him if he'd finally snapped and killed her.

Never could see a path to helping though. If we'd called the Gardaí, we'd have just brought (further) hassle on ourselves from the neighbourhood weapon and he'd have been the type to tell them nothing was wrong. Even if we'd ever actually seen her assaulting him and reported it, he'd no doubt have refused to press charges for fear of losing his kids.

Sadly, unless the victim actually wants help, there's next to nothing one can do.

johnnyskeleton

Sleepy wrote: »

Even if we'd ever actually seen her assaulting him and reported it, he'd no doubt have refused to press charges for fear of losing his kids.

Sadly, unless the victim actually wants help, there's next to nothing one can do.

Even if he did want help, the Gardai would probably tell him to "man up" and then ask the wife if she wants to press charges.

eviltwin

It's not rocket science. You hear or see someone being assaulted, you phone the guards. You don't have to get involved yourself and no one would expect you to. If you know someone close to you is in an abusive relationship give them support, encourage them to contact the relevant support service. After that it's out of your hands but at least you have tried.

iptba

209 women died violently in Ireland since 1996
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1125/834258-womens-aid-report/

Based on a report by Women's Aid.

WHAT IS FEMICIDE?

Femicide is broadly accepted to be the killing of women and girls by men.5

Femicide is generally defined as the murder of women because they are women, though some definitions include any murders of women or girls. Some definitions also include cases where women are the perpetrators but most refine it to cases where the perpetrator is male. The Women’s Aid Femicide Watch 1996 – 2016 includes all females killed in Ireland, aged 13 plus killed by a male perpetrator and cases yet to be resolved.

So, based on a quick look, it looks like by definition females killed by other females were not counted which would make it look like a problem exclusively caused by men.

And of course, male victims themselves are not included.

A study by World Health Organisation and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine show that more than 38% of all murders of women globally are reported to be committed by an intimate partner. In comparison, the same study estimates that about 6% of all murders of men are committed by an intimate partner.8

Because of the way that is written, a lot of people would read that 6.33 times the amount of women are murdered by their intimate partner than men are by their intimate partner. However the numbers of men and women that are murdered are not the same. So if for example (which I doubt is the case) the number of men are murdered is 6.33 times the number of women who are murdered, equal numbers of men and women would be murdered by their intimate partners. I don't know what the exact figures really are except that a lot more men than women are murdered in total and so the difference in the ratio is a lot less than 6.33.

CaptainR

Can you imagine the sh!tstorm if instead of this being aimed at men that it was aimed at black/traveller/Martian whatever, instead?

Like 10 murders a year by men on women... How many men are in Ireland of an adult age? A million? A million and half? It just seems grossly unfair to paint it as a male trait.

I'm just sick to death of being judged as an entire gender for what a very small minority do.

gizmo555

iptba wrote: »

So, based on a quick look, it looks like by definition females killed by other females were not counted which would make it look like a problem exclusively caused by men.

And of course, male victims themselves are not included.

Some years ago when Women's Aid published similar statistics about the number of women killed by male partners, John Waters contacted them to ask what the figures were for the number of men killed by female spouses or partners. Their response was to the effect that they didn't know and it was no concern of theirs.

PucaMama

gizmo555 wrote: »

Some years ago when Women's Aid published similar statistics about the number of women killed by male partners, John Waters contacted them to ask what the figures were for the number of men killed by female spouses or partners. Their response was to the effect that they didn't know and it was no concern of theirs.

That's because they are women's aid. For women. It's in the name.

Lemming

PucaMama wrote: »

That's because they are women's aid. For women. It's in the name.

And whilst you'd be right in that their focus is on women, these groups are also driving the narrative on Domestic Violence campaigns. Can you not see a rather large gaping hole in that particular setup?

PucaMama

Lemming wrote: »

And whilst you'd be right in that their focus is on women, these groups are also driving the narrative on Domestic Violence campaigns. Can you not see a rather large gaping hole in that particular setup?

A men's group would sort that out.

Pawwed Rig

PucaMama wrote: »

A men's group would sort that out.

The groups that get riduculed and zero funding for anything they try to achieve?