TI Race Calendar

toomuchdetail

I dont think there is any issue with the reduction on the NS races but to me the bigger issue is transparency and a level playing field . If TI set out criteria you should have a ranking system or matrix to score and decide how races are assigned , this way the best races will always rise to the top irrespective, (my view anyway) .
To this end I asked some direct question to TI re how races are decided on with TI and the following was confirmed by TI :

-They do notuse a scoring system to select events.....
-They have a committee of individuals who look at all applications and make the decision based on the factors as outlined below.

Factors from TI:
Geography
Time in the season
Only 1 NS race on a weekend
Ratio of Sprint/Standard/MiddleDistance Races
Any outstanding fees due to TI
Number of competitors the race isable to take
Technical Official report from previous race
Facilities such as showers, changerooms, parking, post-race meals, etc
Prompt payment of race fees in 2013 and return of documentation & race results to TI for NS calculation."

If you tick all these boxes then it should be down to a scoring system to differentiate .

On commercial events the following is a snapshot of reasoning from TI

"TI fully understand that club finances are often derived from events but sometimes because of the proposed race distance, the date, locationand the numbers an event can take, the only choices were events run by commercial organisations"

Based on the communication from TI submitting an NS request is almost futile .

BawstonBoy08

chicofuentes wrote: »

As far as I'm aware a race has to be in existence for at least 3 years, this is just running for 2 years. TI officials oversee TI races and write reports accordingly. I don't think this race was covered by TI hence the hefty price to cover insurance in previous years.

Any race organiser who has applied for national series should be able to tell you it's two years. Events that havent been run with TI for two years previously arent considered for national series.


Can't find the post now, but someone questioned tri ireland asking commercial events for TOs. They do.

tri ireland national series national champs post also says "Races selected for the newly established Regional Championships and other series to follow." so theres obviously at least four more events being considered here.

RacoonQueen

Hoping to do a few races next season :pac:
My thoughts at the moment;
18th May: 3DTri Sprint Triathlon
21st June: Hook or By Crook
5th July: Waterways Ireland triAthlone
31st May: TriAthy Olympic
28th June: Hell of the West
9th August: Caroline Kearney

Can't imagine I'll manage to fit much more in but would like to maybe through in some Aquathlons. Ideally would like to finish up by June so I can concentrate on the third discipline in time for XC season. See what this regional champs thing throws up. Not sure I'd be overly keen on HOTW again, may try get a cyclist and go do the swim and run myself.

Lusk_Doyle

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Hoping to do a few races next season :pac:
My thoughts at the moment;
18th May: 3DTri Sprint Triathlon
21st June: Hook or By Crook
5th July: Waterways Ireland triAthlone
31st May: TriAthy Olympic
28th June: Hell of the West
9th August: Caroline Kearney

Can't imagine I'll manage to fit much more in but would like to maybe through in some Aquathlons. Ideally would like to finish up by June so I can concentrate on the third discipline in time for XC season. See what this regional champs thing throws up. Not sure I'd be overly keen on HOTW again, may try get a cyclist and go do the swim and run myself.

Interesting. Very interesting.

BTW, I cycle and run but I don't swim!

RacoonQueen

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Interesting. Very interesting.

BTW, I cycle and run but I don't swim!

Hows your love of hills?

shotgunmcos

How about a target race for a couple of boards relay teams? Hardman?

RacoonQueen

shotgunmcos wrote: »

How about a target race for a couple of boards relay teams? Hardman?

Does Shadowman have a relay? Middle of the country easier for everyone to get to

Trig1

shotgunmcos wrote: »

How about a target race for a couple of boards relay teams? Hardman?

I'd do cycle leg - if i'm not working!

Lusk_Doyle

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Hows your love of hills?

Huge. I'm a powerful whippet!

littlemsfickle

shotgunmcos wrote: »

How about a target race for a couple of boards relay teams? Hardman?

Hmm...this could be a fun idea!

littlemsfickle

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Hoping to do a few races next season :pac:
My thoughts at the moment;
18th May: 3DTri Sprint Triathlon
21st June: Hook or By Crook
5th July: Waterways Ireland triAthlone
31st May: TriAthy Olympic
28th June: Hell of the West
9th August: Caroline Kearney

Can't imagine I'll manage to fit much more in but would like to maybe through in some Aquathlons. Ideally would like to finish up by June so I can concentrate on the third discipline in time for XC season. See what this regional champs thing throws up. Not sure I'd be overly keen on HOTW again, may try get a cyclist and go do the swim and run myself.

Can one person do 2 legs?

tHE vAGGABOND

Think I may look at Athy for my Tri debut next summer, a mate also does competitive swimming, so wants to do the swim leg of a few races [zero interest in the run or the cycle, so its really all about the pints afterwards!], so I may get dragged into some kind of relay team at a few others for a bit of a laugh..

RacoonQueen

littlemsfickle wrote: »

Can one person do 2 legs?

AFAIK you can, don't think they ask for team members names when registering.

mossym

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

Think I may look at Athy for my Tri debut next summer, a mate also does competitive swimming, so wants to do the swim leg of a few races [zero interest in the run or the cycle, so its really all about the pints afterwards!], so I may get dragged into some kind of relay team at a few others for a bit of a laugh..

was my first race last year. not a bad place to start

68 lost souls

How close together would be too close to be looking at NS races. I have only done 3 sprints so far all in July/August about 2 weeks apart. Im hoping to step up to Olympic Distance this year and want to try and do 5 of the NS races. Im am interested in the following races at the moment.

Sun 18th May - Sprint - 3DTri Sprint (concerned about pool swim as I havent raced in one yet, sure it will be no bother though)
Sat 31st May - Olympic - TriAthy (First Olympic is it too early in the season to be attempting my first Olympic distance?)
Sat 7th June - Sprint - Crooked Lake (Only a week after TriAthy would be pushing it but supposedly a good race and NS+NC
Sat 14th June - Sprint - GloHealthMullaghmore (Really want to do this one)
Sat 28th June - Olympic - HOTW (Again supposedly a great race and would be a great experience doing NS+NC in olympic)
Sun 24th August - Olympic - Dublin City Tri (Did the sprint last year and want to step up to Olympic this year)
Sun 7th September - Olympic - Belfast Titanic (Again heard great things and location is better for me than Blacksod to finish the season).

Would be ideal for me if Crooked lake was in July as the races I want to do are heavily concentrated in June and then Non until the end of August but got to plan ahead now.

What are peoples opinions?

EDIT: It might make the most sense for me to do the 3 sprints at the start of the season and then DCT and Belfast at the end of the year with a gap to train for the longer distance?

shotgunmcos

@68 lost souls - go for it. Make a season out of it. As long as you balance your races. Best of luck!

@everyone else - bike usually my best bit but no TT bike so I'll offer myself up for the swim and/or part of relay.

fluboy

Robbed this from the WTC website. Very handy...

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zJNf9ivwB2A4.kufFN8p7uaHI

mossym

all the arguements about how the west being hard done by, that map would suggest it's the south. and the west doesn't do very well for shorter races

littlemsfickle

shotgunmcos wrote: »

@68 lost souls - go for it. Make a season out of it. As long as you balance your races. Best of luck!

@everyone else - bike usually my best bit but no TT bike so I'll offer myself up for the swim and/or part of relay.

Anything but the run.

frankspain

Hi
With about half the NS races being run by private companies.
And the cut in races will racing be more expensive ?

Early bird offers are fine but most people book their race a lot closer to the date.

Green&Red

Lough cultra was VERY expensive last year.
I would not do such a race where the proceeds were not going to a club or a local charity.

toomuchdetail

I am planning on boycotting the commercial adventures (Lough Cultra €85 -excp eb) and Mullaghmore as it this is ran for the sailingclub .None of these in my view put anything back into local level to support the clubs ,jr development etc . I would rather support those clubs and races who are ran by triathlethe's for triathlethe's and who uses revenue to hire local coaches , hire local halls, club /pools for sessions and reinvests in the next level.

Huff n Puff

toomuchdetail wrote: »

I am planning on boycotting the commercial adventures (Lough Cultra €85 -excp eb) and Mullaghmore as it this is ran for the sailingclub .None of these in my view put anything back into local level to support the clubs ,jr development etc . I would rather support those clubs and races who are ran by triathlethe's for triathlethe's and who uses revenue to hire local coaches , hire local halls, club /pools for sessions and reinvests in the next level.

I agree with the sentiment, but plenty of clubs try to rip people off too. I would however be far more inclined to support rip-off club races, than commercial events. At least you know your entry fees are staying in the sport. I doubt you will be seeing me or many from our club at these commercial events. We certainly wouldn't help promote them.

Profit should be kept to a minimum in my opinion. Each club should feel a duty to put on the best race possible for their triathletes, at as competitive a price as possible. If prices are high then make sure the experience/prizes/goodie bag are excellent. If there are profits at the end of it then great, if not then that's no big deal. I really do like Brett Sutton's take on it all. It's all wishful thinking and some of it is over romanticising the past, but to me it did feel different years ago too. I will keep complaining about races that I feel are not run with the best interests of triathletes at heart because if we don't complain then things will get worse. Although, I have been complaining for ages and TI still go putting Lough Cutra on the NS list - that will lead to trouble.

With the National Series selection, first of all it must be said that the vast majority of triathletes couldn't give a toss who was selected. However, for those that do it seems stange that when greatly reducing the numbers like this there would be new races introduced to the calendar. It is tough enough to reduce the numbers as it is, nevermind reducing them further so that you can fit in a few new untested races. This type of move was always going to cause some upset. In my opinion, the smart way to go about changing this would be to make the large reduction in numbers for 2014. Then start back with rotating the races as you see fit in 2015. It just seems like the least upsetting way of doing it and it would stop the feelings some clubs feel of it being who you know and not what you do.

Disclaimer: Even though the race I am tied to was affected by this, my opinion is not clouded by this. If I was on a National Series selection committee I probably wouldn't select our race either. Don't get me wrong, I think we put on a good race and we look after the triathletes that enter (shameless plug!), but there are bigger events out there that provide more of an experience. We view our race as an excellent warm-up race for the open water tri season ahead.

There are also pros and cons to having a National series race for us:
Pros
race is guaranteed to sell out. There is a certain vanity aspect to it as well. It is always great to see top Irish triathletes at your race.

Cons
We get far fewer local triathletes taking part. The NS race would sell out months in advance. We find that when we are not NS we can promote it a lot more in town right up to the start date and more locals do it. The less competitive atmosphere is also a help. In the long run, not having the NS status is probably better for our club membership (as we don't run the race for profit). People from the local area couldn't care less that it is a National Series event - they barely know what triathlon is.

We provide as low an entry fee as we can so having NS status doesn't mean we bring in more money - it probably means less money as we give out more prize money. As long as we sell out the race - it has sold out every year with or without NS status but it will get tougher and tougher if more commerical and club events keep popping up - it, strangely enough, makes more sense to us from a club development point of view to not be a National Series event.

peter kern

huff n puff I would mostly agree with what you write but at the same time thats one of the advantages of capitalism over komunisim you have choices ;-) and people can chose what they want to do. there is a reason why people pay the big money for an ironman they want the razz matas. I guess thats why so many do Athy and Athlone( my personal view is that both are not good races but people want to do them), and i am not sure if we have the right to tell them they cant do what they want to do.
I guess I write a bit like this this way as i have totally given up that the nat series as something valuable (in terms of performace the way you and I see it) and totally agree with BTH,s point of view. keep nat series as fun series, as it is really good for that (even expand it form last years races i would say ) and from the more profit that could generated by ti start a super series that also includes drafting races for juniors.
As for Ns include private races, club races and good races like nenagh and let people chose what race they want to do like we let them buy the bikes they want to buy. ( this where i get a bit lost we spend thaousand euors in gear ( sold by for profit companies) and then when we talk about races they should all be run for no profit.
Give people the choice and the options to do what they want to do

I am more worried that at the moment athetes dont have a chocie to do a nat sereis sprint race in August (?) and september and i think thats problematic for the people that have injuries or want to do an early half Ironman etc etc.

the truth is all average triathletes i talk to love the nat sereis and most of those people are now concered that the scramble to enter race will get worse.( and i cant see how they can be wrong with that point of view)

Huff n Puff wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment, but plenty of clubs try to rip people off too. I would however be far more inclined to support rip-off club races, than commercial events. At least you know your entry fees are staying in the sport. I doubt you will be seeing me or many from our club at these commercial events. We certainly wouldn't help promote them.

Profit should be kept to a minimum in my opinion. Each club should feel a duty to put on the best race possible for their triathletes, at as competitive a price as possible. If prices are high then make sure the experience/prizes/goodie bag are excellent. If there are profits at the end of it then great, if not then that's no big deal. I really do like Brett Sutton's take on it all. It's all wishful thinking and some of it is over romanticising the past, but to me it did feel different years ago too. I will keep complaining about races that I feel are not run with the best interests of triathletes at heart because if we don't complain then things will get worse. Although, I have been complaining for ages and TI still go putting Lough Cutra on the NS list - that will lead to trouble.

With the National Series selection, first of all it must be said that the vast majority of triathletes couldn't give a toss who was selected. However, for those that do it seems stange that when greatly reducing the numbers like this there would be new races introduced to the calendar. It is tough enough to reduce the numbers as it is, nevermind reducing them further so that you can fit in a few new untested races. This type of move was always going to cause some upset. In my opinion, the smart way to go about changing this would be to make the large reduction in numbers for 2014. Then start back with rotating the races as you see fit in 2015. It just seems like the least upsetting way of doing it and it would stop the feelings some clubs feel of it being who you know and not what you do.

Disclaimer: Even though the race I am tied to was affected by this, my opinion is not clouded by this. If I was on a National Series selection committee I probably wouldn't select our race either. Don't get me wrong, I think we put on a good race and we look after the triathletes that enter (shameless plug!), but there are bigger events out there that provide more of an experience. We view our race as an excellent warm-up race for the open water tri season ahead.

There are also pros and cons to having a National series race for us:
Pros
race is guaranteed to sell out. There is a certain vanity aspect to it as well. It is always great to see top Irish triathletes at your race.

Cons
We get far fewer local triathletes taking part. The NS race would sell out months in advance. We find that when we are not NS we can promote it a lot more in town right up to the start date and more locals do it. The less competitive atmosphere is also a help. In the long run, not having the NS status is probably better for our club membership (as we don't run the race for profit). People from the local area couldn't care less that it is a National Series event - they barely know what triathlon is.

We provide as low an entry fee as we can so having NS status doesn't mean we bring in more money - it probably means less money as we give out more prize money. As long as we sell out the race - it has sold out every year with or without NS status but it will get tougher and tougher if more commerical and club events keep popping up - it, strangely enough, makes more sense to us from a club development point of view to not be a National Series event.

frankspain

The way i see it local races generate money for local clubs which makes Triathlon
cheaper for club members.+ all the benefits that go with it ( local race = support for local business ,money generated spent on club coaching/gear/equipment etc)

Private race wont help me as a club member.
Without a good club structure Triathlon will be more expensive.

I see TI have taken down the contact details of their regional officers on their web site ?

tunney

peter kern wrote: »

huff n puff I would mostly agree with what you write but at the same time thats one of the advantages of capitalism over komunisim you have choices ;-) and people can chose what they want to do. there is a reason why people pay the big money for an ironman they want the razz matas. I guess thats why so many do Athy and Athlone( my personal view is that both are not good races but people want to do them), and i am not sure if we have the right to tell them they cant do what they want to do.
I guess I write a bit like this this way as i have totally given up that the nat series as something valuable (in terms of performace the way you and I see it) and totally agree with BTH,s point of view. keep nat series as fun series, as it is really good for that (even expand it form last years races i would say ) and from the more profit that could generated by ti start a super series that also includes drafting races for juniors.
As for Ns include private races, club races and good races like nenagh and let people chose what race they want to do like we let them buy the bikes they want to buy. ( this where i get a bit lost we spend thaousand euors in gear ( sold by for profit companies) and then when we talk about races they should all be run for no profit.
Give people the choice and the options to do what they want to do

I am more worried that at the moment athetes dont have a chocie to do a nat sereis sprint race in August (?) and september and i think thats problematic for the people that have injuries or want to do an early half Ironman etc etc.

the truth is all average triathletes i talk to love the nat sereis and most of those people are now concered that the scramble to enter race will get worse.( and i cant see how they can be wrong with that point of view)

https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95604?hl=en-GB

Oryx

It would be hypocritical of me to complain that commercial races are becoming more commonplace, and are being offered NS status. The majority (if not all) of the major races I've done have been commercially run. Some were stupidly expensive. Most were very good, some not so much. As Peter says, you pay the big money for the big razzmatazz, if that's what floats your boat. What I care about is that a race is run well, and sometimes, a club run race is better, as the people involved understand the sport. I dont like seeing the prices creep up overall though, it makes the whole sport greedy. WTC is outrageous, but their marketing is genius, so they fill their races. Should triathlon as a whole follow that model? I really hope they don't, its small, cheap races that get people into the sport.

Problems? I've done commercial races where they get paid marshals or cub scouts who don't know one end of a bike from the other, or understand what it is they are required to do. I've seen races where commercial organisers skimp on essentials like transition security, because they won't pay the manpower to cover it. On the plus side, if it is an actual event company, they do this day in day out, and know what is required. But not all are. And if clubs get squeezed out of race organisation, the whole sport will suffer, as the club setup will lose a valuable income stream.

Looking at the race calendar I'm glad some of the races I want to do are not NS, as they will be easier to get into. I don't care about the points, myself.

Oryx

tunney wrote: »

https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95604?hl=en-GB

Ahem.

tunney wrote:

I was being nice. Going to try it for a bit.

peter kern

i agree,i am not sure but maybe Ti sees it in another way why would they chose those commercially organiced races for the NS, they must think it is of benefit to the sport. Has Ti explained why they would chose a commercial race over a club race.
Do they get more money from them which they put into junior development etc etc.

Oryx wrote: »

It would be hypocritical of me to complain that commercial races are becoming more commonplace, and are being offered NS status. The majority (if not all) of the major races I've done have been commercially run. Some were stupidly expensive. Most were very good, some not so much. As Peter says, you pay the big money for the big razzmatazz, if that's what floats your boat. What I care about is that a race is run well, and sometimes, a club run race is better, as the people involved understand the sport. I dont like seeing the prices creep up overall though, it makes the whole sport greedy. WTC is outrageous, but their marketing is genius, so they fill their races. Should triathlon as a whole follow that model? I really hope they don't, its small, cheap races that get people into the sport.

Problems? I've done commercial races where they get paid marshals or cub scouts who don't know one end of a bike from the other, or understand what it is they are required to do. I've seen races where commercial organisers skimp on essentials like transition security, because they won't pay the manpower to cover it. On the plus side, if it is an actual event company, they do this day in day out, and know what is required. But not all are. And if clubs get squeezed out of race organisation, the whole sport will suffer, as the club setup will lose a valuable income stream.

Looking at the race calendar I'm glad some of the races I want to do are not NS, as they will be easier to get into. I don't care about the points, myself.

BTH

peter kern wrote: »

i agree,i am not sure but maybe Ti sees it in another way why would they chose those commercially organiced races for the NS, they must think it is of benefit to the sport. Has Ti explained why they would chose a commercial race over a club race.
Do they get more money from them which they put into junior development etc etc.

toomuchdetail wrote: »

Number of competitors the race isable to take

I would imagine this is a major factor. Athlone & Athy can accommodate very large numbers, which other races can't, and with the reduced number of races perhaps Lough Cutra have committed to be able to host 500/600 or more. Not many club races are going to be willing to take on such numbers while commercial races will just at the opportunity to boost numbers as its pure profit which is all they want in the first place. The more I think about it the more I think this is a major factor in Lough Cutra getting the nod.