puppy price

Knine

Lemlin wrote: »

You seem to have misunderstood my point. My point is you were listing the cost of attaining "champion status" for your dogs as a cost tied into the pups.

I would disagree with this. I would see this as a cost you would have as part of your hobby anyway. An every day cost like feeding the dog.

You'd have that cost whether your dog had puppies or not.

No I would not because any of my dogs that do not make the grade for showing will never be bred from. I don't breed from pet quality dogs.

Lemlin

Knine wrote: »

No I would not because any of my dogs that do not make the grade for showing will never be bred from. I don't breed from pet quality dogs.

So you only show your dogs to increase their worth for breeding?

Knine

Lemlin wrote: »

So you only show your dogs to increase their worth for breeding?

Nope I only breed a litter if I'm looking for a puppy for myself or to continue lines. Basically to improve the dogs. I also do agility with the dogs as a show career can be fairly short.

The costs of this AND the proven quality of my dogs are reflected in the price. I get a lot of phone calls a week looking for puppies. My young puppy dog is already being requested as a stud dog.

Lemlin

Knine wrote: »

Nope I only breed a litter if I'm looking for a puppy for myself or to continue lines. Basically to improve the dogs. I also do agility with the dogs as a show career can be fairly short.

The costs of this AND the proven quality of my dogs are reflected in the price. I get a lot of phone calls a week looking for puppies. My young puppy dog is already being requested as a stud dog.

I'm not debating the price at all. I've continually said thst. You are entitled to charge whatever you please.

What I am debating is the overheads a breeder faces. You listed having a "champion standard" dog as one.

I wouldn't see that as an overhead. I would see that as part of your hobby. Your hobby is showing dogs. I would see it as an expense you would have regardless of whether you breed from your show dog or not. Would you not agree?

And if you only breed when you want a puppy, why would you have waiting lists? Surely people are on a list because you plan to breed again.

Knine

Lemlin wrote: »

I'm not debating the price at all. I've continually said thst. You are entitled to charge whatever you please.

What I am debating is the overheads a breeder faces. You listed having a "champion standard" dog as one.

I wouldn't see that as an overhead. I would see that as part of your hobby. Your hobby is showing dogs. I would see it as an expense you would have regardless of whether you breed from your show dog or not. Would you not agree?

And if you only breed when you want a puppy, why would you have waiting lists? Surely people are on a list because you plan to breed again.

People would be on a waiting list for other reputable breeders. I don't keep a separate list for me. If someone rings me & really wants a puppy. I will help them out by recommending a breeder who may have puppies. I would also sometimes know of suitable adults or rescues.
I have male dogs too who people will want to use.

Of course a great deal of people will contact me who will never be suitable to sell a puppy to.

Of course having a Champion dog costs more then having a pet dog. A champion does not get its title without large costs - both time & money.

Mandzhalas

right,thanks everyone for replies.i would like to make few points:
i am looking for family member.not show dog or dog for future breeding.i could not care less if puppy comes from champions background
i am aware about frenchies breathing problems.that is my main concern.
so you people saying that frenchie without breathing problems cannot be bought on donedeal? an certainly not under 1500 euros?

Lemlin

Knine wrote: »

People would be on a waiting list for other reputable breeders. I don't keep a separate list for me. If someone rings me & really wants a puppy. I will help them out by recommending a breeder who may have puppies. I would also sometimes know of suitable adults or rescues.
I have male dogs too who people will want to use.

Of course a great deal of people will contact me who will never be suitable to sell a puppy to.

Of course having a Champion dog costs more then having a pet dog. A champion does not get its title without large costs - both time & money.

You referred to it as "my puppy waiting list" so I presumed it was your own list. So when you refer to your puppy waiting list on here you mean your list for you and other breeders?

Quotes from you;

If someone tried to negotiate the price of a puppy by €200 I would be taking them off my puppy waiting list. I would also be worried that they might want to negotiate on other aspects of the dogs care or treat the dog as expendable.

It is actually quite difficult to get quality puppies, I had to disappoint many people & my best puppy never left my home. Anyone wanting to negotiate can go elsewhere! I am also extremely fussy about where my dogs go.

I never said having a Champion dog costs less than having a pet dog. Again, you are ignoring my actual questioning and going off on a tangent.

I said that having your Champion dog is a cost of your hobby. Therefore it is not an overhead of breeding puppies. Is showing dogs not your hobby?

fiacha

I'm feeling sorry for the OP, his questions are getting lost in the great breeding debate .

I think your best bet is to get in touch with the irish club and have a chat with them about breeders and recent costs. At least then you will have an idea of what budget you will need to get a dog from a reputable breeder.

Best of luck with it.

Knine

Lemlin wrote: »

You referred to it as "my puppy waiting list" so I presumed it was your own list. So when you refer to your puppy waiting list on here you mean your list for you and other breeders?

Quote from you;



I never said having a Champion dog costs less than having a pet dog. Again, you are ignoring my actual questioning and going off on a tangent.

I said that having your Champion dog is a cost of your hobby. Therefore it is not an overhead of breeding puppies. Is showing dogs not your hobby?

The costs of my hobby mean my dogs are proven to be high quality. I have it in writing basically - certs etc.
If I want to prove I have good dogs I have to show them, field trial them etc etc. This COSTS money, can you understand that? I don't go on various websites saying Champions in (distant) pedigree etc etc when the parents don't even resemble the breed they are supposed to be. Not off on a tangent at all.

If a genuine person is looking for a puppy/rescue/adult I will put them on a list & help them get a dog.

Knine

Mandzhalas wrote: »

right,thanks everyone for replies.i would like to make few points:
i am looking for family member.not show dog or dog for future breeding.i could not care less if puppy comes from champions background
i am aware about frenchies breathing problems.that is my main concern.
so you people saying that frenchie without breathing problems cannot be bought on donedeal? an certainly not under 1500 euros?

If you want a decent French Bulldog, it is going to cost you a lot of money. The problem with DD is that there are an awful lot of backyard breeders on it. Like others have mentioned, have you contacted the IKC? Another place to look would be Champdogs. You could attend the IKC show on the 27th of December (Cloghran) where you will meet breeders. Also an option might be to source a dog in the UK?

Edited to add there are litters available on Champdogs. Having a browse will give you an idea of prices, health testing that has been done etc.

anniehoo

Thanks Knine for acknowledging the OPs question.

Mandzhalas wrote: »

right,thanks everyone for replies.i would like to make few points:
i am looking for family member.not show dog or dog for future breeding.i could not care less if puppy comes from champions background
i am aware about frenchies breathing problems.that is my main concern.
so you people saying that frenchie without breathing problems cannot be bought on donedeal? an certainly not under 1500 euros?

There have been lots of very valid points and believe it or not Lemlin and Knine, you're on the same page relatively. You both are responsible breeders who want and do the best for your dogs. Your methods and stance on selling might differ but your overall "code of ethics" is similar.

Whether there's a €100 haggle (yes I said haggle) difference in an already expensive and well bred dog is imho down to semantics.Some won't budge as already outlined, some will vary slightly, but the difference in "bargaining" on a €1500 dog down to €800 is the issue.

OP, contact all and any breed clubs you can find,including the UK as mentioned. Find out everything you can about what consitutes a well bred and healthy Frenchie. Even ring your local vets and ask their opinion on what they see from a badly bred dog. You will soon find out that an €800 pup may mean that they are bred from a dog that has had a litter every year (or more) for her whole life. Run a mile.When you research this breed and talk to people in the know, you will very quickly be able to distinguish the breeders who are in it for the love of the breed and those who are out to make a quick buck, with no thought or care for the future welfare of the pups they are selling.

tk123

Mandzhalas wrote: »

right,thanks everyone for replies.i would like to make few points:
i am looking for family member.not show dog or dog for future breeding.i could not care less if puppy comes from champions background
i am aware about frenchies breathing problems.that is my main concern.
so you people saying that frenchie without breathing problems cannot be bought on donedeal? an certainly not under 1500 euros?

Show dog can be a bit of a red herring. It doesn't matter if you want to show or if you just want a pet - you want a pup that's had both it's parents health tested and certified as healthy and 99% of pups on donedeal won't have this. The few hundred euro you save now buying a pup will be a drop in the ocean compared to vet's bills if the dog goes on to have health issues. Health issues and behavioral issues go hand in hand = money spent on trainer/behaviorist fees. Also it's the 14th of November which is getting close to Christmas - no reputable breeder will have pups at Christmas time.

Lemlin

Knine wrote: »

The costs of my hobby mean my dogs are proven to be high quality. I have it in writing basically - certs etc.
If I want to prove I have good dogs I have to show them, field trial them etc etc. This COSTS money, can you understand that? I don't go on various websites saying Champions in (distant) pedigree etc etc when the parents don't even resemble the breed they are supposed to be. Not off on a tangent at all.

If a genuine person is looking for a puppy/rescue/adult I will put them on a list & help them get a dog.

I don't see the need to get smart with the comment "can you understand that?". Where did I ever say I didn't understand it? Where did I ever say it doesn't cost money? You continue to avoid my simple point which boils down to:

Its part of your hobby to show dogs. Yes, that costs money but it is part of your hobby. Not an overhead in relation to breeding. You would have these costs even if you never bred a puppy.

It's like a man with a good hunting or field trial dog. Those sports are the person's hobby yet they cost money. When the owner breeds their dog the pups are worth more if the dam/sire were good at the chosen sport. However, a man with a hunting dog would not see his expenses from hunting as an overhead of his breeding. These costs are part of his hobby: hunting. He would have those costs regardless of whether he bred the dog or not.

Rips

Mandzhalas wrote: »

right,thanks everyone for replies.i would like to make few points:
i am looking for family member.not show dog or dog for future breeding.i could not care less if puppy comes from champions background
i am aware about frenchies breathing problems.that is my main concern.
so you people saying that frenchie without breathing problems cannot be bought on donedeal? an certainly not under 1500 euros?

If you want to buy a pedigree though, the only way you have to ensure the health of your puppy (whether you want it for a pet, or a champion) is to source a responsible breeder. Usually the people who do this, love the breed and show or work their animals. Someone with the knowledge and love for the breed to take due care.

If you look at all the Frenchies on Donedeal at the moment, there is only one dog who has any mention of health tests, an adult dog that costs 2,2k. There is a least one test that really should be mandatory, and that is a test for hereditary juvenile cataracts. Cataract surgery costs upwards of 1,5k and without it, the dog would be blind from a young age. The surgery has a relatively high fail rate also. It is a noted problem in French Bulldogs.

There are other ads which link to 'breeders' websites, whose dogs have had no health testing at all and would still like to charge you a premium price.

There is one breeders website in the country, who have taken all the precautions they can take to ensure the puppies they are breeding are healthy. They do not sell puppies online, and they do not list prices, but you can take it that their dogs are very expensive. If you look at those dogs appearance, there is no comparison in quality.

Even still, none of this testing will assure you that your puppy will not suffer from breathing issues - your best bet is to look at both parents and assess their health. You can ask about their medical history, but apart from proven test results, you can only take the breeders word - this is why it is so important to source a good breeder.

It seems like you may need to do a lot more research though yourself, before you could even start to reliably judge what you are getting for your money.

anniehoo

I posted not too long ago about seeing an add on DD selling Frenchies for €2-3k. :eek::eek: So, OP going upwards in price is also not an indication of getting a better dog.

Lemlin and Knine, while I am respecting both of your points of view can you help the OP to avoid the common pitfalls you see in "BYB/puppy farmer" ads.I'm sure you sigh when you see certain ads advertising "your breed" for sale.

What terminology should rings alarm bells for the OP? Are there "breeder/seller" responses that stick out a mile that should be avoided etc. We've heard from excellent Rottweiler, Labrador and Border Terrier breeders, but not French Bulldogs.

Help the OP to understand the ads they should run a mile from,the important questions that they should ask a breeder to help them differentiate a decent responsible breeder from a sub standard one.

I think we're overwhelming the OP here with breeder tit for tat that isn't helping them too much.

I'm editing to add I find it difficult telling the difference between a French Bulldog and a Boston Terrier.

Stella Virgo

Mandzhalas wrote: »

hi
i am in market for new puppy.and maybe this is not right forum,but here is my question:
if puppy cost 800,how much is price negiotable?can i get it for 600?
if i am buying a car,i would negiotate like mad and normally get it 15-25% less than asking price
Is it same story with puppies?I dont want insult owner

dont be silly , of course you can haggle the price,it a dog yer buying,not the crown jewels:pac:(ps. nobody EVER pays the asking price in a private sale )
offer 600/650 and no more, i guarantee if you stick to your price ,he will grab the arm off you. you have the cash and he wants it......

Ms. Pingui

Many people have great emotional attachments to horses and ponies, yet haggle on prices for them all the time. Not just at fairs either.
I don't understand how emotional attachment has anything to do with haggling?

Knine

anniehoo wrote: »

I posted not too long ago about seeing an add on DD selling Frenchies for €2-3k. :eek::eek: So, OP going upwards in price is also not an indication of getting a better dog.

Lemlin and Knine, while I am respecting both of your points of view can you help the OP to avoid the common pitfalls you see in "BYB/puppy farmer" ads.I'm sure you sigh when you see certain ads advertising "your breed" for sale.

What terminology should rings alarm bells for the OP? Are there "breeder/seller" responses that stick out a mile that should be avoided etc. We've heard from excellent Rottweiler, Labrador and Border Terrier breeders, but not French Bulldogs.

Help the OP to understand the ads they should run a mile from,the important questions that they should ask a breeder to help them differentiate a decent responsible breeder from a sub standard one.

I think we're overwhelming the OP here with breeder tit for tat that isn't helping them too much.

Ok things that would make me run a mile in an ad.

No health tests mentioned at all
Pictures of puppies in a shed
Pictures of puppies beside can's of coke or in flowerpots etc
Pictures of adults who don't look like French Bulldogs.
Descriptions of miniature where there is only one standard size.
Crazy different prices for different colour's
Very rare (unrecognised) colour hence price tag of 3k
Non IKC reg
Need gone by xxx day
First to see will buy ( i.e I will sell to anyone who has the money)


Questions to ask

Why are you breeding?
Familiarise yourself with breed specific health issues & ask are the Certs available for viewing for both parents?
Can you see the mother?sire may not be on premises
How many litters has the bitch had?
Will they stand by any genetic issues in case they appear in a puppy?
Is there after sales advice, contract in place, endorsements.

The breeder should ask the buyer many questions. I practically interview any potential new owners.

anniehoo

Absolutely fantastic Knine

Can you or anyone else answer my query. I have literally no idea bar size wise what is the difference between these 2.

wrote:

I'm editing to add I find it difficult telling the difference between a French Bulldog and a Boston Terrier.

Knine

anniehoo wrote: »

Absolutely fantastic Knine

Can you or anyone else answer my query. I have literally no idea bar size wise what is the difference between these 2.

Ok in summary

The Boston Terrier is longer legged, more athletic & lighter in bone then the French Bulldog. They don't have wrinkles on their face. They commonly come in black coat colour & should have white markings - white chest & blaze on their face, white on their front legs, They are more active then the Frenchie.

The French Bulldog are much more compact, muscled and have heavier bone. They have large bat ears compared to the Boston. They have a shorter lifespan then the Boston.

Neither breed likes the heat or cold. I find Bostons more stubborn then the Frenchies.

DBB

Knine wrote: »

The French Bulldog are much more compact, muscled and have heavier bone. They have large bat ears compared to the Boston. They have a shorter lifespan then the Boston.

Like a few other similar breeds, it's only when you see them side by side that you realise that they are quite different to one another! People confuse my black GSD for a Groenendael a lot (including people who really should know better ), but if they only saw a Groenendael next to her, they'd be morto for making the mistake
As knine says, the Frenchie is a lot sturdier and stockier, and not as tall as the Boston. Their facial features are quite different, their ears different shapes.
Personality-wise, is it just me or is the Frenchie a little more serious than the Boston? The Bostons I've met are utterly berserk, in very much the nicest possible way But maybe it's just the ones I've met
Seize an opportunity to get to see them both Anniehoo! Go to a show, or maybe Pet Expo will have both breeds there, so you can see what I mean.


Edited to ad: I just clicked on your link there Anniehoo, and see they say the Boston comes in black and white. In fact, their original colour, I'm reliably informed, is a beautiful rich mahogany colour, with brindling. But the black and white became very popular and almost overcame the original colouring... but I know a breeder who has one of the brown and white Bostons, the colour is just beeeeautiful!

anniehoo

DBB wrote: »

Seize an opportunity to get to see them both Anniehoo! Go to a show, or maybe Pet Expo will have both breeds there, so you can see what I mean.

There's an (easy on the eye fella ) who I see in my local park walking either a boston terrier or french bulldog, but I'm too shy (:p) to ask the difference.

I see brachycephalic/short nosed breeds (boxers, pugs) in work regularly...but these breeds are so rare they stand out a mile.

I'll ask the next time hehe I promise.This dog is stunning.

I swear I was only looking at the dog

DBB

Well now you can impress him with your encyclopaedic knowledge.
But knine and I insist in being bridesmaids

Knine

Haha yes the Bostons are quite lively in a clownish sort of way. Side by side you would never mistake them.

I notice that at classes the Frenchie's are very owner orientated.

Both have lovely personalities. I have heard that the Frenchies should not swim due to their head size weighing them down.

Kids shout "mammy look at that labradoodle" when they see our Spinone. Even worse - "his puppies are lovely" pointing at the adult Borders.

anniehoo

DBB wrote: »

Well now you can impress him with your encyclopaedic knowledge.
But knine and I insist in being bridesmaids

Done.

Can you imagine the conversation

Anniehoo (after 2 years): Hiya, eh....I was just wondering what breed your dog is

Fella: Boston Terrier

Anniehoo: Oooh..greeeeat...can I tell ya about an online conversation I had about me wondering about whether it was a frenchie or bos.........waaaiiiiit.....come baaaaack.....I have bridesmaids and all sorted!!!!

Fella: *not audible he's running so fast*

:D

borderlinemeath

Knine wrote: »

Haha yes the Bostons are quite lively in a clownish sort of way. Side by side you would never mistake them.

I notice that at classes the Frenchie's are very owner orientated.

Both have lovely personalities. I have heard that the Frenchies should not swim due to their head size weighing them down.

Kids shout "mammy look at that labradoodle" when they see our Spinone. Even worse - "his puppies are lovely" pointing at the adult Borders.

If he's ever a sire...I might like to be on that waiting list. I absolutely love spinones...

wolfpawnat

Lemlin wrote: »

I disagree strongly with this. If there was "toss all profit" from breeding, why would people be doing it regularly and have waiting lists and the like?

I can understand breeders like Andreac above who bred to have a pup herself from her dog but there's obviously money in breeding if people continue to do it regularly.

Yes, you do spend alot of time.money on the pups and looking after the dam, as I know myself, but you are rewarded in monetary terms at the end of it. People wouldn't be doing it otherwise.

When I bred my Yorkie, she had a litter of 4 and a litter of 7. Many thought I was after making a little packet for myself, but good quality food, regular vet checks and the usual puppy related things such as wormers and what not mean that there was very little left in the end, and after the 7, I felt it best to neuter her, she was 5 by then and I didn't think it fair to drain her. Each pup cost about 130-150 from pregnancy to sale factoring in all expenses, so there was very little profit on a 200e dog. But it wasn't about the money for me, and it is not a good way to make a living. Only puppy farmers could ever really profit from it.

sillysmiles wrote: »

I'm just wondering if there is a difference in the pricing structure for a vet that only does small animals compare to a vet that does both small and large animals?

Small animal vets don't tend to have call out fees like mixed practise vets. But they tend to be the same cost for procedures, there would be little difference in cost between your local mixed and your local small animal vet for vaccines, neuterings, etc.

Lemlin wrote: »

I had read the post. I had assumed that you were using the same veterinary practice but it was a different vet then the one you use because yours was not available.

Out of hours in Dublin means all vets tell you to go to UCD veterinary hospital with any medical issues. Before your animal is even seen, there is a 70e up front fee (hugely extortionate IMO) and all procedures seem more expensive there too!

Lemlin

wolfpawnat wrote: »

When I bred my Yorkie, she had a litter of 4 and a litter of 7. Many thought I was after making a little packet for myself, but good quality food, regular vet checks and the usual puppy related things such as wormers and what not mean that there was very little left in the end, and after the 7, I felt it best to neuter her, she was 5 by then and I didn't think it fair to drain her. Each pup cost about 130-150 from pregnancy to sale factoring in all expenses, so there was very little profit on a 200e dog. But it wasn't about the money for me, and it is not a good way to make a living. Only puppy farmers could ever really profit from it

I think we have a fixation with puppy farmers on this forum! Wherever breeding is mentioned, they get brought up. Let's stay away from the puppy farmers, and take a reputable breeder.

Are you telling me that someone involved in the Labrador club for example, who could have anywhere from five to nine or ten pups, isn't making a profit when pups are sold for €600 to €650? That they have €3000 to €6000 puppy associated costs per litter?

I cannot see how the cost for each puppy would be €130 to €150 in a litter of seven. Could you expand on the costs you had? You also sold your Yorkie pups for well below the market price. I don't know much about the breed but a standard Yorkie pup is at least €300 to €350 even on Donedeal from my knowledge.

Wormer, for example, its €26 for 100ml of Drontal Worming Solution that will last the pups until they are 8 weeks and rehomed. Flea treatment would be €3 to €4 a pup. I can't see how the pups would require more than, say, three vet checks.
A consult is, what, €70. We all know puppys eat a lot but I can't see a litter of small dogs eating a huge amount between 2 to 3 weeks and 8 weeks.

Even with the high costs, you still made a monetary profit of €350 from pups that you chose to sell for €100 to €150 below the market price.

I also never said people were making a living from it. Of course they aren't. I just said so many wouldn't be breeding, even reputable breeders, if they weren't making a profit from it. And I think it's very naieve to think otherwise.

I have no problem with people from clubs etc. making profit. Pups are alot of time and effort. What I do have a problem with is people acting like they are holier than thou individuals who don't make some form of monetary gain from it.

tk123

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Out of hours in Dublin means all vets tell you to go to UCD veterinary hospital with any medical issues. Before your animal is even seen, there is a 70e up front fee (hugely extortionate IMO) and all procedures seem more expensive there too!

Plenty of vets in Dublin have out of hours services - I don't think I'd use a vet who didn't and that's just for pets let alone a bitch about to give birth.

wolfpawnat

Lemlin wrote: »

I think we have a fixation with puppy farmers on this forum! Wherever breeding is mentioned, they get brought up. Let's stay away from the puppy farmers, and take a reputable breeder.

If a person talks about breeding, puppy farmers are going to have to come up because they are an integral part of the conversation. That is like having a conversation on sex education without mentioning pregnancy. It just cannot happen.

Lemlin wrote: »

Are you telling me that someone involved in the Labrador club for example, who could have anywhere from five to nine or ten pups, isn't making a profit when pups are sold for €600 to €650? That they have €3000 to €6000 puppy associated costs per litter?

Since I am related and close to people in many aspects of this area, I can honestly say, not one of them has made notable profit from ethical breeding practises. Some profit, but nothing substantial.

Lemlin wrote: »

I cannot see how the cost for each puppy would be €130 to €150 in a litter of seven. Could you expand on the costs you had? You also sold your Yorkie pups for well below the market price. I don't know much about the breed but a standard Yorkie pup is at least €300 to €350 even on Donedeal from my knowledge.

The market was fairly flooded with Yorkies at the time. The 4 pups sold for 250, the 7 for 200 as was the recommended pricing going by scouring different sites, talking to other breeders, etc. Costs were wormer, microchipping, IKC registering, flea treatment, good quality food, vet visits for mother and pups, extra visits for the mother after the 7 as she was very ill, I counted in her neutering after the 7 from the money from pup sales. Checks for her and father before breedings, and petrol costs from driving them to their new homes. They viewed the puppies before sale at my home, but when it came time for the sale itself, I brought them to their new homes. I wanted to be sure they were in a suitable environment. In one case a pup was given back and she required vet care and neutering also. She was not sold on again.

Lemlin wrote: »

Wormer, for example, its €26 for 100ml of Drontal Worming Solution that will last the pups until they are 8 weeks and rehomed. Flea treatment would be €3 to €4 a pup. I can't see how the pups would require more than, say, three vet checks.
A consult is, what, €70. We all know puppys eat a lot but I can't see a litter of small dogs eating a huge amount between 2 to 3 weeks and 8 weeks.

I was living in a very remote part of West Kerry, my nearest vet was one of the only small animal one west of Tralee, and as such charged substantially more than I had paid before I moved there. Good quality food for 7 little mouths is expensive enough, no, it was nothing near the cost for if I had Rotties or Labs, but still, you get out of a pup what you put into it.

Lemlin wrote: »

Even with the high costs, you still made a monetary profit of €350 from pups that you chose to sell for €100 to €150 below the market price.

The price charged was indicative of the average sale price of that time. My dogs were not show dogs so I could only charge middle range prices.

Lemlin wrote: »

I also never said people were making a living from it. Of course they aren't. I just said so many wouldn't be breeding, even reputable breeders, if they weren't making a profit from it. And I think it's very naieve to think otherwise.

I have no problem with people from clubs etc. making profit. Pups are alot of time and effort. What I do have a problem with is people acting like they are holier than thou individuals who don't make some form of monetary gain from it.

No person on this green earth would do it for a loss, but it is something that requires a lot of love and personal interest to do right. And the gains are not great. It would never be something to do on the side as a handy profit maker if you catch my drift.

There is always a risk of C-Section which is expensive. All British bulldog bítches are supposed to have c-sections as it is dangerous for them to birth naturally due to the size of puppies heads these days. So before a bítch is even covered by a dog, that cost has to be factored, but that is indicative in the sale price too.