puppy price

wolfpawnat

tk123 wrote: »

Plenty of vets in Dublin have out of hours services - I don't think I'd use a vet who didn't and that's just for pets let alone a bitch about to give birth.

Really, whereabouts in Dublin? We had an emergency with a pet one weekend and tried everywhere in our vicinity, but all of them had UCD as the out of hours practise.

Knine

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Really, whereabouts in Dublin? We had an emergency with a pet one weekend and tried everywhere in our vicinity, but all of them had UCD as the out of hours practise.

Our vets have an out of hour panel. I was just extremely unlucky with the vet on call the night we had our emergency.

tk123

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Really, whereabouts in Dublin? We had an emergency with a pet one weekend and tried everywhere in our vicinity, but all of them had UCD as the out of hours practise.

I'm in Glasnevin - vets is anicare.ie

Knine

tk123 wrote: »

I'm in Glasnevin - vets is anicare.ie

I think you might find that they use the vet panel. They are also my vet & were not available when we had an emergency.

tk123

Really? I know a good few people that have called them ooh and they've met them at the Botanic brach

sadie06

wolfpawnat wrote: »

All British bulldog bítches are supposed to have c-sections as it is dangerous for them to birth naturally due to the size of puppies heads these days. So before a bítch is even covered by a dog, that cost has to be factored, but that is indicative in the sale price too.

Sorry I have nothing useful to contribute to this thread, but I am aghast at this fact! Surely anyone breeding these dogs cannot be called reputable or ethical, no matter how much they love them. To purposefully put a bitch through an operation is just crazy, and if they really have been bred to the point of being unable to safely give birth naturally, they should just be allowed to die out.

Knine

tk123 wrote: »

Really? I know a good few people that have called them ooh and they've met them at the Botanic brach

Probably because they all take turns being on call.

Lemlin

wolfpawnat wrote: »

If a person talks about breeding, puppy farmers are going to have to come up because they are an integral part of the conversation. That is like having a conversation on sex education without mentioning pregnancy. It just cannot happen.

Since I am related and close to people in many aspects of this area, I can honestly say, not one of them has made notable profit from ethical breeding practises. Some profit, but nothing substantial.

The market was fairly flooded with Yorkies at the time. The 4 pups sold for 250, the 7 for 200 as was the recommended pricing going by scouring different sites, talking to other breeders, etc. Costs were wormer, microchipping, IKC registering, flea treatment, good quality food, vet visits for mother and pups, extra visits for the mother after the 7 as she was very ill, I counted in her neutering after the 7 from the money from pup sales. Checks for her and father before breedings, and petrol costs from driving them to their new homes. They viewed the puppies before sale at my home, but when it came time for the sale itself, I brought them to their new homes. I wanted to be sure they were in a suitable environment. In one case a pup was given back and she required vet care and neutering also. She was not sold on again.

I was living in a very remote part of West Kerry, my nearest vet was one of the only small animal one west of Tralee, and as such charged substantially more than I had paid before I moved there. Good quality food for 7 little mouths is expensive enough, no, it was nothing near the cost for if I had Rotties or Labs, but still, you get out of a pup what you put into it.

The price charged was indicative of the average sale price of that time. My dogs were not show dogs so I could only charge middle range prices.

No person on this green earth would do it for a loss, but it is something that requires a lot of love and personal interest to do right. And the gains are not great. It would never be something to do on the side as a handy profit maker if you catch my drift.

There is always a risk of C-Section which is expensive. All British bulldog bítches are supposed to have c-sections as it is dangerous for them to birth naturally due to the size of puppies heads these days. So before a bítch is even covered by a dog, that cost has to be factored, but that is indicative in the sale price too.

I just find it tiring that when speaking about pups you automatically see statements on here like “Only puppy farmers could ever really profit from it”. That to me is incorrect and this conversation is about reputable breeders, not puppy farmers so there’s no need to continually mention them. I’ve spoken to plenty of people involved in breed clubs and the IKC who make a profit from pups and wouldn’t be seen as puppy farmers. I myself have a huge disdain for puppy farmers so don’t for a second think I am sticking up for them. I am not. But I also have a huge disdain for this idea that the majority of reputable breeders are not making some profit from breeding their dogs, if they are doing so regularly. They wouldn’t be breeding regularly otherwise. After all, any person who has had a litter of pups knows the work involved and people wouldn’t be doing that regularly unless there was some reward.

Whatever about your own experience of breeding, and I would note two things – 1) you, again like Knine, have attempted to include costs which were not actually related to the cost of breeding your pups e.g. neutering 2) you still haven’t given a breakdown of the costs incurred in monetary values. Like I said above, you see people mention things like worming and flea treatment like they are huge costs. 100ml of Drontal Worming Solution will last most litters until 8 weeks and it is €26. Flea treatment is €3 to €4 per pup. So, for a litter of seven pups, worming and flea treatment would have cost you €54 max. Do you own the father that you also paid for his health checks? Can I ask what food you fed? I fed my pups on Skinners Field and Trial Puppy and also raw food. I would, to be honest, struggle to see a litter of seven Yorkies getting through two premium bags of food which, at most, would be €65 a bag if you don’t buy online.

As I said above and you ignored, a point that was also ignored earlier when I made it, are you honestly trying to tell me that a person who has, say, five to nine or ten Labrador pups, has costs per litter of €3000 to €6000 so they are making no substantial profit whatsoever?

I presume it depends on your own opinion re what is "substantial" but I certainly feel they are making some noteworthy profit that they continue to breed regularly.

*please note I use the word regularly throughout so I am not referring to people who breed say, once, to get a pup from their own dog.

Knine

As a reputable breeder I only breed from high quality dogs. I choose to show my dogs to their Irish titles & as such the costs of this are reflected in my puppies prices. Simply it costs money to breed excellent dogs. If I did not spend money showing my pups would be worth much less.

Other costs not mentioned - waste disposal - huge amounts from cleaning up after my puppies who are reared in the house. 10 weeks x approx 10 euro.

Heat lamp purchase & costs of running

Whelping pen & rails

Pregnancy Scan for mother - € 55

Vet check 45 euro

Newborn pack - gloves, lubricant, Nutridrops, heatpad, scales. I could be here all day.

Lemlin I have seen your posts about breeding & selling unregistered dogs. You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about people making profit. Tell me so how much profit I made on 2 pups x 500 each? I made a huge loss actually. Even if there had been no c-section I would not have covered my costs. The joys of dog breeding.

tk123

Knine wrote: »

Probably because they all take turns being on call.

No it was the owner - he lives around the corner

Knine

tk123 wrote: »

No it was the owner - he lives around the corner

But if he is not around it will be a panel vet unfortunately. I was assured a vet would be available but it was not the case. So at 4am I had to drive a considerable distance with a bitch in serious trouble. I am 5 minutes drive from my own branch.

tk123

Knine wrote: »

But if he is not around it will be a panel vet unfortunately. I was assured a vet would be available but it was not the case. So at 4am I had to drive a considerable distance with a bitch in serious trouble. I am 5 minutes drive from my own branch.

(EDIT - sorry for going OT)

oppenheimer1

The idea that a reputable breeder can't make a small profit or break even on breeding is absurd. I don't think anyone is arguing responsible breeding is a goldmine, but the nonsense that the costs far outweigh the returns simply isn't true. Its not fair to add in show costs unless the breeder is only attending shows to increase the value of the resultant pups. Other wise its just a hobby.


If it was true then there would be no responsible breeding because it doesn't make any sense for someone to subsidise the cost of another family's pet.

Knine

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The idea that a reputable breeder can't make a small profit or break even on breeding is absurd. I don't think anyone is arguing responsible breeding is a goldmine, but the nonsense that the costs far outweigh the returns simply isn't true. Its not fair to add in show costs unless the breeder is only attending shows to increase the value of the resultant pups. Other wise its just a hobby.


If it was true then there would be no responsible breeding because it doesn't make any sense for someone to subsidise the cost of another family's pet.

Of course it is fair that dogs from top winning parents cost more. There is far too much irresponsible breeding. Add up the figures of what it cost me on my last litter & you will see it was a loss without adding in any show costs or flights to different countries looking for a stud dog.

Often the stud fee well exceeds the price of a pup. We don't all use or own dogs or the next door neighbour's because it happens to be the same breed.

Do you know also the amount of time it takes to rear a litter of puppies until they go to new homes? Now I'm not talking about puppies out in a shed either.

oppenheimer1

Knine wrote: »

Of course it is fair that dogs from top winning parents cost more. There is far too much irresponsible breeding. Add up the figures of what it cost me on my last litter & you will see it was a loss without adding in any show costs or flights to different countries looking for a stud dog.

Often the stud fee well exceeds the price of a pup. We don't all use or own dogs or the next door neighbour's because it happens to be the same breed.

Do you know also the amount of time it takes to rear a litter of puppies until they go to new homes? Now I'm not talking about puppies out in a shed either.

Well then you should increase the price of your pups. Everyone who runs a business should be able to have a small profit at the end of the day for the hard work they put in.

Knine

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Well then you should increase the price of your pups. Everyone who runs a business should be able to have a small profit at the end of the day for the hard work they put in.

I only breed when I want a puppy to continue my line & I am certainly not running a business but I would agree raising a litter is extremely hard work.

Lemlin

Knine wrote: »

As a reputable breeder I only breed from high quality dogs. I choose to show my dogs to their Irish titles & as such the costs of this are reflected in my puppies prices. Simply it costs money to breed excellent dogs. If I did not spend money showing my pups would be worth much less.

Other costs not mentioned - waste disposal - huge amounts from cleaning up after my puppies who are reared in the house. 10 weeks x approx 10 euro.

Heat lamp purchase & costs of running

Whelping pen & rails

Pregnancy Scan for mother - € 55

Vet check 45 euro

Newborn pack - gloves, lubricant, Nutridrops, heatpad, scales. I could be here all day.

Lemlin I have seen your posts about breeding & selling unregistered dogs. You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about people making profit. Tell me so how much profit I made on 2 pups x 500 each? I made a huge loss actually. Even if there had been no c-section I would not have covered my costs. The joys of dog breeding.

Again, you continue to ignore my point. I have no problem with your pups cost reflecting the high quality or titles of your dogs. I have said that from the start on a number of occasions - you are free to charge what people pay and what you want to charge. Price isn't being debated here. Profit from breeding is.

My problem is that you include the cost of these show titles as an overhead of your breeding - Is it not your hobby to show the dogs as per my posts above? So you’d be doing it anyway and incurring this cost even without breeding. Unless you only show your dogs to increase their value for breeding which you said you do not.

As per my comparison above:

It's like a man with a good hunting or field trial dog. Those sports are the person's hobby yet they cost money. When the owner breeds their dog the pups are worth more if the dam/sire were good at the chosen sport. However, a man with a hunting dog would not see his expenses from hunting as an overhead of his breeding. These costs are part of his hobby: hunting. He would have those costs regardless of whether he bred the dog or not. Therefore they are not an overhead of breeding.

I have no bee in my bonnet about people making profit. I have a bee in my bonnet about people stating there are not reputable breeders out there who do make profits. They wouldn’t be breeding dogs regularly otherwise. Answer my query re the person with the Labradors which sell for €600 to €650? This is my third time asking the question and nobody appears willing to answer it. Simply because it proves my point.

What about a littler of pugs for example? I don’t know how many pups a pug would have but they are small dogs and sell for €1200+.

I have no doubt from what you’ve said that you didn’t make a profit from breeding. However, you have stated that you don’t breed regularly and only bred to get a pup for yourself. Therefore I am not speaking about you in my post above. I even stated that at the bottom.

As for my posts re breeding and registering, I don’t really see the need to bring them up but feel free to start a thread on registering if you wish to do so. Even one of the mods here has suggested that I start a thread on the topic of registering because they also have no faith in the IKC. I plan to do that when I get a chance to write up a decent post.

Knine

Lemlin wrote: »

Again, you continue to ignore my point. I have no problem with your pups cost reflecting the high quality or titles of your dogs. I have said that from the start on a number of occasions - you are free to charge what people pay and what you want to charge. Price isn't being debated here. Profit from breeding is.

My problem is that you include the cost of these show titles as an overhead of your breeding - Is it not your hobby to show the dogs as per my posts above? So you’d be doing it anyway and incurring this cost even without breeding. Unless you only show your dogs to increase their value for breeding which you said you do not.

As per my comparison above:



I have no bee in my bonnet about people making profit. I have a bee in my bonnet about people stating there are not reputable breeders out there who do make profits. They wouldn’t be breeding dogs regularly otherwise. Answer my query re the person with the Labradors which sell for €600 to €650? This is my third time asking the question and nobody appears willing to answer it. Simply because it proves my point.

What about a littler of pugs for example? I don’t know how many pups a pug would have but they are small dogs and sell for €1200+.

I have no doubt from what you’ve said that you didn’t make a profit from breeding. However, you have stated that you don’t breed regularly and only bred to get a pup for yourself. Therefore I am not speaking about you in my post above. I even stated that at the bottom.

As for my posts re breeding and registering, I don’t really see the need to bring them up but feel free to start a thread on registering if you wish to do so. Even one of the mods here has requested that I start a thread on the topic of registering because they also have no faith in the IKC. I plan to do that when I get a chance to write up a decent post.

Of course there are people out there making a profit. If they don't have titled dogs or field trial awards then in my opinion they are not reputable looking for huge amounts of money. Someone selling labs for €650 who are not out of quality dogs are chancers. Sure go look on a certain website & you will see the Pugs etc listed for huge prices. They will state from show winning grandparents etc but still look for the same as a Show kennels.

The same goes for these 'designer' crossbreeds. These are the people that make huge profits. If These websites were banned from selling dogs, there would be far less dogs in rescue.

DBB

Lemlin wrote: »

Even one of the mods here has requested that I start a thread on the topic of registering because they also have no faith in the IKC

That was me. And I suggested you start a thread, as opposed to requested you start a thread on the subject, rather than pulling other threads off topic.
Please be careful not to confuse the two.
I wouldn't want anyone thinking that I was trying to manipulate what's posted in this forum.

juniord

someone with pups for sale ASKING for more than they should expect to get have factored in haggling, usually when the pups are sold the price achieved is more like what it should be , its called living in the real world ,

Lemlin

Knine wrote: »

Of course there are people out there making a profit. If they don't have titled dogs or field trial awards then in my opinion they are not reputable looking for huge amounts of money. Someone selling labs for €650 who are not out of quality dogs are chancers. Sure go look on a certain website & you will see the Pugs etc listed for huge prices. They will state from show winning grandparents etc but still look for the same as a Show kennels.

The same goes for these 'designer' crossbreeds. These are the people that make huge profits. If These websites were banned from selling dogs, there would be far less dogs in rescue.

Again, can we stick to reputable breeders please. I've no wish to discuss puppy farmers. Of course they are making a profit. That's what they breed to do. We are discussing reputable breeders making a profit from regularly breeding.

You've actually chosen to ignore all of my post above with your response so I'll post it again and I've bolded the important parts for reference:

Again, you continue to ignore my point. I have no problem with your pups cost reflecting the high quality or titles of your dogs. I have said that from the start on a number of occasions - you are free to charge what people pay and what you want to charge. Price isn't being debated here. Profit from breeding is.

My problem is that you include the cost of these show titles as an overhead of your breeding - Is it not your hobby to show the dogs as per my posts above? So you’d be doing it anyway and incurring this cost even without breeding. Unless you only show your dogs to increase their value for breeding which you said you do not. As per my comparison above:



I have no bee in my bonnet about people making profit. I have a bee in my bonnet about people stating there are not reputable breeders out there who do make profits. They wouldn’t be breeding dogs regularly otherwise. Answer my query re the person with the Labradors which sell for €600 to €650? This is my third time asking the question and nobody appears willing to answer it. Simply because it proves my point.

What about a littler of pugs for example? I don’t know how many pups a pug would have but they are small dogs and sell for €1200+.

I have no doubt from what you’ve said that you didn’t make a profit from breeding. However, you have stated that you don’t breed regularly and only bred to get a pup for yourself. Therefore I am not speaking about you in my post above. I even stated that at the bottom.

As for my posts re breeding and registering, I don’t really see the need to bring them up but feel free to start a thread on registering if you wish to do so. Even one of the mods here has requested that I start a thread on the topic of registering because they also have no faith in the IKC. I plan to do that when I get a chance to write up a decent post.

I'd also note its now my fourth time posting that question re the Labradors. It's not going to go away you know.

I can't remember how many times now I have asked you to clarify if showing dogs is your hobby and not been able to attain a straight answer.

Lemlin

DBB wrote: »

That was me. And I suggested you start a thread, as opposed to requested you start a thread on the subject, rather than pulling other threads off topic.
Please be careful not to confuse the two.
I wouldn't want anyone thinking that I was trying to manipulate what's posted in this forum.

My apologies. I will edit the post.

Austmcc

Adopt from a rescue! i really dont understand buying dogs.If i had puppies id give them away for free to good homes. there are so many dogs in shelters, its sad. i kno wthere is still usually an adoption fee but still it is a lot less than some of the prices ive read and you get the satisfaction of saving a dog from a small enough enclosure.

ShaShaBear

I'm starting to feel incredibly sorry for the OP, he's got about two posts in edgeways since this whole debate started, and he's likely not going to learn anything about Frenchies if there are people arguing about titles on labradors.

ShaShaBear

Austmcc wrote: »

Adopt from a rescue! i really dont understand buying dogs.If i had puppies id give them away for free to good homes. there are so many dogs in shelters, its sad. i kno wthere is still usually an adoption fee but still it is a lot less than some of the prices ive read and you get the satisfaction of saving a dog from a small enough enclosure.

Not everyone is in a position to adopt from a rescue, some rescues put hefty limitations on who they will give a dog to that are completely unrealistic, there is also the fact that cross-bred puppies in a pound or rescue have next to no health or temperament background, which is something you are guaranteed with a reputable and honest breeder.

A good, honest person who wants a doggie family member for life buying from a reputable, well-known breeder is not going to increase the influx of puppies and older dogs going into pounds and rescues.

Austmcc

I didnt say anything about decreasing the amount of dogs going into shelters. But any type of logic will say there are more and more going in. therefore we need people to adopt them so theres space for otherse to be taken care of.

I can just about understand what youre saying with a temperment issue and the like. But thats why you dont just go and adopt the dog. you spend a while walking it and visiting in the centre to get to know the dog. Paying ridiculous money for a puppy just because the parents are pedigree or some crap like that is ridiculous.

dogs are not objects that you spec out to maximum pedigree power. Theyre animals with thoughts that you will be spending a considerable amount of time with over many years.

Knine

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I'm starting to feel incredibly sorry for the OP, he's got about two posts in edgeways since this whole debate started, and he's likely not going to learn anything about Frenchies if there are people arguing about titles on labradors.

Very true. However I did give the op info yesterday on how to go about getting a puppy yesterday. The debate on prices of puppies might help someone wondering if the lab pup they are buying is actually worth the €650 price tag. If nobody is buying from back yard breeders it would mean less unwanted dogs - some with massive health issues as can be seen in previous threads.

wolfpawnat

sadie06 wrote: »

Sorry I have nothing useful to contribute to this thread, but I am aghast at this fact! Surely anyone breeding these dogs cannot be called reputable or ethical, no matter how much they love them. To purposefully put a bitch through an operation is just crazy, and if they really have been bred to the point of being unable to safely give birth naturally, they should just be allowed to die out.

We have only ourselves to blame, we have ruined them with selective breeding. Sure it is seen as more fashionable to have GSD with backs sloped so harshly they can barely run, when the breed used have a straight back. We are to blame. I love bulldogs, but they are ruined

Lemlin wrote: »

I just find it tiring that when speaking about pups you automatically see statements on here like “Only puppy farmers could ever really profit from it”. That to me is incorrect and this conversation is about reputable breeders, not puppy farmers so there’s no need to continually mention them. I’ve spoken to plenty of people involved in breed clubs and the IKC who make a profit from pups and wouldn’t be seen as puppy farmers. I myself have a huge disdain for puppy farmers so don’t for a second think I am sticking up for them. I am not. But I also have a huge disdain for this idea that the majority of reputable breeders are not making some profit from breeding their dogs, if they are doing so regularly. They wouldn’t be breeding regularly otherwise. After all, any person who has had a litter of pups knows the work involved and people wouldn’t be doing that regularly unless there was some reward.

Is there profit, yes. Is there substantial profit, no. Not if you think of it as a job, comparing hours work to money left after all expenses are incurred. I would never deny that.

Lemlin wrote: »

Whatever about your own experience of breeding, and I would note two things – 1) you, again like Knine, have attempted to include costs which were not actually related to the cost of breeding your pups e.g. neutering 2) you still haven’t given a breakdown of the costs incurred in monetary values. Like I said above, you see people mention things like worming and flea treatment like they are huge costs. 100ml of Drontal Worming Solution will last most litters until 8 weeks and it is €26. Flea treatment is €3 to €4 per pup. So, for a litter of seven pups, worming and flea treatment would have cost you €54 max. Do you own the father that you also paid for his health checks? Can I ask what food you fed? I fed my pups on Skinners Field and Trial Puppy and also raw food. I would, to be honest, struggle to see a litter of seven Yorkies getting through two premium bags of food which, at most, would be €65 a bag if you don’t buy online.

It was over 7 years ago, I did not shop online. Her medical procedures were a direct result of her pregnancy, so yes, it is part of the costs. Her neutering, I used the profit to pay for, she earned it, she reaped benefits from it. I also, like Knine, added associated costs, rather than just direct costs. To me that is like selling a product in a shop, you buy in the product from a wholesaler, but when calculating a price to sell at, things such as rent and electricity costs have to be thought of too, if you catch my meaning

I owned the father, so yes, I always kept him checked too.

I used Burns puppy food. It was expensive, but great quality IMO. I also made sure to give a small bag with the pups to new owners, it was an added unnecessary cost, but I wanted the pups to transition nicely.

Lemlin wrote: »

As I said above and you ignored, a point that was also ignored earlier when I made it, are you honestly trying to tell me that a person who has, say, five to nine or ten Labrador pups, has costs per litter of €3000 to €6000 so they are making no substantial profit whatsoever?

Personally I have never seen a non showing lab go for over 350. But then again, I was not in that particular circle and would know very little about them. After care and the like, there would be profit, but again for the hours poured in, it is nothing of great note.

Lemlin wrote: »

I presume it depends on your own opinion re what is "substantial" but I certainly feel they are making some noteworthy profit that they continue to breed regularly.

I don't believe in regular (over once a year) breeding personally, but even at once a year, you would make some money, that's obvious, but again, for hours invested, nothing great.

ShaShaBear

Austmcc wrote: »

I didnt say anything about decreasing the amount of dogs going into shelters. But any type of logic will say there are more and more going in. therefore we need people to adopt them so theres space for otherse to be taken care of.

I can just about understand what youre saying with a temperment issue and the like. But thats why you dont just go and adopt the dog. you spend a while walking it and visiting in the centre to get to know the dog. Paying ridiculous money for a puppy just because the parents are pedigree or some crap like that is ridiculous.

dogs are not objects that you spec out to maximum pedigree power. Theyre animals with thoughts that you will be spending a considerable amount of time with over many years.

Sorry but having volunteered in many a rescue, walking the dog and spending time with it in that setting does not give you much of an idea what the dog is going to be like. They behave totally different in a pound or rescue setting than they do in a comfortable home. My partners family dog died, and they asked me to point them toward a good rescue because they love what I was doing. They regularly visited and got to know a lovely dog, who they later adopted. He was good with kids (clear from visits) and other dogs (that he was housed and walked with), he was good on the lead and was friendly to strangers.
Turns out he was none of those things and the fear and strangeness of being in the rescue centre caused him to alter his behaviour completely. He can't be allowed near young children, hates other dogs and had to be completely lead-trained all over again. He absolutely wrecked the house the first few weeks, even chewed through the crate that the rescue centre said he was completely used to using because he simply didn't want to be in it.

They love him to pieces and they are used to his quirks now, but no amount of visiting could have prepared them for what he behaved like, and I would not have blamed them if they felt he had to be returned after attacking two dogs, two children and chewing through a total of over €1000 in furniture and doors.
Foster programmes do help with this, but not all rescues adopt that approach.

wolfpawnat

Austmcc wrote: »

I didnt say anything about decreasing the amount of dogs going into shelters. But any type of logic will say there are more and more going in. therefore we need people to adopt them so theres space for otherse to be taken care of.

I can just about understand what youre saying with a temperment issue and the like. But thats why you dont just go and adopt the dog. you spend a while walking it and visiting in the centre to get to know the dog. Paying ridiculous money for a puppy just because the parents are pedigree or some crap like that is ridiculous.

dogs are not objects that you spec out to maximum pedigree power. Theyre animals with thoughts that you will be spending a considerable amount of time with over many years.

Another issue I have personally witnessed as well as hearing from others, is the God Complex some rescues have. Ridiculous demands that would make fostering a human child seem easier.

Some people want a particular breed, and as long as ethics are adhered to, I can't see a problem with responsible breeding. A lot of dogs in rescues are there because of irresponsible breeding leading to certain issues. Some dogs are there solely because they have genetic health issues resulting in the poor thing being too expensive to care for.

Personally, as soon as I leave my crappy apartment, my partner and I are hoping to adopt a greyhound and get a Wolfhound from a reputable breeder.