PTSB mortgage issues

MagicalMan

I need help/advice... I received a letter recently stating that PTSB are no long willing to assist us in our attempt to get ourselves back to a financially secure position were we can afford to pay all our financial obligations. We appreciate the bank have been very accommodating since we got our mortgage but this decision is going to puts us in arrears yet again.

Within a month of drawing down the mortgage I was made redundant and my wife was put on reduced hours. Since then we have had a constant battle to keep up with our entire financial obligations. At one point (3 years ago) we couldn’t afford any portion of our mortgage, then we were able to afford less than interest only, then interest only and most recently interest only + capital(for the last year) Our full mortgage is 1798 and we pay 1390.

We applied for an extension of our capital and interest period until September of 2014 as at that point we will have little or no childcare costs and we will be able to afford the full repayment. We filled in the SFS and this clearly stated that we were in deficit each month. However this was rejected, we appealed and this was also rejected. I can categorically state that we cannot afford the full repayment at present. We have made agreements with other lenders to reduce down the cost of our other borrowings to ensure we meet all of our obligations.

I can't understand why they won't extend this... We have constantly engaged with PTSB throughout the process. Both my wife and I have been lucky enough to get full time work and are so close to becoming fully compliant with the terms of our mortgage. We only need 10 month more but they have pulled the shutters down and are now playing hardball... This month they wanted the full amount but we only paid the previously agreed capital and interest payment....

I have exhausted all avenues of negotiations with PTSB, they have told me that I have no further option available bar paying the full amount. I have complained to they customer service department and raised a complaint with the ombudsman...

What happens if I continue to pay 1390 when they want 1798? Can they come after my house? Surely any judge would look at this and see how unreasonable the bank are being?

What are my options? Any help would be greatly received as I'm lost!

roro2

I can't tell you what they will do, except to say that there are plenty of others deeper in arrears with less prospects of turning things around. If you return to full repayments in 10 months, any court action is unlikely to be concluded at this stage (just my guess, assuming it has not started at this stage).

I presume PTSB's main issue is "We have made agreements with other lenders to reduce down the cost of our other borrowings to ensure we meet all of our obligations." It sounds like you have reduced the cost of other borrowings to a point where you can pay PTSB 1390 and not 1798. PTSB want you to reduce the cost of other borrowings to a point where you can pay 1798. PTSB (and other mortgage lenders) have publicly stated that mortgage repayments should take priority over other debts and, given that the mortgage is secured on the family home, this is not unreasonable. Although far from ideal, it seems that you have reached the end of the road with forbearance from PTSB and you should try and renegotiate with the other lenders, with a view to resuming higher repayments in 10 months. While these lenders may not agree, the consequences will be less that PTSB taking action against your family home.

MagicalMan

Thanks for the response roro2.

I really only have 2 other obligations. 1) a personal loan with AIB and 2) a Family loan.

1) a personal loan with AIB
AIB have agreed to reduce the amount to an affordable level and have stated that they aren't willing to go any further. If i miss payments i will be in breach of the restructure and they will demand the full monthly payments and when we can't afford that they will demand the full outstanding balance which we can't pay... They then sell on the debt to a debt collector who will be on the doorstep demanding payment( i have seen this exact thing happen with a colleague of mine)

2) a Family loan

Funny, it was PTSB's mortgage broker who advised (off the recorded) to get a family loan to be able to afford the full house price... My parents had taken a loan out to assist us (which i hadn't realised), this has to be paid... I'm in the awful position of either I pay my mortgage or my parents(they can't afford nor would i ask them to cover our payment)!

My point to PTSB is that if you extend the agreement by 10 months then everyone gets paid... They demand i pay them and not AIB. AIB will have similar cases whereby they are tell their mortgage customers to default on their personnel loans with PTSB! Its like robbing peter to pay Paul.

roro2

There will be a shortfall somewhere, but the consequences will still be less if you stop the payments to AIB, or make small payments if you can - even if this is less than their minimum.

As far as I'm aware they won't actually sell the debt (I'm not sure that they legally can) and any debt collection agency would just be an agent of AIB. If this was to happen, you do not have to engage with the agency and can insist on continuing to deal directly with AIB. This is my understanding, and someone else may be able to confirm. I'd be reluctant to listen to other people's scare stories here and suggest that this person's circumstances were very different to yours, and you also may have been given an embellished version of events. In the very unlikely event of something like this happening (it won't, in my opinion), simply close to door and call the Gardai if they don't leave. Don't let fear from someone else leave the door open to PTSB taking repossession action against your home.

An alternative would be to resume full mortgage repayments for a period, then make full repayments to AIB for a month or two, then resume full mortgage repayments again. Not my recommendation though - I'd still prioritise the mortgage repayments and remain engaging with all lenders, even if this is painful at times. All banks will have far worse cases than yours with borrowers who are ignoring them, but remember that you do have light at the end of the tunnel.

Trish56

OP.. I presume you are in arrears with PTSB and perhaps you are also in negative equity.

I would agree that your priority should be to make full mortgage repayments as you do not wish to put your home at risk.

Regarding AIB.. this is an unsecured loan and I would try and pay something off every month no matter how small. Perhaps the bank might restructure same over a longer period.

This may be of some help in dealing with the banks http://www.consumerhelp.ie/mortgage-arrears?gclid=CI-1voes5LoCFSV42wod4WIA4Q

MagicalMan

Trish56 - We are only €400 in arrears(just from this month as they reject our apply against the ending of our payment period)... but this will increase every month by €400 so quiet quickly can get out of control. The first month they requested the full payment (€1798) I managed to cobble together the money from family to ensure I didn’t go into arrears but this was a short term solution. We are in negative equity too but not as bad as it could be.

I know our mortgage isn't in too bad a position but our account can quiet quickly become an issue for us and the bank. That is why i can't get my head around the banks point blank refusing to discuss this any further.

Could they be deliberately targeting us as we live in a ‘desirable location’, which would probably appreciate in value over the next few years. I know someone in the same situation, same bank, apart from the fact that they are in a duplex in Tempalogue , and they received a 3 year interest only extension!

roro2

MagicalMan wrote: »

Could they be deliberately targeting us as we live in a ‘desirable location’, which would probably appreciate in value over the next few years. I know someone in the same situation, same bank, apart from the fact that they are in a duplex in Tempalogue , and they received a 3 year interest only extension!

They are "targeting" you as you are choosing to continue to pay down unsecured debt at the expense of your secured mortgage. It isn't more complicated than that.

Trish56

My advice Magical Man would be to write to the Chief Executive. You could also send a copy of your communication to Ciaran Lynch Chairman Oireachtas Finance Committee. At least you are making an effort to make your full repayment and are not currently in arrears.

MagicalMan

roro2 - I understand your point... but my unsecured debt payments, if paid to PTSB will not make up the difference in the mortgage... my issue is that they have given no alternative.... and are not willing to discuss this any further.

So i'm wondering why they haven't offered any other solution as part of the Mortgage Arrears Resolution Process as i believe they are supposed too.

roro2

Trish56 wrote: »

My advice Magical Man would be to write to the Chief Executive. You could also send a copy of your communication to Ciaran Lynch Chairman Oireachtas Finance Committee. At least you are making an effort to make your full repayment and are not currently in arrears.

The issue there is that the CEO explicitly told the Oireachtas Finance Committee that mortgage holders in difficulty must prioritise their mortgage repayments above all unsecured debt. And he made no apologies about it. Therefore I don't think that this approach will find much traction.