Return of deposit

aaakev

I am due to move out of the house iv been renting for the last year on sat. Spoke to the landlord today and aranged to meet here sat afternoon to give back the keys and get deposit back once the house is checked over but she says she wont be giving it back straight away because she has to make sure everything works. Iv been renting 10 years and never had this, iv always got my deposit back the day i was leaving once the landlord checked the place.

What should i do here?

Muahahaha

You should clean the property spick and span and then inspect it yourself, taking notes on any damages that are above and beyond normal wear and tear. Next you should photograph every square inch of it, using that days newspaper to prove the photos were taken on the day of you moving out.

Finally you should allow the landlady reasonable time to inspect the property, a week is sufficient for this to occur. Then ring her and ask for a time/place to meet to get your deposit back. All going well you'll get it back, If she claims there is damage that reduces your deposit and she isn't being truthful then you'll have valuable photographic evidence to dispute this at the PRTB.

Just because previous landlords inspected the place on the day of vacancy doesn't mean this one has to. She is within her rights to be allowed sufficient time to inspect and she obviously does not want to do it while you are still there which is understandable. A week is a fair and reasonable grace period and you should allow her that, in the event of a dispute at the PRTB you insisting on your deposit back immediately could be considered unreasonable which could cloud the judgement of the presiding officer.

djimi

Tell her that you are more than happy to wait around for the 2-3 hours (or whatever) that it takes to inspect the property fully, but that you see no reason why she cannot return the deposit at the same time you hand back the keys.

djimi

Muahahaha wrote: »

Finally you should allow the landlady reasonable time to inspect the property, a week is sufficient for this to occur.

A week? It doesnt take a week to look around a house to inspect that there is no damage.

And what is the OP supposed to do in the meantime? A lot of people need their deposit back so that they can move into their next property.

bumper234

I had this before and the LL tried to tell me it would take 2 weeks for him to send a cheque to me! I told him no way was he getting the keys back until i had my deposit back. Would the LL be willing to wait a week for his deposit while you live there checking that everything was ok and working. So many threads get started here where people move into accommodation and suddenly the shower has bad pressure or mould has started to come through the paint but none of this was mentioned when LL INSISTS on cash deposits. Tell LL that she can inspect the property all day if she likes and you will be willing to leave her there to inspect but you wish to have your deposit back that day, also insist on cash because cheque's can be cancelled. Lastly the other poster was right about the pictures take HUNDREDS (it costs you nothing and may save you lots) these will be your proof in case of future disputes.

Muahahaha

djimi wrote: »

A week? It doesnt take a week to look around a house to inspect that there is no damage.

And what is the OP supposed to do in the meantime? A lot of people need their deposit back so that they can move into their next property.

Mate I don't disagree with you that it doesn't take a week to inspect a property. My point was that in the event of a PRTB dispute the presiding officer will want to ascertain who was being reasonable or unreasonable in their behaviour in the dispute- with these types of things it can often be the case that one party acts unreasonably and this then compels the other party to do likewise and suddenly both parties are in a war of attrition over a dispute that could have been settled amicably and without wasting the time of the PRTB who have a 9 month long backlog of cases.

If the tenant was to go about demanding their deposit back within an hour then that might get the nose up of the presiding officer and things could go against the tenant even if they were technically in the right on any dispute on damages. The officers there see a lot of cases and I've no doubt in my mind they are sick to the back teeth of cases that were entirely avoidable if people had of acted reasonably.

The tenant landlord relationship,in Ireland is so full of distrust with both sides thinking that the other is out to get them, it's pretty obvious from the OP that this is also the case here so my advice was to tread carefully and for them to hold their fire before they end up shooting themselves in the foot. Maybe some would consider three days to be reasonable, maybe others 5 days but one thing is for certain- 7 days is more than reasonable and it could never be held against the OP that he was being unreasonable. You've also got to think that in a dispute one party often comes up with a reason as to why the inspection didn't take place on the day or the day after. Mitigating circumstances like the owner being away on holidays or attending a family funeral would be taken into account and allowed for, just as they are in the court system. That's why I said a week because no matter what the reason they have 7 days is plenty of time to get it sorted.

aaakev

thanks for the input. I have an update....

I spoke to the letting agent yesterday, i have a very good relationship with them so she filled me in on some info.

Originally when we signed the lease we signed it with the Landlords name on it. since then he and his wife have split and the house in in her name, she is now dealing with everything and as the sole owner is our landlady. she told the letting agent she does not have our deposit as her husband never gave it to her and she is relying on the new tenants deposit, which has been paid to the letting agent, to pay us back!

The new tenants have paid their deposit in full but have not signed the lease, they want to look around again once we have all our stuff out on Saturday.

As for the house, it is perfect and we are going to wash and hoover once our stuff is gone. the only problem was the sitting room carpet in front of the fire where a hot coal fell out and burned it, we told her this and we replaced the carpet on monday to save any hassle come inspection time.

I did say to the landlady she is welcome up for as long as she needs to inspect the place, she said she has to make sure all the appliances work ect, this is fine i have no problem with this but in my opinion this can all be done in a few hours, she disagrees....

djimi

I have a feeling that this issue is one where my emotive feelings override what is probably logical.

I dont agree with the agent that it takes more than a couple of hourse to inspect a property. Assuming its not a 40 room mansion I dont see why it would take any more than 2-3 hours tops to give every room a thorough inspection and ensure that all applicances and furniture etc are in good working order. Once a move out date is agreed upon this should include the inspection, and I see no reason why the tenant should not have their deposit returned within 24 hours at the very latest. If the date in question does not suit the landlord/agent then agree a different date that is suitable for both parties.

However, if, as Muahahaha has stated, the PRTB are happy to accept anything up to a week as being reasonable then so be it I guess. I think their definition of reasonable is very much at odds with what I would consider it to be, especially as I have said considering most tenants need that desposit to move into their new accomodation, but ultimately they are the ones who enforce the tenancy laws.

foggy_lad

Muahahaha wrote: »

Mate I don't disagree with you that it doesn't take a week to inspect a property. My point was that in the event of a PRTB dispute the presiding officer will want to ascertain who was being reasonable or unreasonable in their behaviour in the dispute- with these types of things it can often be the case that one party acts unreasonably and this then compels the other party to do likewise and suddenly both parties are in a war of attrition over a dispute that could have been settled amicably and without wasting the time of the PRTB who have a 9 month long backlog of cases.

PRTB cases are totally different to what goes on in the small claims and district courts. reasonable only plays a minimal part as the main burden is on whether the law has been complied with, there is mention of reasonable time for return of deposits but it would be reasonable for the LL to have the deposit ready on moving out day and only keep it a bit longer if thee was obvious damage that needed to be assessed for cost.

If the tenant was to go about demanding their deposit back within an hour then that might get the nose up of the presiding officer and things could go against the tenant even if they were technically in the right on any dispute on damages. The officers there see a lot of cases and I've no doubt in my mind they are sick to the back teeth of cases that were entirely avoidable if people had of acted reasonably.

I think the PRTB staff are capable of properly assessing all situations brought before them. You are basically saying that someone impartial who must be guided by the law may take a sudden dislike to people they don't know and put their position at risk by showing unjust bias and favour of a LL or tenant.

The tenant landlord relationship,in Ireland is so full of distrust with both sides thinking that the other is out to get them, it's pretty obvious from the OP that this is also the case here so my advice was to tread carefully and for them to hold their fire before they end up shooting themselves in the foot. Maybe some would consider three days to be reasonable, maybe others 5 days but one thing is for certain- 7 days is more than reasonable and it could never be held against the OP that he was being unreasonable. You've also got to think that in a dispute one party often comes up with a reason as to why the inspection didn't take place on the day or the day after. Mitigating circumstances like the owner being away on holidays or attending a family funeral would be taken into account and allowed for, just as they are in the court system. That's why I said a week because no matter what the reason they have 7 days is plenty of time to get it sorted.

You should read up on the PRTB tribunals as they show clearly that not having photos will go against you just as giving excuses like family funerals etc while unfortunate will not save a LL if they fail to inspect a property after a tenant has vacated!

Muahahaha

foggy_lad wrote: »

I think the PRTB staff are capable of properly assessing all situations brought before them. You are basically saying that someone impartial who must be guided by the law may take a sudden dislike to people they don't know and put their position at risk by showing unjust bias and favour of a LL or tenant.

This is Ireland and stranger things have happened, I think you're placing too much trust in the organs of the state to provide justice, there are plenty of examples where they haven't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_Molloy
Here is a case where the President of the Circuit Court ( someone supposedly with upmost impartiality and is bound by the law) presided over a murder trial and directed that the jury find the defendant not guilty of murdering a priest. It later turned out that the judge was friends with the defendant yet decided to not remove himself from a clear conflict of interest so he could get his pal off the hook. IMO if the President of the Circuit Court can let accused murderers walk away scot free without a proper trial then it is not such a big leap to think that injustices can (and often do) happen at lower hearings.

In my own opinion when dealing with any legal matter participants are well advised to tread lightly and to think carefully about their actions before they make waves. Official Ireland loves to label people as 'troublemakers'. I'm not saying that a PRTB officer would blatantly just find in favour of a landlord over a damages dispute where the counter claim is the tenant was unreasonable in their demands. It's a matter of degrees, what I am saying is that if you got the wrong officer on the wrong day they could easily decide to find in favour of the tenant but still allow a decent proportion of the deposit as damages, all because the tenant got their noses up by his actions. Better to show up to any hearing with a clean record, not doing so just gives the other side a stick to beat you with and if you get the wrong person then they might just decide you're a troublemaker who needs to be taught a lesson. If accused murderers can avoid a fair trial you can rest assured that the system is riddled with other minor injustices and whims of those who are empowered to make judgement calls.

runawaybishop

aaakev wrote: »

thanks for the input. I have an update....

I spoke to the letting agent yesterday, i have a very good relationship with them so she filled me in on some info.

Originally when we signed the lease we signed it with the Landlords name on it. since then he and his wife have split and the house in in her name, she is now dealing with everything and as the sole owner is our landlady. she told the letting agent she does not have our deposit as her husband never gave it to her and she is relying on the new tenants deposit, which has been paid to the letting agent, to pay us back!

The new tenants have paid their deposit in full but have not signed the lease, they want to look around again once we have all our stuff out on Saturday.

Unless she just took over the property this month she has no excuse for not having your deposit prepared to be returned to you, its very unprofessional of her (deposit escrow rabble rabble).

How long is she looking for to inspect the house before returning your deposit, shortly after the potential new tenants sign a lease? What happens if they do not sign, are you stuck waiting longer then for your deposit?

I think I would be advising that given what you have heard you'll be expecting your deposit after you both inspect the property together.

Shakti

-edit-
Even if the PRTB mediates in your favour you will still have to go to court to get your money,
Deposits should be kept in escrow and not gifted to LL's at the beginning of a tenancy.

aaakev

Im really not comfortable with this whole situation, i am going to call the agent and explain to her that i want it back on sat because of the stuff we now know but if she doesnt agree there is really SFA i can do about it!

djimi

Shakti wrote: »

Deposits should be kept in escrow and not gifted to LL's at the beginning of a tenancy.

I agree with this completely, and tbh it will go that way eventually. The current system is complete nonsense; its basically a lottery as to whether or not you will get your money back without waiting a year for the PRTB to rule in your favour.

OldNotWIse

aaakev wrote: »

thanks for the input. I have an update....

I spoke to the letting agent yesterday, i have a very good relationship with them so she filled me in on some info.

Originally when we signed the lease we signed it with the Landlords name on it. since then he and his wife have split and the house in in her name, she is now dealing with everything and as the sole owner is our landlady. she told the letting agent she does not have our deposit as her husband never gave it to her and she is relying on the new tenants deposit, which has been paid to the letting agent, to pay us back!

The new tenants have paid their deposit in full but have not signed the lease, they want to look around again once we have all our stuff out on Saturday.

As for the house, it is perfect and we are going to wash and hoover once our stuff is gone. the only problem was the sitting room carpet in front of the fire where a hot coal fell out and burned it, we told her this and we replaced the carpet on monday to save any hassle come inspection time.

I did say to the landlady she is welcome up for as long as she needs to inspect the place, she said she has to make sure all the appliances work ect, this is fine i have no problem with this but in my opinion this can all be done in a few hours, she disagrees....

With repsect and all...thats not your problem, its hers. I wouldnt budge until I get the deposit back. With you out the door its a lot easier to ignore your calls asking for it back. She's proabbly thinking even if you do go down the PRTB route, that will give her a year to get the money together. If she doesnt have it tell her you will accept a months free accommodation instead

Shakti

aaakev wrote: »

Im really not comfortable with this whole situation, i am going to call the agent and explain to her that i want it back on sat because of the stuff we now know but if she doesnt agree there is really SFA i can do about it!

Sorry but I thought you were dealing with the LL directly, my fault.
So who has the deposit the LL or the agent?

Carpet diem

Don't hand back keys until you get deposit back in cash. Once your out these guys will have all the power and it could be weeks and PTRB cases later before you get some/all your deposit back.

It happened before with me - LL agreed everything was ok and he would transfer it. Then got an email stating faults and reasons why all of deposit not given back.

djimi

Just bear in mind that if you are going to withhold the keys, even in protest, then you are technically still living there and are liable to pay rent, which can be taken from the deposit if necessary.

aaakev

Moved out today and just got a txt off the agent saying full deposit will be returned on monday! Happy days!

The_Conductor

aaakev wrote: »

Moved out today and just got a txt off the agent saying full deposit will be returned on monday! Happy days!

You might post back on Monday to confirm receipt of deposit, and I'll close off your thread for you.

aaakev

Will do cheers

aaakev

Got my deposit of €1100 back in full at 10.30 last night. I met the estate agent and she said the landlord was trying to deduct money for th oven not being cleaned to her standards, some weeds on the back patio and missing lamp shades that were never there in the first place!! Agent basically told her she would loose in prtb and it would cost her more money in the end. Good result, i was worried it was going to turn into an ordeal when i found out she didnt have our deposit but the bew tennants moved in the day after we left so she got it together quickly from that!

Thanks for the advice along the way folks, much appriciated!

djimi

Fair play to the estate agent; its nice to hear stories like that rather than the ugly side of deposit retention.

frag420

aaakev wrote: »

Got my deposit of €1100 back in full at 10.30 last night. I met the estate agent and she said the landlord was trying to deduct money for th oven not being cleaned to her standards, some weeds on the back patio and missing lamp shades that were never there in the first place!! Agent basically told her she would loose in prtb and it would cost her more money in the end. Good result, i was worried it was going to turn into an ordeal when i found out she didnt have our deposit but the bew tennants moved in the day after we left so she got it together quickly from that!

Thanks for the advice along the way folks, much appriciated!

Get that agent a pint or a fruit based drink if ita a lady ha ha!!

The_Conductor

Nice to hear of cases where everything works out.
Pleased for you OP.

Thread closed.