Lack of new routes at Cork airport

skallywag

roundymac wrote: »

How do you make that out?

Well AL's Heathrow slots are probably one of the most desirable things that it possesses in IAG's eyes, and hence I would consider it possible that the current ORK - LHR slots could be resigned within IAG somewhere else, with Cork losing out. Of course perhaps the slots are being preserved somehow as part of the deal, who knows.

roundymac

BA does big business with connecting passengers out of Cork, why does everyone assume that there is more profitable routes besides the Ireland to LHR ones.

skallywag

Agree with you completely, the routes themselves are very lucrative in their own right.

The fact still remains though that LHR slots are like hens teeth, and hence I think it's pretty prudent to expect some impact here all things considered.

notharrypotter

why does everyone assume that there is more profitable routes besides the Ireland to LHR ones.

and

the routes themselves are very lucrative in their own right.

Because both statements are true.

Yes the routes are lucrative.
Yes there is a "better" use for the landing slot.

For Example.
An A321 operated by Aer Lingus carry's about 200 passengers with say 10% business class.
An B777 operated by British Airways carry's 300+ passengers with say 10% business class.

As seen by the loss of the FlyBe routes from Waterford viable routes can be sacrificed when there is a better "return" elsewhere.
Based on likely business fares that extra 10 or so passengers could be very lucrative.

Also an element of truth in the statement.

I think it's pretty prudent to expect some impact here all things considered.

But I must emphasis there is an element of truth.

Currently everyone is putting forward their pet theory as to what will happen.
So now we wait.

shnaek

skallywag wrote: »

Of course perhaps the slots are being preserved somehow as part of the deal, who knows.

Is it possible to do that? To sell someone something and then say "but you have to do x?"

skallywag

shnaek wrote: »

Is it possible to do that? To sell someone something and then say "but you have to do x?"

Well the government will apparently be 'seeking assurances' before any deal will be officially accepted. Then again, commitments can always be reneged on in any case. I heard on the news that AL have 24 slots in total into LHR, I think that just 4 of those are from Cork if I am correct?

namloc1980

skallywag wrote: »

Well the government will apparently be 'seeking assurances' before any deal will be officially accepted. Then again, commitments can always be reneged on in any case. I heard on the news that AL have 24 slots in total into LHR, I think that just 4 of those are from Cork if I am correct?

4 from Cork, 3 from each of Belfast and Shannon and the rest Dublin.

JCX BXC

Does EI have 14 flights from DUB-LHR daily?

namloc1980

Carnacalla wrote: »

Does EI have 14 flights from DUB-LHR daily?

Up to 14. They don't run all slots every day due to varying demand etc. Just checking their website and they run average of 13 flights per day in the summer months. It varies in winter between 11-13.

Also to note is that BA fly 7/8 per day from DUB-LHR. So if the takeover happens that's IAG with over 20 LHR slots from DUB. Interesting.

blindsider

skallywag wrote: »

Well the government will apparently be 'seeking assurances' before any deal will be officially accepted. Then again, commitments can always be reneged on in any case. I heard on the news that AL have 24 slots in total into LHR, I think that just 4 of those are from Cork if I am correct?

Because this shower (Govt) never reneged on a promise, like the last shower, and the shower before that......

e.g. "debt free Cork Airport" LMAO.

They have a neck like a jockey's b0llyx to be asking for 'assurances'.

I'd say the bould Willie Walsh is laughing at their 'request for assurances'!

rebs23

Interesting article here in relation to the IAG takeover bid for Aer Lingus. Maybe I am being overly optimistic but I think the deal could be very good for Cork Airport. No capacity constraints, better linkages, etc??

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/heathrow-slots-key-if-iag-wants-to-get-aer-lingus-deal-airborne-1.2084294

JCX BXC

rebs23 wrote: »

Interesting article here in relation to the IAG takeover bid for Aer Lingus. Maybe I am being overly optimistic but I think the deal could be very good for Cork Airport. No capacity constraints, better linkages, etc??

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/heathrow-slots-key-if-iag-wants-to-get-aer-lingus-deal-airborne-1.2084294

I have to disagree. BA have a very very small presence outside of London. They only operate from LGW due to slot constraints at LHR.

Iberia are again, very very primarily focused on the one hub, Madrid is minimal. By minimal I mean they have 6 routes from the countries second biggest city, Barcelona.

Aer Lingus' presence could (and probably will) be completely or almost completely limited to Dublin

Zonda999

I think it would depend really. Vueling, IAG's low cost carrier has many operating bases.

I'm not sure about the proppects for Aer Lingus after an IAG Takeover from a Cork point of view. I think the Heathrow link is completely safe. Thats a money maker for sure and I don;t fear for its future at all.

I am in favour of this takeover on principle but I do wonder about the other Aer Lingus stable routes out of Cork though, especially Amsterdam (Double daily) and Paris (At least 1x daily). The codeshare with KLM on the Amsterdam route gives a good alternative to Heathrow out of Cork. There is no codeshare on the Paris route but it does give plenty interline connection options also. The KLM codeshare would disappear almost immediately after this apparently.

Bussywussy

Zonda999 wrote: »

I think it would depend really. Vueling, IAG's low cost carrier has many operating bases.

I'm not sure about the proppects for Aer Lingus after an IAG Takeover from a Cork point of view. I think the Heathrow link is completely safe. Thats a money maker for sure and I don;t fear for its future at all.

I am in favour of this takeover on principle but I do wonder about the other Aer Lingus stable routes out of Cork though, especially Amsterdam (Double daily) and Paris (At least 1x daily). The codeshare with KLM on the Amsterdam route gives a good alternative to Heathrow out of Cork. There is no codeshare on the Paris route but it does give plenty interline connection options also. The KLM codeshare would disappear almost immediately after this apparently.

I dont think the KLM codeshare will disappear,they will give KLM a little slice of the pie because there is no way in hell IAG will be inviting KLM onto those routes on what will be their turf.I think the Cork/heathrow slot debate is a bit silly,if IAG want to free up slots they have much more leeway with freeing up slots on domestic UK routes by using a larger aircraft like they do,the cork/heathrow gives a better yield than some of their own domestic routes and along with the slots that IAG will get back automatically when the Virgin Little Red (operated by aer lingus) operation ends soon.

Im on the fence with this one,while i don't fear job losses as Aer Lingus has already leaned up significantly over the years and continues to do so.Iberia had job losses but that was a state run loss making basket case and as far as i know there was no compulsory ones.I think its a strategic move anyhow,it will be better to be part of an alliance in the event of an economic downtown and a potential hostile takeover/asset strip which would be dismal.

Another one is I think Willie Walsh does realise the Cork Potential,I think he had a good few routes when he was in charge of aer lingus
now if they could start a JFK route it would be great,there's surely enough companies/people willing to use a 3 a week service,granted theres no pre-clearance but iv'e often flown to US without it,even from Dublin last year and had no problems at other side,if its timed right it will work

can the slots be offloaded to a government owned holding company????

namloc1980

Bussywussy wrote: »

I dont think the KLM codeshare will disappear,they will give KLM a little slice of the pie because there is no way in hell IAG will be inviting KLM onto those routes on what will be their turf.I think the Cork/heathrow slot debate is a bit silly,if IAG want to free up slots they have much more leeway with freeing up slots on domestic UK routes by using a larger aircraft like they do,the cork/heathrow gives a better yield than some of their own domestic routes and along with the slots that IAG will get back automatically when the Virgin Little Red (operated by aer lingus) operation ends soon.

Im on the fence with this one,while i don't fear job losses as Aer Lingus has already leaned up significantly over the years and continues to do so.Iberia had job losses but that was a state run loss making basket case and as far as i know there was no compulsory ones.I think its a strategic move anyhow,it will be better to be part of an alliance in the event of an economic downtown and a potential hostile takeover/asset strip which would be dismal.

Another one is I think Willie Walsh does realise the Cork Potential,I think he had a good few routes when he was in charge of aer lingus
now if they could start a JFK route it would be great,there's surely enough companies/people willing to use a 3 a week service,granted theres no pre-clearance but iv'e often flown to US without it,even from Dublin last year and had no problems at other side,if its timed right it will work

can the slots be offloaded to a government owned holding company????

KLM codeshare will go alright. British Airways/IAG are part of the One World Alliance whereas KLM are part of Skyteam. They don't code share across alliances.

Bussywussy

I think that would be a massive Own goal inviting KLM in

JCX BXC

Bussywussy wrote: »

I think that would be a massive Own goal inviting KLM in

But if they maintained the route, would their be a market for the KLM service.

KCAccidental

Carnacalla wrote: »

But if they maintained the route, would their be a market for the KLM service.

There definitely would be. The AMS service is well used to connect to Long Haul destinations.

JCX BXC

KCAccidental wrote: »

There definitely would be. The AMS service is well used to connect to Long Haul destinations.

A sufficent market? I think your over-estimating KLM. KLM decided just this year to go into belfast, a market that never had connections through AMS before (Easy Jet dont offer connections). The cork market is far smaller, which leads me to believe KLM will not offer a service to cork. Maybe DUB, but not cork.

KCAccidental

Carnacalla wrote: »

A sufficent market? I think your over-estimating KLM. KLM decided just this year to go into belfast, a market that never had connections through AMS before (Easy Jet dont offer connections). The cork market is far smaller, which leads me to believe KLM will not offer a service to cork. Maybe DUB, but not cork.

KLM go into small airports like Humberside, Newcastle, Bristol, Cardiff and Leeds/Bradford to enable connection thru AMS.

If IAG pulled out or cut the codeshare I would imagine KLM would have no problem throwing Fokker 70 at least on the route to continue the strong business they get from Cork.

JCX BXC

KCAccidental wrote: »

KLM go into small airports like Humberside, Newcastle, Bristol, Cardiff and Leeds/Bradford to enable to connection to AMS.

If IAG pulled out or cut the codeshare I would imagine KLM would have no problem throwing Fokker 70 at least on the route to continue the strong business they get from Cork.

See, I would. They had a long time until they put the Fokker 70 in BHD, why would they immediately jump into ORK?

KCAccidental

Carnacalla wrote: »

See, I would. They had a long time until they put the Fokker 70 in BHD, why would they immediately jump into ORK?

technically they are already in Cork due to the codeshare to be fair and they get a lot of business from it. 85,000 passengers per year travel the route according to the CSO. Would love to know the percentage of people on that flight who are on KLM tickets

JCX BXC

KCAccidental wrote: »

technically they are already in Cork due to the codeshare to be fair and they get a lot of business from it. 85,000 passengers per year travel the route according to the CSO. Would love to know the percentage of people on that flight who are on KLM tickets

Would KLM be willing to compete with BA? People are always willing to do un-protected transfers.

KCAccidental

Carnacalla wrote: »

Would KLM be willing to compete with BA? People are always willing to do un-protected transfers.

that's the golden question i suppose!

roundymac

Carnacalla wrote: »

A sufficent market? I think your over-estimating KLM. KLM decided just this year to go into belfast, a market that never had connections through AMS before (Easy Jet dont offer connections). The cork market is far smaller, which leads me to believe KLM will not offer a service to cork. Maybe DUB, but not cork.

Rubbish, if this were the case how is it that EI are able to sustain ORK-AMS twice daily all year around.

JCX BXC

roundymac wrote: »

Rubbish, if this were the case how is it that EI are able to sustain ORK-AMS twice daily all year around.

You are not getting my point.
If IAG keep the AMS route but don't allow connections, I don't think KLM will come on the route. Take Belfast as an example.

roundymac

Carnacalla wrote: »

You are not getting my point.
If IAG keep the AMS route but don't allow connections, I don't think KLM will come on the route. Take Belfast as an example.

Yes that would be correct but WW has already stated that EI will operate as a stand alone airline so I can't see this being the case.

Cork's decline is highlighted in the independent today.

http://www.independent.ie/business/more-than-a-million-fliers-bypass-120m-cork-airport-30975357.html

Fabio

I can really hear the our politicians in Cork getting loud about this...

podmu80

Crazy to think that 500,000 people from Cork fly with Ryanair from other Airports.
A fantastic piece of infrastruture that it seems will never be given the chance to maximize its potential.
Is the only solution a similar deal to the one that Shannon got? Because its impossible to see the powers that be agreeing to that. Is there any alternative plan that could be put in place, or are the DAA really not that bothered and would actually prefer the slide to continue?