Lack of new routes at Cork airport

Fabio

Maybe, just maybe, the airport are thinking that if this controversery continues into election season then the issue of wrenching the airport out of the hands of the DAA will become a major political one which can cost votes. If so then a result on that then, rather than now, is more likely with regards to making the airport independent and, thus, more competitive.

Ludo

TINA1984 wrote: »

Just pricing flights for my next jaunt to my usual destination, 20 euro return from Dublin, 98 euro return same destination and dates from Cork.

I'd try for other dates if possible...if not I would still fly from Cork even at that price. You are talking at LEAST 3 hours extra each way to fly from Dublin plus however much extra travel costs. Then there is the hassle of Dublin airport...ugh.

Of course if it is a family and 79 euro difference each then that MAY change things. But still price not the sole factor.

For example, I booked summer hols a few weeks ago for 4 of us. Cork worked out 260 more expensive than Dublin. I dont care though. Not dragging everyone to Dublin and then the crapiness of coming all the way back on the way home. We will be to home and back in bed within 45 mins of landing in Cork. We would still be in the arrivals hall in Dublin at that point...no thanks.

I'm obviously in a minority though :-)

JCX BXC

Fabio wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe, the airport are thinking that if this controversery continues into election season then the issue of wrenching the airport out of the hands of the DAA will become a major political one which can cost votes. If so then a result on that then, rather than now, is more likely with regards to making the airport independent and, thus, more competitive.

You may be overestimating it though.
For all of your corkonians, I think you need to start some sort of group to lobby the government and DAA to get cork free, because in fairness, ye have never made much of a noise before.

TINA1984

Ludo wrote: »

I'd try for other dates if possible...if not I would still fly from Cork even at that price. You are talking at LEAST 3 hours extra each way to fly from Dublin plus however much extra travel costs. Then there is the hassle of Dublin airport...ugh.

Of course if it is a family and 79 euro difference each then that MAY change things. But still price not the sole factor.

For example, I booked summer hols a few weeks ago for 4 of us. Cork worked out 260 more expensive than Dublin. I dont care though. Not dragging everyone to Dublin and then the crapiness of coming all the way back on the way home. We will be to home and back in bed within 45 mins of landing in Cork. We would still be in the arrivals hall in Dublin at that point...no thanks.

I'm obviously in a minority though :-)

Different folks, different strokes though it must be said my dates were non-negotiable. Clearly however given Ryanair's report on the numbers of Cork people using Dublin (which goes a long way to explaining the collapse in Cork Airports PAX in recent years, Cork people aren't flying less they're just flying from somewhere else).

This, in tandem with the success of the Aircoach and GOBE bus services in recent years shows that Cork's biggest threat isn't Shannon or the other Munster airports, it's the M8 and cheap flights.

I find it hard to believe previous posters assertions that the old terminal was so unfit for purpose that it wouldn't be feasible to rent it out to Ryanair. If they can utilise facilities all over Europe which were former military hangers and delapidated soviet-era buildings, then I reckon they'd be well able to make the old terminal fit for purpose. Seems like the refusal of the Airports management to refuse them access to it a few years ago looks a bigger and bigger blunder as time goes on.

Fabio

Giving the old terminal to Ryanair would deter any other airlines from coming in to the new one though because Ryanair would do to them what they did to Wizz Air and that sort of "competition", if it can be called that, is just not sustainable for Cork.

Fabio

Carnacalla wrote: »

You may be overestimating it though.
For all of your corkonians, I think you need to start some sort of group to lobby the government and DAA to get cork free, because in fairness, ye have never made much of a noise before.

You're dead right, we're not making enough noise here, we never do, about anything really. Cork is far too quiet on this.

JCX BXC

Fabio wrote: »

Giving the old terminal to Ryanair would deter any other airlines from coming in to the new one though because Ryanair would do to them what they did to Wizz Air and that sort of "competition", if it can be called that, is just not sustainable for Cork.

May I ask though, if the IAG bid goes through and EI reduce services from cork, what airline will cork have? IMO regional airports in Europe are very little if they don't have an LCC.

Masala

Carnacalla wrote: »

You may be overestimating it though.
For all of your corkonians, I think you need to start some sort of group to lobby the government and DAA to get cork free,

And what exactly will Cork do when 'free'??? Give free charges to every airline??? WEll that won't pay the bills?? I can't see this fascination of breaking from the DAA. At least they have a sugar daddy to keep the place open.

I'f Cork want to take on SNN ... They would want to have access to a slush fund like SNN. And where will they get that???

JCX BXC

Masala wrote: »

And what exactly will Cork do when 'free'??? Give free charges to every airline??? WEll that won't pay the bills?? I can't see this fascination of breaking from the DAA. At least they have a sugar daddy to keep the place open.

I'f Cork want to take on SNN ... They would want to have access to a slush fund like SNN. And where will they get that???

Fool yourself all you want. Shannon hasn't caused much of corks problems! If cork got free from the DAA and the debt written off, they would be at exactly the same level as Shannon. And this slush fund is completely non existent!

Its time to stop blaming other airports left right and center and stop making up defaming remarks towards them. You need to get cork going, get some preference for cork, try and get the debt wiped in the fourm of lobbying the government and setting up support groups etc.

Masala

Carnacalla wrote: »

Fool yourself all you want. Shannon hasn't caused much of corks problems! If cork got free from the DAA and the debt written off, they would be at exactly the same level as Shannon. And this slush fund is completely non existent!

Its time to stop blaming other airports left right and center and stop making up defaming remarks towards them. You need to get cork going, get some preference for cork, try and get the debt wiped in the fourm of lobbying the government and setting up support groups etc.

Where are the defaming remarks in my post?

Pitcairn

Here's the DAA's Chief Executive (Cork man Pádraig Ó Ríordáin) talking about Cork Airport at the Transport Committee.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/committees/?id=2015-02-10a.5&s=%22cork+airport%22#g47

Fabio

People are right that Cork needs Ryanair BUT by bringing them first they'll monopolise the roots and we'll be back to this debate in a couple of years.

As for the DAA, if it was not for the debt Cork would actually be making money every year, it's not actually unprofitable. That's the strange thing! A route to Dublin to be handy but relying on a PSO doesn't really cut it either. It'd help though.

SpaceTime

I find it odd though that the airlines don't seem to see that a flights from ORK, SNN and DUB actually compete. Ryanair does, but I don't think the others (particularly Aer Lingus) seem to comprehend this.

They just seem to treat the three airports as if they were entirely unaffected by each other so the Cork price is higher because there's no other airline competing on the Cork route. Then they sit there scratching their heads wondering why their 3X more expensive flight has no passengers.

Milly33

Well said

rebs23

Carnacalla wrote: »

Fool yourself all you want. Shannon hasn't caused much of corks problems! If cork got free from the DAA and the debt written off, they would be at exactly the same level as Shannon. And this slush fund is completely non existent!

Its time to stop blaming other airports left right and center and stop making up defaming remarks towards them. You need to get cork going, get some preference for cork, try and get the debt wiped in the fourm of lobbying the government and setting up support groups etc.

See article below and extract. At least people are openly declaring the unfair advantage that has been handed to Shannon.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-airport-lags-behind-as-air-traffic-levels-grow-312174.html

"DAA chairman Pádraig Ó Ríordáin told the committee Cork Airport was at a disadvantage compared to other airports following the separation of Shannon from the DAA, with €100m in debts written off, and its properties now generating substantial rent.

He said this freed Shannon to offer deals to airlines that Cork cannot do."

corkonion

The main Airport in Ireland is Dublin, it is in the capital and has flights to multiple destinations, Shannon is the only other international airport in Ireland that is growing its numbers and offers transatlantic flights, and it is also an independent airport that offers airlines good incentives to operate out of there.
Cork airport has become mainly a UK connection / and sun holiday regional airport. There does not seem to be any political will to change this and in reality there is probably no need for three international type airports in Ireland. We in Cork are just unlucky that the politicians from the last government choose to free up shannon airport at Corks expense, otherwise shannon would have become the wasteland airport that cork now is.

smurgen

the infrastructure is there like ffs,no excuses. currently we just have an asset (cork airport) that isn't reaching it's potential. there's nothing but red tape and a lack of will power stopping that airport from buzzing.

namloc1980

corkonion wrote: »

The main Airport in Ireland is Dublin, it is in the capital and has flights to multiple destinations, Shannon is the only other international airport in Ireland that is growing its numbers and offers transatlantic flights, and it is also an independent airport that offers airlines good incentives to operate out of there.
Cork airport has become mainly a UK connection / and sun holiday regional airport. There does not seem to be any political will to change this and in reality there is probably no need for three international type airports in Ireland. We in Cork are just unlucky that the politicians from the last government choose to free up shannon airport at Corks expense, otherwise shannon would have become the wasteland airport that cork now is.

I wouldn't agree that we were just unlucky. Limerick & Shannon politicians have always been much more effective at selling the Shannon poor mouth story than the sorry bunch we have down here. Cork politicians are some of the most ineffective in the country in promoting the needs of their local community.

CB19Kevo

What would the city/county population have to be to justify transatlantic flights?.
Strange to think JFK could not be served by Cork or is it just the problem of pre-clearance.

blindsider

The missing piece here is Inbound traffic.

Cork needs to be marketed as a European weekend (or holiday) destination.

Most unusually for a decent airport, it's 15 mins from the city centre (and 20 mins from e.g. Kinsale.)

Where are the busloads of tourists who will spend money in pubs, hotels, shops and restaurants?

Cork airport is a pimple on the ar$e of the DAA - they care nothing for it.

Until Cork has the freedom to appoint a sales person/team to go out and flog flights and accommodation, we're goosed.

Shannon stole a march on us and fair play to them. Our politicians should hang their heads in shame - complete dereliction of responsibility.

Spanish Eyes

blindsider wrote: »

The missing piece here is Inbound traffic.

Cork needs to be marketed as a European weekend (or holiday) destination.

Most unusually for a decent airport, it's 15 mins from the city centre (and 20 mins from e.g. Kinsale.)

Where are the busloads of tourists who will spend money in pubs, hotels, shops and restaurants?

Cork airport is a pimple on the ar$e of the DAA - they care nothing for it.

Until Cork has the freedom to appoint a sales person/team to go out and flog flights and accommodation, we're goosed.

Shannon stole a march on us and fair play to them. Our politicians should hang their heads in shame - complete dereliction of responsibility.

I am not from Cork and I totally agree with you.

You have West Cork, Kinsale, Cobh and the city, and much, much more on the doorstep of Cork airport. (you can see I like Cork!)

And it is marketing. But they cannot be ar$ed it seems.

So when all the jobs are gone, who will be protected? Yes, take a guess. Otherwise they would be all out to try and keep CA alive and busy for the good of the natives and visitors alike.

I wish you all well in the real capital. Shame the airport is not doing so well at the moment.

roundymac

Clare and Limerick TDs and Senators all on RTE today saying why EI should not be sold. Not a peep from the Cork bunch. I don't agree with them but at least they go out and try and do something about their airport.

JCX BXC

rebs23 wrote: »

See article below and extract. At least people are openly declaring the unfair advantage that has been handed to Shannon.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-airport-lags-behind-as-air-traffic-levels-grow-312174.html

"DAA chairman Pádraig Ó Ríordáin told the committee Cork Airport was at a disadvantage compared to other airports following the separation of Shannon from the DAA, with €100m in debts written off, and its properties now generating substantial rent.

He said this freed Shannon to offer deals to airlines that Cork cannot do."

The problem with that article is that it doesnt matter whether the Shannon development property portfolio are making millions or losing millions. It doesn't and shouldn't affect the airport either way.

Yes Shannon was freed, debt free from the DAA, and we fought long and hard for it. Try doing that in cork. All chat and no talk gets you nowhere. I believe Cork should at least get its debt wiped, if it makes a profit or loss after that is another story, but it should get the same deal as Shannon.

What I would watch is the deal Knock is getting. The councils are going to wipe their debt and even give them money to develope infrastructure. How's that for a deal?

Carnacalla

Carnacalla wrote: »

What I would watch is the deal Knock is getting. The councils are going to wipe their debt and even give them money to develope infrastructure. How's that for a deal?

Wow:pac: There getting a total of 9 million from seven councils...paid for with property tax from residents of those counties. Locals further support that airport by paying a departure fee.

Shannon got 100 million debt wiped out. They get a further yearly income from taxpayers property of 14 million a year, which helps undercut Knock and Cork. There deal is worth an estimated 300 million from the taxpayers from all over the country. The deal was the the epitome of uncompetitive and rewarded ineffeciency. The customers and locals of Shannon should of bailed out Shannon if they wanted to keep it open.

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2013/01/16/4031012-vital-talks-with-taoiseach-over-future-of-knock-airport---shannon-package-anticompetitive

I know people say politicians from the Shannon area moan alot but complaining about local people contributing there own money to Knock airport is even a bit much for you.

Cork has been sacrificed to keep Shannon airport open and Cork taxpayers are inadvertently helping to do it. There only realising it now when it was obvious two years ago. Cork politicians are shockingly quiet about it.

JCX BXC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wow:pac: There getting a total of 9 million from seven councils...paid for with property tax from residents of those counties. Locals further support that airport by paying a departure fee.

Shannon got 100 million debt wiped out. They got a further yearly income from taxpayers property of 14 million a year, to help undercut Knock and Cork. There deal is worth an estimated 300 million from the taxpayers all over the country.

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2013/01/16/4031012-vital-talks-with-taoiseach-over-future-of-knock-airport---shannon-package-anticompetitive

I know people say politicians from the Shannon area moan alot but complaining about local people contributing to Knock airport is even a bit much for you.

Cork is been sacrificed for Shannon airport and Cork taxpayers are helping to do it.

With that €10 development fee, it must feel like the people of the north west are being double charged

Shannon got a larger amount of debt wiped, but it is a larger airport. Its like expecting Leitrim country council to get the same amount of funding as Dublin county council. I don't know if you reference the property portfolio trying to troll or its just a case of extreme ignorance on your behalf. You should know well now at this stage that Shannon gets no use out of that 14million a year from the property, I have said it several times before. In fact, I even said it in the post that you quoted a part of.

Also, the deal has nothing to do with taxpayers, which you also knew well of. The 100million debt stayed with the DAA. The DAA bolstered the Shannon (and cork) traffic for years. Now Shannon has been let free, and its now corks turn. It made no difference to cork taxpayers tax or the governments expenditure as to whether Shannon got their debt wiped or not.

The high level of inaccuracy in your posts just show how bad your arguments are towards other airports, it also backs up the fact that I am in fact saying the truth.

Anyway I think (and you probably agree) that we shouldn't ramble on too long about Shannon vs Knock in a cork airport fourm my point was that knock would be getting money to Invest in its infrastructure, coming directly from the council. No other airport is getting or will get this, so why shouldnt cork argue this time instead of consistently bringing up the Shannon issue.

Rhys Essien

Can someone explain to me how Cork airport is crippled and is suffering with its €100m debt while T2 Dublin airport cost €600m and it has no effect on Dublin airport.Something does not add up here.

JCX BXC

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Can someone explain to me how Cork airport is crippled and is suffering with its €100m debt while T2 Dublin airport cost €600m and it has no effect on Dublin airport.Something does not add up here.

2 reasons.

1. The DAA took Aer Rianta in Shannon and used all their profits to fund the T2 in Dublin.

2. Dublin makes a nice profit, where as cork makes a loss, something further increased by the crippling debt.

Carnacalla

Carnacalla wrote: »

No other airport is getting or will get this, so why shouldnt cork argue this time instead of consistently bringing up the Shannon issue.

Its no deal, locals in the West/North West will pay that money with extra property tax. That is where Council money will be coming from. Knock has half the passengers as Shannon, If Knock were getting a real deal it would be 50 million(half of what Shannon got) directly from the taxpayer not just the locals.

I can't see Cork people willing to pay more property tax to keep Cork open, while there income tax helps to prop up Shannon. Fairness would be Cork also getting 100 million from the state and a massive property portfolio from the state to subsidise the airport.

JCX BXC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its no deal, locals in the West/North West will pay that money with extra property tax. That is where Council money will be coming from.

I can't see Cork people willing to pay more property tax to keep Cork open, while there income tax props up Shannon.

Now its clear that your trolling. "Their income tax props up Shannon"

The people of the north west aren't paying anything extra, that's for sure. Its some deal for Knock, free money from involuntary donations by everyone with a house in the north west . They get money to spend. Shannon doesn't get money to spend, Dublin doesn't get money to spend (but they get money from their profits and from Aer Rianta) and cork certainly don't get any money from the locals.

Masala

Carnacalla wrote: »

I don't know if you reference the property portfolio trying to troll or its just a case of extreme ignorance on your behalf. You should know well now at this stage that Shannon gets no use out of that 14million a year from the property, I have said it several times before. In fact, I even said it in the post that you quoted a part of.

Also, the deal has nothing to do with taxpayers, which you also knew well of. The 100million debt stayed with the DAA. The DAA bolstered the Shannon (and cork) traffic for years. Now Shannon has been let free, and its now corks turn. It made no difference to cork taxpayers tax or the governments expenditure as to whether Shannon got their debt wiped or not.

The high level of inaccuracy in your posts just show how bad your arguments are towards other airports, it also backs up the fact that I am in fact saying the truth.

Seriously man!! Are you for real...???

Sure yer man from the DAA referenced the Shannon Development rents and the help it gives the Airport!!!

You keep accusing posters of inaccuracies when all the time you spout the same mantra on SNN living of airport charges alone - literally. Of course you would love to see Cork free of the DAA knowing well that they don't have the means of supporting themselves like Shannon rents. Jeez... Who says you are peaking the truth... When u keep ignoring the Shannon Dev rents....?..