Lack of new routes at Cork airport

corkonion

Carnacalla wrote: »

Id be careful in believing that, look at BA and Iberia. They have almost no presence in Manchester and Barcelona and theres a hell of market there.

But they never had a presence in manchester, Iberia were almost broke,
They're not now!!
Walsh has already commented on this, saying that unlike Iberia, Aer Lingus is in a good place with a good cost base and good growth potential, unlike Iberia which needed total restructuring in order to simply survive,

roundymac

corkonion wrote: »

Willie Walsh, former Ceo of Aer Lingus and current Ceo of IAG, disagrees with his successors policy in Aer Lingus of filling planes ex Dublin by reducing availability in regional airports, he believes that this allows for competitors to gain a foothold in a competitive market and stunts the growth potential for the airline, sadly Dublin based TD's will veto the proposed takeover to Corks further detriment.

It's not just the Dublin based TDs you have to worry about, read what this Gob****e of a local TD has to say.
ww.irishexaminer.com/archives/2015/0309/ireland/mistake-to-write-off-airport-debt-td-317113.html

corkonion

roundymac wrote: »

It's not just the Dublin based TDs you have to worry about, read what this Gob****e of a local TD has to say.
www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2015/0309/ireland/mistake-to-write-off-airport-debt-td-317113.html

Haha, basically a "fine gael TD" thinks clearing cork airports €100 mil debt would not help the airport, but giving them €1 mil would help them to turn things around.... mother Ireland is raring them still.

roundymac

corkonion wrote: »

Haha, basically a "fine gael TD" thinks clearing cork airports €100 mil debt would not help the airport, but giving them €1 mil would help them to turn things around.... mother Ireland is raring them still.

How do these "fools" get elected?

keithclancy

corkonion wrote: »

Haha, basically a "fine gael TD" thinks clearing cork airports €100 mil debt would not help the airport, but giving them €1 mil would help them to turn things around.... mother Ireland is raring them still.

Putting out a fire with more Petrol makes total sense.

rebs23

roundymac wrote: »

It's not just the Dublin based TDs you have to worry about, read what this Gob****e of a local TD has to say.
ww.irishexaminer.com/archives/2015/0309/ireland/mistake-to-write-off-airport-debt-td-317113.html

Unbelievable stuff, what Cork constituency elected him? Why is he doing this and whose bidding is he doing?

kub

rebs23 wrote: »

Unbelievable stuff, what Cork constituency elected him? Why is he doing this and whose bidding is he doing?

A rural constituency in West Cork, hence the silliness, he might be better off concentrating on farming.

lostinsuperfunk

What a gobsh!te. Also someone needs to tell him that a blank cheque does not have an amount written on it.

Masala

What are the repayments by Cork Airport on the loan???? How much does it have to repay for the noew terminal???

Who does it pay... Direct to Bank or to the DAA????

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

kub wrote: »

A rural constituency in West Cork, hence the silliness, he might be better off concentrating on farming.

To be fair now, the urbanites of this country have conspired to elect some of the biggest eejits ever to set foot on Kildare St.

rebs23

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/no-silver-bullet-for-cork-airport-317855.html

Another good article on the state of Cork Airport and the potential impact it is having on direct investment into the region. We really need our politicians to do something about the debt, the unfair competition and the control of the Airport.

roundymac

Another Government TD living in cuckoo land. She wants to look again at handing the Old Terminal over to Ryanair.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/daa-chief-to-attend-cork-airport-meeting-317870.html#.VQE2TCjTOuw.facebook

JCX BXC

roundymac wrote: »

Another Government TD living in cuckoo land. She wants to look again at handing the Old Terminal over to Ryanair.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/daa-chief-to-attend-cork-airport-meeting-317870.html#.VQE2TCjTOuw.facebook

The terminal to Ryanair and daily flights to DUB in exchange? HA! She needs to get out of fairyland and educate herself. 189seater plane on a thin domestic route with an airline that offers no connecting flights? The only thing the flights would have going for them is their probable affordability, but not something that matters to the target market -business' in cork- if they cannot connect to the USA and elsewhere.

beer enigma

roundymac wrote: »

Another Government TD living in cuckoo land. She wants to look again at handing the Old Terminal over to Ryanair.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/daa-chief-to-attend-cork-airport-meeting-317870.html#.VQE2TCjTOuw.facebook

I wish these TDs would actually get up to speed on the facts and try to make a useful contribution to the future of Cork Airport rather than just trying to get publicity. Sadly the only thing the old terminal is good for is bulldozing.

.red.

Andip wrote: »

I wish these TDs would actually get up to speed on the facts and try to make a useful contribution to the future of Cork Airport rather than just trying to get publicity. Sadly the only thing the old terminal is good for is bulldozing.

The old terminal is a fine building. Its got ample office space and has a few very big open spaces that could be used for production or converted for more office spaces. Its got massive amounts of parking outside in a car park thats virtually empty all year round. The management should look to lease it long term to someone who can use it and they could make a few bob. Instead they have a couple of offices in there which are costing a small fortune cos most of the building is being lit up and heated to keep them going.

roundymac

When FR were flying Cork-Dub it was €50rtn, you can now get the train for as low as €28rtn and the bus for around €22. No way is an airline going to compeate with those prices. My big problem is with these TDs going on about giving FR the use of the old terminal. MOL won't deny it's a non runner, he'll milk it for all it's worth while those eejets fall all over him. That proposel has got to be up there with, people standing on the planes, one pilot, one toilet and having to pay for that, probably some more but I'v just finished nights so limited brain function.

beer enigma

.red. wrote: »

The old terminal is a fine building. Its got ample office space and has a few very big open spaces that could be used for production or converted for more office spaces. Its got massive amounts of parking outside in a car park thats virtually empty all year round. The management should look to lease it long term to someone who can use it and they could make a few bob. Instead they have a couple of offices in there which are costing a small fortune cos most of the building is being lit up and heated to keep them going.

Fine building but I believe it needs too much work - lets not forget that Cork wouldn't just 'give' the building to Ryanair, they'd be landlords & responsible for maintaining the building. The roof has gone in most places, I have more buckets in my office that I have waste bins :eek:. The level of decay and mould in the unused bits is horrendous. The windows and doors all need replacing and brought up to modern security standards. The Air con is dead. The Restaurant and kitchen have gone.

There is no working baggage system in there, so again would have to be replaced and they would also have to install all of the security requirements, X Rays, Walk through Metal detectors, Scanners, Liquid & Gel detection etc etc. Under the EU regulations, Cork would be responsible for supplying all of that, as well as the security staff to man it.

I honestly believe it would be more cost effective to knock it and replace it with some form of function/convention centre.

There is planning for a terminal extension towards the Cargo area & it would probably be cheaper to build a Ryanair hub there than renovate the old terminal.

JCX BXC

I don't understand this? The new terminal at Cork is "too big" and it carries too much debt, yet there is talks about renovating and reopening the old terminal or expanding the existing terminal?

Unless someone decides what Cork wants, it will continue to fail imo.

beer enigma

Carnacalla wrote: »

I don't understand this? The new terminal at Cork is "too big" and it carries too much debt, yet there is talks about renovating and reopening the old terminal or expanding the existing terminal?

Unless someone decides what Cork wants, it will continue to fail imo.

The terminal extension planning dates back to when the domestic routes were still open and the airport was doing well, it was thought that they'd secure planning at that time rather than risk not getting it afterwards. It's still current, but its not feasable to enact it unless there was a capital grant available.

Likewise, my point about the old terminal was that its simply not viable to move ryanair into it because the investment needed outweighs the financial rewards. If a private investor came along and bought it with a view to putting some form of convention centre (ie, something that would bring in traffic) on the site then thats a possibility, but as it stands the old terminal is not in any state to be reused as a hub.

Frostybrew

IIRC the old terminal is too close to the runway to be used as a passenger terminal, under current international aviation rules. It's part of the reason that the new terminal was constructed in the first place. That and the fact that it was inadequate to cater for the level of passenger numbers.

I remember the regulation being flagged by an article in the Examiner several years ago.

beer enigma

Frostybrew wrote: »

IIRC the old terminal is too close to the runway to be used as a passenger terminal, under current international aviation rules. It's part of the reason that the new terminal was constructed in the first place. That and the fact that it was inadequate to cater for the level of passenger numbers.

I remember the regulation being flagged by an article in the Examiner several years ago.

Good memory !

I remember when it came out but believe it was never fully enacted. Personally I think Cork will be a completely different animal in a few years time as there are lots of plans. Subsidising Ryanair would be a mistake as once you go low there's no coming back and as good as ryanair are at bringing in passengers, they are equally as good switching airports for a better deal.

I don't see the government ever writing off the debt, but I do see investment in a new building where the old terminal sits, potential for low cost routes to the states (this will happen in DUB this year with non CBP so makes great sense for Cork) and within 5 years a Ryanair hub where cargo sits.

JCX BXC

Personally, any talk of T/A is non-sensicle. Getting a few euro routes are far more valuble to any airport. Try get GermanWings and TAP Portugal.

beer enigma

Carnacalla wrote: »

Personally, any talk of T/A is non-sensicle. Getting a few euro routes are far more valuble to any airport. Try get GermanWings and TAP Portugal.

By T/A I presume you mean transatlantic - if so, why are Dub putting so much credence behind Norweigan low cost (non pre cleared) to New York this summer.......even some of the Lingus flights to Washington for 2015 don't qualify for CBP.

if a carrier offered low cost non cleared flights to New York or Boston via 737 or 757, both of which Cork can handle, do you not think there would be interest

Germanwings and TAP would be great, but they are demanding the same terms as Ryanair and that would leave the airport vulnerable should they decide to pull out at any stage. If you saw what one of the above mentioned are trying to squeeze out of Shannon at the moment, you'd be glad Cork hasn't capitulated to the pricing.

JCX BXC

Andip wrote: »

By T/A I presume you mean transatlantic - if so, why are Dub putting so much credence behind Norweigan low cost (non pre cleared) to New York this summer.......even some of the Lingus flights to Washington for 2015 don't qualify for CBP.

Im unsure of what you meant there.

if a carrier offered low cost non cleared flights to New York or Boston via 737 or 757, both of which Cork can handle, do you not think there would be interest

There would. The problem being that there isn't true Low-cost T/A (Transatlantic) flights yet. Norwegians lowest fare from London Gatwick is €150. That doesnt include inflight meals. Last year I found SNN-JFK-SNN on the Aer Lingus website for €374, or €187 each way. This includes inflight meals and preclearence.

If anyone started low cost T/A flights from cork, it would be met with Fierce competition from Dublin and Aer Lingus.


My point is though, it is worth all the trouble of finding a Transatlantic operator for Cork, when you could be looking for more European routes.

Also- another point. Belfast has 1 flight to New York with United and thats not even year-round. It has no other Transatlantic routes besides the odd Orlando or Las Vegas holiday route. If Belfast can't get a year round transatlantic route, would things be similar if not worse for Cork?

highlydebased

Andip wrote: »

By T/A I presume you mean transatlantic - if so, why are Dub putting so much credence behind Norweigan low cost (non pre cleared) to New York this summer.......even some of the Lingus flights to Washington for 2015 don't qualify for CBP.

.

Don't think Norwegian are flying to JFK ex DUB- do you mean the WowAir flights via Iceland?

I could certainly see ORK-JFK happening seasonally at least. Also think Westjet would be a serious contender....

roundymac

You can fly JFK with Norwegian,,, via Oslo, you'd nearly walk there quicker.:D

Nemanrio

Andip wrote: »

By T/A I presume you mean transatlantic - if so, why are Dub putting so much credence behind Norweigan low cost (non pre cleared) to New York this summer.......even some of the Lingus flights to Washington for 2015 don't qualify for CBP.

if a carrier offered low cost non cleared flights to New York or Boston via 737 or 757, both of which Cork can handle, do you not think there would be interest

Germanwings and TAP would be great, but they are demanding the same terms as Ryanair and that would leave the airport vulnerable should they decide to pull out at any stage. If you saw what one of the above mentioned are trying to squeeze out of Shannon at the moment, you'd be glad Cork hasn't capitulated to the pricing.

By that do you mean the SNN gets nothing from Ryanair?

Day in day out at Cork airport there are significant gaps throughout the day where absolutely nothing is happening there. Its like a graveyard,surely charging Ryanair Germanwings, Air Berlin etc. etc. small fees will increase routes and consumer satisfaction.

beer enigma

Nemanrio wrote: »

By that do you mean the SNN gets nothing from Ryanair?

Day in day out at Cork airport there are significant gaps throughout the day where absolutely nothing is happening there. Its like a graveyard,surely charging Ryanair Germanwings, Air Berlin etc. etc. small fees will increase routes and consumer satisfaction.

Shannon agreed a deal with Ryanair which brought traffic but not huge income, ok shannon do get passengers and revenue through shopping and food/beveridge sales, but not a vast amount from the airline. Shannon could afford do do it as they didn't have to service debt, but now Ryanair are in a position where Shannon are so dependent on them that Ryanair are calling the shots. If Shannon don't agree with the new pricing, they know Ryanair could pull routes, could be great news for Cork, but no airport can afford such a loss. If Cork slash fees just to get an airline in, they too will be at similar risk except they have a vast debt to service.

Nemanrio

Andip wrote: »

Shannon agreed a deal with Ryanair which brought traffic but not huge income, ok shannon do get passengers and revenue through shopping and food/beveridge sales, but not a vast amount from the airline. Shannon could afford do do it as they didn't have to service debt, but now Ryanair are in a position where Shannon are so dependent on them that Ryanair are calling the shots. If Shannon don't agree with the new pricing, they know Ryanair could pull routes, could be great news for Cork, but no airport can afford such a loss. If Cork slash fees just to get an airline in, they too will be at similar risk except they have a vast debt to service.

So Cork are receving nothing no, but if there was another airline to come in with new routes at least they would get something.

roundymac

Nemanrio wrote: »

So Cork are receving nothing no, but if there was another airline to come in with new routes at least they would get something.

Lads there are only a limited ammount of people that actually fly, no point of having airlines with routes and no one to fly on them. I can only fly once this year and I'm flying from Cork. I consider myself one of the lucky ones in that I can do it. As for SNN there are even longer periods with nothing happening as well. Cork is still doing more passengers than SNN, you'd swear Cork was about to close the way people are going on about it.