Learn to love the Swastika!!

scudzilla

Over in the UK they had a 'Learn to love the Swastika' event, where people had Swastika tattoo's done :eek:

I, for one, cannot see any beauty or love in that fcukin evil design

Anybody from over here take part in it?

More info here on what they were trying to achieve

Here's a few from a guy i know's FB page

Marty McFly

You really should look into the true meaning of the Swastika before you brand it disgusting .

Reekwind

"True meaning" is irrelevant. People aren't wrong to take offence at a symbol that is, rightly or wrongly, forever associated with one of the darkest periods in human history

amazingemmet

I agree with Mcfly. Its an ancient design appropriated by a horrible regime. While the horrors associated with it are still freshish, I feel there should be a campaign to reclaim it for what it was but still acknowledge its misuse.

P_1

The Star of David meets the Swastika design is an interesting enough one. Mind you probably too devisive an image for me tbh

Marty McFly

Reekwind wrote: »

"True meaning" is irrelevant. People aren't wrong to take offence at a symbol that is, rightly or wrongly, forever associated with one of the darkest periods in human history

Not really if one truly understands the meaning of it , what these people are trying to achieve is re claiming it the more that people are educated on the meaning of the swastika the less association it will have with that period in time.

It is a symbol that represents peace and has been around since long before Nazi's were ever heard off. It is still seen in many Buddhist temples around the world as a symbol of peace one man can not destroy thousands of years of history one symbol holds.

I would have no problem having a variation of the Swastika tattooed on my body. If you are understand it's true meaning and it is used without racist connotations I can't see how people can have a problem with it.

Arawn

Well the one used by nazi's is different. Also it is not an evil symbol what a silly statement to make.

Here is some really nice ink

gregers85

thousands of people have died and been killed in the name of and under the reign of this symbol too, would you cionsider it evil as well?

Arawn

gregers85 wrote: »

thousands of people have died and been killed in the name of and under the reign of this symbol too, would you cionsider it evil as well?

Don't forget this symbol which has been involved in countless deaths since the turn of the milenium

bumper234

gregers85 wrote: »

thousands of people have died and been killed in the name of and under the reign of this symbol too, would you cionsider it evil as well?

Thousands? Try hundreds of millions.

amazingemmet

Anyway Hitlar and the nazis have nothing on Mao and Stalin

elfy4eva

bring back the swastika laundry!

swarlb

Marty McFly wrote: »

Not really if one truly understands the meaning of it , what these people are trying to achieve is re claiming it the more that people are educated on the meaning of the swastika the less association it will have with that period in time.

It is a symbol that represents peace and has been around since long before Nazi's were ever heard off. It is still seen in many Buddhist temples around the world as a symbol of peace one man can not destroy thousands of years of history one symbol holds.

I would have no problem having a variation of the Swastika tattooed on my body. If you are understand it's true meaning and it is used without racist connotations I can't see how people can have a problem with it.

Sometimes the 'true meaning' of a word or phrase or statement cannot be re-claimed. The word 'Gay' for example.
I imagine this campaign is more to do with fashion and shock, rather than reclaiming a meaning.
I would not be happy if a child of mine had a swastika like tattoo, its meaning has been far too debased to be deemed acceptable.

Reekwind

Marty McFly wrote: »

Not really if one truly understands the meaning of it

But that's my point: there is no one true meaning. The weight and 'meanings' we give to symbols are entirely derived from the social and historical context in which they're placed

The 'meaning' that Buddhists garner from the symbol is completely at odds with what almost everyone else understands it to mean, in the West at least. And we cannot say that the latter simply don't have a good enough understanding; as if knowing about Buddhist history would erase the memories and footage of goose-stepping stormtroopers

I'm not even sure if we should. A thousand years of previous history means little to those whose families were destroyed by the Nazis. And we shouldn't expect it to

amazingemmet wrote:

Anyway Hitlar and the nazis have nothing on Mao and Stalin

This is the wrong forum for it but you're wrong

Sciprio

I know it was linked with a horrible crime but that doesn't mean it should be totally vilified. On another note, i bought a WW2 german plane model, it's very accurate except there's no swastika on the tail. That did and still does annoy me. :pac:

Marty McFly

swarlb wrote: »

Sometimes the 'true meaning' of a word or phrase or statement cannot be re-claimed. The word 'Gay' for example.
I imagine this campaign is more to do with fashion and shock, rather than reclaiming a meaning.
I would not be happy if a child of mine had a swastika like tattoo, its meaning has been far too debased to be deemed acceptable.

Trust me the majority of people involved in this have no desire to be shocking or know anything of fashion a lot of them would be labelled well hippies. I personally would much rather have the Swastika symbol tattooed on my body than anything even closely related to Catholic Church imo.

Reekwind wrote: »

But that's my point: there is no one true meaning. The weight and 'meanings' we give to symbols are entirely derived from the social and historical context in which they're placed

The 'meaning' that Buddhists garner from the symbol is completely at odds with what almost everyone else understands it to mean, in the West at least. And we cannot say that the latter simply don't have a good enough understanding; as if knowing about Buddhist history would erase the memories and footage of goose-stepping stormtroopers

I'm not even sure if we should. A thousand years of previous history means little to those whose families were destroyed by the Nazis. And we shouldn't expect it to

This is the wrong forum for it but you're wrong

Ha way to twist my point by using one sentence and using it to suit your own means . What I meant was we know it represents peace as it has done for thousands of years what I said was to many people are ignorant to that fact, also as Arawn said Hitler used a reversed Swastika.


In the west you really think so? Look at how many people in this thread instantly recognised the Swastika as a symbol of peace as oppossed to those who instantly associated it with Nazi? It would seem a lot of people in the west know what a Swastika really represents.


No one has said what happened during World War 2 should be forgotten or made light off but I'm sure there are also lots of people who it has effected who understand and want the Swastika to be really recognised for what it represents not what one man tried to twist it for, if anything one could say educating more and more people on the true meaning of the Swastika and re claiming it is one more spit on the grave of Hitler and legacy he tried to instill on humanity.

Adiboo

People should read Gentle Swastika by ManWoman.

http://www.amazon.com/Gentle-Swastika-ManWoman/dp/0968871607

The Swastika day around the world was dedicated to him as I believe it's been a year since his passing.

endacl

Sciprio wrote: »

On another note, i bought a WW2 german plane model, it's very accurate except there's no swastika on the tail. That did and still does annoy me. :pac:

Paint one on?*







*Another obvious solution from the folks who brought you 'well, just don't watch it then'.
:P

Rod Serling

gregers85 wrote: »

thousands of people have died and been killed in the name of and under the reign of this symbol too, would you cionsider it evil as well?

Arawn wrote: »

Don't forget this symbol which has been involved in countless deaths since the turn of the milenium

2 edgy

Vinz Mesrine

"It's ok, I'm taking it back" is all I can think of here

Reekwind

Marty McFly wrote: »

What I meant was we know it represents peace as it has done for thousands of years what I said was to many people are ignorant to that fact, also as Arawn said Hitler used a reversed Swastika.

And I'm saying that it represents peace to you. And that's fine, it's a valid meaning and you're not wrong. However, those who associate it with death, destruction and genocide are also not wrong

In the west you really think so? Look at how many people in this thread instantly recognised the Swastika as a symbol of peace as oppossed to those who instantly associated it with Nazi? It would seem a lot of people in the west know what a Swastika really represents

Yet it's still abhorred as a symbol of fascism. Try opening a business called 'Swastika Laundries' today in the West

In fact, try going to Israel and telling people that they're wrong to abhor the symbol, given that it 'really' represents peace. That would be grossly insulting

Star Lord

Reekwind wrote: »

And I'm saying that it represents peace to you. And that's fine, it's a valid meaning and you're not wrong. However, those who associate it with death, destruction and genocide are also not wrong

Yet it's still abhorred as a symbol of fascism. Try opening a business called 'Swastika Laundries' today in the West

In fact, try going to Israel and telling people that they're wrong to abhor the symbol, given that it 'really' represents peace. That would be grossly insulting

If people never try to 'reclaim' such symbols, then people will ignorantly continue to associate them solely with the bastardised use that the Nazi party made of it. And such ignorant people will judge temples with the swastika on them wrongly, will judge Buddhists or people whose beliefs lie on the more Buddhist side wrongly too.

Do people truely 'abhor' the symbol, or do they 'abhor' the actions of the nazis that misused the symbol?

Here's a couple of other threads on the subject:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057016148
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86292845

biko

Young and hip, 20 million killed.

Angron

I have a version of a hammer and sickle tattoo myself, but Stalinism =/= communism.

Also, mine is due in part to a Type O Negative hoodie I own:

Arawn

look at the rising sun image. also seen as a war crimes symbol by certain people yet you always see it sold on touristy stuff. images mean nothing to some people but everything to others

Angron

Actually, that's one I never thought of, and is a good point.

A Primal Nut

Marty McFly wrote: »

Trust me the majority of people involved in this have no desire to be shocking or know anything of fashion a lot of them would be labelled well hippies.

If the Nazis had never used the swastika then most of these people getting the tattoos would never have heard of the swastika, never mind use it as a tattoo. To say they only care about it's true meaning is a bit hard to believe.

Also swastika tattoos in particular are a trademark of white supremacist groups. Aren't people who get these tattoos worried that for the rest of their lives people will automatically associate them with white supremacists or nazis in general - surely that's going too far to make a point!! You hardly expect the majority of people to think "Oh he's got a swastika, no doubt indicating peace; how nice of him to reclaim it's true meaning from the Nazi's". Even someone with a detailed understanding of the history of the swastika would not assume that!

Really don't understand why any non-Nazi would do this, even if their motivations are noble.

Marty McFly

A Primal Nut wrote: »

If the Nazis had never used the swastika then most of these people getting the tattoos would never have heard of the swastika, never mind use it as a tattoo. To say they only care about it's true meaning is a bit hard to believe.

Also swastika tattoos in particular are a trademark of white supremacist groups. Aren't people who get these tattoos worried that for the rest of their lives people will automatically associate them with white supremacists or nazis in general - surely that's going too far to make a point!! You hardly expect the majority of people to think "Oh he's got a swastika, no doubt indicating peace; how nice of him to reclaim it's true meaning from the Nazi's". Even someone with a detailed understanding of the history of the swastika would not assume that!

Really don't understand why any non-Nazi would do this, even if their motivations are noble.

Well no really if you ever look at how white supremacists use the image its always bold and black or bold with straight lines and it reversed were as the one everyone else get is not look at the pic Arawn has posted up for reference it's pretty hard to confuse the two really and if someone has trouble distinguishing between the two they need there eyes checked.

Also who is to say people wouldn't know of the Swastika if it wasnt for the Nazis? Bit of a silly statement really it been around thousands of years and is still used in Temples.


Again look at my first post in this thread to garner how many people really have an understanding of the Swastika versus those that don't making your other point kind of mute.

Star Lord

A Primal Nut wrote: »

You hardly expect the majority of people to think "Oh he's got a swastika, no doubt indicating peace; how nice of him to reclaim it's true meaning from the Nazi's".

And there lies an opportunity to educate someone further.

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Even someone with a detailed understanding of the history of the swastika would not assume that!

Someone with a detailed understanding of the history of the swastika would not assume that, they'd know it, as they could tell the difference. As Marty pointed out: White supremacist = solid black, reversed swastika, rather than the original swastika design, which is often coloured, or more flowing/curved, with other design elements integrated also.

Arawn

A Primal Nut wrote: »

If the Nazis had never used the swastika then most of these people getting the tattoos would never have heard of the swastika, never mind use it as a tattoo. To say they only care about it's true meaning is a bit hard to believe.

Also swastika tattoos in particular are a trademark of white supremacist groups. Aren't people who get these tattoos worried that for the rest of their lives people will automatically associate them with white supremacists or nazis in general - surely that's going too far to make a point!! You hardly expect the majority of people to think "Oh he's got a swastika, no doubt indicating peace; how nice of him to reclaim it's true meaning from the Nazi's". Even someone with a detailed understanding of the history of the swastika would not assume that!

Really don't understand why any non-Nazi would do this, even if their motivations are noble.

The aryian brootherhood use a shamrock as there symbol, you're name could be patches o ****ing houlihan but if you aint AB you best cover that **** up. One group even uses a circle under the nipple as their symbol.

There now you know bad connotations of circles and a shamrock, you can never have either inked on you because people you don't agree with in a country you don't live in have misappropriated them

Angron

Fecking Aryans, ruining everything for everyone.