Advice for finding the right tenant for my property

xxdilemmaxx

Hi all,

I am emigrating in January of next year and will be renting my aprtment for upwards of 1 year. As I'm moving early January I was told to advertise the apartment now as people are not likely to move over Christmas. Took the advice and advertised it today. I've had quite a few emails already and just not really sure where to start. What are the pros and cons of accepting rent allowance? I have all sorts of interest, mum and her son, young professionals etc

Is it acceptable to ask for someone's references to be emailed to me prior to meeting them (most have stated they have references)? If there's a lot of interest is it best to set aside a day and try to have as many viewings as possible? What kind of questions should I be asking?

I appreciate these are all probably very basic questions but I've never done this before and won't be using a letting agent - I have a family member to look after issues while I'm away. I plan on registering with the PRTB etc (if that's relevant), when should I do this, the day the lease starts or before/after that?
Do I wait to ask them to sign the lease until January?

Any help/opinions appreciated!

Someday

Professional couple that can prove on headed paper from their employer that they are full-time and past their probation!

Ask why they are moving, can the provide references?

Signed lease as soon as and collect 1 months rent and 1.5 for deposit ASAP also.

Meet them and have a chat with them, use your gut feeling after the above.

Grandpa Hassan

Professional with good references from work and previous LL. Make sure the work reference is on headed paper and provides a landline number. Don't even consider anyone else. I know it sounds brutal, but you're away for a year....it's your house and you want to not have to worry about it

irlirishkev

Be vigilant. No references, no rent. Simple as.
You want a professional reference, and a previous landlord reference. And don't be afraid to ring to double check they're real if you want to.
I wouldn't bother getting them to email them before turning up. It's just extra hassle. If you like someone, get them to email them then, or they might even have them at the viewing if they're serious and determined.

Re Rent Allowance. Just apply the same precautions as above. You still need references, at the very least from a previous landlord. If it's their first time renting, well that's another story, and you have to follow your instinct.

I've always allowed Rent Allowance, but the problem is, the Rent Allowance may not cover the full rent amount, and you have to sign a form saying how much the rent is, and you have to be honest. You're not allowed say rent is 600euro if it's 900euro and then let the tenant top it up themselves.

Dedicate a day, or a few evenings to viewings, and just get them done.

Make a list of every single item in the apartment that you value, that can go missing. Also detail any defects etc. Include it with the lease and have each copy signed by both you and the tenants.
I usually start the lease from the first of the month, but you can set the start date from whatever day they move in. Up to you.

Once you find a tenant, register the tenancy with the PRTB as soon as you can, for both yours and the tenants peace of mind.

Insist on payment via standing order.

Muahahaha

OP there is some good advice over on irishlandlord.com
Though the other thing I'd be concerned about is you just renting it out and then going abroad- who is going to manage the property in the event something goes wrong or breaks down ?
Also don't forget that as you are going to be an absentee landlord your tenant is legally obliged to take 20% of the rent and give it straight to Revenue.
I personally think this is one situation where you need a managing agent, that can be a company or it can be a family member/friend.

Chattastrophe!

Someday wrote: »

Signed lease as soon as and collect 1 months rent and 1.5 for deposit ASAP also.

As a tenant, there is no way I would pay more than the standard one months deposit. Also, while I'd pay the deposit ASAP to secure the property, I wouldn't be willing to pay the first months rent until the day before I moved in.

No point in putting off potentially excellent tenants by introducing requirements that are beyond what's normal and acceptable in the market.

jimd2

Get yourself an agent. It will cost you but you will get peace of mind and they will assist in vetting of tenant, arranging payment etc. your involvement is not just when the tenant moves in but also throughout the year when you are gone. It also will be needed if the tenant moves out early.

Grandpa Hassan

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

As a tenant, there is no way I would pay more than the standard one months deposit. Also, while I'd pay the deposit ASAP to secure the property, I wouldn't be willing to pay the first months rent until the day before I moved in.

No point in putting off potentially excellent tenants by introducing requirements that are beyond what's normal and acceptable in the market.

6 weeks is the standard in the UK. And seeing it more and more in Ireland. Ireland needs to get itself a proper government backed deposit protection system though

Duckjob

A professional reference means feck all IMO. People holding down professional jobs can be animals just as much as anyone else.

A fellow tenant in my ex-landlords place (I've mentioned her on other threads) was, by his reckoning, the worst tenant he's ever had to deal with in 30+ yrs (and he rents a lot of properties). She was a doctor.

Chattastrophe!

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

6 weeks is the standard in the UK. And seeing it more and more in Ireland. Ireland needs to get itself a proper government backed deposit protection system though

Hmm, I didn't see this once when we were looking for a place recently (and this would be in an area where there's extremely high demand for rented houses at the moment.) If we'd been asked for any more than one months rent as a deposit, it would have been enough to make me turn down the place. It's not that we couldn't afford it, it just seems greedy and unnecessary.

Agree with you re. a deposit protection system!

_Kaiser_

Someday wrote: »

Professional couple that can prove on headed paper from their employer that they are full-time and past their probation!

Ask why they are moving, can the provide references?

Signed lease as soon as and collect 1 months rent and 1.5 for deposit ASAP also.

"Prove" they're full-time/not on probation? WTF business is it of some landlord what someone does, where or for how long as long as the rent is paid? Next thing they'll be looking for 3 month's salary slips :rolleyes:
Besides, all those letter mean nothing if the company goes belly up or lays people off the next day!

1.5 month's deposit? Not a chance! Rental prices are already high enough in Dublin (where I assume most of the above muppetry goes on) without giving into extortion as well. Presumably this is so the LL can keep more for themselves at the end of the lease for whatever nonsense reasons they dream up.

If this is the "standard practise" then it just highlights even more how proper regulation of the private rental market is needed - and I'm not talking about the PRTB which you can see here every day is toothless/ignored anyway.

SHANAbert

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

Hmm, I didn't see this once when we were looking for a place recently (and this would be in an area where there's extremely high demand for rented houses at the moment.) If we'd been asked for any more than one months rent as a deposit, it would have been enough to make me turn down the place. It's not that we couldn't afford it, it just seems greedy and unnecessary.

Agree with you re. a deposit protection system!

Landlords should take 6 weeks deposit. 28 days to evict a nonpaying tenant so gives 2 weeks leeway on late rent until they start proceedings.

I'm not a landlord and do rent (1 month deposit) but when I worked in receiverships I saw how unfair to the landlord it was.

Grandpa Hassan

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

"Prove" they're full-time/not on probation? WTF business is it of some landlord what someone does, where or for how long as long as the rent is paid? Next thing they'll be looking for 3 month's salary slips :rolleyes:

Its the landlords house. He or she is entitled to ask for whatever they want

The_Conductor

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

As a tenant, there is no way I would pay more than the standard one months deposit. Also, while I'd pay the deposit ASAP to secure the property, I wouldn't be willing to pay the first months rent until the day before I moved in.

No point in putting off potentially excellent tenants by introducing requirements that are beyond what's normal and acceptable in the market.

Most properties in areas of any sort of demand at all require 6 to 8 weeks deposit. Its rapidly becoming the norm. If we were to follow a lot of continental Europe- it would actually be 3 months deposit. As-is- 6 to 8 weeks, is rapidly becoming the norm.

Also- regardless of when you'd like to move in- in cases like this- its the deposit in full to hold the property- and rent in advance from the day the property is actually available.

After that- its professionals with references who are willing to sign as long a lease as possible, avoid Rent Allowance where possible- and seek independent verification of employment status etc- aka ring up Personnel where the person claims to work, and confirm they do actually work there, and haven't just made up a lovely letter in Photoshop.

Dravokivich

The_Conductor wrote: »

Most properties in areas of any sort of demand at all require 6 to 8 weeks deposit. Its rapidly becoming the norm. If we were to follow a lot of continental Europe- it would actually be 3 months deposit. As-is- 6 to 8 weeks, is rapidly becoming the norm.

Also- regardless of when you'd like to move in- in cases like this- its the deposit in full to hold the property- and rent in advance from the day the property is actually available.

After that- its professionals with references who are willing to sign as long a lease as possible, avoid Rent Allowance where possible- and seek independent verification of employment status etc- aka ring up Personnel where the person claims to work, and confirm they do actually work there, and haven't just made up a lovely letter in Photoshop.

They'll eventually find a lot of people just can't do that here. I'd dread the thought of having to take out a loan just to get a deposit for renting a property sorted out.

The_Conductor

Dravokivich wrote: »

They'll eventually find a lot of people just can't do that here. I'd dread the thought of having to take out a loan just to get a deposit for renting a property sorted out.

In many countries- its entirely normal to take out a loan to get your deposit for renting a property- or....... save until you have sufficient.

Its an entirely normal market mechanism for properties in better locations to have additional requirements associated with them. You can find back street apartments in almost any EU city that are happy to take a month's deposit- however, its not the norm.

If the market- as a whole, is not in a position to take these conditions- then, things will slide back to the month's deposit- however this would be a retrograde step.

What we really need to do- is get away from the idea that there should be standard deposit amounts- better properties, in more desireable locations, can and will support, higher deposit amounts- simple as.

We do need an external agency for managing these deposits- and alongside this- we need to remove amateur managers from the scene.

Dravokivich

The_Conductor wrote: »

In many countries- its entirely normal to take out a loan to get your deposit for renting a property- or....... save until you have sufficient.

Its an entirely normal market mechanism for properties in better locations to have additional requirements associated with them. You can find back street apartments in almost any EU city that are happy to take a month's deposit- however, its not the norm.

If the market- as a whole, is not in a position to take these conditions- then, things will slide back to the month's deposit- however this would be a retrograde step.

What we really need to do- is get away from the idea that there should be standard deposit amounts- better properties, in more desireable locations, can and will support, higher deposit amounts- simple as.

We do need an external agency for managing these deposits- and alongside this- we need to remove amateur managers from the scene.

THis is kind of moving aside from the original reason for the thread, but to save for a 1.5 to 2 month deposit, would be very hard if you are alraedy paying rent, food, bills, transportation and childcare. It's an over simplistic comment to make to say "Save for it" and paying out for a loan, only adds to the burden of the bills.

murphaph

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

"Prove" they're full-time/not on probation? WTF business is it of some landlord what someone does, where or for how long as long as the rent is paid? Next thing they'll be looking for 3 month's salary slips

Normal in Germany. Landlords expect to know how much the tenant earns here, so they can be sure the tenant actually has enough money to at least potentially pay the rent.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

1.5 month's deposit? Not a chance! Rental prices are already high enough in Dublin (where I assume most of the above muppetry goes on) without giving into extortion as well. Presumably this is so the LL can keep more for themselves at the end of the lease for whatever nonsense reasons they dream up.

3 x months rent deposit normal in Germany.

I believe 6 weeks/ 2 months deposit will be the norm in the cities in Ireland within a couple of years at it becomes increasingly clear that the law sides much more heavily with tenants than landlords. Ultimately the LL has much more to lose as it is his expensive asset the tenant is occupying. His asset could be worth 200k+ and people are complaining about paying an extra €500 of a deposit. Think about it folks. The one month deposit business is actually ridiculously low, given the value of the asset the deposit it covering. When you rent a €25k hire car they generally block your credit card to the tune of 1k. A rented property could be worth 10 times as much as the car.

Mrs OBumble

Written references are very sweet and all, but what you need are referees. for the professional one, you want the company name and location, and then you look up the company phone number yourself, call them, and ask questions. For the landlord one, you get the phone number of the former landlord from the tenant and ask picky questions to try to validate that they really are a landlord not just a friend pretending to be one.

Take a complete set of digital photos of the house and contents on the day the lease is signed.

Get a credit check for the prospective tenant.

Only do references at the end of the process.

All that said ...

I know you don't want to get an agent. But have a long talk with your family-member: are they prepared to handle an eviction (including of a family with small kids) if the rent stops being paid or worse? Will they organise and manage repairs and re-letting if something goes wrong? Etc.

FWIW, I own a house overseas. I pay an agent 11%, which is high. But IMHO they're worth it. Specialists property managers - not real estate sales people. I get photo inspections every three months. If the tenant is 24 hours late with rent, their process for formal warnings etc kicks in that day. My property had a burst pipe which caused a lot of damage, the agent managed the whole thing, and got the place re-tenanted as quickly as possible - 'cos they get more money if it's tenanted, they are more motivated than a family member or friend who simply won't have the same sense of urgency.

Also, whatever you do, you need to investigate your tax liabilities here, and where you go to live. You don't necessarily need an accountant, but you do need to do a good bit of research.

Chattastrophe!

Where are people seeing this 6-8 weeks deposit required in Ireland? Is it in the ads, or are you told when you go to view the house?

I haven't seen a single ad looking for more than a month deposit, and it was never suggested at any houses I viewed recently either.

Chattastrophe!

Mrs O'B, can I ask what you mean by doing a credit check, what is involved in that? It's not something I've ever been asked about when renting.

As far as I'm concerned, my boyfriend and I are willing to supply employment references confirming that we're both in permanent employment, excellent written landlord references, and nothing else. I just don't see how my personal finances are the landlord's business, when I'm paying the deposit and the rent upfront.

I realise that landlords do of course have to cover themselves, but there's a danger of putting off the best tenants by having unreasonable demands.

awec

Duckjob wrote: »

A professional reference means feck all IMO. People holding down professional jobs can be animals just as much as anyone else.

A fellow tenant in my ex-landlords place (I've mentioned her on other threads) was, by his reckoning, the worst tenant he's ever had to deal with in 30+ yrs (and he rents a lot of properties). She was a doctor.

Professional reference is to check that the potential tenant has income to pay the rent, rather than a judge of their character.

Dravokivich

murphaph wrote: »

3 x months rent deposit normal in Germany.

I believe 6 weeks/ 2 months deposit will be the norm in the cities in Ireland within a couple of years at it becomes increasingly clear that the law sides much more heavily with tenants than landlords. Ultimately the LL has much more to lose as it is his expensive asset the tenant is occupying. His asset could be worth 200k+ and people are complaining about paying an extra €500 of a deposit. Think about it folks. The one month deposit business is actually ridiculously low, given the value of the asset the deposit it covering. When you rent a €25k hire car they generally block your credit card to the tune of 1k. A rented property could be worth 10 times as much as the car.

It's very hard for me to imagine how anyone can get upto 2 months worth of rent put aside for anywhere in Dublin on top of the month advance for rent. How can people think that is a reality and should become expected? Even just the idea of x1.5 is an awful lot of money.

Faith

The business about references is grand if your place is in Dublin, OP, but outside of Dublin, that doesn't happen. We rent in Cork city centre, and I've never, ever been asked for references. One or two prospective landlords idly asked if we were working, and where, but that was it. That's renting 3 different places, and viewing at least 20 places over the last few years.

Muahahaha

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

Where are people seeing this 6-8 weeks deposit required in Ireland? Is it in the ads, or are you told when you go to view the house?

I haven't seen a single ad looking for more than a month deposit, and it was never suggested at any houses I viewed recently either.

http://www.irishlandlord.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3013

This guy here claims to be managing 200+ properties and they've increased the deposit to 6 weeks and then 8. Says that only 12% of potential tenants complained

Dravokivich

Muahahaha wrote: »

http://www.irishlandlord.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3013

This guy here claims to be managing 200+ properties and they've increased the deposit to 6 weeks and then 8. Says that only 12% of potential tenants complained

That kind of thinking would leave me dependant on my current landlord. Which is not a good thing. Nothing against them or anything, but I just wouldn't be able to afford to move out. If other people pick up that practice.

To be honest, as a renter I feel insulted to see that the whole thing is being spun as an "experiment" in that thread you linked to.

If PRTB isn't good enough for LL's, campaign to TD's as a lobby group for better protection. Don't take it out on potential customers.

_Kaiser_

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Written references are very sweet and all, but what you need are referees. for the professional one, you want the company name and location, and then you look up the company phone number yourself, call them, and ask questions. For the landlord one, you get the phone number of the former landlord from the tenant and ask picky questions to try to validate that they really are a landlord not just a friend pretending to be one.

Take a complete set of digital photos of the house and contents on the day the lease is signed.

Get a credit check for the prospective tenant.

Only do references at the end of the process.

Credit checks? Calling an employer to ask questions?

I can tell you now that any prospective LL that asked me for stuff like that would be swiftly told he can keep his "palace" :rolleyes: Not a chance would I give out sensitive personal and financial information to another private individual and if I found out my employer had done so without my prior consent I'd be looking into data protection breaches.

But if anyone else is happy to give out data like that to a complete stranger acting on their own behalf then work away!

Someday

So you expect a Landlord to hand over a property worth 200K- 400K with 1 months rent, they then thrash the place and they don't pay the last months rent, how is the landlord then?!

I had people in my place for 6 months and the state of the toilets, sink etc was disgusting, they where a professional couple!

sunnysoutheast

If only there was some sort of thread for what makes a good tenant

Yes, suggest you check references thoroughly. Bear in mind there are two reasons why tenants might be given a glowing landlord reference.

Also, with respect to a tenancy deposit scheme, yes these would offer massive advantages but you don't get back your deposit on the same day with those, can be 2-3 weeks if no dispute with the UK schemes.

_Kaiser_

Someday wrote: »

So you expect a Landlord to hand over a property worth 200K- 400K with 1 months rent, they then thrash the place and they don't pay the last months rent, how is the landlord then?!

I had people in my place for 6 months and the state of the toilets, sink etc was disgusting, they where a professional couple!

I agree that's completely unacceptable - but that's the risk of landlording I guess.. if you're not prepared to have to deal with that occasionally, don't rent out a place!

Equally there's plenty of stories of unscrupulous/amateur landlords who haven't a clue as to their obligations either and think it's just about making a fast buck.

Oh and in the example you describe, I feel it necessary to point out (to you and the others advocating such measures) that references from an employer or credit checks will tell you absolutely nothing about how they'll treat your place!

murphaph

Dravokivich wrote: »

It's very hard for me to imagine how anyone can get upto 2 months worth of rent put aside for anywhere in Dublin on top of the month advance for rent. How can people think that is a reality and should become expected? Even just the idea of x1.5 is an awful lot of money.

No different here. Go rent a flat in Munich and you'll need to produce 5k up front easily. They sometimes allow you to pay your deposit in installments over the first 3 months however.

As for credit checks: absolutely normal to be asked for your recent SCHUFA in Germany. This is your credit rating and is THE most important thing a LL will want to see before he thinks of letting you into his expensive asset.