Advice for finding the right tenant for my property

mdebets

murphaph wrote: »

No different here. Go rent a flat in Munich and you'll need to produce 5k up front easily. They sometimes allow you to pay your deposit in installments over the first 3 months however.

As for credit checks: absolutely normal to be asked for your recent SCHUFA in Germany. This is your credit rating and is THE most important thing a LL will want to see before he thinks of letting you into his expensive asset.

But you have to see the overall picture of longer tenancy periods and better tenant friendly legislation in Germany.
You don't move apartment every year in Germany, but stay in the same for several years. If your example would apply in Ireland, many people would need 10K just lieing around in their accounts for the deposits (you need it twice, as you are unlikely to get the deposit of your old apartment back before you have to pay the one for the new apartment).

Duckjob

awec wrote: »

Professional reference is to check that the potential tenant has income to pay the rent, rather than a judge of their character.

I get that. I suppose what I'm getting at is just because someone has the means to pay their rent, doesnt mean they won't be a nightmare to get paid from. The women in our place was a case in point - a doctor, but between giving the LL the poor mouth, and giving him guff over [stupid] stuff she wanted done in the property before she would hand over rent, she had the poor guy heartbroken.

murphaph

mdebets wrote: »

But you have to see the overall picture of longer tenancy periods and better tenant friendly legislation in Germany.
You don't move apartment every year in Germany, but stay in the same for several years. If your example would apply in Ireland, many people would need 10K just lieing around in their accounts for the deposits (you need it twice, as you are unlikely to get the deposit of your old apartment back before you have to pay the one for the new apartment).

I'd say that Irish tenancy legislation has swung way over to the tenant in the last 10 years. Ireland is not a LL friendly place at all. The main difference has nothing to do with legislation but rather that most Irish tenants simply see renting as a stop gap until they can stump up a deposit for their own property. Germans generally don't have this expectation, so settle in for the long haul with their rental.

Speaking as a landlord with property in Germany and Ireland, I much prefer the German system. No need to provide furniture or even a kitchen or light fittings: the flat can be let absolutely bare and the tenant is responsible for fitting it out. No calls from tenants about this or that broken. Tenants even generally have to pay for up to €400 worth of repairs each year here. Are Irish tenants ready to pay €400 a year to repair their landlords things? I don't think so. With rights come responsibilities, at least in Germany.

Someday

LL should ensure that he quickly resolves issues but in return, rent should be paid on time and the place kept clean!

The_Conductor

Dravokivich wrote: »

If PRTB isn't good enough for LL's, campaign to TD's as a lobby group for better protection. Don't take it out on potential customers.

The PRTB offers protection to tenants.
It offers sweet damn all to landlords- aside from registration fees and rules and regulations.
If something goes skew-ways for a landlord- best case scenario he or she can hope for- is to get the property back (eventually) without too much damage- however being north of 10k out of pocket, is far from unusual.

Landlords are seen as evil in Ireland- and tenants as victims- when very often its the tenants who play the system like a finely tuned violin.........

ghostdancer

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

Where are people seeing this 6-8 weeks deposit required in Ireland? Is it in the ads, or are you told when you go to view the house?

I haven't seen a single ad looking for more than a month deposit, and it was never suggested at any houses I viewed recently either.

same, I've rented in Dublin and Kildare over the last 9 years and never had anywhere ask for more than 1 months rent as a deposit, let alone seen it in any of the hundreds of ads I've read over that time...

any landlord looking for more than 1 months rent as a deposit is in the extreme minority.

fasttalkerchat

Any tenant worth their salt will have a few other good properties lined up.
I would laugh at LL asking for 1.5 months rent as deposit and I wouldn't be comfortable asking by boss to write a reference so I could rent a house.
I can't see any professional company offering details on employees to a private individual either so this idea of calling HR to ask if such and such works there and are they on probation won't work.

MouseTail

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I can't see any professional company offering details on employees to a private individual either so this idea of calling HR to ask if such and such works there and are they on probation won't work.

Of course it does, I've written numerous references for LLs and taken calls. Not to say Johnny will be a great tenant, but to confirm Johnny has been in employment for the company for x years.

djimi

Nobody in their right mind should be handing over more than 1 months deposit to a landlord, considering there is absolutely no deposit protection in place and it could take over a year to get the money back. I dont care how much the property is worth; Im not handing over €2-3k+ to a landlord when there is no guarantees that I will get it back when I move out.

The_Conductor

MouseTail wrote: »

Of course it does, I've written numerous references for LLs and taken calls. Not to say Johnny will be a great tenant, but to confirm Johnny has been in employment for the company for x years.

I've done the same- I must have provided over 100 references over the past few years, on behalf of various individuals. They are all factual, and don't disclose any private or personal information. Googling on the internet would provide similar information- but not from the horses mouth.

dissed doc

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

"Prove" they're full-time/not on probation? WTF business is it of some landlord what someone does, where or for how long as long as the rent is paid? Next thing they'll be looking for 3 month's salary slips :rolleyes:

it's pretty much 100% important for a landlord. A person in full time employment, with a salary covering e.g., 4x the monthly rent on a contract of indefinite duration is a more reliable tenant. That is simply reality. Looking for salary slips is also the norm in much of western europe and the UK (or at least, verification of income statement). I would expect that to not be far behind in Ireland.

People want tenants' rights in Ireland but seem oblivious to the door swinging both ways.

1.5 month's deposit? Not a chance! Rental prices are already high enough in Dublin (where I assume most of the above muppetry goes on) without giving into extortion as well. Presumably this is so the LL can keep more for themselves at the end of the lease for whatever nonsense reasons they dream up.

And the next step with 2-3 months deposit for furnished places or 1-2 months deposit for unfurnished. Again, it's about security. The landlord owns the place. In a rural area of Leitrim it may be more of a renter's market but in central Dublin where space and accommodation is limited (and "they aren't making any more land" then it's reasonable.

If this is the "standard practise" then it just highlights even more how proper regulation of the private rental market is needed - and I'm not talking about the PRTB which you can see here every day is toothless/ignored anyway.

The laws as it stands are biased heavily in favour of the tenant. Expect the financial costs of being a landlord to lead to much higher rental costs. But the positive side is people staying as long term tenancies.

djimi

dissed doc wrote: »

And the next step with 2-3 months deposit for furnished places or 1-2 months deposit for unfurnished. Again, it's about security. The landlord owns the place. In a rural area of Leitrim it may be more of a renter's market but in central Dublin where space and accommodation is limited (and "they aren't making any more land" then it's reasonable.

The laws as it stands are biased heavily in favour of the tenant. Expect the financial costs of being a landlord to lead to much higher rental costs. But the positive side is people staying as long term tenancies.

In terms of deposits the law is very much not in favour of the tenant. In the current system the tenant is basically handing the landlord a loan of a large amount of cash, with absolutely no guarantees that it will be returned in a timely fashion once the tenancy has ended. Its a ridiculous situation that we have in this country, and one that badly needs to be regulated properly, with suitable protection put in place for deposits. Until that happens, it is not reasonable to expect tenants to hand over any more than the bare minimum required, which in this country at present is still 4 weeks as standard.

murphaph

djimi wrote: »

In terms of deposits the law is very much not in favour of the tenant. In the current system the tenant is basically handing the landlord a loan of a large amount of cash, with absolutely no guarantees that it will be returned in a timely fashion once the tenancy has ended. Its a ridiculous situation that we have in this country, and one that badly needs to be regulated properly, with suitable protection put in place for deposits. Until that happens, it is not reasonable to expect tenants to hand over any more than the bare minimum required, which in this country at present is still 4 weeks as standard.

No different in Germany. No deposit retention scheme exists here either. Can take months to get entire deposit back from landlords as the LL waits for his annual invoice from the management company and wants to ensure he's not left out of pocket.

I don't encourage holding deposits for extended periods for no good reason and I would broadly favour a deposit retention scheme (but NOT if it's administered by the inept PRTB-tenants would be waiting even longer for deposits if that crowd were involved without major reform of the organisation first) however I would only be in favour of a retention system as part of a total overhaul of tenancy legislation to allow fast track eviction of rogue tenants and some way to blacklist them for future unsuspecting landlords.

LLs are really just moving to protect themselves as the law does not. The LL is essentially at the mercy of a rogue tenant once the tenancy commences. The LL ONLY has real power BEFORE the tenancy begins, so expect to see LLs in higher demand areas exercise this power more and more in the coming years.

JustAddWater

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

6 weeks is the standard in the UK. And seeing it more and more in Ireland. Ireland needs to get itself a proper government backed deposit protection system though

The UK is also that... The UK. This is Ireland and I get paid monthly, so this 6 WEEKS thing just isn't for me. If a landlord asked for more, I'd be wary and I'd probably look elsewhere. There's definitely no shortage of property to rent

murphaph

JustAddWater wrote: »

The UK is also that... The UK. This is Ireland and I get paid monthly, so this 6 WEEKS thing just isn't for me. If a landlord asked for more, I'd be wary and I'd probably look elsewhere. There's definitely no shortage of property to rent

Depends where. Very tight availability in our biggest rental market, Dublin.

Grandpa Hassan

JustAddWater wrote: »

The UK is also that... The UK. This is Ireland and I get paid monthly, so this 6 WEEKS thing just isn't for me. If a landlord asked for more, I'd be wary and I'd probably look elsewhere. There's definitely no shortage of property to rent

People in the UK get paid monthly too.....

ChRoMe

The_Conductor wrote: »

Landlords are seen as evil in Ireland- and tenants as victims- when very often its the tenants who play the system like a finely tuned violin.........

Being able to hold a deposit with the tenant having absolutely no recourse is one of the main contributing factors to that view.

Grandpa Hassan

ChRoMe wrote: »

Being able to hold a deposit with the tenant having absolutely no recourse is one of the main contributing factors to that view.

Irish tenants normally just don't pay their last months rent, leaving the LL exposed in respect of any damage to the property, and nothing they can do about it. Other than PTRB which takes forever. So 1 month deposit actually provides zero protection for the LL.

6 weeks is about right IMO, and hope it becomes the norm. In reality that is only 2 weeks to cover any damage, as Irish tenants rarely (just about never) pay the last months rent

ChRoMe

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Irish tenants normally just don't pay their last months rent,

Looks like an assumption to me................

zl1whqvjs75cdy

So the talk up above is saying a reference from a previous landlord is vital and a post above says most people apparently leave the landlord in the lurch with the last months deposit bring used for rent. Surely you totally eliminate your ability to get a reference by doing that. Some strange contradictions going on in here.

The_Conductor

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

So the talk up above is saying a reference from a previous landlord is vital and a post above says most people apparently leave the landlord in the lurch with the last months deposit bring used for rent. Surely you totally eliminate your ability to get a reference by doing that. Some strange contradictions going on in here.

Many landlords will give a tenant an unduly good reference- just to get rid of them, aka- the piece of paper on its own- has to be backed up with a few phone calls to double check a potential tenants.

Grandpa Hassan

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

So the talk up above is saying a reference from a previous landlord is vital and a post above says most people apparently leave the landlord in the lurch with the last months deposit bring used for rent. Surely you totally eliminate your ability to get a reference by doing that. Some strange contradictions going on in here.

You just can't rely in a LL reference. A good reference is as likely because the LL wants to get rid of someone as much as anything else. Employers reference to go along with the LL one is more important

Mr. Chrome

Years ago I used to ask for 2 weeks deposit, now I ask for 3. I mainly take rent allowance tenants and I find asking for more turns too many away.
As said above they usually stop paying towards the end, or if they're a good tenant I allow them to.
I take references with a pinch of salt, I usually go on gut instinct.
Im not in Dublin btw.

Grandpa Hassan

ChRoMe wrote: »

Looks like an assumption to me................

Even good tenants of mine have assumed that I will let then off the last months rent, and been very put out when I've refused.

Half ( in my albeit limited sample) have still not paid it, and I am very choosy about my tenants. I can only assume that if I was less choosy, then the norm would be to not get paid for the last month, leaving the LL completely exposed in respect of cost of damage

the world wonders

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Irish tenants rarely (just about never) pay the last months rent

Grandpa Hassan wrote:

Half ( in my albeit limited sample) have still not paid it

That's quite the rowing back you're doing there.

If you were to require two months deposit, I suspect the people who aren't paying the last months rent will just not pay the last two months instead.

Grandpa Hassan

the world wonders wrote: »

That's quite the rowing back you're doing there.

If you were to require two months deposit, I suspect the people who aren't paying the last months rent will just not pay the last two months instead.

Not really. Every single one of my very good tenants, without exception, has expected to not pay the last month. Some have asked, some have just cancelled the DD. When asked to pay, half of them have ignored me.

I only ask for a month, but wish it was the market standard to ask for 6 weeks. I hope it is moving that way as LLs are left completely exposed to tenants using their deposit as rent

mdebets

murphaph wrote: »

No different here. Go rent a flat in Munich and you'll need to produce 5k up front easily. They sometimes allow you to pay your deposit in installments over the first 3 months however.

That's actually a right, the tenant has (see BGB §551). The landlord in Germany doesn't have the right to demand the deposit in one go or before the start of the tenancy.

mdebets

murphaph wrote: »

No different in Germany. No deposit retention scheme exists here either. Can take months to get entire deposit back from landlords as the LL waits for his annual invoice from the management company and wants to ensure he's not left out of pocket.

While this is true, there is still better protection for the deposit in Germany. In Ireland, the money just goes into the normal account of the landlord, which might lead to problems if the LL goes bankrupt, changes agents or sells the apartment. The LL also keeps all the interest earned if he invests the deposit, so it's basically an interest free loan from the tenant to the LL.
In Germany, the LL has to keep the deposit in an account (one per tenancy, not one overall account) that is separate from his other property, and has to invest it (standard is a savings account, but LL and tenant can agree on another investment). The interest that is earned by the deposit belongs to the tenant.

murphaph

Currently the LL in Germany is only obliged to achieve 0.2% interest on the deposit. Given that even rubbish savings accounts offer 1%+ currently you can see the LL is not expected to do more than the bare minimum. Not what I'd define as investment tbh and in reality it's also a loan to the LL albeit not interest free but at very low rates which the LL can easily beat on deposit. So in Ireland it's an interest free loan to landlord and in Germany it's a loan at very low rates, currently 0.2% as I said above.

murphaph

mdebets wrote: »

That's actually a right, the tenant has (see BGB §551). The landlord in Germany doesn't have the right to demand the deposit in one go or before the start of the tenancy.

The first installment of the deposit is due at the start of the tenancy (Die erste Teilzahlung ist zu Beginn des Mietverhältnisses fällig) and the remaining 2 installments are due in the following 2 months.