Attacked by a JRT...

b_mac

Came back from a walk with my pup(on a lead) at 7 this morning and while I was walking up my drive to the door. A JRT, who's owner a few houses up was out throwing a ball around from her front door on to the road, ran up my drive after us and tried to bite my pup's back legs. I shouted at the JRT but it continued to try attack my pup, who at this time was yelping and trying to hide behind me. I then stamped my foot at the dog and it ran off.

Que the lady storming up to my drive shouting at me saying that I kicked her dog. I tried keeping calm and told her I didn't kick her dog, I only scared him off. Biting my tounge, I then expained to her what had happened. Her response?
"Ah sure he is only playing".

I shook my head in disbelief and told her if that had happened to her with my dog that it would have been a different story. She would probably have been on the phone to the dog warden and AGS.

I gave up at this stage, before I heard a response and before I ended up loosing my temper; and just walked in to the house.

Was telling my friends at work and got told by everyone I should have kicked the dog but tbh I was more angry at the dog's owner and her response.

What can I do if it happens again?

angelfire9

I walk my sisters pup during the day when she's working a long day and have invested in a water pistol any dog off a lead that comes within inches gets a soaking (I have a 3 year old walking with me as well so am a bit paranoid) the pup is a golden retriever a big soft idiot
Not sure if this is a good approach?

Maybe DBB can advise? But it works for me

dodderangler

Change the thread name because you weren't attacked by a jrt.
You were simply approached by it an it took interest in your dog as all dogs do.

that just sounds like an invitation to play.

b_mac

No worries. Close the thread so, because ye obviously had a better view of the situation than me this morning.

Cheers.

Gremlin

The OP clearly said "tried to bite my pup's back legs" whether the jrt was playing or not is irrelivant. It was unwanted by the OP. We all have a right to bring our dog out without unwanted attention. The control of dogs act requires people to maintain a dog under "effective control" in a public place. Clear the OP's neighbour did not do this.

However OP. Despite what they said to you in work, kicking a dog is not the right approach (I know you didn't kick the dog) unless you or your dog are in really serious trouble.

b_mac

Gremlin wrote: »

The OP clearly said "tried to bite my pup's back legs" whether the jrt was playing or not is irrelivant. It was unwanted by the OP. We all have a right to bring our dog out without unwanted attention. The control of dogs act requires people to maintain a dog under "effective control" in a public place. Clear the OP's neighbour did not do this.


However OP. Despite what they said to you in work, kicking a dog is not the right approach (I know you didn't kick the dog) unless you or your dog are in really serious trouble.

Thank you Gremlin, and yes you are right, kicking the dog would have not been the right thing to do.

Hey Op, this is one of the things you will have to put up with on dog walks unfortunately. I have the opposite problem. I have a dog that is not great with other dogs. I tie a yellow ribbon around the lead to warn people if their dog is off the lead. But every now and again an owner will let their dog approach despite me trying to warn them, and my dog kicks off i then get verbally abused for my dogs behavior.

I wasnt there but from your description does sound like an invitation to play. I am sure you have heard the term "Nipping at the heels" All in all the worst part about dog walking is the human element.
I am pretty sure Humans get into more fights then dogs during dog walks

DBB

Biting at back legs is not an invitation to play.
Dogs may bite at each other during play, but this is most certainly not an opening gambit.
Indeed, if the JRT was any good at communicating with other dogs, he would not have raced headlong up to the OP's dog, and he should not have attempted to either approach from behind, nor make physical contact.
He, or at the very least his owner, also might have noticed the discomfort he was causing the OP's puppy, and reacted accordingly.
It's inappropriate behaviour like this that causes many a pup to become aggressive. It is utterly inappropriate for an owner to allow their dog to do this. I suspect many owners know this, but try to hide behind the untrue excuse that their dog is "just trying to play" when in fact, he's not.

b_mac

DBB wrote: »

Biting at back legs is not an invitation to play.
Dogs may bite at each other during play, but this is most certainly not an opening gambit.
Indeed, if the JRT was any good at communicating with other dogs, he would not have raced headlong up to the OP's dog, and he should not have attempted to either approach from behind, nor make physical contact.
He, or at the very least his owner, also might have noticed the discomfort he was causing the OP's puppy, and reacted accordingly.
It's inappropriate behaviour like this that causes many a pup to become aggressive. It is utterly inappropriate for an owner to allow their dog to do this. I suspect many owners know this, but try to hide behind the untrue excuse that their dog is "just trying to play" when in fact, he's not.

Thank you DDB. What do you think I should do if it happens again?

DBB

b_mac wrote: »

Thank you DDB. What do you think I should do if it happens again?

I think it's important to protect your own dog. What type is yours? If he's small enough to pick up, do. If he's not, I'd go for the nice approach with the JRT first. I'd scatter a handful of food (dry food, but better still, something really tasty, bits of sausage, frankfurter etc) out towards him as he approaches. You'd hope this'd make him stop, and then go "hey! Nice one!", and eat the goodies so you can disappear. It may also teach JRT to actually like your dog!
Failing that, I scatter handfuls of sand or gravel, but if this dog becomes relentless, I'd investigate more radical approaches, but try the nice stuff first :-)

b_mac

DBB wrote: »

I think it's important to protect your own dog. What type is yours? If he's small enough to pick up, do. If he's not, I'd go for the nice approach with the JRT first. I'd scatter a handful of food (dry food, but better still, something really tasty, bits of sausage, frankfurter etc) out towards him as he approaches. You'd hope this'd make him stop, and then go "hey! Nice one!", and eat the goodies so you can disappear. It may also teach JRT to actually like your dog!
Failing that, I scatter handfuls of sand or gravel, but if this dog becomes relentless, I'd investigate more radical approaches, but try the nice stuff first :-)

He is a 4 and a half month old Doberman. The reason I am so annoyed is that he is already very nervous outside, not something that will help when he gets bigger, if it keeps happening.

ZiabR

DBB wrote: »

I think it's important to protect your own dog. What type is yours? If he's small enough to pick up, do. If he's not, I'd go for the nice approach with the JRT first. I'd scatter a handful of food (dry food, but better still, something really tasty, bits of sausage, frankfurter etc) out towards him as he approaches. You'd hope this'd make him stop, and then go "hey! Nice one!", and eat the goodies so you can disappear. It may also teach JRT to actually like your dog!
Failing that, I scatter handfuls of sand or gravel, but if this dog becomes relentless, I'd investigate more radical approaches, but try the nice stuff first :-)

Good advice here. Can I ask if your pup has met any other dogs than this JRT? If not, I would try and get a good tempered dog to try and socialise your pup with so that he does not see all dogs as a threat or something to be scared of.

You said he is already very nervous outside so the last thing you want is him associating outside with fear.

ferretone

Aw, poor little thing! Dobies are really sensitive dogs, and all the more so at that age. It's really unfortunate that some inconsiderate owner has exposed him to such a bad experience right then. DBB's advice is, as always, the very best. But I'd like to see her response to the information that he's a young dobie. I think you'll need to ge carefully right now with socialisation, and if I had him, I'd be looking for DBB's advice right away on getting him more confident around other dogs, and hopefully erasing any damage done by that ill-informed jrt owner.

CallMeACab

Let me speak on behalf of the nation when I say that JRTs and their owners can be a collective pain in the backside for the rest of us dog owners. My dog was attracted by two JRTs last week - they both grabbed his legs. The owner came running up, but couldn't control them.

Should I have kicked the dogs? I asked myself the exact same question you did. I believe the simple answer is NO. It's not the dog's fault that their owners are idiots.

If you're as assertive as me, you could do what I did when I had a similar, but far less serious problem - again involving a JRT - a year ago in my estate. I tracked down the owners and said it was against the law for a dog to be off its lead in public and if I saw their dog ONE MORE TIME I would phone the police. About to walk away, I turned back and added, AND I MEAN IT! Result? The couple bought a lead and began exercising their dog in the evenings!

The point is: don't injure the dog because it's wrong and illegal and you'll feel bad about it afterwords. Go to the source of the problem and sort the owner out before it happens again - and use conviction: mean it when you say you'll report the dog owner to the police. (And yes, yes, I know JRTs can be lovely dogs - but I couldn't eat a whole one...)

ferretone

CallMeACab wrote: »

Let me speak on behalf of the nation when I say that JRTs and their owners are a collective pain in the backside for the rest of us dog owners. My dog was attracted by two JRTs last week - they both grabbed his legs. The owner came running up, but couldn't control them.

Should I have kicked the dogs? I asked myself the exact same question you did. I believe the simple answer is NO. It's not the dog's fault that their owners are idiots.

If you're as assertive as me, you could do what I did when I had a similar, but far less serious problem, a year ago in my estate. I tracked down the owners and said it was against the law for a dog to be off its lead in public and if I saw their dog ONE MORE TIME I would phone the police. About to walk away, I turned back and added, AND I MEAN IT! Result? The couple bought a lead and began exercising their dog in the evenings! The point is: don't injury the dog because it's wrong and illegal and you'll feel bad about it afterwords. But sort the owner out before it happens again - and use conviction: mean it when you say you'll report the dog owner to the police. Good luck!!

I guess your post is well-meaning, as in, giving you the benefit of the doubt.

However, you are not terribly well-informed regarding the laws governing dogs and their owners, for somebody as assertive as you are. You're lucky the owners you confronted didn't bother checking the laws out for themselves. I guess a guilty conscience did your work for you.

In fact, what the law requires is that the handler has "effective control" over the dog. The only absolute requirement for a leash is for the so-called "restricted breeds", which is an utter nonsense, which if fully enforced, would cause far more trouble with these dogs than it could ever prevent.

As for JRTs, they are a fantastic little dog in the right home. And a total disaster in the wrong one. These little guys were bred to do a job: a difficult, never-ending one, in circumstances that absolutely required a high degree of independence to perform. You can't expect a dog like that to cope in a situation where they're rarely asked to do anything challenging, without inventing their own diversions.

As with any dog, let JRTs be JRTs. To expect them to behave any other way is a lost cause. But harness that energy and drive for something fun and engaging, such as small agility or tracking, and you get a real partner rather than a servant, which is really all some dogs aspire to

CallMeACab

ferretone wrote: »

I guess your post is well-meaning, as in, giving you the benefit of the doubt.

However, you are not terribly well-informed regarding the laws governing dogs and their owners, for somebody as assertive as you are. You're lucky the owners you confronted didn't bother checking the laws out for themselves. I guess a guilty conscience did your work for you.

In fact, what the law requires is that the handler has "effective control" over the dog. The only absolute requirement for a leash is for the so-called "restricted breeds", which is an utter nonsense, which if fully enforced, would cause far more trouble with these dogs than it could ever prevent.

As for JRTs, they are a fantastic little dog in the right home. And a total disaster in the wrong one. These little guys were bred to do a job: a difficult, never-ending one, in circumstances that absolutely required a high degree of independence to perform. You can't expect a dog like that to cope in a situation where they're rarely asked to do anything challenging, without inventing their own diversions.

As with any dog, let JRTs be JRTs. To expect them to behave any other way is a lost cause. But harness that energy and drive for something fun and engaging, such as small agility or tracking, and you get a real partner rather than a servant, which is really all some dogs aspire to

The dog owners in question lived in one estate and I lived in an entirely different estate. Their dog was left to wander around the estate where I lived. The owners had no control - effective or otherwise. If your dog isn't with you, you can't control him or her. I honestly don't have a personal dislike for any breed. My issue is with the many people who do not socialise and train their dogs. This includes JRTs - who (as you described) need special attention if they are not to be a disruption to dog owners who are doing their best to train their own dogs to behave appropriately in public. Finally, why is your reply littered with humourless sarcasm in the beginning? Do you only extend the right to assertiveness to JRTs?! By the way, my dog is a Kerry Blue Terrier and I've trained him from a pup to behave in public and not savage JRTs who attack him for no reason. Like you, I prefer a strong-willed, intelligent dog with character and one who is able to think for himself. But I don't expect the world to bend to my preference in dog breed and nor should people with JRTs. Am I correct in thinking that we are perhaps closer in our viewpoints than you first gave me credit? In the meantime, what of this poor women who just wants to raise and train her dog without interference from her neighbour's dog? I think you're in a better position to give her some helpful advice than I am, as the breed (and their owners ) are clearly closer to your heart and area of expertise than mine. You have described the potential difficulty with JRTs beautifully in your post - but what is the solution for this woman? CMAC

b_mac

logik wrote: »

Good advice here. Can I ask if your pup has met any other dogs than this JRT? If not, I would try and get a good tempered dog to try and socialise your pup with so that he does not see all dogs as a threat or something to be scared of.

You said he is already very nervous outside so the last thing you want is him associating outside with fear.

Yes, he is well socialized with other dogs, but still is very wary of a new dog until he gets to know it. Just it was the first time he was "invited to play" by a dog who was snarling and showing its teeth.

GarIT

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hey Op, this is one of the things you will have to put up with on dog walks unfortunately. I have the opposite problem. I have a dog that is not great with other dogs. I tie a yellow ribbon around the lead to warn people if their dog is off the lead. But every now and again an owner will let their dog approach despite me trying to warn them, and my dog kicks off i then get verbally abused for my dogs behavior.

I wasnt there but from your description does sound like an invitation to play. I am sure you have heard the term "Nipping at the heels" All in all the worst part about dog walking is the human element.
I am pretty sure Humans get into more fights then dogs during dog walks

How are people supposed to know your yellow ribbon is a warning?

b_mac

@CMAC Just to clear it up I am a not a women.

Should have said this at the begining to clear up a few things and the reason why I said to her
" had it been the other way round it would have been a different story"

I am a 24 year old man with a shaved head(receeding hairline) and I likes to look after myself by going to the gym EOD, so unfortunetly some people might be scared to approach me or think I am aggressive. When in actual fact ,the total opposite is true. So I would love away around this and future situations without a confrontation so I am going to try DDB advice.

Thank you all for so much for your replies though!

ZiabR

GarIT wrote: »

How are people supposed to know your yellow ribbon is a warning?

I was thinking that myself. I wouldnt know that that meant warning.

dodderangler

GarIT wrote: »

How are people supposed to know your yellow ribbon is a warning?

Exactly.yellow ribbon means nothing. Decoration on the lead maybe.
Only thing I'd take as a warning on a dog is a muzzle.

borderlinemeath

dodderangler wrote: »

Exactly.yellow ribbon means nothing. Decoration on the lead maybe.
Only thing I'd take as a warning on a dog is a muzzle.

How are people supposed to know your yellow ribbon is a warning?

http://www.theyellowdogproject.com/The_Yellow_Dog_Project/Home.html

dodderangler

borderlinemeath wrote: »

http://www.theyellowdogproject.com/The_Yellow_Dog_Project/Home.html

That's all well and good but how am I supposed to know that?
I'm a dog owner. I received nothing about that. Leaflet, email or tv ad?
I never seen anything about that an I'm sure the same for many others.
Maybe if there was a sign or two in the parks informing dog owners about the purpose of a yellow ribbon then I'd know

borderlinemeath

dodderangler wrote: »

That's all well and good but how am I supposed to know that?
I'm a dog owner. I received nothing about that. Leaflet, email or tv ad?
I never seen anything about that an I'm sure the same for many others.
Maybe if there was a sign or two in the parks informing dog owners about the purpose of a yellow ribbon then I'd know

Maybe if you spoke to some dog clubs, went along to the pet expo, spoke to a few trainers or behaviourists, or joined a few doggie facebook pages you would have heard about it. I didn't get a leaflet or an email or see it on a tv ad either. At this stage I can't quite remember where I heard of it first. But it's been around a few years.

https://www.facebook.com/YellowDogIreland

tk123

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Maybe if you spoke to some dog clubs, went along to the pet expo, spoke to a few trainers or behaviourists, or joined a few doggie facebook pages you would have heard about it. I didn't get a leaflet or an email or see it on a tv ad either. At this stage I can't quite remember where I heard of it first. But it's been around a few years.

https://www.facebook.com/YellowDogIreland

+1 I had one on my dog when he was hurt a few months and anyone who didn't know what it was was told - by me lol! The same last week when a groomer who is obviously not part of the doggy world put a yellow ribbon on a dog in our park - when I asked was the dog ok to play and got a blank look I explained to the owner what the yellow ribbon meant, they told others etc so awareness is spread that way too.

CallMeACab

I get the picture you're the 'youth of today' with a shaved head and a fit body who struts around with your Doberman. In the meantime, your neighbour is a sweet-natured women with a fun-loving JRT!

I promise not to say anymore after this - but why give treats to the badly behaved dog, even if it is in your best interest? Why are people so reluctant to assert themselves in society today? The woman is in the wrong. Why not poliety tell her so and the consequences to continuing to ignore her legal responsibility. People who behave as your neigbour does are usually cowardly at heart. Why do we allow selfish people impinge on our standard of living? I'm a nice person - very quite and shy (not obvious from my posts, I know!) but I'm Done with letting selfish people impact on my life. If you solved this problem at source, wouldn't you be doing a good service in the longterm for all the other dog owners in your area?

Anyway...whatever happens, I hope your dog continues to have a good life with a master who clearly cares about him very much. J

dodderangler

CallMeACab wrote: »

a fun-loving JRT!

Plenty of jrt can be more aggressive than a lot of Doberman.

borderlinemeath

CallMeACab wrote: »

I promise not to say anymore after this - but why give treats to the badly behaved dog, even if it is in your best interest?

So the dog will have a positive association with yours. Put yourself in the OPs shoes. His dog is being attached and bitten from behind by the jrt, he swings a kick or yells at the dog, the dog then has a negative association with the dog/human and will associate that the next time he sees them. Cue another attack. Give the dog treats, make the interaction as pleasant as possible and the dog no longer associates OP/OPs dog as a threat, but something positive that gives nice treats. So the dog shouldn't attack but should (if out without a lead) come up tail wagging, looking for treats and not on the attack.

Why are people so reluctant to assert themselves in society today?

For an easy life. If you have an RB dog, it just makes 'asserting yourself' that bit harder. The onus is always, always on the RB owner to be 100% compliant with legislation and be a model dog. Giving out to another owner can sometimes land you in hot water, particularly if you don't have a muzzle on your RB and a lead longer than 1metre.

The woman is in the wrong. Why not poliety tell her so and the consequences to continuing to ignore her legal responsibility. People who behave as your neigbour does are usually cowardly at heart. Why do we allow selfish people impinge on our standard of living? I'm a nice person - very quite and shy (not obvious from my posts, I know!) but I'm Done with letting selfish people impact on my life. If you solved this problem at source, wouldn't you be doing a good service in the longterm for all the other dog owners in your area?

Sometimes it's easier going the sneaky route of the dog warden, if the woman is continually letting her dog out and not keeping it under effectual control.

b_mac

Anyone who wants to put a face to this situation

ferretone

b_mac wrote: »

Anyone who wants to put a face to this situation

Utterly adorable