Civil Eng. vs Aeronautical Eng.

podgemk

I'm currently in sixth year trying to decide my future. Interested in both Civil Eng. and Aeronautical Eng. but I can't choose one over the other. I think I would be good at civil and I'd enjoy it whereas Aeronautical while it sounds very interesting I'm not as sure. I know construction isn't doing so well and aero sector seems very promising. I would appreciate any advice/info.

mickdw

As a Civil Engineer, I would say do whichever one you really love. There will always be jobs for people who are interested and enthusiastic.
Aero sounds mighty interesting to me with many and wider opportunities compared to Civil.

artanevilla

I do Aeronautical Engineering and I enjoy it. It's very interesting but quite tough at times and there's no messing about as it's probably one of the most highly regulated industries in the world. And remember, Aeronautical Engineers build weapons, while civil engineers build targets.

podgemk

How would they compare salary-wise straight out of college and then with experience later ?

artanevilla

Well if you want to be an maintenance engineer on aircraft you're going to need a licence if you want to make any money. This means you're going to have to do your degree in a Part 66 organisation (ie, recognised by the European Aviation Safety Authority (EASA)). This means you'll be doing EASA modules alongside your ordinary college ones, so you'll have two exams for one subject, but EASAs are 75% to pass so you can't be scraping by with 40s.

You also need to log a certain amount of theory hours, which means signing in every hour to class, and my course it means something like you've to attend 95% of classes so it's not great in terms of social life.

Alongside theory you'll need practical hours, some of which you'll do in college but you'll need summer work as well probably.

Then, when you finish college (3 years) assuming you've the hours and EASAs passed, you'll get a certificate of completion alongside your degree. This isn't your licence yet and you'll need to do two more year in a job as an unlicensed mechanic before you can apply for your licence. This means someone else has to supervise and sign off an every bit of work you do on an aircraft. When you get your license you sign off your own work.

The hard bit is getting the summer work and then the work after college, they all have to be part 66 recognize as well.

Not sure about unlicensed but licensed maintenance engineering is quite a well paid job.

CatFromHue

On the Aero side one of the Lecturers in UL contacted every Aero grad a couple years back to compile info on what they were doing. The info is on the link below, so if you want to see where they end up it's an excellent bit of information.

http://www2.ul.ie/web/WWW/Faculties/Science_%26_Engineering/Departments/Mechanical_%26_Aeronautical_Engineering/Courses/LM077/Aero_Grad_Stats

As Artanevilla says above the UL Aero Eng course won't enable you to be an aircraft mechanic, they're two different things. There are links on the graduate profiles to people who have gone into Aircraft Maintenance but they wouldn't be hands on mechanics doing the actual work. For most Engineers this is the case though i.e. if I need to get a part made up in the work shop I'd make up the drawings and then give it to a fitter or workshop technician to physically make the part.

I would be an Aero grad myself but I don't work in the Aerospace industry, I'm pretty much a Mech Eng now. Though it can be hard to sometimes nail down a specific title as Engineering is so broad.

podgemk

"UL’s new 1-year M.Eng. in Aeronautical Engineering will enhance students’ knowledge and capabilities in key areas of aeronautical technology. From 2013, education to masters level will be a requirement for the attainment of Chartered Engineer Status in Ireland. Research opportunities to masters or doctoral level are also available, and UL has strong, funded research programmes in a number of aerospace disciplines."

From UL's website. Would the 4 year degree get me a job outside of Ireland or would I need to do the masters and be chartered?

CatFromHue

You don't need to be chartered anyway. It's not really a runner in the mechanical/aero industry from what I can see. I certainly have no intention of doing it and I've never worked with anyone who has been chartered.

As for the Masters, I don't know. If you look at the grad profiles on the link above you can see there's plenty of people of have worked abroad, and in Ireland, with having done that course. It's only a relatively new course too, it wasn't available when I graduated in 06 and I think only started in 2010 maybe.

I wouldn't be worrying too much about Masters courses just yet.

Turbulent Bill

podgemk wrote: »

I'm currently in sixth year trying to decide my future. Interested in both Civil Eng. and Aeronautical Eng. but I can't choose one over the other. I think I would be good at civil and I'd enjoy it whereas Aeronautical while it sounds very interesting I'm not as sure. I know construction isn't doing so well and aero sector seems very promising. I would appreciate any advice/info.

You're aware that civil and aero are very different fields? Do you know enough about either to make a an informed choice?

Dermighty

artanevilla wrote: »

I do Aeronautical Engineering and I enjoy it. It's very interesting but quite tough at times and there's no messing about as it's probably one of the most highly regulated industries in the world. And remember, Aeronautical Engineers build weapons, while civil engineers build targets.

No, mechanical engineers build weapons, aeronautical engineers build the stuff you stick the weapons on or fire them at

pa4

I'm in my 4th year of Civil and love it.. Don't let the current economic climate stop you from doing something, things will get better. People tried to convince me not to do civil because there was no jobs but I didn't want to do anything else and haven't looked back.

2011

pa4 wrote: »

I'm in my 4th year of Civil and love it.. Don't let the current economic climate stop you from doing something, things will get better. People tried to convince me not to do civil because there was no jobs but I didn't want to do anything else and haven't looked back.

Good luck with the job hunt, it's not going to be easy.

pa4

2011 wrote: »

Good luck with the job hunt, it's not going to be easy.

No it won't, but at least it won't be like this forever contrary to what many people seem to believe. Wouldn't mind going abroad for a few years either.. plenty of work if you know where to find it!

2011

pa4 wrote: »

No it won't, but at least it won't be like this forever contrary to what many people seem to believe. Wouldn't mind going abroad for a few years either.. plenty of work if you know where to find it!

Yes, if you are willing to work abroad I am sure you will find something.
Not a lot here though and I don't think that will change anytime soon.

pa4

2011 wrote: »

Yes, if you are willing to work abroad I am sure you will find something.
Not a lot here though and I don't think that will change anytime soon.

Probably not any time soon no. For anyone who would be willing to travel they'd be grand.

CatFromHue

Long term I don't know what's going to happen in the Civil industry but alot of college leavers go abroad straight after college anyway.

podgemk

I'd like to go abroad aswell so I wouldn't mind. My uncle (civil engineer) has been in Canada a few years now and from what I've heard he's making good money !

shanered

Since everybody is just bing depressing and suggesting you go abroad rather then stick it out here, maybe aero, then!
I was similar to your think ended doing civil, think aero would be great though, maybe too many people in building trades not enough jobs and aero is on the rise, Ireland has a booming aircraft rental sector and im sure there is a decent oppertuinity in aero.
Excuse my spelling!
But you need to ask yourself, are you more interested in buildings/construction or aircraft.
Its a simple enough choice other than that get ready for enjoable physics and maths that goes along with understanding your choice.

CompositeJohn

Aero grad from UL here. Graduated in 07 and haven't had an issue with finding work and have moved jobs easily (visas & ITAR licences aside!). Did my internship/co-op in what was SR Technics in Dublin and since graduating I've worked in the industry in Belfast, Galway and I am now in the US working for a composite materials & parts manufacturer.

I can't comment on civil, although at the time I graduated it was definitely the top payer for graduates and more senior engineers, not sure what the case it now. That said there are many specialties in all disciplines, as a quick generalization most manufacturing engineers will earn less than a similarly experienced stress engineer.

Within Aero itself there are many different subsets...Maintenence/MRO, Leasing/Financial and Manufacturing being the big subsets. All with many other specializations of engineers. The availability of jobs also varies by the country depending on which sector they are strong in.

I decided early on that aircraft maintenance in an engineering role wasn't for me, I felt far more of a clerk than engineer (at the time I would have enjoyed hands on more) but I did enjoy my time there and do miss the complete aircraft aspect of it, my current employer builds components and composite materials which we ship to the aircraft manufacturer for further assembly/processing so we dont see completed airframes.

I found that manufacturing for me had a nice mix and I find it more technically challenging. I specialized in composite materials as an Materials & Process and now Manufacturing Development Engineer. By far the most rewarding aspect of my day to day is modeling a component and then overseeing it being manufactured by our technicians and coming to life so to speak. I have worked on components for everything from general aviation and jets to space launchers, uav's and military jets since graduating, and my current company make raw materials for everything from bicycle wheels to rockets and space applications so there is certainly diversity.

I have found salaries are typically better in the US, I think that goes for all engineering disciplines really, Ireland isn't bad and the UK is probably a little less again depending on exp. Keep in mind though the US has a significantly worse working environment wrt holidays etc. Office Space is certainly not fiction!!

Aerospace certainly has its hubs though, and some also depend on their specialty, ie metallic, electronics, composites, engines etc and these little clusters form. I have always seen Civil as a little more flexible for traveling the world and choosing a place to live but that could be just my view looking it. I live in Wichita Kansas, give me Colorado any day of the week!

The one real piece of advice I could give is to consider what work environment you enjoy be it cubicle/factory floor/site, the work/life balance and your interest in the discipline, not just salary. Engineering also has a habit of forcing you to become specialized, make sure you experience as many specializations of what ever discipline you choose before the 3-5 year mark, after that if you must, choose what specialization makes you happy. Its very difficult to spend your working life in a career or discipline you don't enjoy no matter how big the check is every week. Money is not a natural motivator for people, it helps dull the pain but really 40+ years is a long time.

And remember no one engineer designs an aircraft or building, it takes many engineers working on many small pieces of the puzzle.

CompositeJohn

Oh an just to add, don't discount Mechanical also, no reason you cant enter the aero field after doing that either, if anything mechanical is the most versatile of all engineering degrees.

And I highly recommend UL for engineering if you are staying in Ireland to study.

CatFromHue

Good post there from CompositeJohn.

Just on the mechanical thing though, I graduated from Aero Eng in 2006 but realistically I'm now a mechanical engineer.

A few of my class mates are now working in Oil and Gas so equally they could no longer be called Aero Engs.

I can't comment on Civil Eng but graduating with an Aero Eng degree doesn't pigeonhole you at all.

CompositeJohn

CatFromHue wrote: »

graduating with an Aero Eng degree doesn't pigeonhole you at all.

I agree for sure, aero is a very versatile degree, and you are definitely not restricted after graduation.

There are a few aspects of mech I would have liked to have had the opportunity to study so said I'd throw it out there when it came to mind.

In hindsight, I probably would have studied Mech and still ended up in the same position I am now, just for the sake of having a little less catchup when it came to automation etc. Also at the time Mechs studied an extra module in composites and the advanced cad class, both of which would have benefited me more than CFD etc. for my goals. I think this may have changed with the course restructure though.

EI-DOR

Great thread folks, sorry to hijack it.

I'm currently 27 and live in Northern Ireland. To date I have completed a National Diploma (Equivalent to 3x A Levels) and a Higher National Diploma in Electrical / Electronic Engineering.

My plan at the minute (while I'm single with no commitments) is to get the 2 year visa for Canada and get over there in March, work my ass of for 2 years and save as much as I can in the Construction / Oil & Gas. Reason for this is to experience Canada now and get some funds so I can do my Degree when I return home.

When I return home I want to study Aeronautical Engineering. I've been doing a lot of reading and research into this Degree on this forum and elsewhere, so I completely understand it will be one tough course and very time consuming. Hence why I'm going to Canada to save some funds up to help me through the Degree and maybe avoid doing part-time work so I can devote as much time as possible to the course.

I have been looking at the Mechanical Engineering Course, but my main Interest lies in the Aeronautical side as I have had a very big Interest in this area since I was very young. I also hold a Private Helicopter License. Fantastic machines.

My long term goal is to do a Masters in Spacecraft Engineering after the Aero Degree and "hopefully" get into that area of work.

Is there anyone on the forum that has gone down this route regarding getting into Spacecraft Engineering?

Anyway that's my plan. Hopefully all goes well!

Cheers
David

CatFromHue

I don't know anyone who's gone into Space Eng but you could have a look through Cranfield's website for more course info

http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/

Turbulent Bill

You could also contact the Space Industry Skillnet to see who's working in the industry and generate some contacts. There are quite a few Irish SMEs providing products and services to ESA.

CompositeJohn

Also look into the following from ESA, really great opportunity

http://www.esa.int/About_Us/Careers_at_ESA/Young_Graduate_Trainees

There is at least one former UL Aero graduate to have gone through this in recent years.

As was said there are many SME's in Ireland involved in ESA projects due to the funding geo return Ireland gets being part of ESA. I used to work for one and was definitely a very interesting area.

sawdoubters

civil is the way to go

EI-DOR

Thanks for the responses folks. The ESA graduate programe looks excellent indeed. That will be something to aim for in a few years. I'm sure once I get into Uni when I get back home from Canada I will learn of previous graduates who went down that route. It will definitely be an interesting line of work to get into.

I watched the "Sky at night" programe on BBC1 two weeks ago with Dara O'Briain and Prof Brian Cox. Very interesting show. Canadian Astronaut Chris Hadfield was on one of the nights talking about working on the ISS for 6 months and how to become an Astronaut ect. Very Inspiring!

CatFromHue

I think it's been posted before but one of the lecturers of the Aero course in UL went to the painstaking effort of trying to get career details of every UL Aero grad and then compiled a website with some career profiles on it.

There's a few who are in Space Eng on it

http://www2.ul.ie/web/WWW/Faculties/Science_%26_Engineering/Departments/Mechanical_%26_Aeronautical_Engineering/Courses/LM077/Profiles

EI-DOR

That is excellent. Read through the Space Engineering profiles there now. Will have a gander at the rest later. Very impressive what they've achieved!