An bheach agus an puch...

freethink3r

OK, so I read a little bit of Irish just for fun, but I'm not very good at it so bear with me. I'm reading a short story and I can't understand some of it. Little help?

"Bhí beach ag eitilt timpeall is é ag dordán go suairc meidhreach di féin lá breá brothallach samhraidh nuair a bhuail puch léi".

Is the bee a girl or a boy? I read the beginning as "The bee was flying around as he hummed...", but then the end says "when she met a wasp". I also don't understand the "go suairc meidhreach" bit. Suairc means cheerfully and meidhreach means merry. How does that translate correctly into English? You wouldn't say "cheerfully merry".

Thanks in advance

Rightwing

freethink3r wrote: »

OK, so I read a little bit of Irish just for fun, but I'm not very good at it so bear with me. I'm reading a short story and I can't understand some of it. Little help?

"Bhí beach ag eitilt timpeall is é ag dordán go suairc meidhreach di féin lá breá brothallach samhraidh nuair a bhuail puch léi".

Is the bee a girl or a boy? I read the beginning as "The bee was flying around as he hummed...", but then the end says "when she met a wasp". I also don't understand the "go suairc meidhreach" bit. Suairc means cheerfully and meidhreach means merry. How does that translate correctly into English? You wouldn't say "cheerfully merry".

Thanks in advance

Beach is prob (fir)
A lot of Irish by so called experts is absolute rubbish because they try for an exact translation. Sometimes it simply doesn't exist, never look for it.

Insect Overlord

The noun "beach" is feminine. Two of the three pronouns in the sentence agree with it (di, léi) so there's a chance the "é" is a typo. What's the next sentence in the story?

As for the "go suairc meidhreach" bit, you'll often find in Irish that adjectives aren't separated by commas like they are in English. You can see another example of it in the same sentence in "lá breá brothallach".

Rightwing wrote: »

Beach is prob (fir)
A lot of Irish by so called experts is absolute rubbish because they try for an exact translation. Sometimes it simply doesn't exist, never look for it.

Wrong, and wrong. That's awful advice.

Rightwing

Insect Overlord wrote: »

The noun "beach" is feminine. Two of the three pronouns in the sentence agree with it (di, léi) so there's a chance the "é" is a typo. What's the next sentence in the story?

As for the "go suairc meidhreach" bit, you'll often find in Irish that adjectives aren't separated by commas like they are in English. You can see another example of it in the same sentence in "lá breá brothallach".



Wrong, and wrong. That's awful advice.

I disagree, I think it's what's ruining Irish, people looking for the exact translation.

Insect Overlord

Rightwing wrote: »

I disagree, I think it's what's ruining Irish, people looking for the exact translation.

The OP is looking for a "correct" translation, not an exact/literal one.
A good translator will try to keep the spirit of the original text when they change the words from one language to another.

Rightwing

Insect Overlord wrote: »

The OP is looking for a "correct" translation, not an exact/literal one.
A good translator will try to keep the spirit of the original text when they change the words from one language to another.

Indeed, I agree with this.

freethink3r

The next sentence is: “A bheichín, a chara,” arsa an puch, “is dream de aon chinneadh sinn agus is gaolmhar sinn le chéile.

I don't know what "bheichín" is either, but I assumed it was a form of "beach". Like a little bee, maybe. The story is here:

http://comhaltas.ie/education/comhra/scealta#an_bheach_agus_an_puch

I was just looking for some stories to read because I don't have any fiction, and I don't particularly like textbooks (although I've started into "Learning Irish" by M O' Siadhail and that's not too bad.) Thanks for the help, both of you:)

An Coilean

freethink3r wrote: »

OK, so I read a little bit of Irish just for fun, but I'm not very good at it so bear with me. I'm reading a short story and I can't understand some of it. Little help?

"Bhí beach ag eitilt timpeall is é ag dordán go suairc meidhreach di féin lá breá brothallach samhraidh nuair a bhuail puch léi".

Is the bee a girl or a boy? I read the beginning as "The bee was flying around as he hummed...", but then the end says "when she met a wasp". I also don't understand the "go suairc meidhreach" bit. Suairc means cheerfully and meidhreach means merry. How does that translate correctly into English? You wouldn't say "cheerfully merry".

Thanks in advance

The gender of the bee seems to be contradicted as far as I can see, are you sure that was the sentence exactly? May just be a typo.

As for 'go suairc meidhreach'. Just because you wouldn't say 'cheerfully merry' in English, does not mean you would not say it like that in Irish. Its fairly common in Irish to put two adjectives after each other like that, its done for emphasis mainly.

Languages are not direct equilivents of each other just with different sounds, you can't translate directly from language to language.

An Coilean

Insect Overlord wrote: »

The noun "beach" is feminine. Two of the three pronouns in the sentence agree with it (di, léi) so there's a chance the "é" is a typo. What's the next sentence in the story?

Out of curiosity, if the bee happened to be a male bee, would é be correct, ie are you referencing the gender of the bee or the gender of the noun?

An Coilean

freethink3r wrote: »

The next sentence is: “A bheichín, a chara,” arsa an puch, “is dream de aon chinneadh sinn agus is gaolmhar sinn le chéile.

I don't know what "bheichín" is either, but I assumed it was a form of "beach". Like a little bee, maybe. The story is here:

A bheichín does mean 'Little Bee'

An Sionnach Glic

What's a 'puch'?

Insect Overlord

An Sionnach Glic wrote: »

What's a 'puch'?

I'm pretty sure it a non-standard spelling for wasp.

freethink3r

I think it's a wasp. I typed it into google and that's what came up. And it makes sense since beach is bee.

An Sionnach Glic

An Sionnach Glic wrote: »

What's a 'puch'?

Oh wait, another word for 'foiche' or 'wasp'. I wasn't familiar with that particular term, I have to say. It was hard to find in any dictionary as well.