Christmas Special - (Spoilers)

Patty O Furniture

Penn wrote: »

Admittedly, if there is one thing that annoys me about the Moffat era, it's the inconsistency of airtime. Fifth season was fine. Sixth was split in two parts. Seventh was split in two parts over two years. And now the Eighth will be later in the year than usual.

After the fifth season finished, they were in USA 3mths later promoting it, the next season it was shown nearer UK time. Season 7 it went global.


After watching it again, it usually clears things up as you're watching every second of it patiently & to see how & if plots are closed/explained & trying to keep away from spoilers was a nightmare including this one last month as i saw a bit of it & thought delete, delete :eek: & was still trying to figure it out & realised that rules are probably meant to be broken & The Time Lords know how to have the crack, if you'll excuse the pun!

Each Doctor is different as will Capaldi will have his own traits, as i heard someone mention that Matt Smith reminded them of Tom Baker & his eccentric ways.
As i enjoyed it more after Tennant & was strange at first with Smith but his antics grew on me, but Karen you loved straight away as she was the feisty female heroine & i suppose it was just as difficult for her as both were new together in the show & at times she took the spotlight off him!
But it was poignant that she should be the last person to say goodnight to her Raggedy Man one last time.

And as pixelburp said:

Anyway! I'll miss Smith, I already do and still feel a bit glum about that ending, the sap that I am. I'll particularly miss these kind of exchanges:

"Emergency. You're my boyfriend."
"Ding dong! Ok, brilliant. I may be a bit rusty in some areas, but I will glance at a manual!"
"No no, not actually my boyfriend."
"Oh that was quick. It's a roller-coaster, this phonecall."

That's what me made like Doctor Who more, but i think Karen was his perfect companion as the two were ideally suited to play the parts.

[*] I'm actually taken aback at some of the hostility aimed at Moffat by fans and watchers of the show. And it's not particular to Dr. Who either; I'm not always convinced the internet is a good thing for genre communities as it seems to magnify the intensity of debate and dissection. The levels of hyper-criticism can be scary sometimes

.

I did come across an article on where Moffat was bricking it over the 50th & said there were fans that are constantly disappointed! & that's the faction you look out for as well!

Mycroft H

Manly tears throughout. Never mind pulling the cracker, I was in tears at the loss of Handles. Goodbye 11

The_Valeyard

I will miss Matt Smith.

11 was my Doctor

CastorTroy

Only watched it today when I had peace. Will miss Smith. Liked Amy's cameo.

When they landed among the angels did it seem edited to anyone else? The music change and cut were very abrupt.

Speaking of the angels, how come Clara wasn't affected when 1 grabbed her?

Also anyone else think "hmmm" when they first landed on the planet with The Doctor warming Clara up followed by grabbing her when she ran from the angel? The reason for thinking that - they were both naked at the time. Could be awkward. Jammy guy!

Busi_Girl08

CastorTroy wrote: »

Only watched it today when I had peace. Will miss Smith. Liked Amy's cameo.

When they landed among the angels did it seem edited to anyone else? The music change and cut were very abrupt.

Speaking of the angels, how come Clara wasn't affected when 1 grabbed her?

Same reason she seems to remember (or at least remember that she's forgetting) the Silence. She's the Impossible Girl.

The_Valeyard

She didn't look into their eyes did she?

Penn

Rewatching the episode, I think we missed a fairly important line regarding the Doctor's death and grave we saw in Name of the Doctor.

Clara begs the Doctor to change the future, before he ascends the bell tower. The Doctor says "I could have once, when there were Time Lords, not any more..."

Clara asking the Time Lords to help him meant they didn't just give him a new set of regenerations, it meant they changed his future. The Tardis grave and "body" in Name of the Doctor was Eleven. But now the Time Lords have changed that future. Like War Doctor and Ten, their memories of it will stay the same, so Eleven and Clara will still remember it all happening, but it means it didn't actually happen, the Time Lords changed it through the crack.

Sleepy

I had this recording on the DVR and the mother had set Downton to record straight afterwards so of course I lost the last couple of minutes. The recording literally dies mid-regeneration.

Watched the Youtube clip of the regenearation is

Can you fly this thing?

the last line of the episode?

(will be re-watching next week some time anyway, was being constantly interupted while trying to watch it)

Professey Chin

Yep that's the last line

pixelburp

Penn wrote: »

Rewatching the episode, I think we missed a fairly important line regarding the Doctor's death and grave we saw in Name of the Doctor.

Clara begs the Doctor to change the future, before he ascends the bell tower. The Doctor says "I could have once, when there were Time Lords, not any more..."[...]

Good spot and good point. So the previous vision of Trenzalore, TARDIS grave et al, represent events without Clara influencing the TimeLords, which in turn she could only have done in her personal timeline after first influencing the War Doctors decision to save Gallifrey rather than burn it. I guess if you're the type who hates stories that never happened it'll annoy the series 7 finale gets wiped out, but hey, means everythings more ship shape than we think...

Doctor DooM

pixelburp wrote: »

Good spot and good point. So the previous vision of Trenzalore, TARDIS grave et al, represent events without Clara influencing the TimeLords, which in turn she could only have done in her personal timeline after first influencing the War Doctors decision to save Gallifrey rather than burn it. I guess if you're the type who hates stories that never happened it'll annoy the series 7 finale gets wiped out, but hey, means everythings more ship shape than we think...

Now that I think about it, ever since Father's Day, there has been repeated mentions "this is the way things are now, it was different when the timelords where around"...

pixelburp

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Now that I think about it, ever since Father's Day, there has been repeated mentions "this is the way things are now, it was different when the timelords where around"...

Ha, maybe this is the real reason the Time Lords are reluctant to pop out through the crack in SpaceTime, they took one look at the temporal mess our universe's in and said "noooooope. We're not cleaning that lot up"

Ginny

Ginny wrote: »

I did think it was Hurt at first, but the last few times it sounded different

Actually just re watched the wedding of river song, was it Doriums voice they used again?

Das Kitty

The piece of music from the Rings of Akathen when Amy appears has the following lyrics.

Rest now my warrior
Rest now, hardship is over.
Live. Wake up. Wake up.
And let the cloak, of life – cling to your bones.

Penn

Ginny wrote: »

Actually just re watched the wedding of river song, was it Doriums voice they used again?

It sounded more like the General from Day of the Doctor to me. Though when I was rewatching the episode, I noticed the Doctor saying he bought Handles from the "Moltavar market" (or however Dorium's surname was spelt)

Ginny

Dammit you're right! Ah it was the one thing I thought I figured out first! Boooo!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2986512/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1

Professey Chin

Das Kitty wrote: »

The piece of music from the Rings of Akathen when Amy appears has the following lyrics.

I nearly lost it at that part

And by nearly I mean did

The_Valeyard

The Dark Lord Cthulhu wrote: »

I nearly lost it at that part

And by nearly I mean did

Yeah that music and the music when Clara was reading him the poem. That nearly got me into an emotional state

campo

I am beginning to think Tasha Lem was River Song

Lem is Mel backwards
She can fly the tardis
She had to fight her inner pscyhopath
The Daleks killed her multiple times
She aged very slowly
And of course that kiss

The_Valeyard

campo wrote: »

I am beginning to think Tasha Lem was River Song

Lem is Mel backwards
She can fly the tardis
She had to fight her inner pscyhopath
The Daleks killed her multiple times
She aged very slowly
And of course that kiss

Possible...

Season 8 River escapes the library?

Das Kitty

I just think Eleven had a type.

You never know. I doubt it though.

Penn

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Possible...

Season 8 River escapes the library?

Maybe. It'd definitely have to be her from after the Library and not a previous regeneration, as we saw all those. But it makes very little sense that she'd be above Trenzalore for over 300 years, plus however long passed between older Doctor and really old Doctor at the end, knowing that he was dying, and never revealing herself to be River. Like I said before, I'd much prefer her to remain as being a new character. River's story is over, and she was far more a part of Eleven's story than she could be for Twelve's.

Doctor DooM

And when 11s hour ended, the world had changed forever.


For now, whenever a female character who had a somewhat obscured past appeared, the clan of R had a new member.

No more would they be a Regenerated Rani or a Regenerated Romana, for now she might also be Regenerated River.

Killer_banana

Also Stephen Moffat tends to write similar female characters over and over again.

It would make no sense for her to be River. We saw River as a child who then regenerated into Mel who then regenerated into the River we know. That River then used all her regenerations to heal the Doctor meaning she has no further incarnations (unless the Timelords gave her more regenerations but I feel her story is pretty much over so I doubt it).

Doctor DooM

Killer_banana wrote: »

Also Stephen Moffat tends to write similar female characters over and over again.

I always think people are too harsh on Moffat with this.

Amy, for example, is like a spoilt child, who always gets what she wants, to the point where several people I know heavily dislike the character.

Clara to me seems to be the global opposite, very caring, more similar to Donna really, and is one of the first companions to have the simple smarts to go "ok" when the Doctor says stay in the Tardis. She's not all "Adventure, tee hee hee!" when there's clearly something scary enough to worry this being who legendarily killed the two most powerful races on his own about. That made me like Clara on its own.

She also has what I like to call "Peter Parker syndrome" in that she's a genius who sadly never reaches her potential.

The fact that she's always the person who saves the Doctor- REALLY always, did it again on Christmas- is a nice change too.

Especially from River, who yes has psychopathic tendencies to the point where the Daleks are scared of her. She's clearly designed to be a confused mess of contradictions, half human, half timelordy, in love with the Doctor yet designed to be a weapon to kill him, trapped but more free than she's ever been towards the end of her life. I can't see how this makes her in any way similar to the other two main female characters of the Moffat run.

Then you have Jenny and Vastra...

Apolloyon

Now here's something to think about. Not whether Tasha Lem is River Song. Not whether Eleven's tomb being on Trenzalore has been undone. But something so subtle that not a single person has commented on it. It went right under everyone's radar.

So I have your attention now? Good.

Clara Oswald's mother was a dark haired woman who died aged 44 on March 5th 2005. So who is the blonde woman Clara calls Mum and who bought those rather interesting Christmas crackers?

And before you say 'timey wimey ball'. Remember that nothing so far has indicated that Clara's interaction with the Doctor's timeline would affect her own. It would have been mentioned already.

Did Steven Moffat forget? Unlikely.

A Stepmother? Possible but unmentioned so far.

Or an ever so subtle set up for Season 8? We shall have to see...

Professey Chin

^^
Dear God........I didn't even cop that

Apolloyon

Apolloyon wrote: »

Clara Oswald's mother was a dark haired woman who died aged 44 on March 5th 2005. So who is the blonde woman Clara calls Mum and who bought those rather interesting Christmas crackers?

Stepmother?

edit: she calls your man "dad" yeah but I can't find anywhere she calls yer wan "mum"

Das Kitty

bluewolf wrote: »

Stepmother?

edit: she calls your man "dad" yeah but I can't find anywhere she calls yer wan "mum"

I didn't hear her mention Mum at all. I still need a re-watch though.

Penn

Apolloyon wrote: »

Now here's something to think about. Not whether Tasha Lem is River Song. Not whether Eleven's tomb being on Trenzalore has been undone. But something so subtle that not a single person has commented on it. It went right under everyone's radar.

So I have your attention now? Good.

Clara Oswald's mother was a dark haired woman who died aged 44 on March 5th 2005. So who is the blonde woman Clara calls Mum and who bought those rather interesting Christmas crackers?

And before you say 'timey wimey ball'. Remember that nothing so far has indicated that Clara's interaction with the Doctor's timeline would affect her own. It would have been mentioned already.

Did Steven Moffat forget? Unlikely.

A Stepmother? Possible but unmentioned so far.

Or an ever so subtle set up for Season 8? We shall have to see...

I just presumed Stepmother. It probably would have made the dialogue a bit clunky trying to explain it in a scene.