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Controllers for helos/jets?
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18-11-2013 5:09pm#1
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Gave the M+K setup a go tonight, but with the roll and yaw axes swapped around on the mapping. Seems to work really well.... right up until the havok ambushes the Z-9 and panic sets in because I have no gunners
I used to always use my MS precision pro joystick but recently i tried mouse+kb and im finding it fine.
Make no mistake i was allover the place at first.0 -
I think it was the axis mappings that had me messed up - roll and yaw in a BF4 helo do very different things to roll and yaw in a BF4 jet, not to mention that in "real" flight sims, the controls are completely different as well -- there's an entire control axis missing from BF4 helos (the collective) and BF4 helos are very "floaty" as a result. For example, how do you drop your altitude in a BF4 helo quickly? The answer's going to be something like a roll or pitch or cutting your throttle, all of which affect your altitude as a secondary effect, which means that it's going to be slower (which matters in that moment where you realise you're too high to go under the railway bridge in Golmud
If you remember the Apache Longbow sims and the like, the answer there was to push down the collective and that dropped you immediately, it was direct control over your lift. You were a lot more maneuverable as a result. Mind you, the BF3 helos were even worse, BF4's a massive improvement on those.0 -
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Real ones do have a throttle, it's often built into the collective lever as a twist-type throttle control on smaller helicopters:
Don't know how it works on larger helicopters, but it's under fly-by-wire control in some (with tragically infamous bugs in some). And in most of the "proper" helo sims, helo flight is modelled that way and the flight characteristics are very different to BF4.0 -
Oh I know, I've plenty of real world experience with helicopters.
The point is that the throttle and the collective both primarily affect lift, via rpm and rotor pitch respectively. Both are coupled since you need to match rpm to rotor pitch to prevent stall. It's not too different to an automatic gearbox I guess.
So for the most part cyclic, collective and rudders are all you should really need once you have the right flight model.
That said both the jets and helis are far too heavily damped and dumbed down in both BF3 and 4, many of the modern jets are super agile and highly unstable in reality yet they fly like training aircraft. (I know it's not supposed to be realistic) Ideally I would like to see fighter jets have a much higher minimum speed and be difficult to aim allowing for better dogfighting and making the slow moving attack aircraft difficult targets. Attack aircraft should be pretty slow but pack a massive punch but have some mechanic requiring time to set up your attack, cannon spin up time or requiring low flying or something.
Of course this is probably horribly unbalanced and would require a much bigger area for jets.0 -
Lucky rich gitOh I know, I've plenty of real world experience with helicopters.
Give them an ammo limit the way that infantry has, only (obviously) several thousand rounds, rather than a hundredthe slow moving attack aircraft difficult targets. Attack aircraft should be pretty slow but pack a massive punch but have some mechanic requiring time to set up your attack, cannon spin up time or requiring low flying or something. 0 -
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On a related tangent, I went hunting for any tactical tips on how to use the BF4 helos on youtube and had almost zero luck. Lots and lots of "here's how you fly" videos (which all seem to be the same 10-second explanation of how you pitch forward to go forward and so forth). A few "tactics" videos which are nothing more than "how you fly" videos pretending to be something else. And that was it.
What I'm thinking of is one or more of:- Examples of training routines to use to sharpen helo skills, like the ones I use:
- circle strafing the central building in the test range while firing into all layers of it continously until it collapses, all from as close a range as possible
- hitting the infantry falling plates with the scout helo's miniguns, bobbing and weaving after every plate falls and diving off to the far end of the range when the miniguns run dry and covering at zero feet over the water behind the rocks for the minigun recharge, then repeating
- the same falling plate routine, but from the other end of the range so you sneak up on the plate from behind their backstops, pop up or around the backstop, hit the plates, then move on
- Examples of tactics that actually work in "real games" Like, traffic patterns in shanghai, dodging routines, that sort of thing
There's just a dearth of examples of the stuff you'd like to learn once you have basic movement more or less working. Anyone got any suggestions?0 - Examples of training routines to use to sharpen helo skills, like the ones I use:
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Er, no. They're too slow, too underpowered (if your primary attack mode is popping up over cover, blowing stuff up and ducking back down, a slow rate of climb is just a liability), and underarmoured (the transport helos take more of a pounding before blowing up for heaven's sake). Not to mention that the unlocks are overpowering - a base level attack helo versus a fully unlocked attack helo is not a contest where equal levels of skill results in equal chances of successattack choppers are awesome.
Don't get me wrong, flying them in maps like Shanghai or Dawnbreaker is a load of fun, but it usually comes to a frustrating end where you know you wouldn't have had your whole day ruined if the real thing had been modeled a bit more closely.0 -
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Wrong on so many levels...
I've been using M+K now for a few days, it seems to be working so much better since I swapped the axes around, but this just arrived today so I'll be trying it out to see can I improve on that (more to follow)...
(Not bad for fifteen quid off ebay...)0 -
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