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Monday: 9 miles
Tuesday: am 7 miles
pm 2 miles walk/run
Wednesday: 7 miles
Thursday: 6 miles hilly
Friday: 5 miles
New type of session! Dropped off a kayak on the river. Drove another 5 miles down and left the car. Ran 5 miles back, set up the kayak and paddled down to pick up the car! I met a shoal of sturgeon making its way up the river. I moved over to see what was causing the wake against the flow of the river. Over two feet long (and I'm no fisherman !).
Great way to spend a Friday afternoon !
There were a few rougher patches on the way but I wasn't risking trying to stop for a photo during them !
Saturday: 6 miles very slow run/walk
Out with Mrs P.
Sunday: 15 miles
Included 6 at 7.20-740 pace.
Week: 57 miles. All easy but building back up again. My feeling is that I need to get more race pace work done during the week. Post race I think I'm enjoying my running too much ....and maybe not stressing the systems enough to get the benefit. So I'm going to start increasing the intensity.
I.e. tempo and PMP paced runs.
I may need to go back to doing my long runs solo. The weekend group tends to divide between the ex-track jocks who hold a low 7/high 6 minute pace, and the 100+ mile a week guys who trot along at 9.00+ pace, and a few others who stop after 7/8 miles. None of these really suit me. I'd like to mix up the paces a bit more.0 -
Monday: 5-6 miles run/5-6 miles kayak
Great day !!
Tuesday: 8+ miles w/4 @MPHR
Hot (85f at kickoff time) and humid (50%) with an air quality alert.. so my planned MP/tempo pace session seemed ... ambitious. Dusted off the HRM and decided to aim for a set of miles at MP heart rate (~140-145 from a few years ago).
So:
mile/hr/pace
1/141/7.16 :cool:
2/145/7.39
3/148/7.48
4/148/7.47
5/147/7.55
Fadeoraaaaaama !! Yikes, that went south pretty fast slowly.
Confirms that work on tempo/mp paces is needed.0 -
Wednesday: 7+ miles easy
Thursday: 11 miles.
The heat/humidity was tough.
Friday: 5miles+
I recently had my Garmin battery replaced. Unfortunately the glue used to put it back together did not hold... so this was a Garmin less run before I attempted to super glue myself to the floor.
Saturday: am 9 miles, hilly
pm: 6 miles run walk.
The morning run was a lot tougher than I expected. The humidity had dropped so I was expected a much easier run. However I overslept and did not hit the road until noon. That sizzling was not the local barbecue - I fried ! To add to my error I chose to do take on the hilliest loop. But too late and too stubborn I ploughed on. The HR redlined on the hills but I was happy that I was able to recover on the downslopes. The HR maxed out when I met an unaccompanied German sheppard who took exception to my being near his house.
This stuff really ticks me off - why the f** can people not control their pets. This is the second time I have had problems on this route so sadly I think I am going to start carrying a pepper spray.
PM: Easy, easy with Mrs P where the local deer where the only widelife highlight.
Sunday: 17 miles
Cool at 7am but very humid with a morning fog reducing visibiity. Decent run. Happy to get two solid back-to-back runs in. Again trying to keep the HR well below marathon levels.
Week: 68 miles. Happy enough with that ... mileage picking up a bit. Paces are still off what I want but given that the summer is now leaking into September I have to trust that the effort as reflected by the HR will pay off.0 -
Monday: kayak
Tuesday: 12 miles w 3@MP(7.30)&3@tempo(7.00) + 2@MP, swim
With a gym available I decided to duck the heat and retreat to the treadmill. Short swim to cool down.
Wednesday: 6 miles- easy 8.30-9.30, swim
Back to the gym
Thursday: 15.5 miles
Cooler but very very humid. Wanted to do along hilly run but the dog encounter I am nervous about returning to my preferred route.
Middle 5 miles included long drags which I need to do more off before NY. HR soared for the last few miles. Despite everything, my endurance is still suspect.
I think my weight may be the primary thing holding me back. Running shirtless in these temps I am aware of my muffin-top profile !0 -
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Well, well, well....a good week for you in many respects!! So happy for you. And I love your addition of the kayak - cross training is brilliant for so many reasons. But the dog thing is really annoying - I was chased by a brute of a dog a few weeks back, and when I realized I was losing ground fast, I stopped, turned, made myself as big as possible and started screaming at him. I'm sure I looked certifiable, but it worked. I later found out that the dog had been deemed "dangerous" in a court of law after he had attacked a child. :eek:
Oh...and, um, no...if you are suggesting to not use any kind of nutrition in your marathon, then no, that really doe not sound like a very good idea at all. Perhaps you need to use more nutrition in your training to acclimate your body. ?? Or, maybe you should consider having your nutrition customized for you. I've not done this, but I do know a gal (endurance/ultra runner friend) who has, and she swears by it. Here's a link - I think this is the outfit she uses -
https://www.infinitnutrition.us0 -
Well, well, well....a good week for you in many respects!! So happy for you. And I love your addition of the kayak - cross training is brilliant for so many reasons.
Yeah, it's useful core work, but primarily it is amazing out on the river - at least when the damn wave runners are not buzzing you. I did not mention the undignified launch that cost me a pair of rather expensive running shades.But the dog thing is really annoying - I was chased by a brute of a dog a few weeks back, and when I realized I was losing ground fast, I stopped, turned, made myself as big as possible and started screaming at him. I'm sure I looked certifiable, but it worked. I later found out that the dog had been deemed "dangerous" in a court of law after he had attacked a child. :eek:
Yikes. That is not good at all. And it is still roaming loose ? It's probably similar here (our PA border place) it rural. and there is little if nay foot traffic, so if you have a problem there is nowhere to shelter. In my case I think the dog was young and might have been as startled as I was. Still I have not run that route since. Just curious - many of the runners around here carry sprays against the geese - any experience with this stuff. Hate to use it but ... this has happened too often.Oh...and, um, no...if you are suggesting to not use any kind of nutrition in your marathon, then no, that really doe not sound like a very good idea at all. Perhaps you need to use more nutrition in your training to acclimate your body. ?? Or, maybe you should consider having your nutrition customized for you. I've not done this, but I do know a gal (endurance/ultra runner friend) who has, and she swears by it. Here's a link - I think this is the outfit she uses -
https://www.infinitnutrition.us
That's interesting (the link) - would probably need some experimenting.
I did find a discussion this week (from the 2015 novices thread)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057175450
and
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96884876&postcount=4013
Food for thought (pun intended). Maybe the early gels are the best idea. The other line of thought is that taking a gel early triggers the body to focus on running on glycogen rather than fat. Not sure ... the inability to get nutrition into the system in the last 1/4 of the marathon is a constant in my races.0 -
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Sunday: 19 miles. Pace: 8.19
Tough enough. Friday's efforts were still in the legs. Luckily enough of the Sunday running group had put in massive efforts on Saturday that they were unable to drop me as soon as usual
Week: 71 miles. Happy enough with this given the way real life keeps getting in the way. Hopefully I can still continue the momentum.0 -
Monday: 14 miles easy Pace: 8.35
I went out intending to a 8 miles at recovery pace. I decided to run a recently reopened section of tow path (which I had run on Sunday). About a half a mile before I expected to turn around my mind was wandering a little when I suddenly ran into a work crew. Well, they saw me, moved two trucks, stopped digging in the canal with the front loader and waved me through. I smiled, waved thanks ... and silently cursed as I realised that now turning around would require running through the work area again in about 8 minutes. Being too embarrassed to face that, I resigned my self to another 4 miles north to the next bridge which would allow me cross the river to the parallel canal tow path for the return journey. So this was not quite the "recovery" that I was looking for. By mile 13, the HR was getting close to MP level ... which after 19 miles the day before is .. ok, maybe ?
Tuesday: ~8 miles. Pace: 8.25
Ok, finally some recovery !
Wednesday: 14 miles, 2w/u, 5@MP+4@tempo+1.5@MP+1.5w/d
Pain day - I really dread these sessions, really just a mental hangup.
Tempo pace was adjusted slightly with a view to pace for the upcoming 18 miler ... so definitely on the slower end of the range. Anything staring with 6 was fine.
MP1: 7.30, 7.20, 7.19, 7.24, 7.30
Tempo: 6.52, 6.49, 6.54, 6.48
MP2: 7.21, 7.30(.5)
MP miles were ok, but started to struggle after 1.5 tempo miles.0 -
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And pretty interesting discussion about gels. Definitely food for thought!
http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Comparison_of_Energy_Gels is another interesting link, though I am already using Hammer which is supposedly one of the easier gels to take.
Thursday: 5 miles run.
Run-Kayak routine.
Friday: 10 hilly miles miles 690 feet.
A route that incorporates the a route that is known locally as the "Rosemont" loop. As I climbed it again on the return leg I had a vision of the movie of my life. Just before the closing titles start someone asks : "I wonder that Rosemont means".
Saturday: 10 miles recovery
Largely successful attempt to keep the HR in the 11x range.
Sunday: 18 miles @8.20
Largely easy pace, picked it up again at the end. I declined the opportunity to join a couple who wanted to drop to a much faster pace. I might have gone if they had warmed up a bit more.
Week: 79 miles (actually at 18.52 miles today I was very disciplined not to run around the house for .48 miles to make 80 for the week!). Happy with quantity and quality this week. Looking at the efforts being put in by Sunday bunch put things in perspective (100+ weeks, 20@7.30 etc).0 -
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Saturday: 4 miles very easy w/8 strides
Sunday: 13 miles @8.08 w/6*strides (.08 of a mile - slight miscalculation!)
Couple of miles at near race pace, then finished off with some strides, but the on-fly-arithmetic was a bit off and these seem to have been closer to 400m than 100m, more fartlek than stride. Hopefully with the same benefit on leg turn over.
I mentioned this log to one of my running mates this morning and he expressed an interest in reading it. I may have to devote a week or two to looking back and re-editing in case I said anything rude about the wonderful bunch of renaissance people I have the honour of running with each week.
Week: 60 mies ... about right for a half week training/half week taper. Looking back 12 months I see I ran a 20 all under 8.00 at this stage. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92500153&postcount=181 Cannot imagine doing that today, but logic suggests that with a year of solid work I should be fitter. So I'll trust the logic and hope it will all be alright on the night. RHR this morning was 44 - lowest in a while but there is still more work to be done to get back to the level of four years ago.
**Yes, re reading this I can confirm that this last paragraph does read like ... "when I were a lad...."0 -
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Sunday: LBI Miler, 2.08.41, Pace: 7.08, 28th, 1st AG
Back to Long Beach Island for the second year running. Last year I missed the AG podium by 6 seconds so I felt had unfinished business. The run up to the race was not ideal. It was supposed to be a weekend away ... but Mrs P had to bow out due to work issues so I was solo. With the ankle issue and generally not feeling great during the week I was a pretty nervous.
My plan was a pace ~7.20 for the first 5 miles and then hopefully to pick things up. I was thinking 7.15 seems like a reasonable target ... and maybe a 2.10.xx would be a decent goal and give me a shot at some bling. Funnily enough chatting to a guy before the race I began to think about the T.S.Elliot quote:
"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go."
I got this on a running shirt for Mrs P a few years ago. In running, for me, it means you have to risk blowing up to ever push on. So I probably lined up with a more aggressive mind set than usual. Conditions were better this year - it was a little warmer than ideal, but critically the head wind seemed to drop during the race (it's a pancake flat, point-to-point race northbound on a Atlantic barrier island so wind conditions rule all).
I was pretty disciplined for the first five miles though faster than intended. I was not sure 18 miles was sustainable at this pace, and had in the back of my mind that I could slow to 7.20.
7.10, 713, 7.07, 7.15, 7.14,
With the head wind there was a lot of drafting - I did some myself ... but I draw the line when I can feel you breathing on shoulder :eek:. And what is with the guy who insisted on running right beside me for a mile .... eventually I slowed up to shake him and he went to annoy someone else.
7.05, 7.07, 7.10, 7.09, 7.06
Second five miles I decided to let the body do what it could. Again I was not sure I could manage this, and wondered if I was working too hard. By now the field was spread out (annoying guy had ducked into a toilet), but I was still reeling people in slowly ... maybe one or two a mile.
7.11, 7.09, 7.04, 7.06, 7.04,
During this five miles I chilled a bit at the beginning but gradually my pace picked up again. Crowd support was great ... when you are alone it's great to have people start cheering when you come into view. Annoying guy arrived again ... and having p**sed me off for half a mile roared off ahead at a pace. Actually during this stretch two other guys arrived from nowhere, overtook me at and scorched ahead at a pace I'd be lucky to match over 400m.
7.11, 7.05, 6.52, 6.39** (.11)
My memory last year was of a steady drag in the last three miles. This time I was really not aware of it at all. I was aware that the head wind was basically gone. With a mile and half to go I caught a runner whose bright florescent green compression socks had been visible for the last few miles (actually I suspect they were visible for 10 miles out to sea). I was actually thinking I should tuck in behind him for the finish when I noticed a few grey hairs peeking under his cap. Damn .... the day before I had re read my musing on last years race http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92586957&postcount=184
but I also had Dory's telling off for settling in my head ! http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92587923&postcount=185
Combined with the 6 seconds heartbreak from last year, this meant ... this guy had to go. T.S.Elliot once again ! So I went past him just before the 17 miles marker with as much conviction as I could and tried to put as much road between us as I could. I though things were going well until a burst of cheering behind me told me that he was a lot closer than I though. Well, the last mile was a head-to-head battle (no other way would I have clocked a 6.52 mile). I just about held him off, and he eased up to give me a 15 second advantage by the finish line.
Ironically he was actually in the next age group after all that:o.
Happy with the run, actually considerably better than I expected - I did not think breaking 2.10 was realistic. 4+ minutes off last year's time and an absolute PB (albeit a rarely run distance), and a (barely) negative split. For more irony my AG was astonishingly weak so I took the AG by 20 minutes which is actually a bit disappointing (and weird).
Week: 41 miles. So the big questions is ... did I leave my NY marathon out there ? If so I can live with that. I have three weeks to recover, and get some zip back in the legs.0 -
Tuesday: am: 7.5 miles, recovery+ pace (9.10) on grass
pm: swim
Wednesday: am: 6 miles (8.52)
pm: swim
Legs starting to feel a bit more normal.
Thursday: swim + bike
Friday: am: 10 miles @8.29 w/4*strides
pm: swim
Strides were an attempt to pos the question of see how the legs would react to the injection of a little speed. Answer: kinda like they had woken up with a massive hangover. Hummmmm.
Saturday: 13 miles @8.30
Unsually I was was back in the city so joined up with my old club for what is becoming my annual reunion run. I had almost forgotten what it was like to have to stop for traffic lights ! I did notice that my ability to handle climbs and recover seems to have improved.
Sunday: 16 miles @7.50 w/5@MP
Chilly :eek:. It dropped below freezing over night so it was ... bracing ... when I stepped out at 7am. Decided to drive to the meetup point so stpped back inside to have another coffee. Now need to quickly adjust to cold. MP miles were ok ... but I took off too fast and then got faster so little help in terms of finding an MP "groove" and there is no question but that last weeks race is still in the legs... but happy that the pace is reachable.
MP (7.30) miles: 7.12, 7.20, 7.12, 7.07, 7.01 Waaaaaaaaaaay too fast.
Week: 52. Decent to reverse taper/recovery. 39 miles in 3 days I will take a short recovery tomorrow, then (depending on how I feel and what the HR suggests) two days of hill work before entering taper again.0 -
Monday: 7.5 miles, recovery Avg: 9.06
A return to warmer weather meant that any idea of taking a rest day went out the window, and I headed out the door. One thing I have done during previous tapers is to take a camera with me. Stopping to take photos keeps my recovery paces honest. So this run was easy, with stops to take the odd photo. So here they are :
The Delaware River
The tow path. Canal to the left, river to the right.
Coming back into town .... here's Boomer !!
And finally ... we really love Halloween here :
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Tuesday: ~10miles(?), hilly, Avg 8.32
Back to the hills. This is my last hard day. I noticed running an old route last week that my ability to handle and recover from hills has improved. I put a lot of it down to doing this run about once a week. I did screw up the watch, missing the start button after a photo op. I did not notice so I ended up tacking on at the end until I noticed my error. So I am guessing 10 miles. Again I took a camera and took a small detour to take photos ... didn't really get the shot I wanted due to doggie (rotweiler:eek:) issues (though in fairness the owner did leash - once he noticed me).
So here are are again:
This tree deserved a stop !
About to descend back into town again:
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O. M. G. !!!! Look at you, Mr. PB and I-won-my-age-by-20-minutes Man. Jeez, I don't check in here for a week or so due to travel and illness, and here you are just knocking the stuffing out of a race. Fan-damn-tastic! Congrats to you - I am seriously delighted for you. And you even did this without that nuclear kiss. Well done. I truly hope this brings you good things in New York.
Oh, what exactly is Boomer? (gorgeous pics, and love the Halloween decorations!) 0 -
O. M. G. !!!! Look at you, Mr. PB and I-won-my-age-by-20-minutes Man. Jeez, I don't check in here for a week or so due to travel and illness, and here you are just knocking the stuffing out of a race. Fan-damn-tastic! Congrats to you - I am seriously delighted for you. And you even did this without that nuclear kiss. Well done. I truly hope this brings you good things in New York.
Oh, what exactly is Boomer? (gorgeous pics, and love the Halloween decorations!)
Yeah, pleased with that run ... but in the interests of full disclosure, the guy I overtook in the last mile was 3rd in the next AG up :eek:. So my AG was really weirdly weak this year.
Boomer lives in our sister town on the PA side of the bridge. He also sits just as the tow path enters the town ... and he has his own website and webcam ! http://boomercam.com/
... and yeah - they are really really into Halloween here - that's a private house !
... and congrats to you on the sub12 IM.0 -
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Friday: 7.5+ easy.
Managed to run this with my reading glasses on. Knew something was not quite right but could not identify the problem until I got back home.
Saturday: 4 miles easy
Rolling hills (the creek).
Sunday: 12.5+ miles
Run got off to a dodgy start as one of the group dropped her car keys down a drain five feet below the road. Luckily I had brought the car and had my kayaking gear including a set of bungy cords. Took 30 minutes and four attempts but we finally managed to maneuver the keys onto the hook of the cord and inch it back to its owner.
The run was ok after all that ... probably a bit too fast but the HR range was largely ok ... in the 120s, with some drift into low 130s. Finished off with a few MP fartlek-like stretches in the last 1.5 miles.
Week: 53.5 Solid week - first half work, second half taper.0 -
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Are you saying you ran 7.5 miles while wearing your reading glasses by accident???:eek:!!!
Um....you must've been really focused on your running! :cool:
Or, in pre-taper madness!!!
Yes, 'faid so. I had this ....feeling that something was .... slightly "off". Mentally reviewed legs, breathing, stride, hips, foot landing .... all seemed ok. Eye wear is generally on my check list ! In fairness my grip on reality is often a little ... "loose".
Monday: 5 miles, easy
HR < 120, although not be a lot. Great day - please, please, please let this weather hold for the week.0 -
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What, when, and how much did you consume (hydration and nutrition) along the way?? And what was the air temp, was it cloudy, windy, spitting rain???
Weather was fine. Probably mid 60s at the end, no wind - much,much better conditions than last year when you ran.
The nutrition plan was to front load as far as possible, to avoid trying to force down gels post 18 when the system just was not interested, and rely instead on gatorade from that point on.
Breakfast : -5 hours: Oatmeal/Coffee
Staten Island -3 hrs Oatmeal bars + fig newtons
-1.5 hrs hours Gatorade pouch
-10mins Cliff Blok waiting at start line
Race: Ran with a small water bottle (though some was used to attempt to douse the idiots cutting across the course in Brooklyn).
7 miles, hammer gel (Intended earlier but with the congestion it did not feel safe to handle the distraction )
16 miles - gel2. (from 12-16 taking a gel on the upslope of the bridges seemed unwise)
~17-19 gatorade (began alternating gatorade and water at stops from this point on).
~20 ? half a cliff blok.
Somwhere around here the stomach said ok that's enough, and I know not to push it. This was the reason for the front loading plan.
I think the nutrition was sufficient, I'd say it was better managed than on some of my previous races. The only think I would question was why I cramped despite the gatorade and cliff blocks. In the recovery bag was a gatorade chocolate drink with a ton of potassium. After drinking this the effect on the cramps was almost instant to my amazement. But I don't really think the cramps themselves effected my running - it was more of an issue post the finish line.
My thinking is that the issue is more basic endurance than nutrition ... and maybe even mental at this point. I actually felt decent until about 23 ... although the splits from the results suggest the fade actually started ealier than I think ... though it is hard to say given the course,0 -
I don't know....I still question your nutrition and hydration. I know it's tough for all of us, especially if you have stomach issues...but what you've listed just doesn't seem sufficient to me. However, we're all different, so what works for the goose may not work for the gander.
I had the same problem after Boston back in 2013 - calf cramping after I crossed the finish line. I was using Cliff Bloks too, but ecoli pointed out they are not a good source of electrolytes. I was not taking in enough Gatorade. The peeps in the medical tent gave me the option of being hooked up to an IV, or downing a bottle of Gatorade. I chose grape Gatorade.
But back to your nutrition - with your eating issues after 18 miles, you may want to look into trying out that custom nutrition. The gal who is helping me with my training uses their products in her IronMan races - she swears by them, and her tummy is pretty finicky. You also might want to give those Quick Discs a try. I'll send you a few containers if you'd like - just pm me your address.
And, I know you're disappointed in your performance here, but don't be. It was an experience for you - and one you will no doubt learn from. I don't believe a window is closing for you at all - I just think you need to get a few things ironed out. Enjoy running for the time being, and maybe don't count out a spring marathon with zero expectations and pressure. Do it for fun...and you might surprise yourself. Well done for all the work you've put in. And thanks for writing such an honest report. I always get a kick out of everything you write!!! 0 -
First of all, thanks for the feedback. I've been pondering this .. in fact you've home right in some of my think and feedback I got elsewhere Mrs P thanks you too as she gets a break from hearing me kick this around:o.I don't know....I still question your nutrition and hydration. I know it's tough for all of us, especially if you have stomach issues...but what you've listed just doesn't seem sufficient to me. However, we're all different, so what works for the goose may not work for the gander.
Interestingly, two other people who texted me post race also asked about nutrition so I cannot definitively rule it out. It is probably as much as I have ever taken. The plan going in was to take on nutrition early, but I didn't get to do this because of the congestion.
I usually do training runs (up to 22 miles) often with just water. I'd have an "emergency gel" tucked away but generally would not use it. So while I take on less that other, my feeling is that the nutrition I take should be sufficient.
E.g. I did the 18 mile race on half a baby food pouch, and some Gatorade in the last three miles.I had the same problem after Boston back in 2013 - calf cramping after I crossed the finish line. I was using Cliff Bloks too, but ecoli pointed out they are not a good source of electrolytes. I was not taking in enough Gatorade. The peeps in the medical tent gave me the option of being hooked up to an IV, or downing a bottle of Gatorade. I chose grape Gatorade.
Interesting. Tbh, I don't think I've never looked at the actual contents of a Cliff Blok. I didn't take/focus on electrolytes as the condition were so mild. But I did notice a layer of salt on my skin post race. That's probably a fixable error.
Generally I have been told don't mix Gatorade with the gels as it is just too much to digest, so I wait until I'm done with gels before hitting the Garorade. I also worry about this stuff as the Gatorade is usually made from a mix and you can never predict the consistency from one water stop to another.But back to your nutrition - with your eating issues after 18 miles, you may want to look into trying out that custom nutrition. The gal who is helping me with my training uses their products in her IronMan races - she swears by them, and her tummy is pretty finicky. You also might want to give those Quick Discs a try. I'll send you a few containers if you'd like - just pm me your address.
I looked into the QuickDisc stuff. It takes 5 discs to match the contents of one Hammer Gel :eek:. I'll get a pack and try if but that seems like it would require eating taking them over a long period of the race.
There is some other stuff called UCan that some of the guys here (including a woman trying to make the Olympic Marathon Trial) swear by.
It's clearly something I need to try. I think the only real way to test options out is by going the marathon distance in training (23+) and seeing how it goes. From this http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/fixing-the-fade
I have tried #1 and #2 (to some extent) ... so option #3 remains.And, I know you're disappointed in your performance here, but don't be. It was an experience for you - and one you will no doubt learn from.
Yeah, but at the same time, continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results does not make much sense. At this point ( despite having lots of space time to train, two injury free years ) I have to admit I am now a 3.3x marathon runner, and there is no real satisfaction in that. At other distances I have managed to return to within touching distance of my old times and can be age competitive - at least locally.I don't believe a window is closing for you at all - I just think you need to get a few things ironed out. Enjoy running for the time being, and maybe don't count out a spring marathon with zero expectations and pressure. Do it for fun...and you might surprise yourself. Well done for all the work you've put in. And thanks for writing such an honest report. I always get a kick out of everything you write!!!
Now it's time to focus on shorter stuff for a while. I cannot see myself signing up for a spring marathon unless something changes. I'm just not sure what purpose it would serve ... More likely, I will target a HM - oddly, I have not done that distance in years and it's in my "better" range.
Most immediately is the challenge of getting up and down the ladder to take down the Halloween decorations :eek::o:D
EDIT: Yikes, this got long.0 -
I absolutely love the HM distance, so go for it!! But, " 'better' range "?? Hmmm, one way to look at that could be: get your nutrition properly sorted and we might prove that statement wrong.
Send my regards to the lovely Mrs. P. Maybe all you needed was one of her atomic kisses at mile 20 or 22. Tell her next time she needs be waiting and puckered to give you that final boost to see you through to the finish line! Who needs food when you've got hot, steamy love?!:D 0 -
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Dory devil.
Look, you only live once...so if you want to go and do Connemara with your niece, then why not?? What an incredible experience and joy it will be for you. Just go and enjoy it. Forget about everything else - just enjoy running with your family in your home country. Do if for the love of doing it - nothing more, nothing less. I promise you, you won't regret it. (as my dear mother would say, "this ain't no dress rehearsal!") Grab this fantastic opportunity! 0 -
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Dory devil.
Look, you only live once...so if you want to go and do Connemara with your niece, then why not??
Well ... because it would means saying good bye to Boston for yet another year (I'm not going to BQ in Connemara), it means missing several local races that I really like, it's tough logistically, with no income it's a bit of an expense but if I do get a new job it is going to be tough to make the time, it's a struggle to train over winter (especially down at "training camp #2" where there are very few street lights - even in town), and no gym.
Other than that ... no reason at all.What an incredible experience and joy it will be for you. Just go and enjoy it. Forget about everything else - just enjoy running with your family in your home country. Do if for the love of doing it - nothing more, nothing less. I promise you, you won't regret it. (as my dear mother would say, "this ain't no dress rehearsal!") Grab this fantastic opportunity!
Well... if you promise (pinky swear ?)...how can I say no.
We are leaning towards doing it, but need to figure out the logistics.
If we go I need to learn some lessons from NY.
Nutrition (again!)
This is the first question I have been asked by most people. It's true that nutrition did not follow the plan. It's also true that I did not feel any particular benefit from the gels .. in fact looking at the splits it made me wonder if the gels might be doing more harm than good. I do most of training runs (up to 22 miles) without gels without a problem. Looking the content of gets they contain this stuff call maltodextrin. I'm throwing out a question on this elsewhere http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97671244#post97671244. Right now I am tossing around either going without gels ... or making my own, maybe based on raisins if I can handle the fiber side effects and figure out how to create something useable in a hotel room.
Electrolytes
One mistake for sure was failing to take on electrolytes during the race. As it was cool I did not really give this any thought. The cramps at the end suggest this was a mistake.
Training plan
Probably I did not get down to structured work early enough, and probably did not do enough MP miles (though the 18 mile race suggests that the endurance and speed should have been there). I'm going back to basics and digging up the P&D 18/70 plan again. I will extent this
- going to do one 26 mile run a month. This will allow me come to some conclusion about nutrition.
- need to focus on LT miles. This is my least favorite session and therefore almost certainly my weakest session.
Hills:
If I struggled on the NY course I really need to prep for the Connemara course. Thing is I did an almost weekly hilly run - so I though I was well set for hills ... but again the splits say different (GPS not available but results show 8.30 pace coming up the 59th bridge which is slower than I would have thought.).
Pace
Heading into NY, I got carried away. I need to be more realistic about pace.
Ok with that said...
This was my baaaaaaaaaaaaaaddd week. Beer, ice cream, chocolate ...I did it all.
Monday-Tuesday: Walked several. Legs were quite sore ... much of it the after effects of the cramping. I took a look at the Clif Blok and yes, they don't contain anymore sodium/potassium than an average gel.
Thursday: 4 miles recovery
Legs still sore
Friday : bike, 14 miles
Saturday: 6 miles walk/run
Sunday: 10 miles easy
Most of the group are preping for marathons in the next two weeks so it was very relaxed with breaks.
I must still be in shape as over dinner our guest's the consensus was that a) my marathon was "amazing" and b) I looked like ****. Result !
So ... assuming we are aiming for Connemara, 22 weeks to go.0 -
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^^^
... I wonder what the rest of that sentence would have beenMy first. Not sure what happened there.
Friday was taken up with a five hour+ interview ( this seems to be standard length now ...don't they know I'm an old geezer and need my nap ?).
Saturday: 9 miles, .... way to fast !
Joined up with my old club mates again. Did not feel good at all on this run, and on the serious climb the HR was pushing the high 140s. A month ago I sailed up while holding a conversation... today was a struggle and I was dropped pretty early on. After rejoining a sub group the HR was still higher than I wanted or expected so I deliberately dropped off the pace and took the opportunity to bag the run early. Combination of interview fatigue and lack of sleep, I guess.
Sunday: 12 miles
Joined up with a guy tapering for the first 8 miles, so it was easy enough to keep the HR low (<120). After I left him I upped the HR to the 130 level to see roughly where 75% of HR put me in terms of pace. (8.20-30 roughly).
Intended to hit 15 miles but I had to call it at 12 in order to go cheer some of my usual Sunday group on at the local marathon (including the female winner).
Week: 51. Other than strange runs on Saturday and Wednesday, just about an ok week. I though my milage would end a little higher.0 -
Ok, I am offically calling this the start of the planning of Project Connemara.
I am going to try out Hadd's training method http://www.angio.net/personal/run/hadd.pdf with an eye on this attempt to translate to a plan http://www.trainingscience.net/?page_id=326 Basically I'm trying this out as I fit the pattern described exactly as my marathon times have always looked poor relative to my shorter distances, and now this tail off has become downright embarrassing.
I'm diving this into phases. The base building will be 8 weeks. I'm thinking that if by the end of eight weeks I hate this, or don't feel it working (and yes I know eight weeks is too short a time to judge), I can switch to a P&D 12 week program. It's also complicated because Mrs P wants us to do an 8k in a week and half, so this will disrupt things a bit.
Ok so here is the plan for the first 8 weeks.
Day|Plan|HR|Type
Mon | 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 | 120 | recovery/rest*** |
Tue | short warmup + <=10 mile | 140 | subtempo* |
Wed | 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 | 120 | recovery |
Thu | 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 | 130 | easy |
Fri | short warmup + <=10 mi sub | 140 | subtempo*/or hills |
Sat | 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 | 120 | recovery |
Sun | 2-3 hrs easy | 125 | long** |
*subtempo:
These are runs at a defined HR, stopping at 10 miles, or once HR drift starts. Warmup will probably be two miles as it usually takes that long for the HRM to give a sensible response.
I'm going to set an absolute upper limit for pace for these runs ... Once I exceed this I'm going to call the subtempo miles and try to drop back to recovery.
Phase 1: HR in range 137-142. Pace (to detect drift) <7.55 ( arbitrary and conservative ... will adjust downwards )
Once every two weeks at minimum a hill run will be substituted. I'll try to keep the HR broadly in line.
**long:
Once a month a 24+miles run will be attempted inorder to test nutrition etc, etc. at
***rest: Once every two weeks there will a day off. There will always be a rest day following the extra long (24+ miles) run.
HR Ranges:
70% - 120 recovery
75% - 129 easy
80%-83% - 137-142 subtempo - step 1
82%-85% 141-146 subtempo - step 2
85%-88% 145-151 subtempo - step 3
87%-90% 149-154 subtempo - step 4
Hopefully weekly mileage will be in the 70+ miles range.
Starts tomorrow. 21 weeks ... how can I possibly fail. In eight weeks I'll look at the next step, but I am hoping not to have to think about this before that. 0 -
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Myles Splitz wrote: »If you are going down the extra long route here I would make sure to incorporate good hip strengthening work (Myrtle, McHenry, KineticRevolution Challenge etc)
Good strong, fatigue resistant hips will help make sure you come through these long runs unscatted
Best of luck with the training
Cheers ...I am nervous about the extra long runs but I don't see any other way to experiment reliably with nutrition (yes, this could get messy). I had to google some of these routines. Hate doing this stuff tbh, but you are right especially with my pre existing hip issues.
Btw, only now have I realized who your previous boards incarnation was. Nice to see you back !0 -
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Forgot to "resst" the watch so Saturday/Sunday is approx as the runs are combined
Saturday: 7.5 miles @8.50(ish), HR: 118-124(121) (Galena)
Recon for a new route with rolling hills. A bit of a drive but a good prep for Connemara. Happy with this run, as despite the rolling terrain I was able to keep the HR around the target and see it recover from the climbs.
Sunday : 17 miles Pace: ~8.15 ish HR: 130 ish
I joined up with my usual Sunday crowd, and let this one get out of hand. Target was a HR of 125 ... was within margin of error for first 9 miles, then it slid into the 130s, then the mid 130s, the the high 130s. The pace varied from 8.1x to 7.49.
Even on the last three miles solo I was not able to recover back to the 120s again. Seriously blew the "squeeze the tube from the bottom" Hadd philosophy today. I ended attempting to squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube - a messy and doomed effort. Much as I like my Sunday group I think I need to ditch them for a while.
Week1:
Day|Plan |MaxHR |type |--|Time |Miles |HRRange(Avg)|Pace
Mon | 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 | 120 | walk/run | | 0.30 | 2.5+ | - | 10.30
| | | recovery | | 0.72 | 8 | 119-122(121) | 9.18
Tue | short warmup + <=10 mile | 140 | subtempo | | | 14(8 subtempo) |
Wed | 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 | 120 | run/walk | | 0.33 | 3 | |
| | | recovery | | 0.55 | 6 | 119-122(121) | 9.01
Thu | 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 | 130 | easy | | | 7.5 | 130-138(134) |
Fri | short warmup + <=10 mi sub | 140 | subtempo | | | 10.5(9 subtempo) | 140-142(141) | 7.29
Sat | 1 x 60-75 or 2x40 | 120 | recovery | | 1.05 | 7.5+ | 118-124(121) | 8.50?
Sun | 2-3 hrs easy | 125 | long | | 2.25 | 17 | 124-139(130) | 8.15?
Total| | | | | | 74 | |
Couple of observations:- Lost the plot complete in terms of HR on a couple of runs. Must do better
- Although the plan looks easy enough the sub tempo runs are hard enough, and the mileage involved is deceptively high. I broke the 10% rule by some distance this week. Hopefully since I was in the 70s before NY I can sustain this but I am going to be ultra cautious, and will probably dial it back it bit. Edit: 5 of the miles were run/walk with Mrs P at glacially slow pace so maybe should not really count against the total.
Just tucking this link away here for future reference (the profile on the GPS profile is no longer visible)
https://connect.garmin.com/page/activity/splits.faces?activityId=295136223&cid=11329020
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