Zodiac; the best film of the past 10 years? If not, what is?

Tipsy McSwagger

youtube! wrote: »

Cant admit to seeing every horror ever made but from your list I saw The Ring and Grudge, I thought the Ring was excellent ,grudge no so much.

I will check out the others you have posted. When it comes down to it though almost every time I see a new horror I am invariably left disappointed, I can tell what's coming a mile off and they all seem so contrived to me.

I was genuinely surprised by just how incredible of a film the Conjuring was though, as I said earlier it really did chill me to the bone.... and for days afterwards and that just doesn't happen with very many films,sure I enjoy lots of horrors and different types of horrors but this was different, this got in on me,very disturbing.

As for the Exorcist, well its quite simply the greatest movie ever made in any genre for me, and even though I have watched it over 20 times it still scares the living **** outta me every time!

C'mon man you cannot be serious. You make that statement and then say The Conjuring is the best horror film since The Exorcist. The Conjuring is a cut and paste job of every good horror film ever made. I don't believe you're a big horror fan if you don't watch foreign horror films, it's like someone saying you love animation but don't watch any Studio Ghibli films. It's your personal opinion though so I will respect that.

e_e

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

it's like someone saying you love animation but don't watch any Studio Ghibli films.

It's sad that this is often the case tbh.

e_e

I can't knock The Conjuring though. It's a rare mainstream horror that uses cinematography, sound design and just overall atmosphere to a great advantage, other than bad acting, obnoxious teens and LOUD NOISES.

I was spooked by it and I'm no slouch when it comes to scary movies.

Mousewar

Watched The Conjuring last night based on all this chatter. Quite disappointing really. Very formulaic and other than a slight creepiness, nothing particularly scary.

youtube!

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

C'mon man you cannot be serious. You make that statement and then say The Conjuring is the best horror film since The Exorcist. The Conjuring is a cut and paste job of every good horror film ever made. I don't believe you're a big horror fan if you don't watch foreign horror films. It's your personal opinion though so I will respect that.

It most certainly is not a cut and paste job, the whole atmosphere of the movie from start to finish is one of growing dread, perhaps it was the directing of James Wan that makes the difference but the over all quality of the acting,the screenplay and the cinematography make this movie a triumph. They say it is largely based on fact, I don't know if that's the case but if so then it's a story well told.

As for me not watching any foreign horror movies well I hate subtitles but I did enjoy Ringu,though not as much as the american version (which it was based on,I am aware of that!) Still you cannot tell me that because I don't watch them that I am not a fan of horror, that's like me saying if you haven't driven a Mercedes then you can't be a fan of motoring, certainly my appreciation may not be complete, but that doesn't mean that I don't know what I like !

MilanPan!c

youtube! wrote: »

It most certainly is not a cut and paste job, the whole atmosphere of the movie from start to finish is one of growing dread, perhaps it was the directing of James Wan that makes the difference but the over all quality of the acting,the screenplay and the cinematography make this movie a triumph. They say it is largely based on fact, I don't know if that's the case but if so then it's a story well told.

As for me not watching any foreign horror movies well I hate subtitles but I did enjoy Ringu,though not as much as the american version (which it was based on,I am aware of that!) Still you cannot tell me that because I don't watch them that I am not a fan of horror, that's like me saying if you haven't driven a Mercedes then you can't be a fan of motoring, certainly my appreciation may not be complete, but that doesn't mean that I don't know what I like !

You REALLY need to get over that subtitle thing so you can watch the great Italian horror... seriously, that stuff crushes most American horror.

johnny_ultimate

I'm afraid I can't conjure (Ho Ho!) any sympathy for hating subtitles. It's just crazy unless you have some sort of disability that prevents you from reading them. You cut out a vast majority of the greatest films ever made in one foul swoop for no sensible region.

The Conjuring was a surprisingly well crafted horror film - familiar but energetic. But even as someone who thoroughly enjoyed it, it belongs nowhere near best of the decade accolades.

youtube!

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I'm afraid I can't conjure (Ho Ho!) any sympathy for hating subtitles. It's just crazy unless you have some sort of disability that prevents you from reading them. You cut out a vast majority of the greatest films ever made in one foul swoop for no sensible region.

The Conjuring was a surprisingly well crafted horror film - familiar but energetic. But even as someone who thoroughly enjoyed it, it belongs nowhere near best of the decade accolades.

In my opinion it does! Why can't people except we all have our own opinion!

e_e

youtube! wrote: »

I hate subtitles

I've yet to hear any reasonable justification for this but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: Why hate subtitles? They allow cinema to be international and once you embrace them a whole new world of film opens up to you.

Honestly I can't help but think that when people complain about subtitles they're really saying that they fear watching something that doesn't fit into the mold of movies they've watched to date.

youtube!

MilanPan!c wrote: »

You REALLY need to get over that subtitle thing so you can watch the great Italian horror... seriously, that stuff crushes most American horror.

I did enjoy Suspiria by Dario Argento, in fact I loved it, it is old though, I suppose when I actually think about it that maybe I am more of a classic horror fan than a modern horror fan, but yes you are correct, I will have to get over the sub title thing,it is a drawback.

MilanPan!c

e_e wrote: »

I've yet to hear any reasonable justification for this but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: Why hate subtitles? They allow cinema to be international and once you embrace them a whole new world of film opens up to you.

Honestly I can't help but think that when people complain about subtitles they're really saying that they fear watching something that doesn't fit into the mold of movies they've watched to date.

welll... subtitles ARE a thing... I mean by that, that some people - even people that love foreign films - find them to be a bit of a strain....


I don't understand people that refuse to engage with them either, but they are more work for some people... that's for sure.

Mousewar

e_e wrote: »

I've yet to hear any reasonable justification for this but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: Why hate subtitles? They allow cinema to be international and once you embrace them a whole new world of film opens up to you.

Honestly I can't help but think that when people complain about subtitles they're really saying that they fear watching something that doesn't fit into the mold of movies they've watched to date.

I imagine they just don't want to read during a movie. I watch and love a lot of subtitle films but it's hardly difficult to understand why someone else might be put off by them. It's a leap to suggest that it actually indicates a dislike for unconventional films.

MilanPan!c

youtube! wrote: »

I did enjoy Suspiria by Dario Argento, in fact I loved it, it is old though, I suppose when I actually think about it that maybe I am more of a classic horror fan than a modern horror fan, but yes you are correct, I will have to get over the sub title thing,it is a drawback.

I preferred Drag Me to Hell over the Conjuring for the same reason... very old school and - as a plus to me - a loving homage to Italian horror.

e_e

Mousewar wrote: »

I imagine they just don't want to read during a movie. I watch and love a lot of subtitle films but it's hardly difficult to understand why someone else might be put off by them. It's a leap to suggest that it actually indicates a dislike for unconventional films.

This is based on the fallacy that every film is packed with dialog though. A line of subtitles takes less than a second to read anyway, within 5 minutes of every movie I just forget they're there.

MilanPan!c

e_e wrote: »

This is based on the fallacy that every film is packed with dialog though. A line of subtitles takes less than a second to read anyway, within 5 minutes of every movie I just forget they're there.

Sure, but that's you...

My wife, who's a fluent French speaker and has seen dozens and dozens of French movies, will actively reject a French movie at the end of a long day, because she wears glasses and doesn't want to have to - even occasionally - read text on the screen.

On the weekend though, or on a holiday, she'll pester me to watch French movies...

On the other hand I never ever don't want to watch a flcik because of the subs...

Different people have different reactions to them.

e_e

Sure I can understand that, I usually watch movies in the cinema anyway which isn't difficult to look at anyway.

I actually think much of the resistance to subtitles came from the VHS days where TV screens were smaller and the resolutions were lower making it hard to read. Especially when they were white on a white blackground. That's not as much of a problem now.

youtube!

MilanPan!c wrote: »

I preferred Drag Me to Hell over the Conjuring for the same reason... very old school and - as a plus to me - a loving homage to Italian horror.

Yep I loved drag me to hell also,very original. Sorry I will shut up now as I have somehow managed to derail the thread.

LuckyLloyd

Re subtitles: when I was watching Blue is the Warmest Colour this week there were a couple of scenes where there is conversation over the shoulder of the in focus characters which you might want to keep an ear to if the film was in English. In one scene in particular, the lead character is talking to someone at a party while distracted and keeping an eye on the conversation behind her. To not be able to listen to it did detract somewhat from my ability to drink the scene in.

That said, it's a me problem. I should be able to speak French (I can't speak English right tbh)! It would never put me off going to see a film, but I can understand why it limits an audience. It is harder to get lost in a movie with subtitles, you lose nuances of dialogue. And for older people that much reading might be difficult or unenjoyable.

It definitely makes a difference, to ignore that would be silly.

johnny_ultimate

But subtitles are by far the most elegant solution we have. Short of the invention or discovery of some sort of Babel fish device / creature, it will remain that way too

For every moment of immersion breaking subtitle quirks, dubbing would provide ten. Similarly, I think it's just as easy to get immersed in a film with subtitles, it just becomes part of the rhythm near immediately in my experience - only if the subtitles are poor for some reason would I say otherwise.

I'm not saying subtitles are perfect (I personally believe they're not particularly difficult or distracting either), but it seems truly bizarre to me to hate them so much you'd actively avoid foreign films - the films that represent a huge proportion of the world's film output. The negatives of subtitles are outweighed a hundredfold by the benefits: they're pretty much the only way we have access to a majority of, to bring this point full circle, so many of the best films of the decade.

brevity

When I used to work in XtraVision, we had to put a sticker on subtitled movies as people were complaining about arriving home with a movie that was subtitled. "If I wanted to read, I'd by a book" they'd say...

It always seemed odd to me as they obviously liked the cover, they read the blurb at the back and it interested them but to just give up because you have to read subtitles seemed a shame.

e_e

Yeah let me be clear, I wasn't saying that people can't possibly have a few issues with subtitles. I was saying that it seems unfair and limiting to flat out refuse to watch foreign films for that reason, and that some people just use the "I don't like subtitles." as an excuse to not try something different.

poundapunnet

I get why, all other things being equal, someone would prefer to watch a film with no subtitles over one with them. Yeah, they're the least-worst solution but they do still have an impact.

I also have a very bad habit of getting distracted by trying to figure out what certain common words are if it's a language I don't speak at all (that's sustained me through many's the crappy Asian horror actually :P). And my French is nowhere near good enough to follow a film without the subs, but just about good enough to pick up on oddities of translation.

But some people's reading speeds aren't great, and I think it actually probably does take a while to get used to subbed films, to be able to properly look at what's going on on screen and read the lines at the same time without any dip in concentration or comprehension on any point. It doesn't necessarily mean that people are philistines and nincompoops for preferring films in English.

Decuc500

MilanPan!c wrote: »

You REALLY need to get over that subtitle thing so you can watch the great Italian horror... seriously, that stuff crushes most American horror.

Weren't most of the Italian horror movies from the 70's and 80's in English? I'm thinking Argento and Fulci. I think the best in American horror from that period is as good if not better than the Italian films anyway.

Mickeroo

I only find subtitles distracting if the film is actually in English. A friend I used to live with used to watch every film the subtitles switched on (they weren't hard of hearing btw) just in case they would miss a line of dialogue. I had to put the foot down eventually and made them stop, it was terrible, my eye would constantly be drawn to them. It was worse particularly if it was a comedy as the line would often come up slightly before the actors would speak so it would completely ruin the impact of a gag.

If you're trying to convince someone to watch a subtitled film ,ease them into it with something like The Raid where the dialogue is minimal and pretty much superfluous to the film anyway.

MilanPan!c

Decuc500 wrote: »

Weren't most of the Italian horror movies from the 70's and 80's in English? I'm thinking Argento and Fulci. I think the best in American horror from that period is as good if not better than the Italian films anyway.

Actually, while the English version of these films are probably the most common, on a lot of these films the actors actually spoke different languages and then the parts were all over-dubbed latter... which was also the case for HK movies, and actually lots of "foreign films".

Sync Sound wasn't available until the 90s in HK and in fact this led to some famous overdub artists.

Of course some Chinese people can speak Cantonse and Mandarian and in the 90s it wasn't that weird to see the actors dubbing their own voices for HK and the mainland.

And that's a bunch of stuff you probably never needed to know

As for quality... well, it depends on taste to a degree.. which the US films were often a lot better made, the actual experience of the film (if your into that) was often more interesting and strange in foreign horror... which added something for some people, like me.

My favourite US horror from the 70s and 80s would include:

Evil Dead, Maniac, Halloween and Phantasm.

Are those better than say: Suspiria, City of the Living Dead, Inferno, The Beyond and Tenebre?

But it gets more complex if you start to add things like David Cronenberg and John Carpenter and even Kubrick... if you add those guys, the US wins... otherwise... I'm not so sure.

MilanPan!c

One more thing, a recommendation if you like horror: Bio-Zombie.



Def a horror COMEDY, but really excellent and REALLY funny.

syklops

Mickeroo wrote: »

I only find subtitles distracting if the film is actually in English. A friend I used to live with used to watch every film the subtitles switched on (they weren't hard of hearing btw) just in case they would miss a line of dialogue. I had to put the foot down eventually and made them stop, it was terrible, my eye would constantly be drawn to them. It was worse particularly if it was a comedy as the line would often come up slightly before the actors would speak so it would completely ruin the impact of a gag.

If you're trying to convince someone to watch a subtitled film ,ease them into it with something like The Raid where the dialogue is minimal and pretty much superfluous to the film anyway.

I dont miss going to English movies in the Czech Republic. Fecking subtitles distracting you.

Decuc500

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Actually, while the English version of these films are probably the most common, on a lot of these films the actors actually spoke different languages and then the parts were all over-dubbed latter...

I watched The Bird With The Crystal Plumage recently in Italian with English subtitles as I just presumed it would have been filmed with the actors speaking Italian. It was only afterwards that I discovered that the actors spoke their native language and everything was dubbed afterwards. Bizarre way of doing things...

But yeah, those were golden years for Italian horror. I felt some of the films were cheesy and the acting isn't great but the films you mentioned are certainly classics. I re-watched Suspiria and Inferno recently on blu-ray and they certainly look amazing.

MilanPan!c

Decuc500 wrote: »

I watched The Bird With The Crystal Plumage recently in Italian with English subtitles as I just presumed it would have been filmed with the actors speaking Italian. It was only afterwards that I discovered that the actors spoke their native language and everything was dubbed afterwards. Bizarre way of doing things...

But yeah, those were golden years for Italian horror. I felt some of the films were cheesy and the acting isn't great but the films you mentioned are certainly classics. I re-watched Suspiria and Inferno recently on blu-ray and they certainly look amazing.

It was bizarre! But sync sound was sooooo expensive to do right* and so was rejected across asia!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sync_sound

I think that Argento in particular was in a weird position, especially in the mid-80s. His movies were gaining popularity, he was working with known American actors, but ... his entire system for film making was based in Italy.. so... it became what it became.

I also think that like in Asian movies, it would have been pretty common for the Italian actors to dub their English lines as part of the process, if they could... Which of course only adds to the confusion...

*to be clear, the systems weren't THAT expensive as I understand, but controlling environments was almost impossible the way that the Italians and Asians shot (e.g. lots of verite style stuff in public places) and so it wasn't practical to do it on the budgets available...

Evelyn Cusack

syklops wrote: »

I dont miss going to English movies in the Czech Republic. Fecking subtitles distracting you.

You can speak Czech!?

daithi_dearg

To jump in on the pro-subtitles for just one film. Is to Rome with Love meant to have subtitles or is it missing because I got it on torrent?

MilanPan!c

daithi_dearg wrote: »

To jump in on the pro-subtitles for just one film. Is to Rome with Love meant to have subtitles or is it missing because I got it on torrent?

"...good portions of the film are shot in Italian and subtitled..."

www.cinemablend.com/m/dvds/To-Rome-With-Love-Blu-ray-6272.html

Mickeroo

daithi_dearg wrote: »

To jump in on the pro-subtitles for just one film. Is to Rome with Love meant to have subtitles or is it missing because I got it on torrent?

Another reason not to torrent, films with parts in another language often don't have subtitles included.

Frank Lee Midere

The White Ribbon.

Dermighty

Barneys Version

MilanPan!c

Mickeroo wrote: »

Another reason not to torrent, films with parts in another language often don't have subtitles included.

Ehhhh...it's not a great reason. A much better reason is to support film makers and actors.

daithi_dearg

Shame on me. I owe those Warner executives an apology.

Mickeroo

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Ehhhh...it's not a great reason. A much better reason is to support film makers and actors.

Hence why I said "another reason" and not "a great reason".

MilanPan!c

Mickeroo wrote: »

Hence why I said "another reason" and not "a great reason".

Ah are we listing bad reasons then?

Mickeroo

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Ah are we listing bad reasons then?

I'm not listing anything was just a remark.

MilanPan!c

Mickeroo wrote: »

I'm not listing anything was just a remark.

So was mine.

hefferboi

Take Shelter is my favourite movie over the last 10 years. Michael Shannon with an oscar worthy performance imo. Definitely more people need to watch this.

Mickeroo

MilanPan!c wrote: »

So was mine.

Jolly good.

damke_1

zodiac is a masterpiece no doubt i loved watching the movie. however it is pretty hard to say which is the best i have seen since i liked so many movies in so many different ways, i love scifi and all the special effects of the transformers or avatar. bad boys one and two is a must see if you ask me, and i even watch them a few times during the year, but a movie that i will always remember is BASIC (staring Travolta and Samuel L Jackson) it's the best thriller i have seen

ThirdMan

bellinter wrote: »

I think Die Hard 5 might have a thing or two to say about that

I had a row with my girlfriend the day this was released. I stormed out of the flat. I had nowhere to go but I couldn't go home. I walked into the cinema and picked the next film that was starting. Die Hard 5. I switched my phone back on two hours later. My girlfriend was in hysterics. She'd thought I'd flipped out and jumped into the river.

Why didn't I think of that?

loveBBhate

ThirdMan wrote: »

I had a row with my girlfriend the day this was released. I stormed out of the flat. I had nowhere to go but I couldn't go home. I walked into the cinema and picked the next film that was starting. Die Hard 5. I switched my phone back on two hours later. My girlfriend was in hysterics. She'd thought I'd flipped out and jumped into the river.

Why didn't I think of that?

Well that escalated qui... nah actually, not worthy enough to be mentioned amongst some of these masterpieces.

Tipsy McSwagger

hefferboi wrote: »

Take Shelter is my favourite movie over the last 10 years. Michael Shannon with an oscar worthy performance imo. Definitely more people need to watch this.

I watched it the other day, it was ok. Michael Shannon was just doing his usual shtick and brought nothing new to the unlikeable character he played. The ending was a cop out too.

loveBBhate

Take Shelter is relevant to the weather we're having here in the West lately.

catallus

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The White Ribbon.

I've watched this about 5 times and I still can't make head nor tail of it. It is entrancing, but why? Is it the sound??? The creepy silences? I dunno. It is really good but tis no Under Siege.

hefferboi

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I watched it the other day, it was ok. Michael Shannon was just doing his usual shtick and brought nothing new to the unlikeable character he played. The ending was a cop out too.

Have to disagree. I never liked Shannon until I watched this. Performance of his career I thought. I didn't see the ending coming, I thought it was very good.