ESB vote to strike over gold plated pensions as winter arrives

Gumbo

Ace2007 wrote: »

what are you on about - the company's don't keep the pension levy.
if you are paying into a DC scheme, your monthly contributions are invested in a fund, the employer doesn't keep this.

You should read up on the pension levy

There is no PS pension fund, it's paid out of current contributions and current expenditure.

tayto lover

How dare they stand up for themselves.

P_1

tayto lover wrote: »

How dare they stand up for themselves.

It's a very fine line to walk though when they provide an essential service that has no back up

radonicus

tayto lover wrote: »

How dare they stand up for themselves.

Yeah, why don't they quit causing trouble and lie down like the rest of us?

tayto lover

P_1 wrote: »

It's a very fine line to walk though when they provide an essential service that has no back up

87% of them seem to think its worth it. Odd that.

Ace2007

kceire wrote: »

You should read up on the pension levy

There is no PS pension fund, it's paid out of current contributions and current expenditure.

why don't you post a link that shows they keep 65%.

Ace2007

tayto lover wrote: »

87% of them seem to think its worth it. Odd that.

should we do a vote of taxpayers to see if they support paying for their pensions, while private sector pension schemes are allow go bust and no back up?

end of the road

P_1 wrote: »

So technically, were a strike to happen and the power be cut there's nothing stopping a group of civic minded technical folk from just walking in and manning the stations, keeping the power on and rendering the strike redundant

possibly, all though with health and safety legislation i can't imagine it would be allowed, i wouldn't be worrying about it anyway as the likelyhood of them downing tools whether they voted it or not for it is very small TBH, will probably be work to rule.

end of the road

hmmm wrote: »

People in monopolies should never be allowed strike. Same with the bus and rail workers.

why not? what else should they do if nothing else works? should you be allowed to strike or should you have to put up with your employer doing what it likes and you just have to take it?

P_1

tayto lover wrote: »

87% of them seem to think its worth it. Odd that.

True but it's not exactly the most effective way of getting what they want once you take the likely public reaction to it. Hopefully it's like a nuclear bomb option, useful to have as a deterrent but unthinkable to actually use

end of the road

Gmol wrote: »

If the union strike can the general public sue them for hardship

no, if you plan right their will be no hardship, not being able to charge your phone isn't hardship

tayto lover

Ace2007 wrote: »

should we do a vote of taxpayers to see if they support paying for their pensions, while private sector pension schemes are allow go bust and no back up?

Taxpayers can think and do what they like. They are not the people in question i.e. the ESB staff.
The taxpayers should have had a vote on the banking bailout if they wanted an issue to vote on. We are being led by the ears in this country. Fair play to the unions.

end of the road

Ace2007 wrote: »

should we do a vote of taxpayers to see if they support paying for their pensions, while private sector pension schemes are allow go bust and no back up?

no, would cost to much and take up to much time, why do people always bring up the private sector, its irrelevant, its like the whataboutery which takes up the threads in relation to britain/northern ireland/the troubles

Frank Black

end of the road wrote: »

why not? what else should they do if nothing else works? should you be allowed to strike or should you have to put up with your employer doing what it likes and you just have to take it?

You could quit and get a better job elsewhere.

You know, one of those other jobs for life that pay obscenely high wages and has gold played pensions.

tayto lover

Frank Black wrote: »

You could quit and get a better job elsewhere.

You know, one of those other jobs for life that pay obscenely high wages and has gold played pensions.

He has a good job.
It's the tricking around with his pension he is angry about.

Black cat banger

Corkbah wrote: »

amazing how unions seem to encourage strikes coming up towards christmas …. every year its the same …. we fancy a strike (unless you want to give us more money)

Not amazing pal ....the brothers has been doin this for years.

I can remember a good few years ago there was a vital international soccer match coming up...suddenly the brothers in ESB got a bit agitated and threatned a strike which would have pulled the plug on TV coverage .!

Was contacted by Electric Ireland some time ago and asked to come back( I had gone to Airtricity)

Took pleasure in telling them that if they employ that knobhead Ogle and pay their CEO 700k + I would prefer not to contribute to that sh1te !

Corkbah

Ace2007 wrote: »

should we do a vote of taxpayers to see if they support paying for their pensions, while private sector pension schemes are allow go bust and no back up?

unless you happen to have your money with Newbridge credit union … our government considers it better to invest over 50Million to protect the potential loss of 1.1million of customers money !!!

really makes ya think who has their money in Newbridge that our government thinks its worth protecting !!

(sorry for going slightly off topic)

tayto lover

Black cat banger wrote: »

Not amazing pal ....the brothers has been doin this for years.

I can remember a good few years ago there was a vital international soccer match coming up...suddenly the brothers in ESB got a bit agitated and threatned a strike which would have pulled the plug on TV coverage .!

Was contacted by Electric Ireland some time ago and asked to come back( I had gone to Airtricity)

Took pleasure in telling them that if they employ that knobhead Ogle and pay their CEO 700k + I would prefer not to contribute to that sh1te !

You should refuse to pay your income tax, property tax etc as well.
Look at the knobheads that's going to pay -- fat ministers etc.

Ace2007

end of the road wrote: »

no, would cost to much and take up to much time, why do people always bring up the private sector, its irrelevant, its like the whataboutery which takes up the threads in relation to britain/northern ireland/the troubles

Please tell me how it is irrelevant, say a guy worked for a company for 40 years and was told on retirement he would get 2/3rds of his final salary as a pension, if the company goes bust before he retires, he will be in a position of probably getting nothing, as currently rules states pensioners get the money first.

Now look at the guy in ESB - same situation and you think they should be bailed out?

What about the 100's of other DB Schemes in deficit, do we just say tough sh!t to those people, they are in private and so you don't care?

Also to add - the pension levy has taken over a billion out of private pension funds since 2011 - what right has the government got to that?

Fiery mutant

Let them strike. It will affect them every bit as much as the rest of us.

When they are going home to a freezing home with no electricity to cook, or boil water to wash, or heat their family, we'll see how comfortable they start to feel. I think they forget that no power, means no nothing. Without electricity, the people at risk of dying are not only us, but them as well. Their old mothers, their sick friends in hospital.

So let them strike.

tayto lover

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Let them strike. It will affect them every bit as much as the rest of us.

When they are going home to a freezing home with no electricity to cook, or boil water to wash, or heat their family, we'll see how comfortable they start to feel. I think they forget that no power, means no nothing. Without electricity, the people at risk of dying are not only us, but them as well. Their old mothers, their sick friends in hospital.

So let them strike.

I have a good generator.
So have the boys in the Dail.

Black cat banger

tayto lover wrote: »

You should refuse to pay your income tax, property tax etc as well.
Look at the knobheads that's going to pay -- fat ministers etc.

No Buddy ..think Ministers are doing a good job clearing up the ****e they inherited from the previous shower of crooks.

It's easy to throw sh1te ...who are the fat Ministers you are referring to ?

And who are the etc .?

ixoy

It depends on how power would be disrupted but it's ridiculous to say people would just miss out on charging their phones:

Businesses couldn't operate to a very large degree. Back up generators can only last for a certain amount of time and many companies won't be able to operate without electricity. It would be severely disruptive to many many businesses - some barely getting by as it is. Other businesses might look at Ireland and decide it's not worth this sort of hassle.
Travel would be disrupted - you need power to operate the garage - including the pumps and payment systems.
People couldn't even access money since it's all done electronically. I assume banks have backups but what about ATMs - it's not feasible for everyone to go to their local branch, many of which have closed.

People wouldn't also be able to heat water, cook food, freeze perishables or, importantly,heat their own house. Many people do not have fire places to compensate.

It would be a very bad thing and potentially dangerous depending on what direction it took.

tayto lover

Black cat banger wrote: »

No Buddy ..think Ministers are doing a good job clearing up the ****e they inherited from the previous shower of crooks.

It's easy to throw sh1te ...who are the fat Ministers you are referring to ?

And who are the etc .?

The bondholder Noonan,who looks after his friends.
The man who got the 1 million interest only loan from Fingers - Hogan.
The health minister, Reilly, with his big period house and his tax breaks etc etc etc.
Lots of sh1te to be cleared up yet but don't start at home.

P_1

ixoy wrote: »

It depends on how power would be disrupted but it's ridiculous to say people would just miss out on charging their phones:

Businesses couldn't operate to a very large degree. Back up generators can only last for a certain amount of time and many companies won't be able to operate without electricity. It would be severely disruptive to many many businesses - some barely getting by as it is. Other businesses might look at Ireland and decide it's not worth this sort of hassle.
Travel would be disrupted - you need power to operate the garage - including the pumps and payment systems.
People couldn't even access money since it's all done electronically. I assume banks have backups but what about ATMs - it's not feasible for everyone to go to their local branch, many of which have closed.

People wouldn't also be able to heat water, cook food, freeze perishables or, importantly,heat their own house. Many people do not have fire places to compensate.

It would be a very bad thing and potentially dangerous depending on what direction it took.

A very good point, it isn't the same as the 70's where electricity wasn't so vital to both the general economy and domestic life.

hansfrei

Burn down the powerstations so this can never happen again.

Cienciano

P_1 wrote: »

True but it's not exactly the most effective way of getting what they want once you take the likely public reaction to it. Hopefully it's like a nuclear bomb option, useful to have as a deterrent but unthinkable to actually use

The public hate the esb anyway. Almost never a good word said about them. But you're right about the nuclear bomb option, it's more a deterrent. But then again, maybe that's what the management of esb think too, and maybe the think the unions are bluffing? Hard to tell.

Ace2007

tayto lover wrote: »

The bondholder Noonan,who looks after his friends.
The man who got the 1 million interest only loan from Fingers - Hogan.
The health minister, Reilly, with his big period house and his tax breaks etc etc etc.
Lots of sh1te to be cleared up yet but don't start at home.

Why do you insist on bringing this into every thread,
Ireland is bust, in 40/50 years time there is going to be a huge demand for pensions due to the fact that people are living longer etc, If we concentrate of rubbish like your above, when you retire there will be no money simple.

Yes I hate that all the above has happened, but deal with that at another time, this is about pensions.

Black cat banger

tayto lover wrote: »

The bondholder Noonan,who looks after his friends.
The man who got the 1 million interest only loan from Fingers - Hogan.
The health minister, Reilly, with his big period house and his tax breaks etc etc etc.
Lots of sh1te to be cleared up yet but don't start at home.

Hmmm don't think Fingers is a friend of Noonan ?

Reilly ..bit of a whiff of sulpher around there to be sure ..but nothin illegal.

You have very thin case there pal....Hogan...may be a bit tainted ..but cut to the fcukin chase pal...

Think the previous Gimps ..No Account Bertie...Limousine O'Donoghue...Three Houses Flynn...banker beverly.....Lalor the zone King....Ivor the Fiddler...Biffo the Soak...The Galway tent.....Richardson...

Hmmm ?

flutered

Black cat banger wrote: »

No Buddy ..think Ministers are doing a good job clearing up the ****e they inherited from the previous shower of crooks.

It's easy to throw sh1te ...who are the fat Ministers you are referring to ?

And who are the etc .?

just look at them on the tv, then say to yourself has not his kneck and arse got rather big since the election, my eyes claim that the vast majority of them are supposed to be repesenting the workers, oh while i am posting may i say watching the six one news, i reconed that that bloke ongles scarf cost more that all the clothes i wear daily.

dekbhoy

Not sure about employees nowadays but there was a saying if you got kept on after your apprenticeship with ESB it was the equivalent of winning the lotto. Permanent job where you cannot be sacked and if you stay you are guaranteed to earn nearly 100k before retiring on half that salary. That's retiring on nearly 50k. IMO the government have an obligation to keep the fund topped up, I in no way begrudge the workers the terms and conditions of their employment they signed up to And they have every right to withdraw their labour as an ultimate last resort. No worker wants to strike. At the end of the day the money that should be invested in the fund is been used indirectly to pay off dirty fat bankers and developers that destroyed the lives of many a family in this country.they shouldn't be allowed do the same to the working class families that have kept the lights on in this country in horrendous weather conditions theses men and women work.

Busted Flat.

These are the selfish people that got an increase in their overpaid salaries when everyone else got a cut in theirs, and on top of that after the ordinary people had their income cut, to pay for the increase in these greedy ???????? salaries the price of our bills went up. These people are paras???s.

Black cat banger

Look Peeps ..if you have your foot on somebody's neck you is going to press...arn't you ?

These ESB scratters think they has their foot on the ordinary tax payers neck...and they is now pressing.

Nothin unique about that...it's just the way Bullies operate....

end of the road

Busted Flat. wrote: »

These are the people that got an increase in their salaries which was agreed to by the company when everyone else got a cut in theirs, and on top of that after the ordinary people had their income cut, to pay for the increase in the politicians salaries the price of our bills went up. These people are entitled to have the amount of money that was agreed to payed into their pension fund

fixed

Cienciano

Busted Flat. wrote: »

These are the selfish people that got an increase in their overpaid salaries when everyone else got a cut in theirs, and on top of that after the ordinary people had their income cut, to pay for the increase in these greedy ???????? salaries the price of our bills went up. These people are paras???s.

Never mind the fact that none of that is true, this isn't about salarys, it's about pension fund gone

Busted Flat.

Cienciano wrote: »

Never mind the fact that none of that is true, this isn't about salarys, it's about pension fund gone

Could you expand on that.

secman

Every pension fund in the world took a hammering in recent years . They lost a fortune on bank shares , and in Ireland especially. They also lost a fortune in property . So the e s b employees think that their pension fund should be immune from the financial meltdown ! Funny f c k sr's that shower !

Cienciano

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Could you expand on that.

You're so angry about the salary increases, you actually said the same thing twice. But this has zero to do with salary/price hikes/increases. It's about a pension fund for the workers that the ESB won't pay into when they're apparently supposed to.

Busted Flat.

secman wrote: »

Every pension fund in the world took a hammering in recent years . They lost a fortune on bank shares , and in Ireland especially. They also lost a fortune in property . So the e s b employees think that their pension fund should be immune from the financial meltdown ! Funny f c k sr's that shower !

That is not fair, they maybe over paid, but they have to work in the rain and when the wind is blowing.

Femme_Fatale

Busted Flat. wrote: »

That is not fair, they maybe over paid, but they have to work in the rain and when the wind is blowing.

I know... maintenance of the electricity network during stormy weather - shur that's nothin'.

The bitterness is hilarious.

Busted Flat.

Cienciano wrote: »

You're so angry about the salary increases, you actually said the same thing twice. But this has zero to do with salary/price hikes/increases. It's about a pension fund for the workers that the ESB won't pay into when they're apparently supposed to.

Do not agree they got an increase in income when everyone else's income was being cut..

P_1

Cienciano wrote: »

You're so angry about the salary increases, you actually said the same thing twice. But this has zero to do with salary/price hikes/increases. It's about a pension fund for the workers that the ESB won't pay into when they're apparently supposed to.

There has to be a more effective way of directing the anger at that than hurting the general public who have had nothing to do with that though.

Busted Flat.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I know... maintenance of the electricity network during stormy weather - shur that's nothin'.

The bitterness is hilarious.

It is not bitterness, it is the control they have over peoples lives, If I can not get my way you will not have your breakfast, or plug in your heater in the winter. That is not bitterness, It is life, and sometimes it can cause death.

hansfrei

Cienciano wrote: »

You're so angry about the salary increases, you actually said the same thing twice. But this has zero to do with salary/price hikes/increases. It's about a pension fund for the workers that the ESB won't pay into when they're apparently supposed to.

This problem belongs in a courtroom. Attacking your customers because of some third party pension issue is COMPLETE nonsense.

Jesus I'd expect less tantrums from a two year old.

Femme_Fatale

Busted Flat. wrote: »

It is not bitterness, it is the control they have over peoples lives, If I can not get my way you will not have your breakfast, or plug in your heater in the winter. That is not bitterness, It is life, and sometimes it can cause death.

Ok, but don't be silly by pretending the work on the electricity network is no big deal. You'd be very happy to have them around if there was a storm and your power cut - although some dopes blame a power cut caused by a storm on the ESB!
I agree some of them seem overpaid and over-privileged - well it seemed to be the case in the past; I'm not so sure things are as rosy nowadays though.

Busted Flat.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Ok, but don't be silly by pretending the work on the electricity network is no big deal. You'd be very happy to have them around if there was a storm and your power cut - although some dopes blame a power cut caused by a storm on the ESB!
I agree some of them seem overpaid and over-privileged - well it seemed to be the case in the past; I'm not so sure things are as rosy nowadays though.

Jaysus, they are trained in the job, and overpaid to do it, if my power went am I expected to rush out when my power is restored and get down on my knees and say ten decades of the rosary in front of the lorry, and ring liveline to keep thanking people do the jobs they are paid to do. Get a grip.

Femme_Fatale

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Jaysus, they are trained in the job, and overpaid to do it

And it's a tough job with huge responsibility. Why are you pretending it's not? Why is it "overpaid"?

if my power went am I expected to rush out when my power is restored and get down on my knees and say ten decades of the rosary in front of the lorry, and ring liveline to keep thanking people do the jobs they are paid to do.

No...?

Busted Flat.

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

And it's a tough job with huge responsibility. Why are you pretending it's not? Why is it "overpaid"?

No...?

Do not wish to get into an argument about this, it is my opinion, I am not that close to the overpaid heroes of that organization.

P_1

I'm fairly sure that the people at the ESB can work out who is responsible for the pension mess, identify where they live and work to rule by restricting the supply of electricity to their houses rather than going on an all out strike. I'd imagine it would be a hell of a lot more effective too

kylith

Yes, it is a job with huge responsibility, but that doesn't give them the right to turn the power off. How many elderly people die of cold over the average winter? How many more will die this winter if the electricity is turned off?

Their strike isn't a minor inconvenience, it could be genuinely dangerous. Without electricity people can't cook food, they can't heat their homes, they can't heat water to wash, and they can't call for help if they need it.