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Utlity subscriptions in an ESB strike

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  • 20-11-2013 11:25pm
    #1
    mike2084
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭


    Just throwing this out there for the fun of it....

    If the ESB strike goes ahead (inevitable by http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/anger-at-christmas-blackout-threat-by-esb-union-leaders-29768794.html#comments), would you be able to withhold payment for some services that you need to power to use.

    For example upc or Sky TV, say there are two weeks of an outage due to a strike which is out of your control, can you tell them you are withholding two weeks for your sub because I couldn't use the service it for two weeks. I know they will say it's out of their control and you have probably signed some waiver when you joined up, but would it be worth a shot?


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    #2
    Paulw
    Registered Users Posts: 13,381 ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Not a chance. It's out of their control, so they have not breached their contract to you.


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    #3
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Paulw wrote: »
    Not a chance. It's out of their control, so they have not breached their contract to you.

    What if I still have power, but they're not transmitting?


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    #4
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    Thoie wrote: »
    What if I still have power, but they're not transmitting?

    If Sky aren't transmitting thats the least of your problems. They've 4 independent satellites and are part of the UK emergency broadcast system (not the right jargon but...). If none of them are transmitting the world is likely to be ending.

    Loss of service, as a matter of service, will usually be credited pro rata, see your various contracts.


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    #5
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Bepolite wrote: »
    If Sky aren't transmitting thats the least of your problems. They've 4 independent satellites and are part of the UK emergency broadcast system (not the right jargon but...). If none of them are transmitting the world is likely to be ending.

    Loss of service, as a matter of service, will usually be credited pro rata, see your various contracts.

    That reminds me of when I was getting my house insurance. After a variety of questions (some of which discussed the location of the house), the rep asked the standard question of whether there was any risk of flooding. I pointed out that if my place was flooded, the rest of Ireland was in a lot of trouble, and insurance would be the least of our worries. He paused, then asked could he have a place in my ark :)


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    #6
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    mike2084 wrote: »
    Just throwing this out there for the fun of it....

    If the ESB strike goes ahead (inevitable by http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/anger-at-christmas-blackout-threat-by-esb-union-leaders-29768794.html#comments), would you be able to withhold payment for some services that you need to power to use.

    For example upc or Sky TV, say there are two weeks of an outage due to a strike which is out of your control, can you tell them you are withholding two weeks for your sub because I couldn't use the service it for two weeks. I know they will say it's out of their control and you have probably signed some waiver when you joined up, but would it be worth a shot?

    You are paying Sky, as your example, to provide the service. It's not their fault if you cannot receive. Very flippant analogy but... Would you request a credit from Sky every time you turned your TV off?


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    #7
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    mike2084 wrote: »
    Just throwing this out there for the fun of it....

    If the ESB strike goes ahead (inevitable by http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/anger-at-christmas-blackout-threat-by-esb-union-leaders-29768794.html#comments), would you be able to withhold payment for some services that you need to power to use.

    For example upc or Sky TV, say there are two weeks of an outage due to a strike which is out of your control, can you tell them you are withholding two weeks for your sub because I couldn't use the service it for two weeks. I know they will say it's out of their control and you have probably signed some waiver when you joined up, but would it be worth a shot?

    and if your tv broke or your computer broke would you also expect for Sky or Eircom not to charge you?

    What if the battery's in your sky remote went and you couldn't get to the shop to get more until the next day, would you expect a discount from sky?
    :rolleyes:


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    #8
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Absolutely ridiculous question. If the petrol companies were on strike would you pay your car payments?


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    #9
    mike2084
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭mike2084


    Cason Easy Spectator wrote: »
    Absolutely ridiculous question. If the petrol companies were on strike would you pay your car payments?

    Point taken, I will admit I was throwing this out mainly in frustration than with any real amount of logical thought :)


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    #10
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    mike2084 wrote: »
    Just throwing this out there for the fun of it....

    If the ESB strike goes ahead (inevitable by http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/anger-at-christmas-blackout-threat-by-esb-union-leaders-29768794.html#comments), would you be able to withhold payment for some services that you need to power to use.

    No, because if you are an Electric Ireland customer you've already agreed that you won't do this as the company is not liable.

    "We will not have to carry out any obligation under this agreement if we are prevented from doing so by any cause beyond our reasonable control. This includes, but is not limited to, failure or shortage of power supplies, civil unrest, labour shortage or labour dispute, instructions or requests from the Government, an emergency services organisation, or any other competent authority, or legal obligations."

    If power generation stopped due to a strike it would more than likely affect all energy suppliers. TV suppliers are unlikely to go on strike at the same time so I'd imagine they'd be more amenable to waiving subs for temporary outages to stop you switching. By a temporary outage, I mean a strike action for a period of time.


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    #11
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    Very interesting.


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    #12
    Soundman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭Soundman


    How do we know that at the same time we have no power due to ESB being on strike, that it isn't affecting their supply of services (UPC/Eircom/SKY/etc) to us also? That would mean that since they can't supply us, would we be able to withhold payment for non supply of service?


    Just thought I'd throw that out there. :D:P


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    #13
    Bepolite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite




    Appropriate for this thread for all sorts of reasons but the main one is to explain for the 2nd time where Sky's broadcast system is!


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    #14
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Bepolite wrote: »
    <video>

    Appropriate for this thread for all sorts of reasons but the main one is to explain for the 2nd time where Sky's broadcast system is!

    But what if the ESB disconnect the cables that run to the satellites?


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    #15
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Bepolite wrote: »
    <video>

    Appropriate for this thread for all sorts of reasons but the main one is to explain for the 2nd time where Sky's broadcast system is!

    Aww - that's not the right one. My day is ruined now, ruined. Almost as ruined as if the long space cables were unplugged.:(


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    #16
    jhegarty
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    Thoie wrote: »
    But what if the ESB disconnect the cables that run to the satellites?

    Don't be silly. Those cables run up from the uk.


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    #17
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Soundman wrote: »
    How do we know that at the same time we have no power due to ESB being on strike, that it isn't affecting their supply of services (UPC/Eircom/SKY/etc) to us also? That would mean that since they can't supply us, would we be able to withhold payment for non supply of service?


    Just thought I'd throw that out there. :D:P

    For starters anyone that lived through ESB strikes in the 1980's will confirm that the phone lines will work just fine,


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    #18
    susiewoosie
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭susiewoosie


    How long is the planned strike going to last?

    I have been researching this afternoon - but can only see its planned from 8am on Monday 16th --- is there a timeframe or is the power going to be off until demands are met?

    I'm trying to make arrangements now rather than later...


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    #19
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    susiewoosie wrote: »
    How long is the planned strike going to last?

    I have been researching this afternoon - but can only see its planned from 8am on Monday 16th --- is there a timeframe or is the power going to be off until demands are met?

    I'm trying to make arrangements now rather than later...

    Nobody knows how long any industrial action will last in any company. It is not yet certain there will even be action within ESB. If there is, it is also unknown what form that action will take.


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    #20
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 69,081 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Cabaal wrote: »
    For starters anyone that lived through ESB strikes in the 1980's will confirm that the phone lines will work just fine,

    Wouldn't be so confident now. The smaller micro-exchanges in use in some areas don't have much battery backup compared to a proper exchange, neither do the eFibre cabinets so its likely you'll lose phone service in a lengthy power cut on those.


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    #21
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    would the esb not be obliged to cover costs since they are the ones deliberately depriving you of paid for services?

    like if an elderly relative died due to the lack of heating, are the ESB liable?


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    #22
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    would the esb not be obliged to cover costs since they are the ones deliberately depriving you of paid for services?

    like if an elderly relative died due to the lack of heating, are the ESB liable?

    There are other forms of heating.


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    #23
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    RangeR wrote: »
    There are other forms of heating.

    fair enough i genuinely didn't know if it meant they would be liable, thanks :)


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    #24
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    As far as I can remember, they don't guarantee 100% uptime. In fact, a strike is one of their reasons for not doing so. It's all in the connection contract.

    Actually, it was already mentioned in the previous page.


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    #25
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,786 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    hoodwinked wrote: »
    would the esb not be obliged to cover costs since they are the ones deliberately depriving you of paid for services?

    like if an elderly relative died due to the lack of heating, are the ESB liable?

    it would be the striking workers who would be deliberately depriving you of paid for services, not the ESB. But you bring up an interesting concept, should striking workers be liable for consequential loss arising from their (in)action?


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    #26
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    it would be the striking workers who would be deliberately depriving you of paid for services, not the ESB. But you bring up an interesting concept, should striking workers be liable for consequential loss arising from their (in)action?

    Won't happen,
    In fairness where would the sillyness end?

    ESB Network workers strike, business customers of the three main suppliers would expect
    - business losses to be covered
    - travel costs to be covered if they had tyo travel to an alt location
    - costs for buying and running a generator

    Residential users (such as the op) would expect
    - satellite, cable and broadband subscription costs to be refunded
    - subscriptions for services that couldn't use to be covered, Netflix, Spotify, World Of Warcraft etc etc etc
    - costs for buying and running a generator

    It would turn into silly season and thats why it won't happen


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