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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    BTH wrote: »
    I have a grid roller thats gathering dust. That rolling and such nonsense is not something I bother with.

    slammed stem, no saddles, high cadence, no rolling.

    you're like the anti-triathlete really aren't you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    BTH wrote: »
    I have a grid roller thats gathering dust. That rolling and such nonsense is not something I bother with.

    Still cranky..........


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    mossym wrote: »
    slammed stem, no saddles, high cadence, no rolling.

    you're like the anti-triathlete really aren't you?

    And no compression socks/tights/calf guards/Willy warmer. No swim watch, no power meter, no buoyancy shorts, I didn't do "Ironman Dublin"

    I'm trying to fit in now with my UCI illegal bike.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    tunney wrote: »
    Still cranky..........

    I'm quite content actually :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    BTH wrote: »
    And no compression socks/tights/calf guards/Willy warmer. No swim watch, no power meter, no buoyancy shorts, I didn't do "Ironman Dublin"

    I'm trying to fit in now with my UCI illegal bike.

    The PM from that UCI illegal bike is for sale if you're tempted. It didn't fit the new bike


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    pgibbo wrote: »
    The PM from that UCI illegal bike is for sale if you're tempted. It didn't fit the new bike

    I know, he was telling me. Funds just won't allow it. Flat broke.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    what type of pm?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    Quarg - no longer available


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭Kurt_Godel


    Well done on beating the drafter in the end. Anger is an energy :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    pgibbo wrote: »
    Quarg - no longer available

    He sold it already. Christ that was quick.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    BTH wrote: »
    He sold it already. Christ that was quick.

    They got an adapter and it fits the new bike :cool:


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    Monday: Plan said easy spin at most or nothing. The better half does taekwando on mondays, so most i got done was a good session of rolling and stretching.

    Tuesday: Early morning turbo, done at 6am pre work. legs usually don't have as much first thing in the morning. However, been thinking recently my easy power should be a bit higher. so this morning aimed to keep the power around 190 to 200. 5 30 sec sprints came in over 450w. ap for the hour 195, np 214.

    Evening Swim: Got a chance to go to the 50m pool. Apart from annual dip in there for the joey hannon race i haven't been there in about 2 years. crazy really with it being 20 minutes from me, but i have a pool with similar opening hours 3 mins from me, so even though it is only 18m it is handier. i always thought i was losing out by not swimming in the 50m.

    needn't have worried. sure, it might be shorter, and i might get more turns, and yeah my times are lower in it. but at least when the coach says fast 50 i get to swim fast for 50m, broken by 2 turns alright, but the swim portion is at the right effort. arrived at the 50m tonight, it was packed. two lanes open for the public, a slow and a fast. stood watching for a few minutes, didn't seem to be much difference but decided to play safe and jumped in the slow lane. lasted one length, before moving over. the pace in the slow lane was crawling.
    unfortunately the fast lane was no better. i'd get about 15m of decent pace before i found myself stuck behind someone with a solid line of swimmers coming the other way. so did as close to the plan as possible, and given i had more time than i expected as the session was originally going to be done pre work, i made it a bit longer. plan was for wu, 500m fist/pb, 500m sw/pb, fast 50's and wd. modified it to double sw/pb and scrapped the fast 50's as there was no way they were going to be fast anyway.

    good session, didn't find the longer lengths that much of a change, although was feeling them a bit by the end alright. defintiely a few seconds slower per 100, but tough to quantify exactly as i got about one clean 100 in the whole thing.

    good thing was it was quiter as i was leaving so now i know what time to hit it. might get there once a week for the longer lengths, but i think the workout in the 17m is better for effort levels

    2500m in 47 minutes ish. that time means nothing though


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭viperlogic


    Savage stuff and great report. Was hoping to do limerick this year but wasn't NS this year. Really enjoyed it last year thou conditions were poor.

    Chris didnt even know about the varsities in Naas. There were others from UCC up there thou. And also was plenty of drafting up at the front in Naas. A pack in front of me that I couldn't reel in and TI bike even came up behind them and just sat there and then a min later drove on. Didnt see any penalties handed out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,468 ✭✭✭sconhome


    mossym wrote: »
    .... but i have a pool with similar opening hours 3 mins from me, so even though it is only 18m it is handier.


    .. but i think the workout in the 17m is better for effort levels
    ...

    Be careful of that shrinking pool, might be too small for you one day ;)


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    sconhome wrote: »
    Be careful of that shrinking pool, might be too small for you one day ;)

    for two years i thought it was 17m. did all my calculations on numbers of lengths etc off that. well, to a point, for every 100m coach said swim, i swam 102. he got 2% extra free, so in every 2500m set i did an extra 50.

    however....

    i then get told a few months back it's not 17, it's 18. so doing an extra 8%,not 2, or pretty much an extra 200m per session.

    however, i've kept the watch on 17m, and still use the same calculations based on 17m.

    if i was being mean, i could point out that if it really is 18m, that means the swimming metres i've done and not counted in the last two years are more than your total swim distance in that whole time.


    but i'd never do that

    :D


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    viperlogic wrote: »

    Chris didnt even know about the varsities in Naas.

    one of the top young triathletes didn't know they were on? seems strange. don;t know the guy at all though...


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    Wednesday:

    Early morning run. out the door in the dark, suspected it would be cold, thought i had enough on, not even close. teeth chattering the whole way around the 45 mins. it was several degrees below, guessing as low as -3 or -4. had glove on but my hands which are always cold were like blocks of ice. few strides warmed me up a little but not enough. it was however, a beautiful morning if i'd been dressed right, crisp, sun came up while i was running and got to turn the headtorch off after 30 minutes and run in the morning light. 9.1km in just over 45 mins

    in Dublin for the day, so hit the pool that evening. (the 17/18m one this time)

    haven't swam consecutive days in a while. could feel the previous evenings swim in the arms at first. pool was busy, bit tight for space, lots of kids given the time i was there so a few interruptions when one of them would swim across in front of me, but not too bad. main set as 300's alt sw/pb. tired as these went on, the times started drifiting out by quite a bit, not sure if it was hunger(hadn't eaten) or fatigue, but they first couple were 5:10ish, the last couple were 5:30ish. pretty consistent from sw to pb too.

    some fast 50s then and my foot started cramping the minute i pushed off the wall. ended up doing these with the pb, and surprised to see i'm probably quicker without the PB when trying going fast, when i'm quicker with it when easy/steady. obviously kick better when driving hard. Course it could just have been that i didn't have a lot in the tank and would have been slower without the pb too.

    Warm down to finish.

    2600m in 50 minutes or so


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    Thursday : Evening Turbo.

    10 minutes of a warm up, 5 builds, then into 5* (3 mins @ 120%, 3 easy). target for the 120 was 320, and with the exception of the 4th one where i had a gearing issue these were tough but managable. intervals came in as 324w, 320w, 333w, 306w, 334w. 230w AP for the session, 256NP. average cadence of 82.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    mossym wrote: »
    Thursday : Evening Turbo.

    10 minutes of a warm up, 5 builds, then into 5* (3 mins @ 120%, 3 easy). target for the 120 was 320, and with the exception of the 4th one where i had a gearing issue these were tough but managable. intervals came in as 324w, 320w, 333w, 306w, 334w. 230w AP for the session, 256NP. average cadence of 82.

    Time to get a Neo and forget about those gearing issues :pac:


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    pgibbo wrote: »
    Time to get a Neo and forget about those gearing issues :pac:

    ssshhhhh. dont be giving me silly ideas.

    honestly, the issue was so silly i'd have messed up even on the neo. it wasn't being in the wrong gesr and power being low, it was having to stop pedalling to fix something power either side of the gap was right, but AP was down


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    Friday
    Early morning swim. some drills, then fast 50's. then onto 3*200sw, 4*150pb, 4*100 sw, with the effort going up for each set. fast 50's to finish again.

    first fast 50's on 43. 200's on 3:36 to 3:46, progressively slower, but knew the first one was too fast.150s on 2:29 to 2:36.the 100's on 1:37 to 1:39. happy enough with those at end of a long set. last 50's on 44. that's okay given the 1600m in between, i thought they would be slower.

    was glad to get out of the water after this one, longest swim in a while and the increasing efforts were tough. 3100m total.

    Evening run:
    usual intervals run on a friday. 5*4 quicker than the duathlon pace, so aiming for around 3:50 to 3:55. soon as i started i knew these would be hard. step was heavy and easy pace was down. first one too hot, probably the second too, and was struggling for the last 3. paces as 3:41,3:45, 3:58, 3:51, 3:53. middle one had a bit of uphill and a u-turn(that's the excuse for it being a bit slower).

    running this pace was easier in previous weeks, so was a little disappointed at how hard it felt, but on the flip side happy i got it mainly done, last couple were a deep dig to hit, HR well up into the 180's. have had a good few of these sessions where the last couple have drifted out to 4:10/4:15 as i tired so will take it.
    10:03km in 46 min, 4:36 avg pace.

    Saturday:
    was meant to be the long bike, but wife and the eldest were away friday night and i had the little one, they got home at 1 and went straight back out to a birthday party, so i swapped the long run to saturday. hour easy, 20 steady, 10 easy. legs were tired starting this. easy pace around 5:05min/km, steady 4:30 to 4:35 and feeling good. nice hilly route too so happy enough with the pace given how i felt.

    18km in 90 minutes.


    Sunday:
    Bike/run
    a rare outside bike after endless turbos. tweaked something in my back on saturday, nothing major, it's a regular occurence. so although the session called for hour easy, hour 80% race pace, hour easy, and i would have been better off with the tri bike and the PM, i took the road bike to keep things easy on the back. meant i was pretty much running off HR and RPE for hte effort levels

    first hour was fine, avg speed of 30km/hr solo so was tipping along. hour at 80* i targeted hr of 145 to 150, seemed about right, and if anything the effort level was a bit high based on how it felt. first 40 minutes of this hour was into a head wind, didn;t help, but got the hour done. normally don't eat on a 3 hour bike, but always have an emergency energy bar in the back pocket. absolutely devoured it after finishing the second hour, may have been a single bite.

    last hour was a struggle, legs had nothing left, was meant to be easy and it was, just spun away home. 95km in 3:10 all in.

    off the bike, onto run, had strapped my garmin around the outside of my jacket so i could see it while on bike, never put it back on after throwing on the running gear, but it was only a couple of km so did an out and back that i knew to be roughly a km or a little more, steady on the way out, easy on the way back. legs were ready for a rest when i got home


    Monday:
    easy 30 min run done late in the evening, after 9, when the better half got home from taekwando. was so close to canning it given the time, but headed out. lovely night, would have been nice if there was anything in the legs but kept the effort very easy and the HR low. total recovery run. 5.75km in 30 mins

    Tuesday Morning:
    Early turbo. in the shed at 6. don't really like doing hard intervals early in the morning because the legs never seem to have as much in them as in the evening. definitely the case this morning, legs were tired starting out. definitely a bit less than last week. 5* 4 mins targeting 315w to 320w with 3 recovery. intervals @ 306, 317, 313, 306, 299. disappointed with the last two, felt the effort level was right, but obviously not. pretty sure i'd have held them if done at 6pm rather than 6am :) guess that extra minute on each interval was tougher than i thought!!

    55 mins total, 211w AP, so definitely down on last week, teh big difference being the reoveries were much lower.


    been one of those really tough but good blocks the last few weeks, really feeling the affects which means the effort has been right. happy with that


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    Tuesday Evening:
    Swim: in the plan at 2200, but that was because i asked the coach for a sub hour session so it could be fit in pre work. as i was doing it post work, i fleshed it out a bit, main set was 10*100, so made that 15*100 and pulled the set to 2700m instead

    WU, fast 50s on 42, 42, 43, 42. then 15*100 alt pb easy/sw steady. these were all aorund the 1:40 mark, couple faster with the pb where i was a bit above easy, couple slower without, but around the 1:40 mark which given the effort was never too high i was happy with. last set of fast 50's on 41, 42, 42, 44.

    WD was meant to be 100k, pb, sw. on the kick, had the fins on, calf cramped completely. locked solid. thats a few times now the calves have locked up swimming, suspect a reduced water intake at the new job so addressing that. did the WD with the PB then to finish

    2700m in 54 mins. only other thing of note is they are renovating part of the pool, were painting or sealing something but the fumes in there were strong, manager was warning people but i was nearly done so kept going, think i floated out of the place

    Wednesday:
    Meant to run pre work but the overnight storm was in full flight. that meant i had both swim and run to do in the evening, so went with the run. 45 mins easy with strides, felt good, 4:57 pace overall, 9.12km, the strides all sub 3:20 pace and feeling really comfortable. cold night though

    will try and fit the swim in over the weekend.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    mossym wrote: »
    Friday
    Early morning swim. some drills, then fast 50's. then onto 3*200sw, 4*150pb, 4*100 sw, with the effort going up for each set. fast 50's to finish again.

    first fast 50's on 43. 200's on 3:36 to 3:46, progressively slower, but knew the first one was too fast.150s on 2:29 to 2:36.the 100's on 1:37 to 1:39. happy enough with those at end of a long set. last 50's on 44. that's okay given the 1600m in between, i thought they would be slower.

    was glad to get out of the water after this one, longest swim in a while and the increasing efforts were tough. 3100m total.

    Far be it for me to question what your coach prescribes, but does this concern you a little? You are struggling towards the end of a 3000m swim session. Theres a long way to go obviously. As far as I can tell, the big problem a lot of people have in IM is undercooking the swim training and as a result being unable to hold the bike effort they had planned to hold because the swim has taken too much out of them, but attempt to do so anyway and pay for it in spades later on in the day. As I said, theres plenty of time to put that right, but I would have thought that you'd want to be hitting 3k at least once or twice a week?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    BTH wrote: »
    As I said, theres plenty of time to put that right, but I would have thought that you'd want to be hitting 3k at least once or twice a week?

    fair point. the 3k+ swims had been in the plan, but read back over the log and see the missed days, plus me mentioning a few times the swim was the one that was suffering with the new job.

    on the being glad to finish, i think this was just how i felt on the day, not all swims are great. knocked out 2.7km on tuesday evening and felt fine, could have knocked out another 50% on top of that readily enough. tomorrow has an almost 4k swim which i'll be in the pool at lunchtime for, and i missed a 3k last night.
    the big swims are there, i just need to get them done. leaving home at 7 and not getting home till 7.30 makes swim time tough though. the lake opening for the season will help a lot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Really I think you need 4.5km swim once a week and the rest closer to 3k.

    But not point prescribing that if the shorter ones are not getting done.

    On another thread it was talked about what people thought the best thing to do in Lanza would be. The Swimmer said Swimming, the Biker said Biking and the Runner Running. Its also hugely interesting to see the skipped and shortened sessions too. You can also tell which disciplines that they hate based on the ones they always shorten and/or skip.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    the biker did suggest replacing the bike tonight with the missed swim.

    i would agree that people are most likely to skip the one they like least, but that's not always the reason. two of the disciplines can be worked into any schedule. started at 5.30, 6am. started after 9pm. just need to head out the door. i've done both those this week for bike and run.

    the other necessitates a specific start time. if they kick you of the pool at 9.15, you need to be there by 8 latest to get a long swim in. and no matter what maths i've worked, i can't make a 75 minute commute, an 8.30 work start time and a 7am pool opening time, with that pool being close to home, work.

    i'd actually guess my completion rate for prescribed swims was higher than that for runs and bikes when i was in my old job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    tunney wrote: »
    Really I think you need 4.5km swim once a week and the rest closer to 3k.


    Why? I'm asking purely from a time crunched perspective. Its a 90min set as apposed to the 3k 60min sets. If the target is 3.8k why is it necessary to train to 20% more? What benefit does it yield over say 19*200 or 3k CSS?

    I get that 1-1.5k extra is a good thing, if you have the time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    That's justification enough for an endless pool out the back of the house!:)

    Yeah swims are hard to schedule and fit around work/family. Up to 3k sets myself but it needs a 75min time slot to get there, get set done and get back to the office. I have priced up endless pool options for the house and they are far from cheap.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    this is the most interesting/useful discussion in my log in a while. keep it up folks..


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    Why? I'm asking purely from a time crunched perspective. Its a 90min set as apposed to the 3k 60min sets. If the target is 3.8k why is it necessary to train to 20% more? What benefit does it yield over say 19*200 or 3k CSS?

    I get that 1-1.5k extra is a good thing, if you have the time.

    For me my form rapidly deteriorates over time and distance to the point it seriously impacts on the bike (along with other issues). I find there is benefit to swimming those type of sets, perhaps once a week or a fortnight.

    On a separate note I would also prescribe over biking for those doing IM distance, i have had some guys do 200k+ bikes.


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