Bord Gais v Oil Fired Heating

chops018

Hi all,

I was just wondering about the above, we have oil fired heating in the house years. So we use this and some electrical heaters and the immersion. The oil heats up the immersion but we usually turn on the immersion too, so the electricity can get high during winter, along with the oil being a bit expensive.

Anyway, would switching to Bord Gais be better, and how does it work?

There is 5 of us in the house, so heating and electricity is used an awful lot.

Penny Dreadful

chops018 wrote: »

Hi all,

I was just wondering about the above, we have oil fired heating in the house years. So we use this and some electrical heaters and the immersion. The oil heats up the immersion but we usually turn on the immersion too, so the electricity can get high during winter, along with the oil being a bit expensive.

Anyway, would switching to Bord Gais be better, and how does it work?

There is 5 of us in the house, so heating and electricity is used an awful lot.

What is the BER on your house? You really shouldn't require oil, electical heaters and an immersion.
The oil would heat the water sufficiently and if not then that needs to be looked at.
The electrical heaters are expensive and (IMHO) an uncomfortable way of heating a room. Are the radiators in each room turned on fully? Is there a temperature gauge on them that perhaps isn't being turned up enough and so they aren't getting as warm as they could?
Is the thermostat in the house turned up as high as it should be?

shane b

Hi
Im a bit confused by your query.
Do you hope to switch energy providers for a discount in which case only your electricity will change to Bord Gais as I dont think they supply oil.
OR
Are you hoping to change to your heating system to Natural Gas which would mean a new gas connection, new boiler and plumbing costs. And posibly may not improve the level of heat in the house wothout other improvements.

Idbatterim

do you own the house and are you on a natural gas line?

chops018

Just to lower costs a bit really. I may look into the oil temps and thermostat etc. although I think that's all fine as they do heat the house well when on. Plus the oil heat does heat the immersion but not to boiling like the when the immersion is on.

Yeah, I know we have to cut back on using electrical heaters. We would switch them on when the oil heat isn't on.

How do you get one of them energy rating things for your house? It is the family home, and yes, we own it.

Penny Dreadful

You get a BER by having someone who can test the house properly call out. I had to get one when I was selling my house and found the man online. I used www.berassoc.ie It cost me €80 I think.

When you get the rating back it will give you tips and hints (including whether it is a high or low cost piece of work) on how to improve your BER.

With regard to the hot water, nothing is going to get the water as boiling hot as the immersion/electricity. However, oil gets the water very hot and is more than fine. The immersion is a killer and if you're turning the heat on and its heating the water anyway you're throwing money away by using the immerstion too.
Do you have a lagging jacket for your hot water cylinder? If not get one and it will keep the water hotter for longer than if you don't have one now.

Do you have a timer on your heat? If so just time it so that the heat comes on a little before you get home in the evening so the house is warm for you to come into. Then you'll cut down on your use of the electrical heaters if what you're doing is turning them on while waiting for the heat to warm the house up. You don't need to have the heat on in the bedrooms and bathrooms as much as you do in your living areas of the house. Also, if you have a radiator in the hallway turn it off. There is no benefit to having it on too as you're only passing through the hallway.

Overall if you're going to want your house to be tropical in terms of heat then there will be no difference between the use of gas and oil and topping it up with electrical heaters. You could try the astonishingly effected and low cost practice of wearing more clothes in the house, use a hot water bottle when watching tv if you're cold and cover yourself with a blanket.
Last night I was absolutely frozen for some reason and even though the heat was on I was still really cold. My husband thought I was mental but once I added in the hot water bottle and blanket I was golden.

chops018

Thanks for that, some good info there.

Yeah we have a lagging jacket, few years old now, so maybe invest in a new one. The boiler and heating system is nearly 10 years old too, but all seems fine and we get it serviced regularly etc.

I'd say cut down on immersion and electrical heater use, and use the oil heat a bit more, even if it means getting an extra 200 litres.... only thing is, the timer is broken. Would it be costly to get that fixed?

Penny Dreadful

chops018 wrote: »

Thanks for that, some good info there.

Yeah we have a lagging jacket, few years old now, so maybe invest in a new one. The boiler and heating system is nearly 10 years old too, but all seems fine and we get it serviced regularly etc.

I'd say cut down on immersion and electrical heater use, and use the oil heat a bit more, even if it means getting an extra 200 litres.... only thing is, the timer is broken. Would it be costly to get that fixed?[/QUOTE]

No not at all. If you need a new one you can pick them up yourself in Atlantic or Woodies or some such place. As you have one already it wouldn't take a lot for a new one to be connected.
Once your boiler is serviced regularly then it won't be causing you any problems. My parents have the same one now as when they built their house back in 1969 and it works a treat thanks to regular servicing.
They got the house wrapped about 3 years ago , insulated the attic properly and changed the windows too and got triple glazed ones put in. They now only need one fill of oil per winter. The house (which was previously baltic) is now so cosy and toasty warm.

chops018

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

chops018 wrote: »

Thanks for that, some good info there.

Yeah we have a lagging jacket, few years old now, so maybe invest in a new one. The boiler and heating system is nearly 10 years old too, but all seems fine and we get it serviced regularly etc.

I'd say cut down on immersion and electrical heater use, and use the oil heat a bit more, even if it means getting an extra 200 litres.... only thing is, the timer is broken. Would it be costly to get that fixed?[/QUOTE]

No not at all. If you need a new one you can pick them up yourself in Atlantic or Woodies or some such place. As you have one already it wouldn't take a lot for a new one to be connected.
Once your boiler is serviced regularly then it won't be causing you any problems. My parents have the same one now as when they built their house back in 1969 and it works a treat thanks to regular servicing.
They got the house wrapped about 3 years ago , insulated the attic properly and changed the windows too and got triple glazed ones put in. They now only need one fill of oil per winter. The house (which was previously baltic) is now so cosy and toasty warm.

Ah yes, insulation, so there is a few options out there to get the house a bit warmer and reduce costs.

I may try put the effort in, it's so easy to get lazy and give out about these things but never do them!

Penny Dreadful

chops018 wrote: »

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Ah yes, insulation, so there is a few options out there to get the house a bit warmer and reduce costs.

I may try put the effort in, it's so easy to get lazy and give out about these things but never do them!

You can avail of a grant to get your house made warmer. Its not a generous a grant as it used to be and you can only use it for one thing not multiple things (i.e. you can use it to put towards either wrapping of your house, replacing the windows or attic insulation but not all 3) and the work must be done by a recommended supplier.
My parents got the grant towards the wrapping of the house (granted before it was lowered) and it took a few thousand off the cost. They did reap the benefits of the work they had carried out very quickly. As they are pensioners and are at home quite a bit it is really nice that they are so much more comfortable in their home now rather than trying to eek out the oil over the cold winter months without having had to win the lottery to heat the house.

chops018

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

chops018 wrote: »

You can avail of a grant to get your house made warmer. Its not a generous a grant as it used to be and you can only use it for one thing not multiple things (i.e. you can use it to put towards either wrapping of your house, replacing the windows or attic insulation but not all 3) and the work must be done by a recommended supplier.
My parents got the grant towards the wrapping of the house (granted before it was lowered) and it took a few thousand off the cost. They did reap the benefits of the work they had carried out very quickly. As they are pensioners and are at home quite a bit it is really nice that they are so much more comfortable in their home now rather than trying to eek out the oil over the cold winter months without having had to win the lottery to heat the house.

700 litres or so usually gets us through the Winter, with a little left over come Spring when we stop using it, which isn't too bad in fairness.

It's just little things like poor insulation and over using of electrical heaters and the dreaded immersion!!!!!!

So you reckon it would be worth and extra 100 litres and if we want the tank to heat up for quick shower(s) stick on the heat for an hour or so?

Penny Dreadful

chops018 wrote: »

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

700 litres or so usually gets us through the Winter, with a little left over come Spring when we stop using it, which isn't too bad in fairness.

It's just little things like poor insulation and over using of electrical heaters and the dreaded immersion!!!!!!

So you reckon it would be worth and extra 100 litres and if we want the tank to heat up for quick shower(s) stick on the heat for an hour or so?

Worth is a very personal thing.;) Some people think its worth the spend to have their house so warm in winter that they can walk around in a t-shirt. Others things thats a complete waste of money.

You really need to look at how and when you turn your heating on and if you're using it most effectively and how much this costs you. This will help you to see if you're going to save money by spending on an extra 100 litres of oil and removing the immersion and electric heaters from the equation. Look over your old ESB bills and see how much you've been spending there and compare the cost of that against an extra 100 litres of oil. Obviously the bill won't denote the immersion cost against lightbulb costs but it will help to compare against the oil costs.
Also look at how you and the rest of your family are with leaving doors open, making sure windows are properly shut, lights are turned off when you leave a room, switch to energy saving bulbs, etc etc. There are many easy ways to cut back on your overall household bills.


Undoubtedly you will notice a different temperature in your house if you suddenly stop having the oil fired heating turned on at the same time as you have electrical heaters on. You'll get used to that quickly enough though.
I think the heating doesn't need to be on for long in the morning either. I have mine on for 15 minutes before I get up and for another 10 after so 25 in total. I'm up and out quickly on the mornings I'm going to work so it doesn't need to be on for longer than that. Some people don't bother with heating at all in the morning if they're up and out very quickly.

In the evening its timed to come on 30 minutes before I get home and for 30 minutes or so after. Then when the house begins to feel cool again I boost it for an hour / hour and a half if its particularly cold, otherwise I use a hotwater bottle and a blanket. If I'm busy in the house doing stuff, like hoovering or cleaning then I'm roasting anyway and don't need the heat. I only have the heat on in my bedroom and bathroom for the first part of the evening too.

chops018

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

chops018 wrote: »

In the evening its timed to come on 30 minutes before I get home and for 30 minutes or so after. Then when the house begins to feel cool again I boost it for an hour / hour and a half if its particularly cold, otherwise I use a hotwater bottle and a blanket. If I'm busy in the house doing stuff, like hoovering or cleaning then I'm roasting anyway and don't need the heat. I only have the heat on in my bedroom and bathroom for the first part of the evening too.

We would rarely have it on in the mornings, mostly evenings/nights for 2-4 hours, and if someone is home during the day if it is particularly cold then they might have it on then.

At the moment we seem to be just having it on for 2 hours in the evening.

There is only 2 areas with bad drafts, the bathroom where the catch for the window is broke, and through the partition in the kitchen where the backdoor is - need door needed tbh and the concrete (or whatever it is) around the bottom isn't great so loads of room for air/breeze to fly in, so the other door needs a towel at the bottom of it at night time if anyone is in there.

Plenty of food for thought though, thanks. Defo need to be using the oil more and electrical's less I think.

Penny Dreadful

chops018 wrote: »

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

We would rarely have it on in the mornings, mostly evenings/nights for 2-4 hours, and if someone is home during the day if it is particularly cold then they might have it on then.

At the moment we seem to be just having it on for 2 hours in the evening.

There is only 2 areas with bad drafts, the bathroom where the catch for the window is broke, and through the partition in the kitchen where the backdoor is - need door needed tbh and the concrete (or whatever it is) around the bottom isn't great so loads of room for air/breeze to fly in, so the other door needs a towel at the bottom of it at night time if anyone is in there.

Plenty of food for thought though, thanks. Defo need to be using the oil more and electrical's less I think.

You can buy a draugh excluder that is affixed to the bottom of the inside part of the door way which would work wonders with the back door issue. You get them in a hardwear shop and they are screwed on just at the bottom of the door. There is a thick heavy set of bristles that hits off the floor and blocks out the draught. It won't interfere with the opening or closing of the door.

Good luck with the project, hope it works out for you and you save money.

MicktheMan

chops018 wrote: »

Just to lower costs a bit really. I may look into the oil temps and thermostat etc. although I think that's all fine as they do heat the house well when on. Plus the oil heat does heat the immersion but not to boiling like the when the immersion is on.

Yeah, I know we have to cut back on using electrical heaters. We would switch them on when the oil heat isn't on.

How do you get one of them energy rating things for your house? It is the family home, and yes, we own it.

So the house cools quickly then when the heating is turned off?

If so, a ber won't tell you much as there is no actual testing of the house done.

You need a proper heat loss survey, a different animal altogether to the ber. This survey should include thermal imaging, air pressure testing and also a comprehensive explanation as to what is happening in your house (i.e. what exactly your house is cooling down quickly, it's not all about insulation!) + full report. A ber wont do this and will leave you none the wiser. No test is required to generate a ber cert and all the advice is generic in nature and generally not much use if you want to know what is actually happening in your home.

MicktheMan

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

You get a BER by having someone who can test the house properly call out.

No actual / physical testing of the house is required to produce a ber cert + report. The ber cert + report is produced by a computer program.

Rarely is a ber cert/report useful to the home owner who wants to fully understand why their house is cold / cools down too fast / too costly to heat.

Penny Dreadful

MicktheMan wrote: »

No actual / physical testing of the house is required to produce a ber cert + report. The ber cert + report is produced by a computer program.

Rarely is a ber cert/report useful to the home owner who wants to fully understand why their house is cold / cools down too fast / too costly to heat.[/QUOTE]

The one I got was good though in that it did give advice that was sound. Maybe I just got lucky.

MicktheMan

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

Maybe I just got lucky.

Perhaps, and you have no hidden/obscure major heat loss/discomfort issues.

shane b

BER is good for general information regarding insulating and draught proofing walls, floors, roofing and heating Controls, draught lobby, Solar panels etc. The U-values contained are useful if you have no understanding of insulation too but this information is generic and is the same in every report and doesnt really tell you anything about where the actual heat loses are in your specific home.

I have a ber for a house I bought 2 years ago and was costing a lot to heat. I got a door blower test and thermography survey done and the door blower test showed exactly where all the heat losses were in the house. The corresponding report gave reconmendations and approx costs to remedy in euros rather than the ber low, medium, high. Much more benefical although it did cost nearly €450 at the time for both tests.

Idbatterim

you could just install an electric shower in the bathroom...

runawaybishop

chops018 wrote: »

Penny Dreadful wrote: »

700 litres or so usually gets us through the Winter, with a little left over come Spring when we stop using it, which isn't too bad in fairness.

It's just little things like poor insulation and over using of electrical heaters and the dreaded immersion!!!!!!

So you reckon it would be worth and extra 100 litres and if we want the tank to heat up for quick shower(s) stick on the heat for an hour or so?

Electricity is a very very expensive way to get hot water, use your oil.

hfallada

A BER is an expensive piece of paper and depending on who does it, you can go up or down a few grades (the sunday times like 10 BER assessor to do the same house and the BERs varied up to 3/4 Grades).

The Gas standing charge may make any different in saving switching to oil tiny. However a new condensing boiler will save you about 25% on your bills. Most plumber agree servicing is a waste of money and a cash cow for the certain gas company which promotes it. Oil boilers need it now and again. But gas burns so clean it doesnt need it. Do you have your attic insulated? That can also save about 20-25%.

Gas in the future will probably become less expensive since America is producing a huge amount of it and they are only burning coal in their power plants. But oil will rise as supply isnt really increasing that much compared to gas

moxin

MicktheMan wrote: »

So the house cools quickly then when the heating is turned off?

Yes, that I'd say is a common occurrence. I once lived in a 90's built house where the heat generated from oil(though could be any source) disappeared within 30-40min of switching it off with no obvious source of leakage.

A house few doors down did get the whole external and internal walls insulated so my guess is that all the houses in the estate had the same issue as every house is identical. I'll never forget walking past a neighbours window whose occupants never pull the curtains for all to see inside their house from the street. They were sitting on the sofa's in the winter wrapped around in heavy blankets like they were in the Arctic circle

rosehip

moxin wrote: »

Yes, that I'd say is a common occurrence. I once lived in a 90's built house where the heat generated from oil(though could be any source) disappeared within 30-40min of switching it off with no obvious source of leakage.

A house few doors down did get the whole external and internal walls insulated so my guess is that all the houses in the estate had the same issue as every house is identical. I'll never forget walking past a neighbours window whose occupants never pull the curtains for all to see inside their house from the street. They were sitting on the sofa's in the winter wrapped around in heavy blankets like they were in the Arctic circle

This is a big heat loss issue - people never bothering to pull the curtains!

Pulling curtains (and decent ones - not flimsy see through ones) over every window in every room is very very necessary to keep heat in. And over any front or back door with a glass/window panel.

Yet a huge amount of people don't know this basic piece of information.

Thargor

An electric blanket on the bed is amazing, I think people nowadays think of them as old fashioned or something, you dont hear them mentioned at all but the increase in comfort for literally a few pennies a night is great, I dont think anything offers better value.