Thread Hijacking in Galway City Forum

Patrickheg

Hi all, posting a new thread as advised by Biko(originally posted in the weather thread which is now a big love in for the anti car brigade)

Anyone else sick of the way so many of the threads in the Galway City forum are hijacked by the same 2 or 3 posters who direct the thread in the direction of their anti car propaganda, with the eventual result of the thread turning into an argument zone? The sad part of it is that the the same argument from them over and over again. If you search these individuals posts it's clear to see that they are using boards.ie for the purpose of forcing their agenda / propaganda down people's throats (95% of their posts are anti car, anti road). They bombard the forum with stats / photos that suit their argument and if they are questioned in a way they don't like they move on and spam the next thread.

I follow a few other regional forums on boards and none of these are like this where the same 2 or 3 posters are allowed to cause argument time after time. Allowing this to continue is a joke as the forum is being ruined.

These types of threads are all almost identical, a thread starts that has potential to be a good one where a a large number of users contribute at the beginning then give up as the thread is hijacked and the few usual suspects are left flogging their fairy theories of everyone should cycle 15ks to work each day and anyone who drops their kid to school is evil, you would only work within a few miles of work, no new roads etc etc

A question for the mods. Any way to design a system where a thread can be marked as a "love in" so the rest of us can ignore these types of threads which have been hijacked, something like when bargain alerts mark a thread as "Expired"?

Mrs OBumble

No, I don't have a problem.

There a few threads that I don't read because they are about topics that don't interest me, eg Best Deals on Coal, cheap home-heating oil costs, the bargain alerts one, best cinema for 3D, the Occupy Galway ones, Making friends in Galway, etc. It's not difficult to ignore these - I just don't open them up. No need for markers etc, I just remember which ones I don't care about.

IMHO 'tis easy enough for others do the same for threads about topics that you don't care about.

And if you do care about the topics which lead to transport and environmental discussions, then feel free to post your own pro-car (or whatever) opinions, statistics etc. All good grist for the discussion mill. Do not expect everyone to agree with you, though.

Personally, I don't see "causing arguments" as a problem - disagreements are a good thing.

Redhairedguy

Moved to Feedback

WallyGUFC

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No, I don't have a problem.

There a few threads that I don't read because they are about topics that don't interest me, eg Best Deals on Coal, cheap home-heating oil costs, the bargain alerts one, best cinema for 3D, the Occupy Galway ones, Making friends in Galway, etc. It's not difficult to ignore these - I just don't open them up. No need for markers etc, I just remember which ones I don't care about.

IMHO 'tis easy enough for others do the same for threads about topics that you don't care about.

And if you do care about the topics which lead to transport and environmental discussions, then feel free to post your own pro-car (or whatever) opinions, statistics etc. All good grist for the discussion mill. Do not expect everyone to agree with you, though.

Personally, I don't see "causing arguments" as a problem - disagreements are a good thing.

I wouldn't class it as a fair discussion when people do, very often, make excellent points in favour of using cars, and are then abused and ridiculed for not cycling the 7km into work every morning in the pissing rain. It is plain to see that these certain posters have an agenda, and will use any thread to broadcast it. The Bodkin Roundabout thread was a wreck long before it was closed, the daily commute thread is a joke. Certain threads have been set up to broadcast this agenda as well. Constant pointless pictures of junctions (do the people in these pictures have the photographers permission to be posted online?), constant hyperbole and constant abuse of people who disagree with their opinions. The forum is being ruined by this minority, time for mods to act imo.

Iwannahurl

Patrickheg wrote: »

Hi all, posting a new thread as advised by Biko(originally posted in the weather thread which is now a big love in for the anti car brigade)

Anyone else sick of the way so many of the threads in the Galway City forum are hijacked by the same 2 or 3 posters who direct the thread in the direction of their anti car propaganda, with the eventual result of the thread turning into an argument zone? The sad part of it is that the the same argument from them over and over again. If you search these individuals posts it's clear to see that they are using boards.ie for the purpose of forcing their agenda / propaganda down people's throats (95% of their posts are anti car, anti road). They bombard the forum with stats / photos that suit their argument and if they are questioned in a way they don't like they move on and spam the next thread.

I follow a few other regional forums on boards and none of these are like this where the same 2 or 3 posters are allowed to cause argument time after time. Allowing this to continue is a joke as the forum is being ruined.

These types of threads are all almost identical, a thread starts that has potential to be a good one where a a large number of users contribute at the beginning then give up as the thread is hijacked and the few usual suspects are left flogging their fairy theories of everyone should cycle 15ks to work each day and anyone who drops their kid to school is evil, you would only work within a few miles of work, no new roads etc etc

A question for the mods. Any way to design a system where a thread can be marked as a "love in" so the rest of us can ignore these types of threads which have been hijacked, something like when bargain alerts mark a thread as "Expired"?

Care to define "hijacking", "propaganda", "spam" and "fairy theory" in this context?

Since you're searching posts by "these individuals", can you give specific examples of (a) questions they have avoided and (b) threads that have been "spammed" in the way you describe?

And finally, since you are an independent adult(?) with autonomy and free will, can you explain why you seem unable just to voluntarily ignore threads you don't like, as opposed to having someone -- a Mod perhaps -- tell you which ones you must not go near in case you might get into an argument?

Iwannahurl

WallyGUFC wrote: »

constant abuse of people who disagree with their opinions.

Quotes, links?

Acidflash

Well said OP. It’s an absolute joke at this stage. Threads that have nothing to do with cars / traffic being turned into anti car rants by the members of the anti car league is just pathetic. The forum has gone to the dogs the last while. Then again if you can get away with it you’re going to keep doing it.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No, I don't have a problem.
IMHO 'tis easy enough for others do the same for threads about topics that you don't care about.

You could start a thread about bakeries in Galway and it would end up being turned into an anti car rant by the usual few.

Patrickheg

@Mods, apologies for the misunderstanding

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

There a few threads that I don't read because they are about topics that don't interest me, eg Best Deals on Coal, cheap home-heating oil costs, the bargain alerts one, best cinema for 3D, the Occupy Galway ones, Making friends in Galway, etc. It's not difficult to ignore these - I just don't open them up. No need for markers etc, I just remember which ones I don't care aboutlg.

You are missing my point. It can obviously be assumed that a thread on the price of coal is what it is, my point is that it would be great to be able to apply the same logic to other threads such as a thread on Galway weather / bus timetables / roadworks / car accident etc etc rather than not realising that the thread has been hijacked and is just a front for these few usual offenders to spout their fairy theories.

Btw I'm not pro car, in fact I try to avoid if possible but I am realistic in that in order for a lot of people in Galway to live happy lives(get to work on time, get home on time to see their children, do their errands etc) they need their car and I'm not going to judge them for that and be relentless with my agenda.

If I remember correctly a few years ago Biko banned roadwork threads because of the above(exact same offenders) and it worked, once the ban was lifted the anti car brigade returned and we are back to a worse situation (IMO) than ever

Robbo

I think we should all look at how the Dutch handle this kind of thing.

Iwannahurl

Acidflash wrote: »

You could start a thread about bakeries in Galway and it would end up being turned into an anti car rant by the usual few.

Depends on which bakery, I would imagine.

Patrickheg

Iwannahurl wrote: »

finally, since you are an independent adult(?) with autonomy and free will, can you explain why you seem unable just to voluntarily ignore threads you don't like, as opposed to having someone -- a Mod perhaps -- tell you which ones you must not go near in case you might get into an argument?

See my reply above, in summary I wish it was as simple as you say and that one can assume that the contents of a thread are in line with the title but unfortunately these propagandists / spammers(only 2 or 3 but I'm sure you know who I am talking about) have no regard for thread titles and see every thread as a platform for their obsessive opinion

McTigs

I fail to see what the big deal is.

There's a few pro cycling people on the forum who put forward their view, there's a few pro car people who object to that view and put forward their own. Many of the threads involve the roads eg. People looking for advice on which side of town to live, Roundabouts, traffic problems etc so points of view are bound to turn up on both sides.

I drive, I bus, I walk and I cycle... so i'm all sides to be honest (not that i post that much), and what i notice happens on the roads is being reflected on the forum in that, and this gonna be inflamatory but whatever, motorists do believe that other road users are a nuisance and that follows on that their opinions on the forum are a nuisance.

Personally i enjoy cycling more than the other modes of transport i use and i do encourage it on here and in real life cos it's a joy and i'd love if more people enjoyed it for a multitude of reasons but idon't think i hijack or spam in the name of it.

Mr_A

I think there can be an issue with thread hijacking at times. For example when the GUFC thread was last brought back it was spammed with people who felt the club shouldn't get any coverage and the thread spoiled and then locked.

On the anti-car thing I'd say it's 50/50. There may be posters who're very pro bike / pedestrians / public transport but equally there are others who seem to see anyone not in a car as a lesser life form and don't want to even conceive of any contrary view.

Femme_Fatale

It can't be denied that there are people who hijack any thread at all to preach a message - e.g on After Hours, blaming anything at all, no matter how tenuously linked, on the public sector or religion.

People who say they don't know what the OP is on about are either being obtuse/disingenuous or missing his point. He's not saying he has a problem with differing points of view in a discussion, he's pointing out people barging in to push an agenda when not relevant.

You get people who sign up to push an agenda and it's easy to see through and they're banned after a few posts, but then there are the established members who skirt the line and it's not so easy to police.

Iwannahurl

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

It can't be denied that there are people who hijack any thread at all to preach a message

...

People who say they don't know what the OP is on about are either being obtuse/disingenuous or missing his point.

I may be missing the OP's point, so in the context of what the OP is addressing, it might be useful to have specific examples of where "any thread at all" in the Galway City forum has been "hijacked" in order to "broadcast" a particular "agenda", "force propaganda down people's throats" and "flog fairy theories" etc.

Thing is, one person's "agenda" could be another person's evidence-based argument, reasoned opinion or merely different perspective.

jkforde

if you can't formulate a concise & rational argument then don't whine that a thread has been 'hijacked'. put up an valid argument or move on... debating in a forum is what boards.ie is all about and goes back to the freekin' Greeks.... it's the foundation of democracy. what would you prefer? The road-to-nowhere of 'I'm right, you're wrong.'?

Femme_Fatale

Shrug. Some people just don't want to accept that people drag threads off topic in order to preach their agenda... which isn't debating at all, therefore not relevant.

An example: Whataboutery (all over Northern Ireland and gender threads); another example: bringing catholic church bashing into threads about (non clerical) child abuse.

We're not supposed to link to specific posters.

Iwannahurl

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

We're not supposed to link to specific posters.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the heads-up.

*points at the ignore function*

Problem solved

K-9

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Shrug. Some people just don't want to accept that people drag threads off topic in order to preach their agenda... which isn't debating at all, therefore not relevant.

An example: Whataboutery (all over Northern Ireland and gender threads); another example: bringing catholic church bashing into threads about (non clerical) child abuse.

We're not supposed to link to specific posters.

Funnily enough somebody brought up this evening how N.I. threads always end up dragging up the troubles. As a mod you are lucky they just bring up the troubles, some will go back to 1920/21, and that's forgetting the 800 years types.

Those type of posters tends to stick to the threads that interest them, it's when they start turning any thread that can in anyway be turned into an 800 years thread that it gets disruptive.

There's a difference between being passionate about a particular topic, and soap boxing, that is being so obsessive about a subject that you take any chance you can to turn a thread into your hobby horse.

It can be a subtle difference, my guideline would be looking at a thread topic and the general gist of an OP. If a poster continuously ends up diverting people away from the OP and onto another related topic, making people roll their eyes when they post, we've a problem.

It's all fine saying don't post if it annoys you that much, but what if loads of posters aren't posting because a couple of posters are putting far more of? There are a few posters who'd suck the will to live out of you, thankfully very rare. Sometimes the problem is is them, not the people who pity anybody engaging with said obsessive.

OldGoat

jkforde wrote: »

if you can't formulate a concise & rational argument then don't whine that a thread has been 'hijacked'. put up an valid argument or move on... debating in a forum is what boards.ie is all about and goes back to the freekin' Greeks.... it's the foundation of democracy. what would you prefer? The road-to-nowhere of 'I'm right, you're wrong.'?

Debate is brilliant when it works. However if the topic for debate is "A" but the posters are arguing about "B" then the thread has been taken off topic. When the argument "B" is occurring in numerous threads then it would appear that some posters are monopolising the forum.

Report it to the mods as off-topic posting. The mod can then do a number of things including moving the "B" posts to their own thread away from the "A" topic. If it is a persistent and therefore disruptive occurrence then a tougher mod measure might be called for.

Iwannahurl

K-9 wrote: »

There's a difference between being passionate about a particular topic, and soap boxing, that is being so obsessive about a subject that you take any chance you can to turn a thread into your hobby horse.

It can be a subtle difference, my guideline would be looking at a thread topic and the general gist of an OP. If a poster continuously ends up diverting people away from the OP and onto another related topic, making people roll their eyes when they post, we've a problem.

It's all fine saying don't post if it annoys you that much, but what if loads of posters aren't posting because a couple of posters are putting far more of?

There's also a difference between being passionate about or interested in a particular topic and being defensive about ones opinions or beliefs, especially ones that are widely shared.

Where a prevailing view or dominant discourse exists, and may be taken for granted by regular posters, a different perspective or contrary opinion -- especially one consistently and cogently argued perhaps -- may be seen, or may be portrayed, as soap-boxing, hijacking or whatever.

It is not outside the bounds of possibility that posters may not be posting in a given forum or thread for the simple reason that they don't like their views challenged or their opinion contradicted.

nesf

Debate isn't ramming the same points down people's throats in every thread that can be twisted to purpose. There's a difference between holding a position in a debate (e.g. I'm fiscally conservative) and soapboxing on something (e.g. me hammering on about public debt levels in every possible thread I could fit it into). Or another example: I think free healthcare and free travel is a bad idea, there should always be some token charge just so there's a cost (compensate with extra payments for the worst off or whatever), but I don't go into every public travel or public healthcare thread and start banging the drum on this. If people weren't convinced by the ninth explanation of your argument the tenth is unlikely to do any better.

The former tends not to annoy others apart from those who like to get annoyed about things, the latter tends to drive any regular posters in those threads away from those threads which is a bad thing.


This has been a problem on many different forums and there are plenty of solutions that have worked, varying from a quiet chat with the reasonable posters doing it (common) to site bans for the ones who just can't take a hint (rare).

Iwannahurl

nesf wrote: »

Debate isn't ramming the same points down people's throats in every thread that can be twisted to purpose.

...

If people weren't convinced by the ninth explanation of your argument the tenth is unlikely to do any better.

This has been a problem on many different forums and there are plenty of solutions that have worked, varying from a quiet chat with the reasonable posters doing it (common) to site bans for the ones who just can't take a hint (rare).

The phrase "ramming down people's throats" is hyperbole, imo.

If people are not convinced by the tenth iteration of a reasoned argument, then what does that say about their own repeatedly expressed opinions?

Is there something sacrosanct about a group of "regular posters" in any given forum or thread holding the same general position on a subject, even in the face of valid counter-arguments?

In some cases it may be purely subjective opinion, based on likes or dislikes or whatever. In others it could just be a stubborn unwillingness to accept a different way of thinking or even a new reality.

What I often find difficult about these conflicts is that Boards has its own internal logic which does not necessarily reflect real life. The issues may be important IRL and require energetic debate, whereas on Boards maybe the greater imperative for Mods is to keep RPs to a minimum.

My impression with regard to site banning is that it is a temporary solution, but I'm open to correction on that (which is not an invitation to ban me, btw ).

Patrickheg

Iwannahurl wrote: »

If people are not convinced by the tenth iteration of a reasoned argument, then what does that say about their own repeatedly expressed

Btw it's closer to the 300th iteration of the exact same argument, delivered in the exact same way each time (ie arrive into a thread and direct it away from the topic with massive replies and useless links and the odd dramatic photo). Seriously look over the posting history of these 2 or 3 posters. Thousands and thousands of posts on the exact same topic. They can't accept that for various reasons(I've given examples already) that people have to use their car.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Is there something sacrosanct about a group of "regular posters" in any given forum or thread holding the same general position on a subject, even in the face of valid counter-arguments?

You are stretching the word "group". It's 2 or 3 obsessive spammers. Just because the majority of posters(myself included) agree with their fundamental point about traffic in Galway doesn't mean that these few single agenda posters speak on their behalf, it's the constant speaking from a pulpit, looking down on everyone who uses their car on a daily basis, taking over threads, causing arguments that is turning me away from reading threads on the Galway city forum.

As I said no other regional forum on boards is like this where the same single agenda is forced onto forum users time and time again by 2 or 3 people on a soapbox.

Iwannahurl

Patrickheg wrote: »

Btw it's closer to the 300th iteration of the exact same argument, delivered in the exact same way each time

...

Seriously look over the posting history of these 2 or 3 posters. Thousands and thousands of posts on the exact same topic.

They can't accept that for various reasons(I've given examples already) that people have to use their car.

You are stretching the word "group". It's 2 or 3 obsessive spammers.

...turning me away from reading threads on the Galway city forum.

As I said no other regional forum on boards is like this where the same single agenda is forced onto forum users time and time again by 2 or 3 people on a soapbox.

You've obviously done a lot of research since 4th October 2013, and you seem to have drawn a lot of firm conclusions after just 49 posts.

The group I was referring to are what has been described in this thread as "regular posters", my point being that even if they consistently hold particular truths to be self-evident, does that mean their consensus cannot be challenged?

Don't give up on the Galway City forum just yet. With just 49 posts to your name so far, my own view, fwiw, is that it's a bit premature to be dismissing what others are contributing as "obsessive spamming" and "soapboxing".

Such early disillusion is not warranted. I think you'll find that in the Galway City forum, and indeed others such as Roads and Commuting & Transport, reasoned opinion and evidence-based argument is the preferred mode of discussion.

Traffic and transportation are hot topics for Galwegians IRL, so I think lively debate is to be both expected and welcomed. There isn't a week goes by without one of the local papers publishing some report, editorial, opinion piece or 'scandal' about traffic-related matters. It would be surprising if the Galway City forum were any different, imho.

nesf

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The phrase "ramming down people's throats" is hyperbole, imo.

If people are not convinced by the tenth iteration of a reasoned argument, then what does that say about their own repeatedly expressed opinions?

Is there something sacrosanct about a group of "regular posters" in any given forum or thread holding the same general position on a subject, even in the face of valid counter-arguments?

In some cases it may be purely subjective opinion, based on likes or dislikes or whatever. In others it could just be a stubborn unwillingness to accept a different way of thinking or even a new reality.

What I often find difficult about these conflicts is that Boards has its own internal logic which does not necessarily reflect real life. The issues may be important IRL and require energetic debate, whereas on Boards maybe the greater imperative for Mods is to keep RPs to a minimum.

My impression with regard to site banning is that it is a temporary solution, but I'm open to correction on that (which is not an invitation to ban me, btw ).

The site bans were special. I won't go into them but I will say that not a single poster from any of the many forums that these people were causing hassle in ever did anything but thank the mods for dealing with the user including those who'd be ion the same "side." We're talking disruption on a far wider and greater scale than what is being discussed in this thread.


"Ramming it down people's throats" isn't hyperbole. Let me use an analogy. I've a friend, I do like him a lot but we can never bring up politics around him because he just goes on these long rants that we've heard many times about injustices here or abuse of power there and whatever. Him having these views is fine, he's entitled to them, but his shoe horning of them into any political discussion and twisting the topic around to one of his hobby horses means we never discuss politics around him and veer off-topic quickly when he starts.

My friend is doing what some posters do with their pet topic. Forcing it in every chance they get. Now it's because they're passionate about it, which is good but part of the whole debate/conversation/whatever thing is that it isn't just meant to be about a handful of people trying to shout each other down whilst everyone else can't get a word in. Hammering the point home over and over in threads is just going to annoy everyone else. A single well made post is worth fifty "copy pasted" arguments wedged into every available thread.

beardybrewer

WELCOME TO THE INTERWEBS!

Don't know if anyone told you yet, but there is this cool site called Wikipedia where you can get info for anything, like forums! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum

Don't worry, everything is working fine. This is how forums are. Because you are interacting with other human beings, sometimes things don't go exactly the way you want.

PS: If you found this upsetting, you should probably stay away from Reddit.

Iwannahurl

nesf wrote: »

The site bans were special. I won't go into them but I will say that not a single poster from any of the many forums that these people were causing hassle in ever did anything but thank the mods for dealing with the user including those who'd be ion the same "side." We're talking disruption on a far wider and greater scale than what is being discussed in this thread.

I'll take your word for it re site bans, and the ongoing effects of same.

I also appreciate your point with regard to disruption, as opposed to hot dispute and impassioned debate.

Mrs OBumble

Acidflash wrote: »

You could start a thread about bakeries in Galway and it would end up being turned into an anti car rant by the usual few.

Disproof by counterexample: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057088062

nesf

newkie wrote: »

WELCOME TO THE INTERWEBS!

Don't know if anyone told you yet, but there is this cool site called Wikipedia where you can get info for anything, like forums! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum

Don't worry, everything is working fine. This is how forums are. Because you are interacting with other human beings, sometimes things don't go exactly the way you want.

PS: If you found this upsetting, you should probably stay away from Reddit.

I can downvote the morons on Reddit. It makes me feel better about myself.