Rugby World Cup bid - Castlebar/Westport involvement?

irishgeo

one issue lads, the gaa dont allow any other games to take place in their grounds. croke park and the rugby world cup are execptions.

there was a club fined by gaa headquarters for having a soccer school on their gaa ground.

The Lost Sheep

farmchoice wrote: »

i know they dont (just focus on galway)and i dont mean to run down anyone involved they have done a great job expanding the base.

im only suggesting giving it a try move two games next year and promote it like hell, you might be very surprised with the result you will get.

watch attendances at allianz league matches in mayo and roscommon this year, mayo alone are going to get hugh crowds 25k plus, there is a huge appetite for big sporting events and if rugby get out there they can tap into it.
the worst that can happen is it doesn't work out, but there is nothing to lose by trying, absolutely nothing.

I don't see it happening. You might get a pre season game at best but moving a competitive game is never going to happen.
Trying to compare Mayo football attendances isn't a comparison. Connacht could try but they will if its deemed right time to and now isn't. They will have open training sessions, media days. Possibly move a British and Irish Cup game where the Connacht Eagles are playing. See what crowd attends one of those games and if that's a success then look at moving a pro12 game but moving one or two games just isn't feasible.

farmchoice

irishgeo wrote: »

one issue lads, the gaa dont allow any other games to take place in their grounds. croke park and the rugby world cup are execptions.

there was a club fined by gaa headquarters for having a soccer school on their gaa ground.

as far as i know and im open to correction but the gaa changed their stance on this at congress a few years ago, central council can now decide on a case by case basis any request for use of grounds, i dont hink this applies to club grounds.
i'm not sure of the exact wording but i know it is now a lot more straight forward.

farmchoice

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I don't see it happening. You might get a pre season game at best but moving a competitive game is never going to happen.
Trying to compare Mayo football attendances isn't a comparison. Connacht could try but they will if its deemed right time to and now isn't. They will have open training sessions, media days. Possibly move a British and Irish Cup game where the Connacht Eagles are playing. See what crowd attends one of those games and if that's a success then look at moving a pro12 game but moving one or two games just isn't feasible.

i dont mean to be a dick about this, but why? you keep saying it wont happen, it wont happen, but you are not giving a single reason why it shouldn't or couldn't.
then you say the time isn't right surely there has literally never been a better time? connaught rugby is on a high, there is an appetite for the game,now is the perfect time to get out there.

i'm only using the mayo football comparison to show what could be done. mayo are now on a run of success (no jokes please) and their crowds have grown and grown.
connaught are also enjoying a period of success so strike while the iron is hot.

The Lost Sheep

farmchoice wrote: »

i dont mean to be a dick about this, but why? you keep saying it wont happen, it wont happen, but you are not giving a single reason why it shouldn't or couldn't.
then you say the time isn't right surely there has literally never been a better time? connaught rugby is on a high, there is an appetite for the game,now is the perfect time to get out there.

i'm only using the mayo football comparison to show what could be done. mayo are now on a run of success (no jokes please) and their crowds have grown and grown.
connaught are also enjoying a period of success so strike while the iron is hot.

Demand/interest for it. A proper suitable venue.

Connacht Rugby is on a high but from a very low base. Mayo Football has always had considerable support and its structure in terms of games etc is completely different.
If testing the market you don't do it with a pro12 game. You hold a game involving Connacht A/Eagles and see what crowd you get and see how it is managed. Then you see whether its worthwhile enough to move a pro12 game

Jayop

Throwing my tupence in to this, but if connaught had a few games in Castlebar then myself and a load of others from South sligo would go but I'd never try to get to a game in the sports ground. If just for novelty factor alone I'd say you'd get a huge number in Castlebar from sligo, Tubbercurry, Ballina and other places that are nearby.

Jayop

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Demand/interest for it. A proper suitable venue.

Connacht Rugby is on a high but from a very low base. Mayo Football has always had considerable support and its structure in terms of games etc is completely different.
If testing the market you don't do it with a pro12 game. You hold a game involving Connacht A/Eagles and see what crowd you get and see how it is managed. Then you see whether its worthwhile enough to move a pro12 game

That's asking for failure though. If you want people to come to a new venue then you need to make it attractive and have it pretty uncommon. One or two games a year in Castlebar would get a big crowd, I'd be sure of it.

The Lost Sheep

Jayop wrote: »

Throwing my tupence in to this, but if connaught had a few games in Castlebar then myself and a load of others from South sligo would go but I'd never try to get to a game in the sports ground. If just for novelty factor alone I'd say you'd get a huge number in Castlebar from sligo, Tubbercurry, Ballina and other places that are nearby.

Connacht should look at playing games to attract people who may not travel from northern areas of province but moving a pro12 game is trying to run before you can walk. Play an Eagles/Connacht A game like a British and Irish Cup game first and then look at a pre season friendly and if each of these are successful enough then look at a pro12 game.

Jayop

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Connacht should look at playing games to attract people who may not travel from northern areas of province but moving a pro12 game is trying to run before you can walk. Play an Eagles/Connacht A game like a British and Irish Cup game first and then look at a pre season friendly and if each of these are successful enough then look at a pro12 game.

But what do you then deem as successful? You're trying to attract non hard core rugby people with a very unattractive game. It's a hiding to nothing.

Jayop

Like the sports ground holds 8k. I see it as being absolutely unfeasible for anyone to say that a one off game in the pro 12 in Castlebar wouldn't at least get that number. Subsequent games may not get as many but a one off event would for novelty factor. If you instead put on a game that wouldn't get a crowd even in Galway then naturally non rugby fans would bother trying it out.

The Lost Sheep

Jayop wrote: »

But what do you then deem as successful? You're trying to attract non hard core rugby people with a very unattractive game. It's a hiding to nothing.

You don't start with a pro12 game you ease up the ladder. It would have been like Munster moving a pro12 game to Waterford. They haven't and are unlikely to but at least they've tested the water with first Munster A games and then a senior pre season friendly.

farmchoice

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Demand/interest for it. A proper suitable venue.

Connacht Rugby is on a high but from a very low base. Mayo Football has always had considerable support and its structure in terms of games etc is completely different.
If testing the market you don't do it with a pro12 game. You hold a game involving Connacht A/Eagles and see what crowd you get and see how it is managed. Then you see whether its worthwhile enough to move a pro12 game

well regarding demand/interest i suppose that's where we differ i feel there is the interest and there is huge potential there if done right.

on a suitable venue, every county ground in connaught. castlebar, roscommon, sligo, and carrick on shannon are all more suitable then the present ground so no problem there, they are all bigger with better stands and terracing so better views, they all have good facilities and access, they are all located in towns with rail links airport access etc.
if the IRFU consider castlebar a suitable venue for a world cup game then i think it will do for connaught

if testing the market i would feel you dont do it with some meaningless A team game. as you said yourself at present they are not selling out pro 12 games so why not move one, nothing in the world to lose so what if you only get 6,000 against cardiff it would be nearly double what they were getting last year a lot of the time.

actually looking at last years attendance figures the game to move is either the Munster or Lenister game or both) you could easily get 25,000 to either of those, 3 times the crowd you would get in galway.

actually when you think about it they are the perfect games to move, even if my figures were way off and you only got 10,000 it would still be 50% increase on the sportsground.

Jayop

Comparing munster moving out of thomand is kinda pointless as it's incomparable to what we're talking about here. Moving from thomand means they risk reducing the gate. Moving connaught from Galway for one game to s much bigger ground can really only mean they get a bigger gate. Apples and oranges.

The Lost Sheep

farmchoice wrote: »

well regarding demand/interest i suppose that's where we differ i feel there is the interest and there is huge potential there if done right.

on a suitable venue, every county ground in connaught. castlebar, roscommon, sligo, and carrick on shannon are all more suitable then the present ground so no problem there, they are all bigger with better stands and terracing so better views, they all have good facilities and access, they are all located in towns with rail links airport access etc.
if the IRFU consider castlebar a suitable venue for a world cup game then i think it will do for connaught

if testing the market i would feel you dont do it with some meaningless A team game. as you said yourself at present they are not selling out pro 12 games so why not move one, nothing in the world to lose so what if you only get 6,000 against cardiff it would be nearly double what they were getting last year a lot of the time.

actually looking at last years attendance figures the game to move is either the Munster or Lenister game or both) you could easily get 25,000 to either of those, 3 times the crowd you would get in galway.

actually when you think about it they are the perfect games to move, even if my figures were way off and you only got 10,000 it would still be 50% increase on the sportsground.

I'm involved heavily in the sport in the province. Coaching, refereeing etc etc.
There isn't the demand or need to move games. Have you been to games in Sportsground on a regular basis?
Connacht don't even sell out the sportsground regularly.

Jayop

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I'm involved heavily in the sport in the province. Coaching, refereeing etc etc.
There isn't the demand or need to move games. Have you been to games in Sportsground on a regular basis?
Connacht don't even sell out the sportsground regularly.

Hence why they don't have much to lose by taking a chance and having a game somewhere when it will be a novelty.

The Lost Sheep

Jayop wrote: »

Hence why they don't have much to lose by taking a chance and having a game somewhere when it will be a novelty.

They would. You have rent to pay for taking game elsewhere. Costs of that etc
You look at playing British and Irish cup games around the province. See what interest you get from those games. See how venues manage with that level of game. Then if that's a success you look to move bigger games.
There is loads to lose from moving a pro12 game.

Jayop

Costs of that etc? You mean literally just the cost of that.

I'm sure McHale Park isn't charging what wembley do and if they want to hold world Cup games then they'd be falling over themselves to accommodate connaught.

farmchoice

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

They would. You have rent to pay for taking game elsewhere. Costs of that etc
You look at playing British and Irish cup games around the province. See what interest you get from those games. See how venues manage with that level of game. Then if that's a success you look to move bigger games.
There is loads to lose from moving a pro12 game.

there is absolutely nothing to lose!!! you would negotiate a percentage take with the gaa, this means there is a safety net if the crowd dont materialize and its also means its the gaa's interest to get as big a crowd as possible. the gaa would really want this to succeed as it would lead to future income.

if you held the leinster game in castlebar and got as few as 17000 which is a is a very conservative figure then the connaught rugby would at the very minimum be in for a windfall of €150,000 to 200,000 and in reality it could be substantially more then that, how many players would that pay for a year.

this one game a year would probably net as much as all the home Heineken cup games put together in the sports ground.

The Lost Sheep

farmchoice wrote: »

there is absolutely nothing to lose!!! you would negotiate a percentage take with the gaa, this means there is a safety net if the crowd dont materialize and its also means its the gaa's interest to get as big a crowd as possible. the gaa would really want this to succeed as it would lead to future income.

if you held the leinster game in castlebar and got as few as 17000 which is a is a very conservative figure then the connaught rugby would at the very minimum be in for a windfall of €150,000 to 200,000 and in reality it could be substantially more then that, how many players would that pay for a year.

this one game a year would probably net as much as all the home Heineken cup games put together in the sports ground.

This is all delusional stuff.
There is loads to lose. You are simply assuming crowds would be way bigger. GAA wouldn't take a percentage take. They like any group who knows what theyre doing would be looking for a flat rate.
Moving a bigger game is fantasy stuff. How is 17000 a conservative figure?

farmchoice

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

This is all delusional stuff.
There is loads to lose. You are simply assuming crowds would be way bigger. GAA wouldn't take a percentage take. They like any group who knows what theyre doing would be looking for a flat rate.
Moving a bigger game is fantasy stuff. How is 17000 a conservative figure?

i dont think its delusional i think its aspirational.
a few years ago you would have been right about the Gaa but at present castlebar needs income to pay their loans, if they felt a good deal now could lead to future games and income they would take it i have no doubt about that.

the sports ground is an incredibly unattractive ground to go to as a casual or new fan if you are from anywhere north of tuam the traffic in and out is a nightmare and the ground its-self is.... well its crap.

lets say 7500 people go to galway v lenister this year, well if they go next year then the idea of getting 10,000 more fans from all of mayo, roscommon, sligo, letrim and all the extra lenister fans who can now get tickets is far from unrealistic.
if you build it they will come!! think big!!!

The Lost Sheep

farmchoice wrote: »

i dont think its delusional i think its aspirational.
a few years ago you would have been right about the Gaa but at present castlebar needs income to pay their loans, if they felt a good deal now could lead to future games and income they would take it i have no doubt about that.

the sports ground is an incredibly unattractive ground to go to as a casual or new fan if you are from anywhere north of tuam the traffic in and out is a nightmare and the ground its-self is.... well its crap.

lets say 7500 people go to galway v lenister this year, well if they go next year then the idea of getting 10,000 more fans from all of mayo, roscommon, sligo, letrim and all the extra lenister fans who can now get tickets is far from unrealistic.
if you build it they will come!! think big!!!

I don't see it happening. There is nothing to show that they would come. Sportsground isn't fantastic. It doesn't have fantastic facilities but it has ease of access for opposition fans that wont be same in castlebar for one off games. Connacht are much better off based in Galway City for games.
Traffic can be worked at. Arranging of park and ride etc. I don't see anything like an extra 10000 coming to a run of the mill pro12 game if you moved it.

Westernyelp

This idea was floated last year by Connacht execs (yer man from Ballina) the GAA said they could not do it without passing it at Congress. So that's were the Block is. Don't think attendance would be an issue. And it's certainly a better spot than Pearse for the WC imo

Jayop

Westernyelp wrote: »

This idea was floated last year by Connacht execs (yer man from Ballina) the GAA said they could not do it without passing it at Congress. So that's were the Block is. Don't think attendance would be an issue. And it's certainly a better spot than Pearse for the WC imo

Ya the only block I can see is the GAA but that will be removed soon enough imo.

lockyjpl

farmchoice wrote: »

i dont think its delusional i think its aspirational.
a few years ago you would have been right about the Gaa but at present castlebar needs income to pay their loans, if they felt a good deal now could lead to future games and income they would take it i have no doubt about that.

the sports ground is an incredibly unattractive ground to go to as a casual or new fan if you are from anywhere north of tuam the traffic in and out is a nightmare and the ground its-self is.... well its crap.

lets say 7500 people go to galway v lenister this year, well if they go next year then the idea of getting 10,000 more fans from all of mayo, roscommon, sligo, letrim and all the extra lenister fans who can now get tickets is far from unrealistic.
if you build it they will come!! think big!!!

It's the "Think big!!!" comment I'm referring to here.
Munster 'taught big' & now owe millions to the IRFU for Thomond which they can't repay.
Mayo Council 'taught big' with McHale park & are in a similar situation.
Baby steps is what's needed. Redevelop the SG or build new, but it has to be in Galway.
There is 80,000 on there doorstep, that's not including the county population.
It isn't selling out because who wants to get soaked unless your a dye hard supporter. Once proper stands are built then the attendance will definitely increase.
There are so many new ST holders I've chatted over the last few months & asked them if they were at such & such a game. The response from a good few was 'I had planned, but......'
The facilities are pretty poor but they would be nuts to leave the most densely populated part of the Province.
Redevelopment is what's needed, increase the attendance, which new facilities definitely would do & then, certainly, look throughout the Province for a second home.

Jayop

lockyjpl wrote: »

It's the "Think big!!!" comment I'm referring to here.
Munster 'taught big' & now owe millions to the IRFU for Thomond which they can't repay.
Mayo Council 'taught big' with McHale park & are in a similar situation.
Baby steps is what's needed. Redevelop the SG or build new, but it has to be in Galway.
There is 80,000 on there doorstep, that's not including the county population.
It isn't selling out because who wants to get soaked unless your a dye hard supporter. Once proper stands are built then the attendance will definitely increase.
There are so many new ST holders I've chatted over the last few months & asked them if they were at such & such a game. The response from a good few was 'I had planned, but......'
The facilities are pretty poor but they would be nuts to leave the most densely populated part of the Province.
Redevelopment is what's needed, increase the attendance, which new facilities definitely would do & then, certainly, look throughout the Province for a second home.

I don't think anyone with any sense would suggest that the base for the team and a new or newly developed ground should be in Galway. It's got the population base to host a team and nowhere else in the north west has similar.

However a game or two in Castlebar while the sports ground is as it is now can only be beneficial to the side in building support and generating income in the short term.

Xenji

I know quite a few people who would jump at the chance of seeing a match in McHale park, mainly just for the experience and to say they saw a rugby game live, but I doubt the majority of them would be back for a second match.

Jayop

Xenji wrote: »

I know quite a few people who would jump at the chance of seeing a match in McHale park, mainly just for the experience and to say they saw a rugby game live, but I doubt the majority of them would be back for a second match.

I think you could have one a year there quite easily and get a decent crowd.

Coillte_Bhoy

there isnt a hope in hell of this being allowed by the GAA. Farmchoice hasnt really thought this through and as for Mayo getting 25k crowds for NFL games :pac:

Dudda

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1491423957556652&id=275715192460874

Nice short video on McHale Park and the rugby world cup bid. The official video with the four main stadiums released earlier in the week looks great and this was obviously based on it.

signostic

Dudda wrote: »

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1491423957556652&id=275715192460874

Nice short video on McHale Park and the rugby world cup bid. The official video with the four main stadiums released earlier in the week looks great and this was obviously based on it.

not so nice...that video makes it look like a stadium from the Soviet Union circa 1975