City 24.11.2013

Hatch99

golfball37 wrote: »

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

No I had seen enough of Modric to know he was the real deal. The two games against England being a case in point. Natural ability never goes he just had to be taught how to utilise it in England. Paulinho doesn't have the same skillset at all, in fact he looks clumsy on the ball and keeps getting in the way.


I'll hold you to that so- Paulinho will turn out to be as good as either of them?:) He can't even control a ball from what I've seen of him.

In fairness, crap players don't play for Brazil as often as he has. As some know, I don't support this tiredness thing, but he genuinely looks shattered to me and seems like he can't get around the park.

positivenote

There are some amount of idiots around the board these days. Claiming that Paulihno is useless just kind of sums it up... he didnt even make it in Poland??? arguments have resorted to picking out the worst element of a players career, ignoring anything positive and basing your argument on it. We clocked up record points under AVB last season, yes more than honest harry, but lets ignore that because its now that matters.... :mad::mad:

tom1ie

your right there are some amount of idiots on the boards these days, would ya not think that the avb record points hall was in a large part down to bales goals? of course avb sold bale and he has changed last seasons tactics. Under harry we finished 4th twice, got to the quarter finals of the champions league and played the best attacking football in the epl, all under "honest harry". You have a very short memory and your right theres a lot of idiots around boards these days........................

mushykeogh

DubPerryman wrote: »

Before that we snook in to the 'top four' with Harry,

Are you for real? We snook into the top 4? I thought we earned it, do you not remember going to city, our closest rivals for fourth and beating them to secure 4th? Was anyone on here saying we sneaked it? was there fook. That is a really stupid comment imo. How many teams sneak into 4th in the prem league 2 years out of 3?????!

Going to Old Trafford and winning earned us a lot of respect throughout the league and that has carried on to this season.

West ham and newcastle really showed us respect this season didnt day, ffs we were blessed to beat hull.

KingdomYid

In fairness the 'snook in' comment is totally unfair to what was achieved in both those seasons.

I know we had Modric and VDV and Bale those seasons but there has been 100 million spent so similar results will be expected by seasons end I feel.

wonderfullife

It's well and good saying things are not so bad points wise but a lot of people seem to be glossing over the impact this result had on goal difference.

The general consensus is this could be one of the tightest, hardest fought seasons in living memory.

There's 7 teams with absolutely genuine realistic ambitions of finishing in the top 4:

Arsenal
City
Chelsea
Liverpool
Everton
United
Spurs

Followed by 2 dark horses in the Pochettino machine at Southampton and in Newcastle, who are the type of streaky team who can string a sequence together.

Simple fact is this, Goal Difference has a very realistic chance of being a factor this year. Whether it's for the title, for 2nd, 3rd, or that vital 4th place.

-3 after 12 games shows the inherent danger in 1-0 wins. you can win 4 or 5 games on the trot 1-0 then take 1 spanking and your goal difference is goosed.

Spurs have given City a 25 goal head-start now. Arsenal 17 goals. Liverpool/Chelsea 14 goals. Only United, Everton and Newcastle are within some sort of reach of overhauling.

In short, the season is already butchered and beyond saving when it comes to goal difference.

Of course, the league is decided on points. So if Spurs can turn the ship around, it won't matter. But to already be cut adrift in that particular race is disconcerting.

I've got a strong feeling this years champions will finish on one of the lowest ever total points for 1st place. That'll lead to a concertina effect for positions 2,3 and 4.

On a slightly separate note, bit of a kick in the teeth for Defoe. His side taking an absolute spanking and one of the best English finishers of his generation (probably THE best) sat on his hole. Final straw for the lad. Watched his documentary on ITV4, contrary to public perception he seems a cracking lad with a good head on his shoulders. Feel for him.

wandatowell

2 points off 4th place. Considering ye aren't playing well and struggling to find goalscoring form things ain't too bad.

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/league-table.html

yiddo59

KingdomYid wrote: »

In fairness the 'snook in' comment is totally unfair to what was achieved in both those seasons.

I know we had Modric and VDV and Bale those seasons but there has been 100 million spent so similar results will be expected by seasons end I feel.

Ah yeah but the 4th finishes had nothing to do with Rednapp. Levy signed VDV. (Harry never heard of him ) Levy kept Modric and Harry wanted to give Bale away to Forest for a pallet of dog food.

Although Sunday was a shocker results like that do happen in the epl. More worrying is the fact that we haven't scored from play in the league since the 2-0 win at Villa on 20th October.

DubPerryman

mushykeogh wrote: »

Are you for real? We snook into the top 4? I thought we earned it, do you not remember going to city, our closest rivals for fourth and beating them to secure 4th? Was anyone on here saying we sneaked it? was there fook. That is a really stupid comment imo. How many teams sneak into 4th in the prem league 2 years out of 3?????!

You're missing the context of the comment... maybe I didn't make myself clear. In the eyes of the conventional 'top 4' we did not deserve to be there. As in, we were just blow-ins and we'd blow back out again.

We're a stronger team now than the team Harry built.... yes, we all know we're not firing on all cylinders, but if AVB can get the front 4 or 5 clicking, everyone in the league will fear us and will know that we will be challenging in the foreseeable future for a number of titles.

DubPerryman

wonderfullife wrote: »

It's well and good saying things are not so bad points wise but a lot of people seem to be glossing over the impact this result had on goal difference.

The general consensus is this could be one of the tightest, hardest fought seasons in living memory.

There's 7 teams with absolutely genuine realistic ambitions of finishing in the top 4:

Arsenal
City
Chelsea
Liverpool
Everton
United
Spurs

Followed by 2 dark horses in the Pochettino machine at Southampton and in Newcastle, who are the type of streaky team who can string a sequence together.

Simple fact is this, Goal Difference has a very realistic chance of being a factor this year. Whether it's for the title, for 2nd, 3rd, or that vital 4th place.

-3 after 12 games shows the inherent danger in 1-0 wins. you can win 4 or 5 games on the trot 1-0 then take 1 spanking and your goal difference is goosed.

Spurs have given City a 25 goal head-start now. Arsenal 17 goals. Liverpool/Chelsea 14 goals. Only United, Everton and Newcastle are within some sort of reach of overhauling.

In short, the season is already butchered and beyond saving when it comes to goal difference.

Of course, the league is decided on points. So if Spurs can turn the ship around, it won't matter. But to already be cut adrift in that particular race is disconcerting.

I've got a strong feeling this years champions will finish on one of the lowest ever total points for 1st place. That'll lead to a concertina effect for positions 2,3 and 4.

On a slightly separate note, bit of a kick in the teeth for Defoe. His side taking an absolute spanking and one of the best English finishers of his generation (probably THE best) sat on his hole. Final straw for the lad. Watched his documentary on ITV4, contrary to public perception he seems a cracking lad with a good head on his shoulders. Feel for him.

This was a great post up to the final paragraph. Defoe hasn't made it because he's not good enough.

I know you said of 'his generation', but Defoe doesn't even come close to Shearer, Andy Cole, Fowler or Michael Owen - they're just the ones of the top of my head.

In recent years you've had Darren Bent, Grant Holt, Rickie Lambert and Wayne Rooney (regularly) outscoring Defoe.

Bodie Doyle

DubPerryman wrote: »

You're missing the context of the comment... maybe I didn't make myself clear. In the eyes of the conventional 'top 4' we did not deserve to be there. As in, we were just blow-ins and we'd blow back out again.

We're a stronger team now than the team Harry built.... yes, we all know we're not firing on all cylinders, but if AVB can get the front 4 or 5 clicking, everyone in the league will fear us and will know that we will be challenging in the foreseeable future for a number of titles.

How are we a stronger team now than the team Harry built? On paper yes. On transfer evaluations yes. On number of internationals in our team yes. On the pitch? Not so far this season. What is the point of having a large collection of good players if the manager cannot get them to play as a team?

As you say DubPerryman IF AVB can get the front 4 or 5 clicking we should be ok but its a huge IF at the moment. Ok we played well v Newcastle and should have won but in most of the other games we don't create chances, play a very slow ponderous type of football, safety first and basically are boring to watch. We have always been at our best when we attack teams with pace. Hopefully AVB will realise this and make the changes to our system.

GS11

The prob was, we only played well against Newcastle after going a goal down, why should it take that.

DubPerryman

Bodie Doyle wrote: »

How are we a stronger team now than the team Harry built? On paper yes. On transfer evaluations yes. On number of internationals in our team yes. On the pitch? Not so far this season. What is the point of having a large collection of good players if the manager cannot get them to play as a team?

As you say DubPerryman IF AVB can get the front 4 or 5 clicking we should be ok but its a huge IF at the moment. Ok we played well v Newcastle and should have won but in most of the other games we don't create chances, play a very slow ponderous type of football, safety first and basically are boring to watch. We have always been at our best when we attack teams with pace. Hopefully AVB will realise this and make the changes to our system.

We're stronger in every sense that you mentioned. On paper, in value, in international, in quality, in squad strength/depth - that's considerably stronger.

I'm pro-AVB but it's down to him to make the above strength count in our favour. This is where he will earn his money.

As I've said before, and I'll say again, I'm willing to give him until the end of the season before I decide whether he is the right or wrong man for the job. I'm behind him and the team until then.

On a slightly different note, over night AVB has gone from 11/1 to 10/11 to be the next PL manager sacked. I had a look for it on PP yesterday when I heard some suggestion of it on here..... anyone on here an influential bettor with Paddy Power??

Bodie Doyle

DubPerryman wrote: »

We're stronger in every sense that you mentioned. On paper, in value, in international, in quality, in squad strength/depth - that's considerably stronger.

Are we stronger now than under Harry?


Brad/gomes
Charlie -Daws-Ledders-BAE
Lennon-Sandro-Modric-Bale
VDV- Crouch/pav/defoe

Now

Lloris
Walker-Daws-Verts- Rose
Townsend-Sandro-Paulinho-Siggy-Eriksen
Soldado


Interesting?
I know which team played the more exciting football.

DubPerryman

Bodie Doyle wrote: »

Are we stronger now than under Harry?


Brad/gomes
Charlie -Daws-Ledders-BAE
Lennon-Sandro-Modric-Bale
VDV- Crouch/pav/defoe

Now

Lloris
Walker-Daws-Verts- Rose
Townsend-Sandro-Paulinho-Siggy-Eriksen
Soldado

Yes, significantly stronger....

Brad/Gomes - neither a match for Lloris, not by a long shot.

Charlie - ridiculously slow, turned like a bus.
Daws - wouldn't be in today's squad if everyone was fit. I'd pick Kaboul ahead of him.
King - I'm the biggest Ledley King fan on this forum, but in the last season his injury troubles were starting to show. I'd pick Verts ahead of him.
BAE - Could lose his concentration a lot. Same standard as Rose. That's why we still need new LB.


Lennon - has always lacked a final ball.
Sandro - Still a beast!
Modric - we haven't replaced.
Bale - irreplaceable.

VDV - luxury player, not consistent. Frequently out of position and frustrating. I think Eriksen will come good and make us forget VDV existed.

Crouch/Pav/Defoe - mid-table players. Soldado's goal record puts them all to shame.



One thing is for sure, AVB has improved our defence A LOT. That has been proven in our clean-sheet record this season.

I still have faith that he can get our attack going. I said at the start of the season that it will be after Christmas before we see the team gel. That's why I'm happy to give AVB until the end of the season.

Let's stop focussing on the past. Modric, Bale, VDV and Harry did not want to be at The Lane. Let's get behind the people who want to be here!

COYS!!

Bodie Doyle

DubPerryman wrote: »

Yes, significantly stronger....

Brad/Gomes - neither a match for Lloris, not by a long shot.

Charlie - ridiculously slow, turned like a bus.
Daws - wouldn't be in today's squad if everyone was fit. I'd pick Kaboul ahead of him.
King - I'm the biggest Ledley King fan on this forum, but in the last season his injury troubles were starting to show. I'd pick Verts ahead of him.
BAE - Could lose his concentration a lot. Same standard as Rose. That's why we still need new LB.


Lennon - has always lacked a final ball.
Sandro - Still a beast!
Modric - we haven't replaced.
Bale - irreplaceable.

VDV - luxury player, not consistent. Frequently out of position and frustrating. I think Eriksen will come good and make us forget VDV existed.

Crouch/Pav/Defoe - mid-table players. Soldado's goal record puts them all to shame.



One thing is for sure, AVB has improved our defence A LOT. That has been proven in our clean-sheet record this season.

I still have faith that he can get our attack going. I said at the start of the season that it will be after Christmas before we see the team gel. That's why I'm happy to give AVB until the end of the season.

Let's stop focussing on the past. Modric, Bale, VDV and Harry did not want to be at The Lane. Let's get behind the people who want to be here!

COYS!!

I don't mean to dwell on the past but had to bring to your attention the quality we had under the previous regime. Saying that we are now emphatically better is wishful thinking. Our players may have looked good purchases but are not performing. Do we have anyone the quality of Modric, VDV, King.

You point about VDV did make me laugh though- oh how i wish we had a luxury player like him these days. He is exactly what we are missing - a no 10, a link man.
BAE should be our LB at the moment only he fell out with AVB. We are still paying his wages.
Lennon will start most of our games from now on after AVB realises Townsend is not Bale and will play him on the correct wing.

And then there is your point about AVB improving our defence a lot.
6-0. No more to add really.

Saying all that the past is in the past and lets get behind the current team. I would love nothing more than for us to stuff man u this weekend.

DubPerryman

Bodie Doyle wrote: »

You point about VDV did make me laugh though- oh how i wish we had a luxury player like him these days. He is exactly what we are missing - a no 10, a link man.

I liked VDV a lot too. I was in awe when I saw his off-the-ball movement against Twente in our first CL match. Though, a lot of his performances were sub-standard, lazy and frustrating. Your memory is like a YouTube clip, pick out the good bits and forget the rest.

Yes, we need a number 10. Though we miss Modric far far more than we miss VDV.

Bodie Doyle wrote: »

And then there is your point about AVB improving our defence a lot.
6-0. No more to add really.

Seriously?

We've kept THIRTEEN clean sheets in 20 matches this season.... But you're going to pick out one performance and base your entire opinion of our defensive improvement solely on that?? Yikes. AVB has no hope.

wonderfullife

DubPerryman wrote: »

This was a great post up to the final paragraph. Defoe hasn't made it because he's not good enough.

I know you said of 'his generation', but Defoe doesn't even come close to Shearer, Andy Cole, Fowler or Michael Owen - they're just the ones of the top of my head.

In recent years you've had Darren Bent, Grant Holt, Rickie Lambert and Wayne Rooney (regularly) outscoring Defoe.

Football is a game of opinions obviously but personally i would define Cole, Fowler, Shearer as the generation before Defoe.

In terms of Bent, Holt, Lambert, Rooney......i'd have Defoe ahead of all of them any day of the week in terms of natural finishing. But that's (again) only an opinion. If my life depended on a striker scoring from 8 yards out with an instinctive quick finish, i'd have Defoe in to try save my bacon.

Hatch99

wonderfullife wrote: »

Football is a game of opinions obviously but personally i would define Cole, Fowler, Shearer as the generation before Defoe.

In terms of Bent, Holt, Lambert, Rooney......i'd have Defoe ahead of all of them any day of the week in terms of natural finishing. But that's (again) only an opinion. If my life depended on a striker scoring from 8 yards out with an instinctive quick finish, i'd have Defoe in to try save my bacon.

You'd have to give him 4 attempts though

jobeenfitz

wonderfullife wrote: »

Football is a game of opinions obviously but personally i would define Cole, Fowler, Shearer as the generation before Defoe.

In terms of Bent, Holt, Lambert, Rooney......i'd have Defoe ahead of all of them any day of the week in terms of natural finishing. But that's (again) only an opinion. If my life depended on a striker scoring from 8 yards out with an instinctive quick finish, i'd have Defoe in to try save my bacon.

Defoe ahead of Rooney, even with his stroppiness he's light years ahead of Defoe. Me thinks your having a big fat laugh there?

davycc

Hatch99 wrote: »

You'd have to give him 4 attempts though

and each attempt he would lash straight down the keepers throath full force and be saved:(.....FULL POWER = NO FINNESSE... as much as i love the chap:cool:

mushykeogh

On a lighter note, I thought this was quite funny http://podcast.playbackmedia.co.uk/spurs.xml

Leinstersqspur

I know it's over and done with now but the lads looked far from sharp at kick off, half them tying their laces / fixing their socks. Great pressure from City.

oppiuy

I dont think Defoes and natural finisher. He only ever smacks the ball as hard as he can, usually straight at the keeper as a result.

He's been great for us over the years but i think its time to part ways